we see a quick v-shaped recovery. >> the most we can hope for i think out of d.c. is a pumping of the brakes and slowing down action on u.s.-china escalation. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: for our audience worldwide, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ." we are live on bloomberg tv and radio. alongside tom keene, i'm jonathan ferro, together with lisa abramowicz. extraordinary throughout cities overnight, and that is still the top story this morning. tom: no question about it. last night was like nothing i've ever seen before. there were knows, people moving down to macy's come alluding as well -- to

macy's, looting as well. tension across the city, no question about it. you opened correctly, which is this is not just about new york. it is not just about washington. it is about cities across the nation, the horrific events in buffalo and those tragic deaths in chicago as well. jonathan: for programs like this where we have to cover the markets, you have to stress to the size that this equity market just feels totally removed from the mood of this country right now. we talked about yesterday, and no doubt through this morning as well. tom: i am not going to mince words. i've witnessed this before i was born with my grandparents. one set of grandparents completely removed from the depression, worried about the stock market. the other set of grandparents going, what are you, nuts? it is true futures are up. it is truly risk on. i would note brent crude get a

near a $40 per barrel print. jonathan: a weaker dollar in the mix as well. lisa, we heard from the president yesterday evening. a lot of people looking to your from them again at some point later today. lisa: the big question is whether he's going to make good on his threat to bring in military troops to some of the biggest cities in order to quell the violence. we will be hearing from him at 11:20 a.m., when he visits the national shrine. we are expecting some sort of comments. also what i am looking at today, the dueling nature of this market. we will be getting u.s. auto sales for the month of may. a question of how quickly people are going out and buying cars. later today, former vice president and presidential candidate joe biden will be delivering a speech on civil unrest. at a time of raising children, of trying to conduct normal life, this is extraordinary times. a lot of people losing sleep. a lot of people hoping somebody can bring this nation together. jonathan: nothing normal about

the last couple of months. the president addressing the country yesterday evening as the protesters dispersed and tear gas descended on the perimeters of the white house. this is what the president had to say. pres. trump: if a city or state refuses to take the actions necessary to defend the life and property of their residence, then i will deploy the united states military and quickly solve the problem for them. of then: the president united states addressing the people of america from the nation's capital yesterday evening. joining us from washington, kevin cirilli, chief washington correspondent. a speech about law & order. can we inspect the same today? kevin: yes, and in fact, president trump and his allies are saying his reelection campaign is really going to be hammering home this issue of law & order. this was an issue the president campaigned on back in 2016.

publicly, the reelection campaign is going to be focusing on law & order, but privately, behind-the-scenes, i am told by a source on the reelection campaign that there is open discomfort with how president trump has chosen to communicate during this national crisis. meanwhile, republicans on capitol hill also increasingly speaking out in their uncomfortable. -- in their uncomfort level. behindune, the senator mitch mcconnell, sand he hopes the president will adopt a different tone. in the capital, a curfew went into effect last night at 7:00 p.m. eastern. effect set to go into again this evening. democrats, including former vice president joe biden, he will be making a speech later this morning on racial unrest in the city of philadelphia. mind you, that is the same city that about a decade ago, then

candidate barack obama delivered an address on racial inequality as well. twice the, i watched video of the president off to the side street of st. john's church. what was the symbolism to his core audience of the way the president held up the bible? kevin: law & order, as well as a to a large portion of americans who welcomed that imagery. to others, it was a stark contrast. i think it is a perfect illustration and encapsulates an incredibly politically polarized time, how one image can have such radically different interpretations. the bottom line is that the police presence and the national guard presence of washington,

d.c., you mentioned this as something you hadn't seen in decades. the only other comparison to make here is from the 19 60's. even anecdotally speaking in washington, d.c., this is something that this town has never seen since the 1960's. law on use ofom: the army does back to 1867 and rutherford b hayes. you can fact-check me on that, folks. can the president use that law to put army troops in new york, in buffalo, and chicago? kevin: the president suggested yesterday that is something he is going to be considering. yesterday, the president also had a phone call with his attorney general william barr, as well as attorneys general and governors from around the country. he chastised them in order to be more tough in terms of stopping

some of the violence and the looting. this is something that gets back to the issue of law & order that the president campaigned on in 2016, and we will hear more and hours todays come. i just want to make one more quick point. as much as this is a national issue, it is also an increasingly local issue as well. towns and communities across the country are going to be having conversations this morning and into the next day and week ahead in terms of how their mayors and local officials handle this. so i think you are starting to see that in new york city. you are definitely seeing it here in washington, d.c., as well as all throughout the country. withnities are grappling how their elected officials are handling this situation. lisa: we are hearing those

conversations on going, and i can only imagine they will heat up. what are we hearing from some of the top leadership in the senate, in the house with respect to what they hope to see from the president, and who has his ear right now? kevin: in terms of who has his ear, it is increasingly william barr, the attorney general, as well as to a lesser extent, but in terms of direct communication, but in terms of channeling the discussion, senate majority leader mitch mcconnell's's speaking -- senate leader mitch mcconnell. in speaking with staffers, this republicansong is becoming increasingly common. it was a restless night in america, to put it candidly. but in terms of action, in terms of where the policy is really going to be impacted here, we have spoken for weeks on this program about the next

round of economic stimulus. i was speaking with strategists as well as lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, and i am hard-pressed to find one person who would argue that the next round of economic stimulus is not going to include some type of criminal justice, civil rights, civil justice reform language. it is going to be increasingly impossible for that not to be wrapped into these next round of negotiations, but what i am trying to find out is when that timeline is going to be, and precisely what that language will entail. the naacp has put out some language in terms of crafting ,ome of that policy, but again unfortunately right now, it is too premature for me to articulate what would be in that type of congressional vehicle. jonathan: great to catch up with you, as always. stay safe. kevin downing washington, d.c. i think -- kevin down in washington, d.c.

i think kevin touches on a good point. we want to see washington have the urgency it had two months ago because the collective will over the last couple of weeks has really started to fade. tom: i will let you pick the date. you can go back to may 29 or may 28, whatever, and it is a different america. dovetailing with this is the unemployment report -- the jobs report, rather, with even 21% modeled unemployment that we may see on friday. i think the two of them together really dovetail into a new urgency in washington. jonathan: couldn't agree more with you. i think that is the issue for us this coming friday, the social unrest gather with the labor market and unemployment rate that is set to be at 20%, potentially near double figures even as we close out 2020. lisa: and much higher for black and latino communities, which are disproportionately and some of these cities seeing unrest.

i do have to wonder, we see stocks yet again shrugging off the unrest. i was looking this morning, the 25 top metropolitan areas in the united states account for half of the nation's gdp. at a certain point, i wonder how much people are factoring this into their equation going forward, paired with the idea that we are not seeing the urgency from washington, d.c. when it comes to adding to the fiscal stimulus, and particularly assistance to state and local government. arethan: on aggregate, they not right now, with the s&p up 0.5%. kevin touched on how different cities deal with this. were you surprised that new york city would with an 11:00 p.m. curfew, when other cities went with 7:00, 8:00? tom: i was surprised, but i am not informed as to when you set up a proper curfew. .ur house was surprised 11:00 p.m. seemed a lot later. and of course, we get an earlier

curfew tonight. it was remarkable to see on twitter the feed of the new york police department scanner and the tension that you heard in those many voices of this new york city. jonathan:jonathan: we will cover that tension through the morning right here on "bloomberg surveillance." good morning to you all. alongside tom keene, i'm jonathan ferro, together with lisa abramowicz. markets seemingly detached from what we are seeing across america at the moment. we will talk about that next with silk, really -- with phil camporeale of jp morgan. ritika: the president has called on governors and mayors to "dominate the streets." --is sending thousands of hal p thousands of heavily armed military personnel into d.c. after nights of unrest. churched to st. john's

with tear gas in the air, used to clear out protesters. in new york, looters broke into macy's flagship store. a number of other stores were also hit. there's been a combination of violence for peaceful -- violence and peaceful protests for about a week. in the u.k., prime minister boris johnson plans to reset his government agenda. he will make a major speech at the end of june to prepare the country for the new reality after the coronavirus pandemic. meanwhile, chancellor of the exchequer rishi sunak is throwing up options to bolster the economy. there could be an extra tax on sectors that have profited during the pandemic, such as tech companies. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on quicktake by bloomberg, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries.

i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> we have seen most clearly in recent weeks the double standard that is around.

the riots in the united states we see, and how governments reacted. in hong kong, when we had similar riots, we see what position they adopted then. jonathan: hong kong governor carrie lam not missing the opportunity to have her say on the tension across america in the last week. in the markets, not much tension to speak of whatsoever. here's your price action. equities advanced by 15 points on the s&p 500, higher by 0.5% this tuesday morning. outside of that, seeing a steeper curve come through in the last week or so. a single basisp points, at 0.67%. the dollar weaker for a fourth straight session. euro-dollar advancing, up a couple of tenths of 1%. in ecb decision just a couple of days away. tom: for our global wall street audience, let's focus on

deutsche bank, looking for a $1.15 euro. that is three or four big figures, a substantial move. how does the ecb react to a stronger euro? jonathan: there's talk of doing a bigger qe plan, but i am not sure a stronger euro is on the plan just yet. i think there is worry we haven't done enough on the fiscal side, and the pressure is on monetary policy once more. later in the month, we want to see governments in europe get their act together, and come to an agreement on the way to move forward. it: there's a nice look at as we get to june and july. we like to have on multi-asset strategists. they are particularly good if they write short essays. phil camporeale of jp morgan wrote a jewel four years ago destroying the certitude of the 60-40 asset allocation.

it was an extraordinary essay at the time, showing that the canon theory, if you will, sometimes it doesn't work. he joins us for an update. what is working right now? phil: good morning. good to be here with you. there's a ton of noise. this has been an exhausting and emotional roller coaster. just think about how we moved from 40 million in initial jobless claims over the past few months, and 25% of all trading days this year, the market has moved by at least 3%. that is staggering. that's noise, though. i think the signals are a couple of the fund metals we are looking at. china's pmi over 50. 50.german over u.s. pmi was up in may versus

april. and mortgage applications, youth think about how important consumer sentiment in the housing market is, mortgage applications have gone up for six consecutive weeks. but the thing is that technicals continue to dominate. things don't move by 35% as everyone is fully invested. folks are sitting on $5 trillion of money market funds. just $3 trillion the same time last year. the fed has cut the table. this is amazing, and what is so important is that i am part of that $5 trillion of cash. it's a good feeling, jon. jonathan: except yours is not going anywhere anytime soon, i'm sure. let's talk about that $5 trillion in money market funds. that has had to park before the drawdown? islip: i'm sorry, i think it

more retail, to tell you the truth. if you look at when that started to really rise, it was at the same time we were seeing retail run for the hills. if you think about what institutions do, institutions are far less emotional. i think a lot of that is retail. that is what makes this pain trade so staggering. lowered stocks are not the pain trade here. it is higher stocks. if you thought that last cycle equity market was the most hated rally, look at what we have seen over the last 45 trading days. people do not want to see this. i think what the fed did on march 23, if march 23 end up being the bottom, people remember march 23 like they will remember march 9 of 2009. the fed said they will come in and buy corporate bonds. that will go down as one of the most effective and creative

monetary policy instruments in history. i don't think that is hyperbole. what investors missed in this rally is because of the pandemic and humanitarian crisis, that gave policymakers air cover to deliver shock and all. look at what the european commission announced last week, that they can borrow on behalf of the european union. they are having a moment in europe right now. this is all part of what is a staggering monetary policy response and fiscal policy response that means you can't be underweight equities here. we were underweight in march. don't think you can be overweight either because of all being uncertainty, but underweight em, underweight the u.s., that is very costly right now. i think the tails have been cut. lisa: if the retail investor is putting cash in the bank, if companies are putting cash in the bank, if you have private

equity firms sitting on record amounts of dry powder, who is buying and benefiting from the stock rally? philip: that's a good question. i think this has a lot to do with nonhuman beings, actually. we estimate roughly 50% of public equities trading is done through computerized trading activity. gappingu see the vix like it did the week of march 16, when it was over 100, that is a forced seller of s&p five 500 futuresf s&p contracts. credittopped widening, stop contracting. that brings in those same computers that were selling the mid-march, now buying the market. i think that has been a flow that has been underestimated by

a lot of investors. it is just the nonhuman being aspect of this market. camporeale of jp morgan, always good to catch up with you. that four-minute conversation explains, goes some way to explaining why we have a market that is so detached from what we see on the screens, dominating the news flow over the last couple of days. tom: i've seen this before. i talked about this yesterday. i got a lot of mail on it, with people curious about why that is. it is a separate market. let us be clear, economics and investment is the province of the elite. what we are seeing now in america is not about the elite. it is about a broad cross-section of america removed from these markets. kostin ofdavid goldman sachs will be weighing in on that on this program a little bit later. next up, we will be catching up with lewis alexander of nomura

on the labor market and the tension in the united states of america. from new york, good morning. thety futures positive on s&p 500. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ from new york city, this is "bloomberg surveillance ." we are live on bloomberg tv and radio. alongside tom keene, i'm jonathan ferro, together with lisa abramowicz. in the equity market, we shake off the tension, with equity futures positive 14 points on the s&p 500. we advanced 0.5%. in the bond market, talked about that steeper curve in the bond market. ,p a basis point on tends unchanged on twos. we will try and build on this a little bit later, the dollar weaker for a fourth straight session, up 0.2%. that's the price action. in the bond market, what got a lot of attention over the last 24 hours, amazon making a comeback to the corporate debt market, and the three year paper got everyone's attention.

record low borrowing cost. 0.4 percent on three your paper for amazon. -- on three year paper for amazon. tom: i saw you tweak that out articlening, the "ft" that summarized that. what is amazing is the tranches that they get out, they had an almost record eight-year tra nche. it was the same yield is the italian republic. jonathan: what is interesting is what the money will be used for. amazon is saying it is for general corporate cash purposes, but the last time they borrowed money in the corporate debt markets, they made an acquisition. it was whole foods. think a lot of people thinking about a similar story this morning. the company says one thing, but there is plenty of speculation out there, tom. it is thever it is, strength and might of technology.

what we will do now is drive forward to the jobs report. there's no one better to do that with then lewis alexander of nomura. he has an esteemed career out of yale, out of stanford, and in market economics. i've got to give you a victory i amn an essay you wrote going to guess a decade ago, may be coming out of your public service under secretary geithner , where you talked about technology of the haves and the have-nots. you absolutely nailed it then, dr. alexander, and now we have the likes of amazon borrowing its full facing credit yields. do you and visualize these technology giants advancing over the coming years and decades to ever bigger, evermore dominant? lewis: i think one of the questions of the economy over the last 10 years has really been why hasn't productivity howth been stronger, given

important and pervasive tech has been. we are going through a real-time experiment of what we can really thinkh technology, and i we are going to be positively surprised. in many ways, i do think this is an opportunity for that. , think the question really is is the right industrial structure for that a small number of large firms, or do you want to see more competition? that is going to be the policy debate around tech going forward. jonathan: we try to understand how these comedies will right side themselves in the coming months. how does it shape growth? lewis: i think it makes all the sins and the world for companies to shore up their liquidity, and capital markets are open. so i think it makes perfect sense for them to take advantage of that. obviously, you are going to have some companies that are going to

face losses over the near-term that are very large relative to their existing equity base. you think about the auto rental companies, the airlines. they are facing fundamental challenges, and that is going to be a different kettle of fish, but for most corporations who are going to be able to ride this out, it makes all the sins in the world for them to be borrowing. jonathan: you said that this --lisa: you said that this market is open for good borrowers, and the bifurcation has never been greater, whether it is a good corporate borrower or consumer borrower. we are seeing that bleed out in the economic numbers from the job reports we are expecting this week. can the u.s. economy maintain some kind of growth trajectory with that divergence intact? lewis: one of the things which is different about this shock from others is how concentrated it is by sector.

those parts of the economy that depend on social contact, the most obvious ones being ,estaurants and entertainment are being devastated by this. other parts of the economy that are much less dependent on that and can adapt to working from home on all of those things are obviously doing much better. it is very unusual to have a shock like this that has that disparity, so it really starts with that. i think as we come out of this, as we back away from the most extreme version of social distancing, as we learn how to do this without generating the same kind of exposure, i think you will see those disparities start to diminish. but they are going to be with us for a long time. i think the real problem is the jobs available for people who have done that stuff that depend on social distancing, they are going to be depressed for a while. thethan: the u.s. --lisa: u.s. budget office came out with

a projection saying it may take a decade for the u.s. economy to recover from the shocks we just saw. what does that mean in terms of the unemployment rate going forward on a sustainable basis over the next five years? lewis: i think the experience we had before covid-19, which suggested we could get the unemployment rate down to very low levels without having those sorts of problems with inflation we have had in the past, i think that is relevant experience for where we should try and get in the long run. but we haven't seen unemployment at these levels since the great depression. great recession a decade ago, the unemployment rate got to 8%, and it took us eight or nine years to get it down below 4%. it is over 15% now. it is going higher before this is over. yes, it is going to take a long time for us to get back. i am not sure it is going to take as long as it did following the last big recession, but it

is going to take a long time. thethan: this is the issue, number one issue, and lisa raises exactly the right question on unemployment. you and i have been talking about this over the last several months or so. we could approach 20%. we could have real improvement in the back half of this year, but we could still into the year in double figures, and that should be -- we could still end the year in double figures, and that should be on acceptable to everyone. tom: and what is so important about that observation is what it does to inequality. we don't need to go on a tuesday into the coefficient and all of the dynamics of inequality, but has it ever been wider? lewis: you would have to go back a long time. we've never had a shock that is more disparate. one of the things i will note to un-employment the

report friday, we are expecting average hourly earnings to go up 1.3% on a month where we lose over 5 million jobs. how do you make sense of that? the way you make sense of that is the jobs we are losing our low-wage jobs, and that disparity between what happens with average hourly earnings and the headline unemployment is a direct reflection of the inequality effects of this. i do think that is an aspect of this which we can't get away from. it is going to affect the politics of this. in some ways, these are trends that have been out there for a long time. they are not really new. but it is very much going to sort of highlight those problems, and i think it is going to be an important part of the election. policyat is the social that begins to nudge us away from this abrupt inequality? the tradition of yale academics is robert schiller and james tobin and others, where there was an advocacy for social

policy. this is america that is not doing so well on social policy right now. begins the best case to to take us from our inequalities? lewis: i think you have to try and address the underlying causes and start from the beginning. a lot of that is about education. it is about access to social services. one of the things that is very striking about this is the incidence of mortality around covid-19 as related to other conditions, which are related to economic status and your access to health care. i think there are some very basic things you can do, starting with health care, but also ultimately coming back to education and giving people the skills not only to have higher wage jobs, but to have jobs that can be done remotely. one of the big disparities again is who has the jobs that we can do work from home.

that is, and some sense, very much related to those same inequalities in education that are the things we have to start to address. alexander, always great to get your thoughts. lisa, just to pick up on what you are saying about the and limit rate, it is worth repeating, this pandemic -- the unemployment rate, it is worth repeating come of this pandemic has not been the great equalizer. we are set to see in the numbers once again this coming friday. jonathan: i quebec to but --lisa: i go back to what fed chair jay powell said, that 40% lessose earning $40,000 or have been laid off. it is not a coincidence, the unrest we are seeing. there is a question as to how quickly it can come back online. we are seeing a very bifurcated market, with the large tech

behemoths gaining. how do we recover from that? jonathan: the other big question we have got to lean on continually, we have been beating this drum so hard, the focus seems to be on sequential near-term improvement, going from lockdown to reopening. you've got to think a lot more about the limits of that recovery, the actual limits. how long will we be in double figures for unemployment? it could be a whole lot longer than some people realize. tom: we are going to need to get some glide path here. i think of the work coming out of the financial crisis, where you need to get three or four months or even quarters of data to get the glide path to where that level gets back to. there's a real mystery about that. some people say that new level may be set lower than what we knew valentine's day of not too long ago. jonathan: looking ahead to an ugly payrolls import this

friday. we will talk about record low borrowing cost on three-year notes for amazon. up next, we will get some perspective from bloomberg intelligence. from new york, good morning. with equity futures positive, i'mgside tom keene, jonathan ferro, together with lisa abramovitz. with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. president trump has made it clear he is running out of patience over several days of protests. the president calling on governors and mayors to "dominate the streets," and if they don't do the job, he is threatening to deploy the u.s. military. after speaking at the white house, the president walked across the street to st. john's church, which had minor fire damage. was used totear clear away protesters. carrie lam accusing

the u.s. of double standards, pointing out that the administration vocally supported the sometimes violent demonstrations in hong kong. the government is facing renewed antigovernment protests aimed at china's plan to impose national security legislation over the city. a government watchdog warns that is letting hundreds of thousands of high income individuals duck their tax obligations. that cost the government more than $45 billion in taxes. budget cuts have forced the irs to scale back enforcement. france says it's recession will be worse than expected. finance minister bruno le maire says the economy will shrink 10% this year, and that means they must continue with pro-business reform and no tax hikes that could choke both. growth --ld choke that could choke growth. global news 24 hours a day, on

air and on quicktake by bloomberg, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> a society that does not put equity and inclusion at the center of it is certainly going to eventually come to the place where we are at. this is a moment of inflection.

it is a moment of real change. it is a moment that those folks out there demanding this are not going to take a commission or a report. they are going to want fundamental change. a tense moment in the united states of america. don't see much tension in this market. we have repeated that through the last two days. , 15ty futures grind higher points on the s&p 500, 0.5%. your 10 year treasury a little higher, up a basis point at 0.67%. that is your 10 year yield. the euro advancing. your outperformance on both ethics and equity. i'm jonathan ferro, together with lisa abramovitz. if you lived under a rock and all you had was a live feed of the s&p 500, you would not have a clue what is going on in the

world right now. tom: that's true. the equity market is really removed. i want to point out that in chicago, a very difficult night. governor pritzker challenged in chicagoline of "the tribune" as he battles president trump. the markets have been extraordinary. you look at the s&p percentage change and then look at the dow jones industrial average and see what that change is, usually the nasdaq 100 is the ever so higher. that is because of the huge concentration of the tech stocks that are out there right now. anert schiffman is not expert on the equity part of this. he's an expert on the credit markets. that means amazon and their

historic offering of yesterday. he is with bloomberg intelligence. robert, what is so absolutely unique here is that these are near trillion dollar equity blocks, with itty-bitty pieces of debt that they basically get for nothing. what does that do to their weighted cost of capital? robert: good morning, tom and jon. thank you for having me. i like to tell my wife that i am an expert in anything, so i can talk about anything from the financial side of these companies. this is a case of the rich get richer. borrowing costs are next to nothing. the way their average cost of capital for amazon is pretty close to zero. you've got to remember, when you're doing the math, when the equity weight is near 90% and you are only borrowing 10 year money at 1.5 percent, on a one

year basis, that gets you to 0.1% on a weighted average cost. so it is effectively free money, and that is the main reason why you are seeing things like amazon and apple in the market right now. jonathan: what are they borrowing the money for? what are they doing with it? robert: that's a great question. we have asked those questions. if you take apple as an example, apple has almost $2 billion of cash, and the just borrowed $8 billion of debt. right now, i think they are doing nothing with it. they are sitting on it. near $50ot cash billion. the generate, depending on leasing businesses, close to $20 billion of free cash flow every year. they have doubled their cash and theysince 2016, could easily double those cash balances in the next couple of

years. even when you are spending incrementally more money to help which depends primarily on a bigger workforce, a few years ago they bought a grocery business that no one ever thought they would get into. hopefully it has created a real distribution area for them. maybe they do more retail. perhaps they do more transport. even the self-driving car business to help for deliveries over time. lisa: there's so much that amazon could do at this point, emblematically are with respect to borrowing. is this all just going to the bank and sitting there in deposits, giving the biggest

companies the biggest war chest to withstand this crisis more profitable than ever? robert: in the near term, the answer is yes. two years ago, when repatriation tax changes were made, we plus of$1 trillion capital back to the u.s.. most of that was used for buybacks. we saw massive returns of capital, particularly across the tech space, and effectively no debt issuance in 2017 of that. there is still the capacity for companies to buy back a , and we aref stock still sitting on a ton of cash, but where rates and spreads are , the cost is not borrowing and putting it in the bank. the reality for something like amazon, with everything they might buy, i don't think they

are buying anything right now. there's still antitrust reviews. the potential for large-scale him across the tech space -- large-scale m&a across the tech space is very low. that future use might simply be for buybacks, or we talked about amazon potentially initiating a dividend in the next couple of years because they have an excess cash problem. companies think these are per merrily banking this money and they will figure out what to do is hit later because it doesn't cost them anything. robert schiffman of bloomberg intelligence, thank you for your time today. for me, it is the difference between issuing very short-term debt at 20 basis points wider than the treasury. that is ok if you are printing cash like a big tech firm is now. where i take issue with this is

further out on the curve for some of these issuers. if you are issuing 10, 15, 30 year debt, and you are a tech company, can you tell me what that world looks like? i don't think anybody can. tom: you are totally right, particularly for product specific companies. product cycles can be brutal, even for the best. i really take your point. i think that is true. but still, what is extraordinary to me is we are equity guys. i think of mario cavalli, who says, wait, just give me more share buybacks to add to total return. jonathan: i don't think jeff bezos listens to wall street and the way that other c-suite executives do. alongside tom keene, i'm jonathan ferro, together with lisa abramowicz. quite a moment in the united states of america. more coverage still to come. we will be catching up with ian bremmer of the eurasia group in

the next hour. in the equity market, that is the story. in the bond market, the curve just a little bit steeper. we are up by a sickle basis point on the 10 year in america. we are live on bloomberg tv and bloomberg radio. ♪ bloomberg radio. ♪

pres. trump: if a city or state refuses to take the actions necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, i will deploy the united states military. >> this is a moment of inflection. it is a moment of real change. it is a moment that those folks out there demanding this are not going to take commission or report. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, and lisa abramowicz. tom: good morning, everyone. this is "bloomberg surveillance ." across this nation, america

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