tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg June 29, 2020 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT
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instagram. shares of facebook plunging on friday. the stocks opening up dismally today but then leveling out and ended the day up 2%. discuss, earlyto facebook investor and elevation orders co-founder, and also the ."thor of the book, "zucked this seems different. i don't recall any time that so many major brands all at once joined a boycott against facebook on the grounds of civil rights. would you say this is different as well? >> definitely. is part andthis parcel. think about how different the world is today from three months ago. first, the pandemic, then the economic decline that went with it, then since the murder of
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george floyd, we have an awakening on issues of racism and civil rights that i believe have affected every part of the american economy and our society. emily: so, why now? abigail: again, --roger: again, i think if you think about this from the perspective of an investor or advertiser, facebook gave the ability for the advertiser to reach audiences with a level of precision never previously available. from an investment point of view, it provided fantastic returns. cost.was always a the 2016 election in the united states, the brexit referendum in the united kingdom, were a wake-up call that the platform could be misused. undermining democracy was a conversation we had with you on the show. analytica,cambridge
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the scandal about privacy, than issues of white supremacy became much more pronounced into 2020. all of a sudden, you layer onto this the pandemic of economic decline, then the murder of george floyd. suddenly, the country is rethinking its priorities and there is a very real chance that we will value things differently past,forward than in the less focused on maximizing shareholder value and more focused on having an equitable distribution in the economy. i do believe that what is going areere is advertisers responding to their customers. customers are genuinely worried about the role that facebook and other platforms have played in amplifying hate. the result is this campaign has gained traction in barely more
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than a week to the point that i believe it is 130 or more major advertisers have committed to joining the campaign. --p declined emily: just in the last few minutes, chipotle joined the campaign. unilever came out on friday and said they joined the campaign. behemoth, thech a response is that it is not going to make a serious dent in advertising revenue, but at this point, do you think this will make a serious dent and how big? has literallyk millions of individual advertisers. even the largest ones are substantially less than 1%. it is unrealistic in the short run to expect an impact on revenue earnings.
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a $55.8 billion decline in market value, that is equal to the entire market value of twitter combined with snap. that is what facebook lost in one day. it has bounced a little bit today but very little. to me, this is really about starting a conversation, engaging with what is the proper role of a corporation in national discourse? should it the ok for a corporation to undermine ?emocracy should it be ok to amplify eight, amplify white supremacy or conspiracy theories for profit? people three months ago, thought, what is the harm? today, you can really see the harm in the covid 19 pandemic, the murder of george floyd, people are reassessing all of that. i don't know how that will turn
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out that i think investors have to be part of that conversation. they have to ask themselves, what kind of a world i want to live? and what are the consequences of making a little more money on facebook relative to the costs to society? emily: we did speak with nick clegg, the vice president of global affairs, earlier on bloomberg television, and he did answer this question about whether facebook is profiting off of hate. nick: let me be clear, we do not profit from hate. we have no incentive to have hate on our platform. we don't like it. our users don't like it. we know this from surveys that have been conducted with users. they don't like to see hateful inflammatory content on their newsfeed. have made advertisers quite clear that they don't like it either.
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everybody is against hate. it is, what do you do about it? emily: on top of that, you had mark zuckerberg on friday announcing new initiatives at facebook to funnel people to their voter information center. the definitioned of hate in advertising. what do you make of this response here? clegg let me take nick first. what he said was patently ridiculous. he said in a conversation over the weekend that facebook -- it is true that the audience of facebook, the the model of facebook is about grabbing and manipulating our attention. the most powerful tool they have
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to do that is to provoke our attention -- provoke our emotion. it turns out that hate speech, disinformation, and conspiracy theories are three of the most ofuable types of content facebook's business model. on top of that, they have a recommendation that encourages people to join facebook groups on various topics. their own studies have shown that 64% of the time people join an extremist network, they do it because of a recommendation by facebook. the nick clegg thing is silly. we should not treat that as a serious response. when mark is talking about elections, he is trying to change the subject. it is not at all obvious that facebook can be a constructive force. there is no question that they can manipulate both emotions. i think we have to question their judgment. they have shown time and again a
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willingness to side with one political party and one political candidate as opposed to siding with democracy and fairness. that is not correct. 15 yeard not allow the apology tour that mark zuckerberg has been on since facebook started to continue. we have to demand better. asking them to fix themselves i think is unrealistic. this is going to require regulation in four areas. safety. we will have to make changes to section 230 of the munication's act. we will have to have -- of the communications act. we will have to have something like the fda that improves a product before it comes to market. -- that approves a product before it comes to market. we left look at privacy, have to
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use antitrust. there are all of these initiatives that we have to do. and we have to do them all. one large is all problem. these companies are so important to our economy that we have to find a way for them to coexist with our society where we get what is great about them without having to suffer the consequences. emily: there are a number of large companies that have not said they are going to pull their ads from facebook. walmart is one of them. procter & gamble and gm said they are renewing it but have not taken a stand either way. if they do not take a stand, does that mean they stand for hate? does that impact their brand? roger: absolutely. this is a moment in time when the united states of america is reassessing its values.
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corporations that are listening to customers are joining this campaign. i think we have to give people time. this is happening very rapidly. the skills that served executives so well for the last 40 years are suddenly not very helpful. , procter &spective gamble, general motors, and others, if they need to have conversations, that is fine. but we do need to come together. i think there is a great opportunity for everyone watching the show to go to stophateforprofit.org. sign up and express your point of view. that hate for profit is not suitable in the united states in 2020. we can do better. facebook can beat the
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great company that it can be without amplifying eight, misinformation, and conspiracy theories. there is just no place for that anymore. hearing from our sources that facebook is planning a roundtable with advertisers tomorrow. do you think that this is the moment that we could see zuck dramatically change his stance or reverse his stance? roger: it is possible. i would hope that is true. facebook --years, the burden of proof is on them to demonstrate that this is different. theunderlying issue, amplification of hate, disinformation, conspiracy theories. until they make the changes in the algorithms to prevent that
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stuff from spreading, it is just talk. until they get rid of the recommendation engines that drive people towards extremism, it is just talk. at this point, we just can't take them seriously. we will get that bored and move on, we will forget this issue. that has worked incredibly well for them. make sure thiso is -- emily: speaking about the broader environment -- as we have been talking, we have got some news on china and hong kong. wilbur ross has announced that hong kong's special status will be revoked. china has been taking steps to curtail hong kong independent. trumpve got president
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criticizing these moves. at the same time, he is facing health, economic, and social crisis in his own country and there is a fair bit of irony there. talk about the broader picture and how you see this playing out given that not only are we still fighting covid-19, you have cases surging across the country, tens of millions laid off, now a reckoning over social justice in this country. investor, i stick to the things that i really understand. a few things stand out. an enormous amount of our growth over the past 30 years has come from globalization. from doing trade around the world. from converting companies that used to be rivals or enemies into business partners. china is first and foremost among that. under president trump, we have
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moved back towards a nationalist approach away from the multilateral international relationships. if you overlay the covid-19 pandemic, our response has been so horrible. even though we are only 5% of the world population. countries may not be willing to let us visit them, may not be willing to have us have enough trade. the same time, president trump is trying to get reelected and we now have two pieces of news in the last week first that he was willing to do essentially whatever china wanted whether it was related to civil rights repression of the uighurs, related to hong kong. then we have the story in
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russian -- of russians in afghanistan paying bounties to kill american soldiers and apparently knew about and did nothing about. citizens in this horrible position where the president of the united states is operating in a way where as far as i know no president has operated before and i don't know how we get through this. i don't know what that looks like. to me, it is deeply troubling. as an investor, it makes me very cautious. coming into the worst days of the first wave of the pandemic, and it is only june. emily: it is scary. maybe we are seeing that reckoning happening now. we could go on for hours. always love getting your thoughts on the show. thank you so much for stopping
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sausage was already sold at many locations. we are joined by the company's cfo, david lee. i just want to start with, overall, what are you seeing in the supply chain as the virus researches around the world -- re-surges around the world. has that impacted any availability issues on your end? david: we have the benefit of bypassing so much of the supply chain that viewers are reading about being challenged. we don't grow animals, transport them, or slaughter them. we don't process them in environments like implants, where the animal industry is really struggling. ofreally have the benefit skipping the animal altogether. but we have seen is no disruption to date in our supply chain and a very large increase
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in demand both consumer, retail, servicesurgence in food restaurant partners. this newlk to us about product, what it means in terms of your meeting that new demand in terms of these trends and new concern among your customers. david: impossible sausage, made from plants, is really our first new product platform since we launched the impossible burger. for it to be available nationwide, as well as with two great partners, starbucks, at nearly 15,000-plus locations in the u.s., and as well burger king as the impossible sandwich, is a testament that meat eaters are ready for products that are not as challenging for products for the environment or their health.
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best comfort food diners across the united states to prove that this product, the impossible sausage is for everybody. --emily:meemily: companies like starbucks, taking a stand, talk to us about how you are thinking about that as a brand, addressing this current social crisis at such a critical ?ime david: we have always relied largely on earned media and word-of-mouth. the authentic advocacy of super fans. we really have not experimented much at all with any form of paid advertising including what you are talking about. we are looking to build our
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brand and maximize the impact of our investors money by doing it with advocacy at a low cost but our biggestome of customers like starbucks by trying to send a message about hate speech by pulling their social media spend. emily: we will watch to see how you continue to address this. david lee, thank you so much for joining us. speaking about the facebook story, my colleague, caroline hyde, spoke earlier to nucleic, device -- two nick cl egg, vice president for global affairs at facebook. nick: with success comes sponsor ability and accountability. i think it is right that facebook -- we provide the platform on which so much societal and political debate now plays out. that was especially true in the
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highly polarized and fraught environment on which many of these debates are now playing out in the united states in an election year. emotions are running very, very high, rightly, in the united states come after the killing of george floyd. of course, we are constantly scouring our platforms to make sure there is legitimate look debate. yes, that people say things that may be others don't want to hear. we believe in free expression. but we do that within certain limits. we seek to make sure that those limits are safeguarded. i am certainly not complaining that there should not be a particular focus on facebook because we do play a particularly important role in those public debates. one thing i hope to point out fairly enough is that we are never going to eliminate all hate speech. hateful individuals saying hateful things to each other has been around since the dawn of
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time. every form of communication technology. email, telephone, now social media, are used by a minority of people to utter a minority of hateful things. it is our job to go after that content. i don't want anyone to imagine that we can rid the world of hateful speech because that is part of the human condition. our job is to make sure it is minimized as much as we can. -- caroline: what about the criticism that some feel that this content in some way ands to more more eyeballs, in some way leads to a greater revenue for facebook? how do you tackle that criticism that you are not doing enough because basically it helps generate revenue for you? nick: let me be clear. we do not profit from hate. we have no incentive to have
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hate on our platforms. we don't like it. crucially, our users don't like it. we know this from the surveys we conduct. they don't like to see hateful, inflammatory content on their newsfeed. of course, advertisers don't like it either. it is not a question of whether anyone is for or against hate. everyone is against hate. it is what you do about it. we don't benefit from hate. we benefit from positive human connection. emily: coming up, she is helping millions of americans who have been laid off in the midst of the pandemic returned to potentially even higher paying roles. we will talk to the cofounder and ceo of guild education, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: welcome back to bloomberg technology. i'm emily chang. taking a look at lululemon shares which are up and after hours trading after the company announced to being further in the at-home fitness market by attempting to acquire mirror. it features live and on-demand classes. the deal is worth $500 million. of thee, a wide swath u.s. workforce is now out of work due to the covid-19 pandemic. one company that is trying to help them is the ed tech startup guild education, a company that
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is helping to retrain and upscale workers who have been laid off. earlier today, i spoke with co-founder rachel carlson. rachel: we have the opportunity to see the devastation of the health-care crisis and the economic crisis day today with our own students. it is safe to say the frontline workforce in america has been meaningfully disproportionately impacted by this crisis, right? the majority of the layoffs have happened amongst workers make less than $20 an hour. it's disproportionately impacting the communities of color. it's impacted rural communities. the devastation is bigger than you read on the front pages every day when you look at it by subgroups and sub demographics. so we have been thinking hard about how do we help our own students in school today and how to help laid-off workers who need to go back to school, get training to move into a different job. emily: how do you help them? rachel: historically, guild has
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worked with companies to offer education to their existing workforce. what we did and have been planning over the course of 2019 but accelerated in february and march was we launched a product that helps workers who have been displaced or laid off or furloughed to go back to school, and figure out how to help the not only with career services and job placement, but help them understand how they mask -- as a current job, restaurant, or some of the hospitality trades that have lost a lot of work and translate those into a health care role where bedside manner is similar to customer support. or that customer service experience, but you have to translate it jobs of the future. emily: what are the jobs of the future? where do you think the jobs are going to be? rachel: that's a great question. i think they will fit in the three p's. people management, project management and process management. computers and ai are not great
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at those three things. whether you are managing a person in a management capacity or helping a person in a bedside manner or customer support capacity, those are jobs we don't want our technology to do, we want humans to do. technology can support them but we want humans doing that work. those are the three areas. you see those in technology but also in a wide range of our historically traditional sector. the work is going to look different because we are going to work alongside technology. emily: companies ranging from disney to walmart. disney obviously struggling with theme parks in the middle of a pandemic. walmart has been going gangbusters, especially because of the floods of shopping online. what trends are you seeing from the two different employers in two different situations? rachel: two great examples because it is the tales of two companies. disney made the incredible decision to still support their
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employees with the education benefit. they are allowing their employees to use this time to upscale and rescale and advance their education. on walmart's side, it is in some ways business as usual for us where they are still encouraging all of their employees to explore education for upscaling and rescaling, as well as continuing to hire which makes them somewhat unique in this climate. emily: who is hiring and what kind of jobs are they hiring for? rachel: we are a little surprised by that because when we launch this next chapter product, we went out and try to figure out who is still hiring. we got a lot more responses than we anticipated. the sectors that are still hiring are those that were able to be functioning online or essential services. obviously the big boxes, but lots of companies that serve a customer online. whether that is the new online bank teller or the new online customer support or some of the services that used to be face-to-face and i will happen behind a computer. emily: now, what about the jobs
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that have been lost. when we look up, and we are still in a period of uncertainty. employers don't know what to plan for. what jobs are going to be gone? rachel: everyone keeps talking about a v or u recession. i think we are going to have a w. i think we have this first dip of jobs that were lost to either the economic or health-care crisis. i think we will see them come back up or maybe we saw that in may. i think there is a second dip to come that is tied to the automation agenda which companies have been planning for for many years and said they would implement or would likely happen during the next recession. everyone said in 2018 and 2019. i thinkcipating a w and those jobs will continue to be just proportional impacted on our frontline workers which means we need to dig in for jobs of the future for that entire population. emily: i know early on in the pandemic, you took the no layoff pledge which marc benioff and
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salesforce put out there. that was for three months. if this is lasting significantly longer, can you still do know layoffs? is that still the commitment? rachel: guild is in the fortunate position to continue growing so we are still hiring and we don't anticipate laying off our workers. we are super empathetic to some of the partners are in where they have to do layoffs. we are feeling secure ourselves and figuring out how to be partner oriented to companies that do have to anticipate layoffs in the months to come. emily: what is your expectation for this? every week, we get a new report, sometimes better than we think. generally, we are looking at historically low levels of unemployment. rachel: i think it will continue to look bad and i think we cannot judge it simply on how it impacts the stock market. i am frustrated the analysis is how does this impact the way we trade stocks.
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instead, the analysis should be how does this impact families, communities? i think clicking into that data and really looking at the disproportionate impact these layoffs are having in certain communities is crucial and a big part of the conversation at some level right now. emily: what are you seeing in those communities? that was this affecting them? rachel: our student to have family members experiencing layoffs or themselves in furlough all worried about that, they are in a really tough situation because they understand they both need to figure out how to not just move into another low-wage job. they want to move into a higher wage job but that takes training and time. and they have economic security right now they need to address for their family. what we are trying our best to do is dual track those conversations. how do we help provide for economic security now while helping you rescale an upscale? that really requires the world to move away from -- you learn something, you are done to a lifelong learning conversation.
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that is something we have been trying for for the last decade, but having it an urgent way now that we have to help people move up in their skills and career at the same time. emily: how concerned are you about the virus researching in different parts of the country, parts of the world? could that impact the w that you foresee? could it just be a longer -- could that trough be really low for a long time? rachel: i think that's where were all fear for of. i don't have the crystal ball but i share the concern. from our vantage point, just trying to figure out how we can be supportive of those that are impacted by that, regardless of how long the drop is and hoping and planning to come out of it sooner. emily: rachel carlson, ceo and cofounder of guild education. coming up, as the u.s. continues to face a reckoning on social justice, plus president trump suspending h1b visas, what does that mean for the tech sector? we will talk to the ceo of code
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emily: at a time when the united states is facing a reckoning over social justice and all right and companies are talking about how to include diversity and inclusion in their workplace temporarilytrump suspended new work reese's and barred foreigners from seeking employment in the u.s. this as major brands are taking a stand against facebook. to assess what it all means, we are joined by karla monterroso, ceo of code2040. code2040 has been working for years to help improve employment
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opportunities for the black and brown communities, and surface some of this amazing talent that had not been making it to silicon valley. howurious how-- curious you have been experiencing the last few weeks as momentum behind the black lives matter movement has picked up and now you are seeking all of these major brands taking a stand against facebook for how they handle hate and address minority communities on their platform. karla: yeah. i think it is kind of two-fold. one, there's a lot of excitement. threefold. one, there's a lot of excitement around seeing this pickup again and seeing forward movement. with that, just from it is gratitude for all the black lives matter activists that are out in local communities making this and the pain of black and latinx community something people cannot ignore. i feel tremendous gratitude for
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that. griefk there's a lot of also, understanding the level of pain and death we had to see on our tv screens in order for this to get the attention that it is getting right now. and the third, i would say a little bit of feeling -- while this is more national in scope, a lot of the way the tech industry in particular is operating is reminiscent of what happened in 2014 when google released its data. there was a lot of forward momentum around this that honestly capsized when the new administration came in and everyone went into their corners hiding from a president with an itchy twitter finger. emily: i love that word, capsized. that perfectly encapsulates what has happened. then there is the #metoo movement and a reckoning then around gender. if you think it is groundhog day, do you believe then that we
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are going to drift back to the way things were once these conversation sort of peter out? or do you feel like now is the beginning of a moment when we start to see real change? karla: we have an organization value around multiple truths. i find it very important in moments like this. i think it is absolutely possible that things go back to the way they were. and because of that, i just want to keep encouraging the consistent pressure that our communities are putting on companies to really look at what we have been saying for the last, god only knows how many years. i have seen much more change in the last two to three weeks than i think i have seen in, i don't know, at least 10 years. and that, to me, seems very promising. and moving from what is and what important,ike some
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but ultimately cosmetic moves to structural changes within companies, we never get to this place again, it is going to have a lot of work and a lot of pressure to keep the momentum going. emily: that might be the most hopeful thing i have heard yet that'm more optimistic now you are more optimistic. facebook is a huge employer and i know a lot of code2040 folks end up working at facebook. and at this time, where mark zuckerberg has taken a stand he says he has taken in terms of how to moderate speech and not , whatte political speech is your take on that? can you separate the two or not? karla: i do not believe you can separate the two. you create the conditions under
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which people show up to work every single day. and if endangering black life, endangering immigrant life, is somethingomen that you are comfortable with being on your platform, it is not a very tough extension for that to be and what happens internally in your company. peopleheard from many about how difficult it is to show up for that. i think you are stunning to see a lot of workforces push back on that as well. we have seen a lot of -- whether it is facebook or google -- i want to be clear that zuckerberg is one of the more dangerous examples that is far from a singular example of a company in the valley that allows that kind of discrimination to attack
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within its doors. another -- right. nin another development, president trump has temporarily halted new worker visas. obviously, the immigrant community is a huge asset in silicon valley. so many companies rely on immigrant workers. how big a deal is this? karla: it's a really big deal. clear, theto be administration's only guiding policy is white hegemony. that's it. that leaves us as a country less competitive in the globalized world. currently, there are 700,000 open tech jobs in the country. we only graduate 56 thousand people with computer science degrees each year and 24,000
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people. even when you add the 65,000 people that are -- the 85,000 people that are coming in with h1b's, that is still 106 he 5000 workers. and every time you do -- 165,000 workers. every time you don't have people to fill open roles, the work you are doing is slowing. the amount of work you can open up for more people is slower. and america needs national labor policy that helps us, right? there are currently 34 million boomers who are retired and 10,000 of them retiring every single day. alas boomers will retire -- the last boomers will retire in 2030. we don't have a single, unified strategy for how we are going to operate around this. the same people that are counter h1b visa are counter a diversified workforce. we have to really live with that. emily: right.
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emily: the momentum behind the boycott facebook movement continues to grow with more high profile advertisers pulling out. starbucks and coca-cola just to name a few. i spoke with the attorney general who has been investigating facebook and got her thoughts on how the platform is handling political speech. >> i think they have completely looked away from this and they have for a long time. i will continue to call upon facebook to exercise the true power it has in dominating the platform which really is such a common motive communication so much more in today's global
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world. they need to step up. we have another election coming. there are things they can do to both better protect consumers and also the public. i just call upon mark zuckerberg and his executive team to take the action that many of us a.g.'s have been demanding. emily: as you mentioned, there are a number of different attorney general looking at facebook, along with the federal government. do you think facebook needs to be broken up? a.g. healey: i think it deserves a hardluck. -- hard look. all of these major platforms, when you look at the extent and how much they control so much of our discourse, they have tremendous power in their ability to aggregate or personal information and data. i think they need real close watching and a regulatory regime that protects the public and protects the market as well. so, i think that is really important. our investigations will
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continue, but we certainly don't want a situation where one company becomes so powerful that it does harm to public. emily: would you say the same about apple, amazon, google? a.g. healey: i would. i think they are category companies who really many have talked about and some in congress have talked about deserve that hard look. for me, as a state attorney general interested in antitrust issues, in protecting consumers, in protecting privacy, we are going to continue to push for this. emily: meantime, we have the president signing this executive order aimed at social media companies, calling for law to be reconsidered that gives them protection from content that their users post. so, you do have these big tech companies taking fire from both sides of the aisle. way, thisf some weird
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is an issue that two different political parties can align on. a.g. healey: i hope parties can align on protecting people's personal information and the data, protecting consumers, protecting the marketplace. i hope that is something that both democrats and republicans can come together on and should be. emily: but the executive order may not be. a.g. healey: we have a president who will push for any number of things that are actually not helpful or constructive. i think that's another example. he may be looking for continued protection from platforms and others with respect with the kind of campaign ads he wants to run and the information he wants to see out there. we have to operate with an eye towards the whole picture here and not be distracted by whatever donald trump says. emily: twitter has stopped taking political advertising. do you think facebook should as well? a.g. healey: many candidates,
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and i have been one, have used facebook as a way to do political advertising. to me, it is a question of what kind of political advertising, what kind of information are you putting out there? we see some ads that are absolute blatant lies. they manipulated videos, content, speech. does no service to democracy. in the commercial sphere, if you lie when you are advertising, i will go after you for violation of the consumer protection law. the same should hold true when it comes to advertising political speech. emily: have we moved into a critical election, are you concerned the election could be undermined given the policies that companies like facebook have adopted? a.g. healey: i'm very concerned about the election for a couple of reasons. first of all, all of the deficiencies and liabilities that were exposed in 20 in
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6 in terms of how data and platforms can be misused and minute related, i don't think they were solved. it is going to be difficult for people to go to polling locations and vote. we are working hard in massachusetts to pass a law to allow voting by mail. i think that is something that should be happening everywhere in this country because we don't want to see a situation where people have to choose voting or their own health. i also worry about continued suppression of the book. rolls.ging of the haveof my colleagues and i held them accountable for decisions that are really meant to deny people access and suppress the vote. that is terrible for democracy. healey,aura massachusetts attorney general. be sure to catch our special program, bloomberg technology:
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♪ shery: good evening from bloomberg's world headquarters. i'm shery ahn in new york. haidi: i'm haidi stroud-watts in sydney. here are your top stories this hour. hong kong faces new uncertainty with the u.s. revoking it special trading status. washington says china undermines its traditional autonomy. the city has been bettered by protests, the coronavirus pandemic and the fallout from trade tensions.
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