♪ welcome to "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang in san francisco. stocks ended the day mixed today. a daily escalation in tension between the united states and china. tiktok says it now plans to sue the trump administration,, the effort unconstitutional.

china has now sanctioned almost a dozen u.s. officials in retaliation after the u.s. sanctioned several chinese officials last week. we are standing by for the president to deliver another is briefing after he signed four executive orders over the weekend on issues including payroll taxes, student loans, while lawmakers are still negotiating a possible broader relief bill. joining us to discuss, abigail doolittle, looking at the ups and downs. were there any clear drivers in one direction today? abigail: there really were not. then, the bulls were out, we reverse lower. the nasdaq had been lower all day. but we saw today is what some are calling the reopening rotation. some of the cyclical sectors, those climbed. as we saw those sectors climb,

that is when some of the tech stock. apple rebounded. the dow also backfire. the nasdaq did not make enough. seventh update in a row. longest winning streak since 2017. the russell 2000, that shows that divergence, the more value and cyclically oriented indexes. as for some of the individual movers. beneath the surface, it is pretty interesting here, at least to me. andresorts and mary at -- marriott, huge wins on the day. they have had a difficult year with the pandemic. today, investors going back into the stocks. of course, china is now allowing macau,s to go back into

issuing tourist visas for the first time since january on a trial basis. occupancy and china is improving. people really looking for those bright spots. the big winner is apple, up 1.5%. raisedhave dan ives, he his price target to a street saying this, company is close to a $2 trillion market cap. have dan ives last week, talking about how devastating a potential ban of u.s. companies working with we chat could be. talk to us a little bit about some of the other tech names. apple, microsoft, twitter all sort of tied into this tiktok

situation. abigail: it is really interesting to see. i want to point out the degree of this possible market cap for apple. if we go into the bloomberg terminal and look at this chart, this is apple's percentage of its market cap of the russell 2000. apple's market cap, let's call about 90% of the russell 2000. that really puts into dominantve just how apple is at this point. twitter popping on this news that they may in fact put in a bid for tiktok. a possible war. microsoft has confirmed that they are likely to put in a bid. almost $1.6cap,

trillion. twitter, about $30 billion. huge spread. but they possibly will be competing for those tiktok u.s. assets. emily: so much to examine here. abigail doolittle, thank you so much. continuing on this theme of chinese social media apps and their parent companies, tiktok now says they plan to sue the trump administration. with us now is stewart baker. a former assistant secretary for policy at the department of homeland security. first of all, what do you make 's claims, saying they could sue the president as soon as tomorrow. is it actually unconstitutional or is this well within the

president's power? stewart: it is certainly within his statutory power. anyone can argue that they have binge -- they have been treated unfairly. all that is really required under the executive order is a determination that tiktok is from an adversary nation and is posing a risk to the national security of the united states or to the security of americans. tiktok has had a lot of problems handling data. it is subject to chinese law to a degree that makes it kind of hard for them to argue that none of those things were irrelevant. i am guessing that that lawsuit will make a lot of noise but probably does not prevail. as a: you have spent time

general counsel at the nsa. you are the host of the weekly cyber law podcast. do you believe that tiktok is a security risk to the united states? stewart: it collects a lot of data, just like a lot of american companies do, although it probably connect a little more. where that data is and how it will be made available to foreign governments is still subject to uncertainty. the effect of chinese social media in the united states raises we -- raises real whethers not just about u.s. data will be used against u.s. interests, but whether the news will be tilted the same way that the news in hong kong is now tilted in favor of the chinese government. legitimate national

security concerns. emily: there are still questions about the logistics of how sales of a u.s. company could work. clone fromind of a its chinese counterpart. could they separate it out and truly address the president's concerns? truly separate itself from china altogether? stewart: i think you could separate it from china. you would still have some code writers i would suspect in china for the time being. write code.ople who from the u.s. point of view, the biggest worries are what kind of political views are going to end everybodyurfaced for in this medium. beit is microsoft, we can

reasonably sure it will affect the biases of silicon valley and not beijing. i don't think the u.s. government could do a great job separating it, which is why it is very valuable that a large u.s. company is interested in so they will negotiate can actually make a success of the new u.s.-based tiktok. emily: talk to us about the impact of this when it comes to aktok versus wechat, which is platform larger -- larger platform. the implications for we chat and tencent are far beyond where they could before tiktok.

stewart: you are quite right. tiktok is a one trick pony and the trick is apparently engrossing but not the sort of thing that you have to live for. we chat, in china, people live out of we chat. they do everything out of wechat . the idea that the united states got would try to put them out of business or make it impossible for them to operate outside of china would make it unlikely. i have a feeling that while the government has been thinking a of theut tiktok because investment committee. the ftc and justice department have been investigating them for mishandling data. they have been thinking about tiktok in a long time. i think wechat got tossed in

late in the game and the government is now very pleased that they saved themselves 45 days to figure out what they will too. they have already said, we are sanctioning tencent but only as to wechat. the legal legends and all, the tencent properties off to one side. now, i predict they will struggle with the question of, what will we do about we chat in the united states? i can't believe they will try to regulate wechat in china. and the question is, what are you going to do about wechat when it shows up here on a phone of somebody who is a tourist from beijing? and they want to buy something and the only way they know how these days is to call up wechat and buy it.

i would not be surprised to see some delays in the implementation of the restrictions. emily: you wonder how much of this is political. to an election. this 45 day window gets us even closer to that. administration, especially the people who are china hawks, have definitely got the bit between their teeth. they have overridden most of the objections inside the trump administration to a whole host of restrictions on chinese influence of u.s. industry. they are rolling them out week by week. we will see more. i think it is more than the wante who are china hawks

-- while the sun is shining rather than that they want this in place by the election. there is a sense in washington that whatever the trump administration does in this area , unlike almost everywhere else, what they do in this area may stick because democrats have not been particularly supportive of being kinder to china or chinese industry. so if they make changes in a bind and restriction -- in a biden administration, if the election goes that way. it is probably why peter navarro and the others in the white house are dying to get this done by election day. emily: there certainly gives an important -- there certainly is an important election coming up.

lyft have uber and been ordered to make their drivers full-time employees in a huge preliminary ruling out of california. we are awaiting a press conference at the white house. we will take you there as soon as president trump takes the podium. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: a developing story. the biggests that ridesharing companies cannot afford to lose. a judge has ordered the brand lift to convert -- uber and lyft to convert california drivers from contractors to employees,

with benefits. obviously, this would be a huge blow to uber and lyft if this stands. it is pretty significant that in round one, they have essentially lost. when uber and lyft went public, this was a major risk factor in their ipo prospectuses, the idea that their workers could become full-time employees. , they finally ab-5 whichw called pretty much clearly tried to make the brand lift driver simple -- uber and lyft drivers employees. now of course there will be appeals and more fighting but it is a strong sign that california

may have its way and make uber and lyft drivers employees, which would be a drastic change for the rideshare business. has helped make up for some of the loss when it comes to food delivery. could the companies survive this? they would have to pay drivers and, pay them benefits, charge more for rides as well. eric: i don't think we really know how it will look. causeaid that it would prices to increase. they might have to restrict the number of drivers they have. but what happens is anyone's guess. reallys an incentive to make a stink out of this. you can imagine them pulling from a market, hoping to stop it

from spreading to other places. or give it a real try and say, if we restrict to only our most dedicated drivers, how well can we make this work? that thelong argued whole prospect of ridesharing has depended on drivers being able to join and quit at their own ease. emily: we do expect these companies to appeal. of course, it does not apply only to uber and lyft. food delivery services as well. we will continue to follow that will as it develops. coming up, facebook is launching a new vertical. facebook financial. what is it? we will tell you next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." once the center of the pandemic, new york reported 476 new cases today. i should say only 476 new cases. it is preparing to reopen schools in the fall. the vice dean for public health practice at johns hopkins university spoke earlier with bloomberg television about the state's success in containing the virus. >> they got right that the virus needed to take priority, that the threat of the virus was practically existential to new york. this was the number one concern. if they could get this fixed, then other things could happen. they conveyed that sense of urgency through press

conferences and everything else. getink people in new york that, because of the leadership and the sirens and all of the things that affected them. >> just one image here. i live right up by the mount sinai hospital complex. the sirens went all night. at one point, i counted eight ambulances in the absolute crisis of this. sharfstein, what do they need to do in texas and florida to do a new york state of mind? >> i think it is getting those levels down so they can safely do things like go back to some essential activities threatened by coronavirus. i think the leadership has to be

clear, consistent, constant. i think there needs to be a restriction on some of the activities so they can drive that number down, not let up until it is really low enough. >> how close to herd immunity are we? everyonea question on 's mind, and nobody knows for sure. i think the fact that the virus affects a lot of people without them knowing makes people wonder whether more people are infected than we really appreciate, which would make it harder for the virus to transmit. herd immunity in this context is not absolute. it is relative. it is not that suddenly we have herd immunity and now the virus

will go away. point, it will help push some areas into a time when the virus is going down in the population, but it could still go up in the right circumstances. it is nothing like we wake up one day and we have herd immunity. it would be more like slowly we are seeing that it is just harder for the virus to spread in certain places. particularly in areas with such high rates of infection, it is a little bit harder for the virus to get around there. think we should not be waiting for herd immunity. we should be taking steps to protect ourselves. >> let's talk about schools. , saw a report over the weekend 97,000 children around the

united states tested positive in the last two weeks of july. that is around a quarter of those tested. decision to try and reopen schools in september? we still have significant numbers of children that are carrying the virus. they may be asymptomatic but they still have it. think it is a questionable -- that's the virus around, that potentially other infected, somet students could get quite sick, their family members. that is something we want to avoid. fstein, vicea shar dean of johns hopkins school of public health, which is

supported by michael bloomberg. president trump is sent to take the podium. we will you there live when it happens. this is bloomberg. ♪ businesses are starting to bounce back.

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in the arms. -okay... transfer your service online in a few easy steps. now that's simple, easy, awesome. transfer your service in minutes, making moving with xfinity a breeze. visit xfinity.com/moving today. emily: welcome back to bloomberg technology. i'm emily chang. tiktok, wechat and their parent companies under increasing scrutiny by the united states. as the president focuses in on chinese social media. we heard a lot about tiktok but what about wechat? i want to bring in isaac stone fish on the u.s. and china. isaac, your job over the last several weeks has been incredibly exciting as result of all of this back and forth, tension and ratcheting up. what do you think of the president setting his sights not

just on tiktok but on wechat and tencent which is one of the biggest conglomerates in the world? was the firstt example of a chinese app that have innovated u.s. apps. it was the first mobile chinese tech story. the reaction from the trump administration seems to be part actual national security concerns and part wanting to andrt beijing's ability also to put a thorn in beijing's ban googley ok, you and facebook. we will ban one of your champions too. emily: what do you think the actual consequences of this could be? isaac: i think it is in some ways similar to sanctions where the direct consequences might not be that apparent.

but the ability for tencent and wechat to potentially raise more capital from u.s. investors, the ability to use wechat overseas. they have said so far, it is not going to affect other tencent businesses but i find that hard to believe because if you tarnish wechat and make it an app non grata in the u.s. landscape, it has to have its other businesses as well. course, wechat is the primary reason people buy phones in china. if apple or google has to take it out of their app stores, that could also have a devastating effect on u.s. companies. do you imagine it would really come to that? isaac: that is an excellent point. the ability for apple to operate in china and, like all foreign companies that operates by the grace of the communist party, not because of issues like

competition or regulatory fairness, it is possible it could have a huge impact on especially apple but also other u.s. platforms. not only because of what has happened to tiktok -- wechat, but also it is a really good opportunity for beijing to either loudly or quietly retaliate against other u.s. tech companies. when beijing does retaliate, it is not going to be a very clear, ok you did this, therefore we are doing that. it could be as simple as a larger than expected sale to finding cisco symptoms one of its offices gets rated for unexplained reasons. there are other quieter ways that th china could put pressurn u.s. companies as a result of what happens to tencent and wechat. emily: what do you make of the tiktok side of the story? a company with 100 million americans used. now you have potentially twitter expressing interest here.

twitter, microsoft, one of those a better bet? isaac: tiktok is the second example of chinese tech innovation that has really swarmed the world in a very impressive way. right now, microsoft's acquisition to lose. they have a much larger warchest. ump has alike tr microsoft acquisition in mind. there does not seem to be other major companies that are angling. there could be some very last-minute surprises from a company like amazon, but it seems like the safest guest right now is a gets purchased by american companies that microsoft will be the one to take it. emily: there is this issue of how well tiktok is comply with an order in terms of how it treats the data of children on the platform. that is now getting drudge up

today by the ftc and doj. what do you make of that in the context of all of this? isaac: it is another reason why the trump administration and the u.s. government are putting forward to explain why tiktok is problematic and why tiktok is a risk. other affiliates and subsidiaries and the parent company can have access to tiktok's data. even though the company says it is walled off from partners, it is very easy to imagine beijing or the chinese parent using either legal chinese means or extralegal means, accessing all this data regardless so this is just another way the u.s. government can say we actually have a case here against tiktok. until now, huawei has been a major tech company in the spotlight. today, another development. the pentagon saying it will share spectrum with the wireless

carriers. there are a lot of concerns about the race to 5g and whether the u.s. could be china in that race. isaac: a very positive development for 5g in the u.s. and economist vehicles -- au tonomous vehicles whose success relies on 5g development. there have been complaints from partners that the pentagon is acting like a hog, taking up way too much of the been with of the spectrum. so it does feel like a promising step that the u.s. government is really trying to encourage the rollout of 5g. because right now, even though we are ahead of china on ev's, we are definitely behind on the 5g base. this does seem quite promising. emily: how concerned to do you believe the united states should be about the rise of the chinese tech sector? obviously, 5g is one thing but there are concerns china could own the rise of the new form of

social media. is that really a big concern? isaac: i think it is. i think in the policy community, they are trying to start to distinguish between what is -- i hate to use the word fair in foreign policy -- but, trying to distinguish between what is a heavily state backed company, like huawei, or state owned enterprise like china mobile, that is an arm of the state and treated as such. what does a chinese company that has done a lot of innovative things and act in a way that does not jeopardize american national security should be allowed to flourish in the united states? the problem is that beijing does believe that the companies that grow up in china are part of the party, at least in a vague sense . often ways, that should act in the interest of the party.

it's really difficult to try to out whatand piece is a fair way to treat chinese companies. there are so many brilliant chinese entrepreneurs and engineers have made really amazing products. it does not seem fair to say just because you are chinese, you cannot innovate in this way. on the other hand, we are in a situation where tiktok and wechat do have national security implications in the united states. it is something that is begging for a louder public debate in the u.s. as we try to unpack and untangle these issues. emily: and they are quite tangled. isaac stone fish of the asia society, always good to have your commentary. thank you for stopping by. coming up, we are awaiting a news briefing by the president. we will take you to the white house as soon as that begins. we will have more of bloomberg technology after this quick break. ♪

emily: facebook is unveiling a pursue payments and commerce plans under the leadership of the cocreator of its libra project, before he went over to work at facebook. the latest step in a companywide effort to bring facebook's individual products and app closer together. joining us to discuss is kurt wagner. facebook financial, what exactly does this mean? kurt: this is mostly a re-org. it is a new team led by david marcus. the idea is to bring all of facebook's different payment projects under one universal leadership and one universal game plan. right now, there are a number of different things they are trying

to do. they are trying to create this universal credit card system called facebook pay. they are trying to rollout payments and whatsapp in india and brazil. they're trying to create a digital wallet for the libra currency. all of that was operating simultaneously but not in thyssenkrupp. now they all understand under one group. now making things a little smoother for facebook. emily: what do you make of the fact facebook is doing this right now? kurt: i think we have seen them attempt to bring their different apps closer together a number of different ways in the last couple of years. you might recall the rebranded everything so it was now instagram by facebook, whatsapp by facebook or from facebook. trying to make sure people know this is all one company. we have already seen this in their messaging front. they will allow people to send messages between all of these apps. i think this is another step in the direction of unifying the whole company and trying to make

everything under one umbrella. it is probably better for regulation too if you have one team of people working all the payments products. that regulators are not talking to people on three or four different teams. this is really a regulation issue, but it also shows how important payment is. david marcus is a big deal inside of facebook. the fact he is in charge of this is a signal this is a very important thing for mark zuckerberg. emily: so what is the latest on libra? obviously, we know there was a ton of pushback from lawmakers, folks around the world, even some of the partners they had signed on. feeling have facebook this antitrust scrutiny. where does that leave libra right now? kurt: i asked david this question, because i was wondering if his new role meant that libra was kind of taking a backseat. he informed me, no, he is still working on novi, which is the libra wallet facebook is

building. i think the real distinction is libra is no longer just a facebook product. it is clearly bored within facebook. facebook was instrumental in getting it up and running. now it is run by an outside association. it has its own cpo. david was like i have more time that i am not necessarily shepherding this thing through the initial phases of being created. he says libra is still supposedly going to come by the end of this year. they are preparing the wallet facebook is building as if libra will come at the end of the year. this is not meant to be a signal that libra is anyway being sideline. it is just that facebook and david are not as involved as they were, which frees them up to do with other things. emily: kurt, we are standing by now for the president to give another news briefing at the white house. we will take you there as soon as that begins. of course, following the latest developments on the tiktok

situation, over the weekend, reports that twitter was also interested in buying tiktok's u.s. operations. we did a lot of reporting on microsoft and the talks happening there. what do you make of this new twitter development and whether that is a real option? kurt: when i first saw that, it, you by surprise because i don't think of twitter as being a company that is really in a position to do something like this, for a number of reasons. the most obvious being i don't think it has the money to acquire someone like tiktok. i think there's also the fact the ceo jack dorsey is not necessarily president donald trump's favorite executive at the moment. is this really something he will sign off on? when you look at where tiktok -- the idea of merging twitter with tiktok, that is the only way something like this would work. it is an interesting idea because twitter is not an antitrust threat like these other big tech companies. maybe providing tiktok under a

twitter banner, so to speak, could make a little more sense for regulation. we have seen twitter screwup buying in the past. it could be interesting to give them a second chance at getting that right. i think microsoft is still very much probably the best option at the moment, but it makes sense that twitter would at the very least make a phone call, figure out what the options are. i think every tech company would probably do that knowing how valuable tiktok is. emily: what is your reporting on the latest in the negotiations between microsoft and tiktok? what's actually happening in the room given all the complications and the sense that even inside the room in the oval office, there is not necessarily clarity as how this should happen? kurt: if you think about all the different little nuances and details that needs to be figured out for a deal like this to work, it is quite staggering.

we talked about some of this before over the last week or so. but, even the idea of who would run a new u.s. version of tiktok, right? that is the kind of thing that has to be ironed out before you make a deal like this, i think. details like that. details about data transfer, data storage, user privacy. how do you make sure tiktok continues to work with versions of tiktok and other parts of the world? i think there's a lot of logistics going into this beyond just price and the kind of ticking clock, this five week deadline that the president has set, obviously makes a lot of this a lot more urgent maybe that it would otherwise be. i think those are the questions these companies are likely trying to hash out because you don't want to get to a deal and i look back and say, well, we still have a dozen a very important questions we didn't touch on because we are trying

to make this new timeline. emily: let's talk about the evolution in social media behavior. folks over the weekend commenting about how tiktok user behavior is basically the next stories, like snap stories. this idea of short, very short form videos perhaps set to music and that tiktok has a lock on that. we know facebook and instagram -- actually, we will go to the president now. kurt, thank you for joining us. pres. trump: mail-in voting that just was revealed. half a million incorrect absentee ballot applications were set all across the state of virginia, including to many dead people. this was an unprecedented mailing flub that heightens concerns about the integrity of expanding mail-in voting and

mail-in voting efforts. it's a disaster. all over virginia, half a million votes. that is something you have to think about. we don't want to have a rigged election, i know that. you have to be very careful. as you constantly do mention russia, or you mention china or iran or others that attack our election system. when you have this mail-in voting, it is very susceptible. something that could easily be attacked by foreign countries, by frankly, democrats and republicans. i think it is something you have to start thinking about very seriously. our system is not equipped for. the post office is not equipped for it. people should vote like they did in world war i and world war ii. your numbers will be in 90 days

or less. your numbers will be very good, i think, much better on the coronavirus or the china virus. but, it's something have to look at and say this is just crazy. half a million incorrect ballot applications sent all over the state of virginia to many people that weren't living. they had some sent to pets, dogs. this is what we are going to get into and it's going to be a disaster. it's going to be done very poorly. it's going to hurt our country. after our news conference the progrowth adnd announcement, pro-jobs, pro health safety, the stock market went up 358 points today. we issued those executive orders and the stock market went up 358 points today. the dow jones and the s&p 500

are now up 50% since march. 50%. if you had money in there in march, 50%. the nasdaq index continues to set new records. it has been up over 14 times. new record, the nasdaq. the s&p 500 and the dow jones are going to be -- the way they are going, they will be topping records hopefully soon. excuse me? [indiscernible] >> stand by. emily: just a quick appearance there by president trump talking about mail-in voting. obviously, this has been a

subject of intense scrutiny as the president has made some, you know, additional statements on it. interesting to see that he just came in and left. we're going to continue to follow what the president just said and bring you any updates as we get them. i also want to bring in our lucas shaw who is joining us now on a story he put out over the weekend. an interview with the ceo of warner media. lucas, thank you so much for joining us. a big get for you, this conversation with jason kyl ar who is new in this job and obviously has some important things to work out under him. importantly, hbo and hbo max. talk to us about the highlights of this interview. lucas: jason took over the job about -- and i have been asking

to speak with him but much as soon as he did. one of the most pressing executives in the business. the founding ceo of hulu. really guided that streaming service to compete with netflix for many years. he chose to speak after his first major act leaving warner media friday. they really surprise move that sent shockwaves through hollywood. he dismissed three of his deputies, including the two people primarily responsible for hbo max which is there new streaming service which is designed to compete with netflix and disney plus. jason framed this as a reorganization of what has been a pretty old and siloed media company to better compete in the streaming age. i'm sure there are a lot of employees in the company. has been very successful over the years, but it was a company that is not perhaps in the right position to compete in this new landscape. emily: i just want to clarify

what just happened with the white house press conference. apparently, security asked the president to step aside. we can see security speaking to the president. that is perhaps why he left so abruptly there. but if that does get underway again, we will bring you back to that. meantime, lucas, talk to us a little bit about the job jason has ahead of him given that content is stalled, production has stopped around the world as a result of this pandemic, and this a lot of uncertainty, a lot of backup projects. where does that leave his priority? lucas: it means over the next nine months to a year, that hbo max is going to rely very heavily on hbo. hbo does have a good number of big projects coming out, including a show in the next week or two called lovecraft country that comes from jj

abrams and jordan peele. kylar is pretty on is that hbo max has not had a breakout original hit yet and they will have problems early to mid next year because they are just getting up and running in some international territories. there is still almost no scripted programming being developed. it means most streaming services will run into some kind of roadblock in the middle of next year. i will be curious to see how it affects the likes of netflix and disney plus. netflix has been pretty adamant it is going to be ok, but i think it is hard to imagine they will be completely unscathed by the pandemic. wely: over under, lucas, have about 30 seconds left. but, do you think kylar can retain the crown hbo has had for so many years under new management, having put out so many hit shows? can he continue that in the

midst of all of this competition? lucas: i think he should be able to because who was already in charge of hbo programming remains in charge. the only question is does he get stretched too thin? does his team get stretched too thin tried to program hbo, hbo max and the turner cable networks? emily: lucas shaw, thank you so much for that update. you can check out more of his interview with the warner media ceo at bloomberg.com. we are still standing by for the president to retake the podium. he started his news briefing, but quickly left the room apparently due to some security issues. we have been watching him speak with his security officials on camera. you can see folks still in the room there, or perhaps apparently leaving. so, if that does get underway again, we will take you there. unclear what the status of that is at this point. thanks so much for watching this

edition of bloomberg technology. more bloomberg television after this quick break. bloomberg daybreak australia is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ haidi: very good morning and welcome to daybreak australia. we are counting you down to asia's major market open. shery: good evening from bloomberg world headquarters in new york. i'm shery ahn. haidi: china hits back at u.s. sanctions in hong kong, targeting prominent senators marco rubio and ted cruz. clear of hitting white house figures. global virus cases approaching 20 million with 750,000 deaths.