did market is totally divided from the real economy. >> we are printing money in the u.s., but we haven't really seen that velocity of money into the system yet. >> every minute that goes by is compounding the losses. >> when you look at it, there's only so far that the market itself can go without the stimulus. >> the only thing voters really care about right now is the coronavirus and the economy. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: good morning, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ," live on bloomberg tv and radio. alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. tom is back with us on monday. we are within 2% of all-time highs on the s&p 500. lisa: tech names got bid up so much. i am struggling to understand the why behind this. jonathan: since february 19, the

average stock down 6%. it has been one portion of this market which is absolutely ripped through 2020. lisa: are we at the phase of recovery where you can go into more cyclicals, given the fact that you saw a bit of an increase in treasury yields? treasury yields coming back down today. we are going to be getting data, though, i date: 30. one thing i am -- at 8:30. one thing i am watching is the jobless claims, still expected to come in at over one million americans in the past week, even though it is expected to come down. a.m. -- aen 40 5 10:45 a.m. conference from speaker pelosi on the road to nowhere. each week that this goes on is more pain. selling $26, u.s.

billion of 30 year notes. strong demand all around, which has given investors some comfort that the bid isn't going to dry out. jonathan: starting with equities, equity futures this morning looking like this on the s&p 500, against a bond market that is doing ok. on thefutures unchanged s&p 500. in the market, -- in the bond market, a four-day selloff. in the fx market, euro-dollar $1.1848. 30 years coming up later today. the supply has been taken down at a decent measure. demand is doing all right. we had three year issuance with record low yields. today's 30 year note sale will break total three day issuance billion, to give you some sense of how much supply is going online. jonathan: treasury yield this

morning, 0.67% on the 10 year. dwyer, us now, tony canaccord genuity equity strategist. are you more preoccupied with what is going right or what could go wrong? was: back in 2009, i sitting in an industrial company conference, going for multiple slides of what their contingency plans were. the market was up 50%. you are still kind of in the grip of the great financial crisis. people were looking at each how can theg, market be up so much? when it goes wrong, i raise my hand and says, do you guys have a contingency plan of what to go right? what can go right always revolves around credit. i am going to look away from the camera for one second just to read a little bit out of this story.

chevron priced at two year bond yields yesterday with a 0.33% coupon. you had on the high-yield side aluminum packaging company that sold $1.3 billion of 10 year notes at 2.875%. high yield, 2.87 5%. so you go into an economic and market catastrophe or problem when you have a need for money, with limited or no access to it. clearly that is not the case. jonathan: do you keep buying stocks? the guys printing the money keep telling us their game plan. they are not even thinking about you could go on and on, not thinking about raising rates. 2024,forward guidance to potentially for the rest of my career, unless you get a major surge of inflation that is sustainable. 10 year inflation breakevens are

still out about 1.6%. they want core inflation at an average of 2%. these guys are going to have the foot on the pedal for the foreseeable future, and as a result of that, the need for returns in pension plans is creating a demand equation that lisa pointed out, not just for treasuries, for investment grade and speculative credit. lisa: when does the real economy matter? tony: this is an incredible time because what we have is this access liquidity we have never seen before, coupled with the oecd, they track 37 countries. as of the end of their june data , at the end of june they were saying there were zero of the 37 economies showing positive or above average leading indicators. that pivoted to 90%

month-to-month. so we have an economy that has largely been in collapse that is just beginning to pivot higher. whatever that has happened in the past, you've had sustained economic recovery, so it is really important that we don't need an incredible surge and i, -- surge in economic activity. you are beginning to get that infection higher. jonathan: you've got to concede to some degree that the economic story is beneath the index. index is still down around 30%. that is not because the economy is doing well. lisa: there is discretion certainly that is beneath the surface of some of these indexes . hard-pressed to find the discretion in a junk-bond yielding 2.875%.

hard to find the discretion in a record amount of issuance across the board, in more junk bond year to date so far than all of last year. looking forward, there's a question of how sustainable this is, especially in light of some pretty serious potholes. for example, there is no deal in washington, and the pain is deepening. tony: can you imagine washington is not going to come to a deal, and the only purpose of the government is to support people, and they are going to let everybody fail? our underlying assumption is that pain is the motivator for change and growth. they will get enough pain, the feedback loop will become negative enough that they will come to a deal. whate've got to separate is good or bad, right or wrong. frankly, i don't think this incredible use of debt ultimately is going to be a good thing, but that doesn't matter.

try to get by what intuitively seems good or bad, right or wrong, and just focused on what is. trillion of new issuance that allows companies to bridge the gap until we get the continued pivot and economic activity. historically, when you look back at similar high volatility followed by a drop retracement in the volatility, when you see correlations as high as they .ere that is really the differentiator. is it really the beginning of a new economic and market cycle? the data suggest that it is. jonathan: something has got to break. i am wondering what breaks first. is it the market and the market rally, or the resolve down in washington? of course they've got to get something done, but at the

moment, the economic data is fairly resilient relative to what people expected to see coming into august. i am wondering what breaks the resolve down in washington. even with the increasing case of covid-19 over the last month, the psa numbers are still going up. takent is happening is if something that has gone from extraordinary and is moving more towards normal. at the same time, you're going to get this pressure in washington to actually get something done. gameith all of that in the , you are having incredible money pushed into the system that bridges the gap. of course, you're going to have to have a deal in washington. when you look at the historical data, when it is set up like it is, you do get those things to happen. lisa: i will say it is the dow of tony dwyer.

eventually the rally will get to some of the less love sectors. that is our call --tony: that is our call. let's define the market. here's what we have. we have the stay-at-home stocks which are now defensive in .ature let's say the economy gets a lot better. they should correct what has been happening over the last couple of weeks, where the emerging markets do way better because you are starting to price and returned economic activity. people keep thinking that this is like the bubble of the dotcom boom, but it is totally opposite when you look at the average stock. composite advanced decline line i think made a new high this week, all-time high.

it was in a two-year downtrend by the time you hit the dotcom bubble peak. however, even the banks, there is still a high correlation because they have been going up, just not as much. that is where the opportunity exists, where you get some of the faang stocks to maybe go sideways, consolidate their games with economic activity improving, while some of these other areas really start to ramp. jonathan: tony, you're more than welcome to join us anytime you like to read a bloomberg story in the morning. [laughter] tony: i'm pandering to my audience. jonathan: just a little bit. send my best to the family. great to catch up. thank you very much. looking at cisco, down in premarket by almost 7%. chuck robbins, i have to say, very mild-mannered, very modest. this is what he had to say in

the last 24 hours. "as you move down the customer stack, things get weaker and weaker as the customers get smaller and smaller." this country is still driven by small to medium-sized business. i am concerned about what happens next. we've heard from ceos during this reporting season over the last month. lisa: and we see it in credit, too. those of the companies having a harder time getting access to credit. jonathan: coming up, lisa hornby of schroeder investment. from new york city this morning, good morning. and good morning to my friend and colleague tom keene, who is tucked in bed, listening to this on radio. live on bloomberg radio and tv, this is "bloomberg surveillance ." >> with the first word news, i'm karina mitchell. joe biden and kamala harris made their first appearance as democratic running mates, and tore into president trump for his failed response to the

coronavirus pandemic. it could be one of the few times the running mates actually campaign together. , according to a government advisory opinion -- generally, u.s. government employees are barred from conducting political activities in a government building. fannie mae and freddie mac plan to charge an additional fee on mortgage refinance loans. they say the fee is meant to mitigate the risk in the pandemic. it could cost a typical consumer $1400. apple rolling out a new way to boost sales of digital services. there's been a series -- there will be a series of bundles that subscribe to music, video, news, fitness, and more. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more

than 120 countries. i'm karina mitchell. this is bloomberg. ♪

sen. harris: the president's mismanagement of the pandemic has plunged us into the worst economic crisis since the great

depression, and we are experiencing a moral reckoning with racism and systemic injustice. jonathan: senator harris at the big biden-harris unveiled. alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. your thursday morning price action shaping up as follows. equity futures return to nowhere on the s&p. big gains in the last 24 hours. of 1% couple of tenths from all-time highs. euro-dollar, $1.1852. in the treasury markets, a bit of stability. 30 your supplies coming out of little bit later. a story you have been on top of, u.s.-china relations breaking down in a significant way in the last month. "the wall street journal" reporting more than a dozen u.s. multilateral companies raising

concerns about the broad scope and impact of mr. trump's executive order targeting wec hat. some of the companies on the call, apple, the walt disney company. the concern is real. lisa: just to give you some color around apple's concern, about 1/5 of their revenue comes from china. most people within china would rather give up their iphone than take wechat off of their platform. result ife potential apple is not allowed to sell wechat. jonathan: they are worried about the bottom line. let's be clear about that. a lot of market participants we catch up with think it is politics, and they don't think the current moves mean too much for this market and the economy in the short term. lisa: this is the tension lisa: why is there no response to any of these tensions that have material ramifications for the bottom line should they go

through? jonathan: let's bring in kevin cirilli, bloomberg's chief washington correspondent. your thoughts on the latest move from the administration, and the pushback we are starting to see reportedly from the c-suite in america? kevin: i don't think it is political theater. the executive order i am told was crafted with some wiggle room in mind, especially whether or not tencent would be able to continue onward with other business dealings in america. that is something that will likely come up once china and united states talk. i think that the business community's push on this is really indicative of how intertwined silicon valley is with china. but from the administration's perspective, from washington's perspective, they are wondering, why is it that china can have access to the u.s. markets, that china can allow for their apps in the united states, but the united states is having to really bend over backwards in

order to appease beijing. that is a broader trend we have seen over decades, but the general thinking in washington, whether it is senator harris introducing a bill american companies to go after chinese companies are stealing electoral property. jonathan: i imagine we will hear it a lot more in that several months. from your perspective, how many times have we been told from officials in this administration that the trade talks and the trade agreement will be insulated from everything going on around us? can it this week? kevin: no it can't. i can tell you the administration is fully prepared to talk about we chat and tiktok during these next round of talks. the president has said that in

terms of the u.s.-china phase i trade deal, he is not interested in getting any type of water deal between now and november 3. datau look at any of the that is public, they have not been keeping course. however, speaking publicly yesterday to reporters, larry he is stillg that confident that those purchases will be made due. all of that paints a very unpredictable, uncertain picture of where the u.s. and china stand terms of their trade. lisa: traditionally when china and the u.s. had talks, the economy reigned supreme. no one wanted to harm economic growth in either nation, and that sort of read it push to come together yet that seems to be evaporating. the economic question is taking a bit of a backseat to fairness, to the idea that china has been implementing similar types of deals that the u.s. is now proposing, so why shouldn't the

u.s. protect its intellectual property. would you agree that the economic put is softer than it has been in the past? kevin: republicans and democrats would agree on that. just to that point, both china and the united states taking aggressive steps in terms of economic stimulus. here in washington, d.c., it is a long time coming, but at the end of the day, the expectation is anywhere between $1.5 trillion to $2.5 trillion in an agreement. yes, september is going to be a dizzy and month of domestic politics, but there's also going to be new policies put forth from a bipartisan working group of lawmakers in the house and senate about policies towards china. so whether it is on digital infrastructure or a clean network, or trying to get western allies back with the united states, something that the biden campaign says there administration would focus on, something that secretary of

state mike pompeo, who was just traveling to europe, has been trying to rally as well, there is a push to get europe back on the same page with the united states in terms of dealing with china. jonathan: let's pick up on that line, the spread of between 1.5 trillion dollars and $2.5 trillion. we talk about it like it is nothing. lisa: this gives you a sense of the scope of some of the stimulus efforts. i shouldn't call them stimulus. . it is fiscal support to keep the economy on life support until the virus gets under control. where are we on that? kevin: nowhere near. yesterday, nancy pelosi really speaking out against treasury secretary mnuchin, saying they are still dug in, so no news to report their. still a stalemate in washington, d.c. jonathan: and then secretary mnuchin coming out and correcting the speaker. kevin cirilli down in washington , our chief washington correspondent. we play the blame game down in washington continually.

lisa: the question to me is who is going to take most of the blame. president trump is coming out with executive orders, saying he is doing something. nancy pelosi saying they had a proposal that republicans didn't take up for weeks when they could have. it is going to be a political hit for both of them. as more people lose their jobs and more people start to worry about where they're going to get their next meal. jonathan: i will quote the treasury secretary, steve mnuchin. "the democrats have no interest in negotiating." i am sure they would say exactly the same thing. we hope for some improvement in the labor market that is still in a lot of pain. the people behind the numbers still struggling. if you look at this equity market this morning, good morning to you all. we are negative by about four price points, down a little more than 1/10 of 1%. the record supply from the

, we had aith yields correction higher, but still near all-time lows. coming up, lisa hornby of schroeder investment. this is "bloomberg surveillance ." ♪

jonathan: from new york city, this is "bloomberg surveillance ." live on bloomberg tv and radio, alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. tom keene back with us next monday. let's get back to the price action this thursday morning. equity futures churn to nowhere on the s&p 500. we come in around four points, down a little more than 0.1%. a big move in the last 24 hours taking us to within a whisker of record highs. euro-dollar firmer on the euro side, $1.1841. it treasury market unchanged after a four-day selloff. treasury yield, 0.68% on the u.s. 10 year. that's the story of the bond market. let's get to the story of the fed. fed officials continuing their course for additional fiscal stimulus.

boston fed president eric rosengren telling bloomberg it is essential. mymy personal assumption and forecast is that some form of additional stimulus is going to occur. it would definitely be bad news for the economy if we don't do any additional stimulus at this time. jonathan: michael mckee joining us now, bloomberg economic and policy correspondent. brilliant interview. as you pointed out, he has a message, and i think it was message received. michael: definitely. he was very clear on the idea that the u.s. has not done a good job containing the virus, and that is going to hurt the economy going forward. similar message from dallas fed president robert kaplan. both of them making the point that the alternative indicators everyone is watching for real-time information on what is happening for the economy have rolled over, and the economy has definitely slowed in the last month as we saw this new covid outbreak.

both firm on the idea that the most important thing to do right now is to contain the virus. lisa: this is taken as a political message, given the fact that the president is trying to say that the u.s. did the best job it could have under the circumstances. have fed officials taken a more political tone recently? michael: i think they are a little bit forced into it. it is not so much that they are trying to take sides, so much as they have it in a major problem and they are getting frustrated because there isn't much the u.s. federal reserve can do about the fact that the economy is rolling over at this point. they don't have any tools to address it, and it looks like the fiscal authorities have stepped aside, and we are going to see the economy go down unless somebody does something. they are not mentioning any names, but they are saying we've got to control the virus and we need to do some this coworker to try to keep this economy from sinking again. jonathan: it just reminds me of the ecb. please do more, and then they are left having to do more themselves. here we are ahead of the virtual

jackson hole later this month, and then the presser decision of september for the federal reserve. formalize expect to this shift in the reaction function over the last year or so? michael: i asked eric rosengren about that, and he suggested he doesn't think the fed can do much at this point. there's been a lot of talk about them changing their forward guidance and trying to tie it to inflation, and the idea that inflation could run a little hot for a while. he said that is not going to help much right now, and we may not be ready to do that. kaplan just ab short time ago, and he basically said the same thing. it seems like the fed is going to be standing by for a while. it may be that politics gets into this, and they want to stay on the sidelines as much as possible before the election, but at this point, it doesn't seem like they think they can do much to influence the course of the economy beyond what they have already done. jonathan: great to catch up, as

always. this is the problem. the federal reserve has been successful in forcing financial conditions away from the underlying economy. enoughspreads are tight that people can issue debt at low borrowing costs. the fed is taking the heat off of fiscal authorities to do a lot more. lisa: but at what cost? this is when people talk about the gap between the wealthy and the less wealthy in the united states, and that is widening. inflation is an asset prices, directly related to the federal reserve. they are saying they are not that concerned about it, but my guess is that is something they are thinking about as you see new record highs in the s&p. joining us now is lisa hornby, schroder investment portfolio manager. i could have told you every single data point, and people still would have gotten the market call wrong.

what is the focus for you right now? lisa h: it is clearly an extension of these benefits. i think the points you both were making before i came on where right. will the central government get it together and continue these unemployment benefits? right now, the economy is surviving on stimulus. so you about some of the packages that are going to be rolling off, potentially the unemployment benefits. the question is whether or not state and local governments get relief. these are some of the big economic questions we are asking ourselves. state and local government people.s 60 million -- surveys are showing that optimism and hiring plans are way below where they were pre-pandemic. from a fixed income

investor's standpoint, do you bet on the fed put? the idea that no matter what, there is going to be a pinning of treasury yields roughly where they are, regardless of policy? or do you really look to some resurgence in inflation and some economic data to get your guidelines? lisa h: to an extent, there is a fed put. we first and foremost look at valuations when we are evaluating markets and credit. valuations today tell us they are more or less median level. things are not expensive, things are not cheap. but what keeps is engaged in the markets despite them being just fair value is the fact that we have this tremendous liquid the environment. so the fed keeps us perhaps more engaged because we think there is some degree of backstop, but we will continue to become much more cautious if we start to see spreads really wretched in. there's a tremendous dislocation

between where markets are trading today and what the underlying economy tells us, and this is not something we think will be gone in just a couple of months. there are going to be sustaining pressures on certain points of the economy for a long time to come. lisa a: there's a question about the intelligence of buying treasuries as an investor right now. where are you right now on that? do you see treasuries acting as a hedge against equity volatility going forward? lisa h: we are fairly neutral duration in our portfolios. i think the fed is the backstop. i find it really difficult to see rates moving aggressively in either direction at this point in time. i think we are kind of in a range. yes, i think you want to have some treasuries in your portfolio if we have another risk off event, but equally, i think we are going to see the government response very quickly , both on the fed the fiscal side, if we have another major

downturn in financial assets. i think they learned their lesson this time around. the magnitude and the briskness of the response was just incredible, and that is what stabilized markets in a very short time. jonathan: this market has taken down a tremendous amount of supply on both the sovereign and the credit side. are you seeing any signs of fatigue whatsoever? ita h: from my perspective, seems that investors just can't get enough. the u.s. is still the highest yielding developed market in the world, bar italy. we are still seeing that international demand. costs have gone down a couple of percentage points over the last 18 months, so we are still seeing that international demand. it seems insatiable. we are even seeing domestic retail demand as well. right now, it seems that people just can't get enough of credit. you look at the deals that have come in the market over the last few weeks, the concessions have been completely erased. in many cases, they are 20 basis

points through where the initial target bus. the fed is still there is a backstop. i think people are looking through this congressional impasse and thinking something will get done, and i think some of that risk premium, i think there should be a somewhat greater degree of risk premium in markets, just given some of the uncertainty out there. but at the moment, it is kind of calm. jonathan: just a final question for me. we face this really strange dynamic in credit right now. it feels like momentum, where lower yields beget lower yields. when i say to people, what is the money being used for when the issue this debt, they say it is to lock in low rates, and that is a good thing because average borrowing costs are lower. therefore, i want to buy the credit. but that just tells me that you want to buy credit because the average firing costs -- the average borrowing costs are lower. and it just feels like this weird cycle where leverage might

be coming up, but because average borrowing costs are lower, people want to buy. what breaks that trend? lisa h:lisa h: that has been the story of the last 10 years. rates have been going on for almost -- going down for almost that entire time. i think there's a few things that break it. the central banks starting to deliver a different message than the one they are delivering now, so they are no longer going to be as supportive as they were. i think inflation coming through in a material and very sustained way, nothing like what we saw yesterday. i think you need to see serious inflation for them to change their tune. there's a million other potential variables that could change things, but that is why i think you use valuations as your guide, and as credit becomes more expensive, you have to be really judicious about which companies you own. there are certainly still

companies out there that are buying back at, that are taking some of the higher coupon debt out of the markets, so leverage may be more or less unchanged. they have large cash buffers as well. i think you just have to be cautious about which companies you are buying and to more defensive names. jonathan: before we let you go, can we say congratulations from the "bloomberg surveillance" family to yours? i understand there is a new hornby in the family. what is his name? lisa h: alexander. thank you very much. --s a proud blue birdwatcher a proud bloomberg watcher. [laughter] feldman: coming up, joe of kelsey research advisory -- of kelsey advisory -- of telsey research advisory. in the bond market, treasuries finding some stability,

taking yields 20.67%. euro-dollar, -- yields to 0.67%. $1.1839.ar, this is bloomberg. karina: joe biden says the campaign raised $26 million in the first one he for hours after he picked senator kamala harris. they made their first joint appearance in biden's hometown in delaware. nancy pelosi says she has turned back an overture from treasury secretary steven mnuchin to restart stimulus talks. the white house hasn't budged from the demand that the stimulus be smaller. she is offering to come down $1 trillion if the republicans raise their offer by $1 trillion. president trump ramped up his effort to get schools to reopen. he met at the white house with parents, educators, and

researchers who argued for in person learning. the president says it is some land toat offer in person on sundays and online on other days. according to dow jones, feynman property group and property partners have teamed up and are in talks. offerede concessions over lease agreement for jcpenney's stores. and apartment rents plunged last month by the most in almost nine years. according to appraiser miller samuel, rents were down 10%. meanwhile, july's vacancy rate flying to a record 4.3%. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm karina mitchell. much more to come. this is bloomberg. ♪

beat onn't have a good where the consumer is at this point in time and how they are going to behave coming out of this. unemployment is high, and we

don't know how long that is going to last. jonathan: really interesting conversation with mark jenkins of the carlyle group come the global head of credit. look for more of that online and on your bloomberg terminal. here's your price action this thursday morning. we are counting down to jobless claims at 8:30 eastern. in the fx market, euro-dollar firmer on the euro side, $1.1835. equity futures down four points on the s&p 500, a little more than 0.1%. the bond market treading water after a four-day selloff. tuesday,r supply tends yesterday -- three your supply tuesday, tens yesterday, 30's later today. when we talk to market participants at the moment, a lot more constructive on the future than someone operating in this economy right now and trying to run a business. lisa: the unknowable right now

is what happens when some of the fiscal support runs out because so far, there has been something propping up businesses, which has been consumer spending, which is held because of what we have seen with respect to fiscal support. that is running out, and that is a question of when you will see these two stories converge when the consumer runs out of spending cash. jonathan: my apologies for describing market participants as a different breed. i am close to many of you, so i didn't mean that at all. [laughter] feldman,s now is joe kelsey advisory group -- joe feldman, telsey advisory group assistant director of research. home depot and lowe's are putting up really strong numbers. tractor supply is another one where performance has been superstrong. they are more rural, suburban,

and the consumer is gravitating towards investing in their yards and their home. that has really been a big surprise, considering that is a little more discretionary, and the fact that the consumer is a little bit tenuous right now in terms of their economic situation. lisa: there's dissidents because people are still spending, and yet the unemployment rate is at higher levels that we saw during the peak of the last recession. when does this give? when do we see the why behind all of that money to cover bad loans? joe: we are really curious to see the next two months. right now, no plan in place, we will have to see what happens with the consumer. we are expecting july sales to be a little bit softer. we saw that spike in covid that was really pressuring things. we will have to see this back-to-school period. it could be really challenging for some of the retailers, especially the more discretionary like apparel.

-- lisa: inl sector the retail sector, more than 55 have filed for bankruptcy. are we going to see further consolidation in the behemoths? joe: i think we are going to see more consolidation of market share among the big guys. i think we are not quite done with the bankruptcies. we made get a bit of a lull as you get to the holiday period where they get through the holiday season, but come next year, some of the weaker players are really going to get shaken up. jonathan: also curious about what happened with these malls and the so-called anchor businesses that are jumping ship. joe: it seems to us that there's fewer really good malls out there. that's likely to continue. you are going to have this consolidation of the mall space

to 100, 150 really good malls. they will be ok. everything else is going to be a challenge. they are trying to make that space more useful and get better rent. talking to amazon about maybe using some space. i don't think it is going to drive traffic to the malls, but it could take some rent. jonathan: that's the story, how they manage the real a stent footprint -- the real estate footprint. who do you think is doing a good job of that at the moment? joe: anybody in an open-air center, so all the big bucks guys, whether it is walmart, costco, home depot, lowe's, dick's sporting goods, best buy, those that are the big boxes, can do curbside pickup and you don't have to run into a mall. anybody touching them all right now is really facing some talent -- touching a mall right now is

really facing some challenges. it could present a continuing challenge. lisa: which brick-and-mortar based retailers do you see as having the greatest chance of success in an era that is moving increasingly online? likes toybody always beat up a best buy or dick's sporting goods. actuallyhave been doing really well. they have proven their relevance. they have proven that they can compete online. they have developed on the channel efforts a lot better. even home depot and lowe's, everybody says you can buy so much of that stuff online, and yet people want to pick up at the store. people want to shop and get a sense of what is going on there. off-priceme of the retailers, t.j. maxx, people want to go and treasure hunt, and that works. jonathan: joe, great to catch up with you as always. lisa, what a struggle we've got. irene, going to hudson yards

last spring, looking around and thinking, this is too much. marcus a yeariman later has got to close that store. it is a-year-old. can you imagine what that means for that mall, even if it does reopen and get people back in the same way? plus, what happens to other retailers because neiman marcus was there? joe: -- lisa: it is pretty bleak. look at how many empty storefronts there are. what is going to fill them? this is a conversation i have with my friends all the time. who is going to come and pay the rents that are being demanded in order to sell things that people can buy online? jonathan: the thing we have been waiting for is where the price would correct. any sign the price is correcting? lisa: you are starting to see brent come down, particularly in the retail space. there is this convergence a little bit. the question is will it be enough, and how quickly will the

recovery be in the big city centers, which is right now looking highly difficult given the uncertain path of the virus, as well as what is going on with fiscal support. jonathan: this is what tom loves doing, walking down madison and 5th avenue and counting stores, and he hopes they are all shut because he doesn't want to get pushed into by something he does want to buy, and he's very upset when they are open. just to explain how he might feel about retail after a brief vacation. from new york city this morning, good morning. alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. on will be back with us monday. count you down to a jobless claims report in about 35 minutes. looking at the price action around one hour and 35 minutes away from the opening bell. equities down a little more than four points, -0.1%. on this economy, daniel morris of bnp paribas come alive on bloomberg radio and bloomberg tv. this is "bloomberg surveillance ." ♪

>> the market is totally divided from the real economy. >> we are printing money in the u.s., but we haven't really seen that velocity of money actually into the system yet. >> every minute that goes by is compounding the losses. >> when you look at it, there's only so far that the market itself can go without the stimulus. >> the only thing that voters really care about right now is coronavirus and the economy. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lee several months. jonathan: good morning -- and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: good morning, good morning. 30 minutes away