>> the market is totally divided from the real economy. >> we are printing money in the u.s., but we haven't really seen that velocity of money actually into the system yet. >> every minute that goes by is compounding the losses. >> when you look at it, there's only so far that the market itself can go without the stimulus. >> the only thing that voters really care about right now is coronavirus and the economy. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lee several months. jonathan: good morning -- and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: good morning, good morning. 30 minutes away from the jobless

claims report. alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. as we approach that jobless claims report, equity futures doing ok. the equity market within 0.2% of a record high. talks down in d.c., we are on repeat, going nowhere anytime soon. lisa: it doesn't seem like markets really care. they are looking at the amount of money being thrown at the markets from the federal reserve and the likelihood of a deal being struck. so many people banking on this, and yet here we are, nasdaq futures marginally, basically a churn, but the s&p lower. jonathan: after a big moving yesterday's session. this is how we shape up, with equity futures down around six points, off 0.2% on the s&p 500. just slightly negative. still around record highs after

a phenomenal rally off the bottom in march. a 50% move. $.1843 --r, one other euro-dollar, $1.1833. that is a stronger euro. donald trump saying the dollar will be stronger if he is reelected. he likes a stronger dollar now. he seems to change his mind on this one every so often. do yout this point, think anyone trades off of the president's proclamations of the dollar? jonathan: right now coming up. lisa: this used to be a major thing, if the president signaled things were going to be going one direction or another. but there isn't a clear it.ction of

jonathan: we have seen this administration come out and say things on the currency before, and the currency has moved, so it has certainly happened. every time i have questioned that because there are only so many letters the treasury -- only so many levers the treasury can pulled to do something about it. i'm listening for the ecb. we topped out at $1.19 in the last week. i am wondering what the threshold is for the ecb to say it is not a target, but it is a channel, and it can block our ability to achieve our inflation objective. lisa: i think the ecb is more interesting to watch on this front, this idea of whether a stronger euro is positive in that it reinforces the idea of the euro being a really strong putn, and people wanting to money in that area. unclear whether we are getting close to that point. jonathan: let's head to london,

where there is a heat wave. the definition of a heat wave in london is just a week of summer. what happens in the u.k.? you are trained from a very young age to complain about the weather. it's raining. it's horrible. it's miserable. when it's hot, it's miserable. daniel morris of bnp paribas has become a little more british. daniel: i'll take that as a compliment. jonathan: is it too hot in london? daniel: it's miserable, but it is going to be raining soon. jonathan: and then everyone can complain about the rain. it's talk about this market. for a number of weeks, we've had many people come on this program and talk up europe. they talked down the united states. what we have seen is a resilient he was economy. the data has been ok. what is the take from the capital right now in london? daniel: in terms of being optimistic about europe, at least that has been the right

call if you think about the currency, given the rally you've had in the euro, but that hasn't been reflected really and equity markets and in economic growth as well. i think that perspective is still the right one because where we are now, you are likely to see, if anything, a re-imposition to some degree of lockdown measures in europe because of the increased infection rates, which are really more ahead of europe than they are necessarily in the u.s. , where hopefully the u.s. is past its peak, and i imagine you will see states more eager to go back to reducing restrictions as opposed to increasing the. so the momentum does seem to be with the u.s. we saw the gdp figures of how bad the impact was in europe because of the lockdowns. follow that strategy, so will benefit from a purely economic point of view, though it has all of the other implications when it comes to death rate and infections. lisa: it goes against what a lot

of people are saying, which is that the euro region is way ahead of the u.s. and it is going to see a faster economic recovery. do you see a potential selloff? how big will you see outperformance in the u.s. versus european equities in particular going forward? daniel: so far, the difference you had between the performance of u.s. and european equities for a decade has been driven much more by what is happening with the tech sector. your view on how the markets are going to perform relative to each other really comes down to how you think u.s. tech is going to perform, and i think we appreciate on one hand, valuations do look very high for u.s. technology. that said, we own of that they can stay high for a long time and go higher. i think the other concern people have about technology is up to now around the pandemic, it has been the big beneficiary because we are all watching things on netflix and ordering from amazon, if you do get a vaccine,

how much of that momentum is reversed? the worldback into and spend less time up home -- less time at home, and does that take money out of technology? at some point, we imagine a change in the kind of consumption dynamic as you get a reversal towards prepended norms -- prepended norms -- pre-pandemic norms. time, it isined challenging to see that happen. we had a similar narrative where value, this big rally in and everyone said this is the turning point. it has been a decade of underperformance by value, but now we are coming back, and it lasted about a week. when you think what you have to have for long-term dynamics to support a sustained value rally, i think you've got to see two

things. one is a sustained increase in bond yields, and it is a pretty challenging task to come up with a scenario where you are going to see bond yields increasing considerably over a lengthy pe riod of time. i don't think anyone sees us going back to 2% anytime soon. at the same time, if you think about a value versus growth dynamic, you still got to take into account the long-term potential within the tech sector. it is not like that changes your median to long-term view about the potential within the sector. so value has got to overcome that as well. the momentum that you have on growth/tech, and also what is likely to be just low interest rates for who knows how long, and for value to outperform in that environment is really challenging. jonathan: we've had a move in treasury yields of 18 basis points last tuesday, with that

record close on the 10 year yield. but i would take it a step further. if the fed has fixed to the game with the yield curve, if they basically said to market participants the front end is anchored, and we already have yield curve control, that is the message some people are receiving right now. if you are telling me value can't perform over a sustained time without higher treasury yields, hasn't the fed just told you go long growth, value is not going to work in this regime. daniel: if you go back to the original rationale for qe, it was really trying to push investors into riskier assets. if you bought investment grade corporate bonds, but high-yield. now you're buying equities. so it fits in with that narrative of one of the objectives. if anything else, qe has been massively beneficial as we have seen for risk assets. if we double down on that strategy with the pandemic, you

would anticipate the same type of response from risk assets, and that is what we seem. jonathan: dan, stay cool, and make sure you complain when it rains again tomorrow. good to catch up with you. i don't think this bond market has had a big test yet. i don't think this federal reserve has had a big test yet in the last month or so with this treasury market. let me just refined that a little bit more clearly. higher yields can happen if you get better economic growth. the federal reserve will come when you get those high yields and they pushed back because they don't want them to drift higher, and they need to come lower. i think it is easy to say at this stage of the economic recovery that the fed can pin the long end as well. this quite clearly anchored the front end. it is easier to say now that the fed can pin the long end because there's no pressure. when that pressure comes, if we get a pickup in real growth, that is where you get the test of the ability not only to anchor the front end, but to do something at the long end as well. lisa: this is a really important

point. they haven't had to spend as much of their own money to buy these bonds being sold by the u.s.. when they lose faith or when investors start to wonder whether the fed will be able to control longer-term yields based on inflation, based on growth, that is the test you are talking about. i thought your question was a very good one about 10 value outperform in an era of hinged treasury yields. there is a question of how low stocks can go before they become dividend plays, before they become income, before people start going to them for reasons other than capital appreciation typically given by higher yields and faster growth. jonathan: thanks, lisa. i'm not used to this. lisa: i genuinely thought it was a really good question. jonathan: i am used to this other guy on the other side of me. he doesn't usually say nice things like that, but thank you. i'm not tortured at all. he's back monday. coming up on this program, china beige book ceo leland miller.

within 500 down two, 0.2% of record highs coming into thursday. your jobless claims report, that is 20 minutes away. this is bloomberg. the first word news, i'm karina mitchell. gaveiden and kamala harris a preview of what their campaign will sound like. they made their first appearance as running mates. the event could end up being one of the few times the running mates campaign together. pandemic restrictions have limited biden's in person events. meanwhile, president trump can make his nomination acceptance speech from the white house lawn. that is according to a government advisory opinion. generally, u.s. government employees are barred from conducting political activities while in a government building. fannie mae and freddie mac plan to charge an additional fee on most mortgage refinance loans.

that thed freddie say fee is meant to mitigate risk in light of the pandemic. one group says it could cost the typical consumer $1400. in the u.k., prime minister boris johnson's government faces a coronavirus dilemma that could set the tone of the economy for years to come. if it withdraws support for jobs and wages too soon, it could tick the u.k. into an unemployment crisis. that would hurt a necessary restructuring. the international energy agency has cut forecast for global oil demand. if reduced estimates for every quarter through the end of 2021. fromtravel is suffering the pandemic. bloomberg has learned that it will be a series of bundles from

apple that let users subscribe to several services for a monthly price. music,dles will include fitness, news, and more. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm karina mitchell. this is bloomberg. ♪ berg. ♪

pres. trump: we did a phase one deal, and it was a wonderful deal. all of a sudden, it means very little. we view china differently than

we did a months ago. i don't know that we want to have a deal with china, to be honest with you. jonathan: the president of the united states on the deal with china. those talks will start later this week as we assess the progress of that phase i agreement between china and the u.s. let's get to the price action this thursday morning. in 12 minutes we will bring you jobless claims in america. equity futures down two on the s&p 500. euro-dollar stronger at $1.1833. yields higher into thursday morning, 0.68% is your 10 year yield. that's the story for sovereigns. lisa abramowicz on creditwatch. we had alphabet about a week or so ago, and this morning we have apple in the mix. lisa: apple coming out with a four-part dollar deal to go toward general corporate purposes. basically whatever they want. the question is, why would a big company cell debt, raise money

at a time when they have endless cash? the answer is because they can, and they can do it cheaply. jonathan: it is the 40 year portion i find fascinating for apple, and for tech firm and generals -- for tech firms in general. this is 40 year corporate credit. the story i keep going back to is a simple one. what did tech look like 20 years ago, 30 years ago? many of these names did not even exist, and yet there is a commitment from the creditor to say, 40 year, handed over. portionankly, the apple is substantially lower than that. the premium over government debt is less than that 1.5%. the issue is not necessarily logic. the issue is demand. right now, people want to lock in any yields they can get because they are preparing for very low yields for the very long term. jonathan: a little later this

week, there will be a conversation between the united states and china on the phase i agreement. we understand china would also like to bring in wechat and tiktok into the conversation as well. this is what "the wall street journal" reported this morning. u.s. than a dozen major multinational companies raise concern in a call with white house officials just yesterday about the potential broad scope and impact of mr. trump's executive order targeting wechat, set to take effect in the next month. on that call, a range of companies including apple and the walt disney company." joining us now, a man who understands this issue more than most, leland miller of china beige book. on this specific issue, where is this headed? leland: a lot of it depends on whether we see the trade deal last through the election. but on the tech side

specifically, the white house wants to do something. it wants to take ownership of the issue. it wants to push back on some very legitimate national security issues related to to talk and wechat -- related to tiktok and wechat. when you are talking about wechat, they just don't know how to pull it back, to restrict parts of it and not dramatically hurt u.s. companies like apple and others who use wechat e payment operation for a huge chunk of their sale. they want to be aggressive, but the jury is still out on which direction they are going to go on this. lisa: does this mean you expect them to pull back? do you expect they are going to put provisions within the ban that allow companies like apple to sell wechat on their apple store? what is it? istore, i like that.

leland: tiktok could end in the coming weeks if you see a deal. youat, i think the chance see a solution is very low. i think there's a chance this gets kicked out past the election. there are plenty of remedial actions where they can sort of tweak things at the margin. the more they get into this issue, the more they realize they don't understand the second and third order effects. they want to do broad anti-china action, but they are not prepared for the fallout. jonathan: a headline crossing saidloomberg that india is to be poised to ban huawei from 5g network trials. this is not just about tiktok and wechat. it is about china and a whole host of countries. do you think that their

ministration -- that the administration has handled china poorly? usand: they've done about poorly as you could do. enormous national security issue where countries are now becoming aware of just how dangerous it might be to integrate huawei into all of their new next-generation tele-communications. the u.s. has been pushing on this, but it wasn't until china really antagonized the entire universe in the aftermath of their covid hit that countries are really taking notice on this. this is something in which xi jinping has overplayed his cards on. this is just going in the wrong direction for china because they are not going to be able to pull this back if huawei gets cut off. lisa: the narrative over the past few months is that china will recover faster than the rest of the world from the pandemic because they have

clamped down harder and they had the virus first. is what you are saying that that is not necessarily the case because they are facing these other pressures due to some of their international trade policies? leland: they may recover faster and first, but recovery no longer means what people think it used to mean. if you are looking at month on month improvement, quarter on quarter improvement, you are seeing that in the pmi's. what you are not seeing his return to normalcy. our last data showed no on year growth whatsoever. that is not with the pmi's are showing either. don't realize the pmi's have no bearing on your on your trends. i think you are seeing the recovery partly because china was hit by covid first, so they are emerging fastest, but you're not seeing a real recovery. you've got all of these political and trade and technology tensions adding onto this. i would be hesitant in declaring

this a banner recovery story. jonathan: i love the pmi shade. that is such a bloomberg conversation. [laughter] i appreciate it. leland miller of the china beige book association, thank you very much. for the multinationals trying to operate, i think this is the challenge for them. how do they maintain a presence in a country like america with an increasingly progressive consumer base, and in a country like china with a repressive state running everything? for the likes of apple and the walt disney company, we are trying to keep one foot in both. microsoft trying to engineer that as well. i wonder if we are getting to that point where you have to pick a country that you want to be in, one over another, and not both. leland: if we are -- lisa: if we are getting to that point, wall street does not appear to be getting the message. you are seeing an expansion there. jonathan: hong kong, an important conversation coming

later. stephen engle catching up with a hong kong media tycoon. looking forward to that conversation later. from new york city this morning, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ." ♪

jonathan: from new york city, this is "bloomberg surveillance." live on bloomberg tv and radio alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. tom keene will be back next monday. with your economic data just crossing the bloomberg, let's bring in michael mckee. michael: looking at initial jobless claims. the numbers coming in much better than forecast. we thought we would go down to 1.1 million. for the first time in 21 weeks, we are below one million. 900 63,000 jobless claims last week. that is a decrease of 228,000 from the week before. the continuing claims number comes in 15,486,000. that is a decline from 16,107,000 the week before. a bit of a decline, the first

time we have seen that in quite some time. pandemic unemployment assistance, the extra assistance that goes out to those who are 488,622, that is a decline of almost 200,000 from the prior week. these are one week delay. the total number of people receiving jobless benefits of one sort or another falls to 28,000,002 hundred 57,995. from 31,323,000 july 18. the total number is from july 25, the last week of july, two weeks delayed. improvement all around in the jobless claims numbers, but you have to keep in mind these numbers are still extraordinarily inflated, the highest jobless claims numbers we ever saw before the pandemic, 625,000 in one week, and now we are still at 963,000. a big decline but still very huge. lisa: that is where i wanted to

go. the pace of the recovery. how quickly that number is going down. what you hear from the economists you speak with, the fed officials you speak with, and terms of the progress or the improvement of this labor market. michael: you are seeing people go back to work as cities and states open up. the issue has been how may people go back to work and find their job has been eliminated because the company is gone where they are sent back on furlough because the covid virus flared up again. it appears there are still a significant number of people in that state. we are seeing people starting to go back to work. it will be interesting to see how all of this figures into people's estimates for august employment this week, not last week. this is the week of the employment survey. we will see effect thursday, if we have made progress during this week that might give people hope. jonathan: the absolute numbers

are utterly terrible, but if you look at the trends these are improving, progress. news beet, would good bad news or would good news be good news? for this market good news is apparently no news. equity futures not moving at all. the 10-year treasury yield where they were. the dollar not moving much. there is a question we've been asking over the last several weeks, almost anticipating the data rolling over. yes the improvement is slow, but i wonder if the economic data is testing some people's premise that maybe this economy is more resilient than people have giving it credit for? michael: it may be. jobless claims are what everyone looks at. retail sales. the retail sales numbers went up last week, but other sales numbers have shown a flattening or decline. the opentable numbers for restaurants were down. by tsa numbers were down

about 200,000 yesterday. some numbers are good, some numbers are not so good, and some kind of flat. it is hard to get a total reading. as we were talking earlier, fed officials see the economy at stall speed, flying but not gaining altitude. jonathan: great to catch up. awesome work as always. 56 minutes away from the opening bell in new york. equity futures higher by about two points on the s&p 500, up about .1%. that is the story for the market and the economy. a positive surprise. let's get to ian lindgren. your thoughts on the trajectory of the recovery and what you are seeking the data right now. ian: when i take a look at the a pause inta, we see some of the improvement we have been seeing, which is troubling, and the reason it is troubling is because we are entering this period where the market will not trust the economic data, not

because of data collection issues, but rather because the recent spike in covid cases has not flowed through to the labor market. the august nonfarm payrolls report will be telling, and the market will be in a holding pattern until then, at least in treasury space. we see what is going on with the equity market. any seem to be trading off entirely different set of facts and expectations. lisa: it is important to bring up the idea there is pessimism baked into the rate markets. yields are so low not to because of a fed put, but because people have low expectations for the u.s. economy. there was not much of a market response to the better-than-expected unemployment report, but the 10 year yield did turn up, price down, yields higher for a fifth day in a row.

if we see a better-than-expected trend in the data, how high could the yields go? ian: it is important to keep in context that yesterday we had newaugust refunding option, 10 years, and we get new 30 years today. a bit of what is going on is option concession -- auction concession. if the data improves, there is nothing to keep a move toward the 75 basis point level in tens to occur over the next six to eight weeks. we do have constructive seasonals for treasuries between now and the middle -- jonathan: that is a seven basis point over two months. we are basically there already. ian: we are not going to 1%. jonathan: i agree with you. i understand what you're trying to say. i do not necessarily agree with the call. we are back in the range of the

last couple of months. the top end of the range, 90 basis points from the beginning of june. there is an idea some people have that somehow the fed can cap the long end and not just anchor the front end. what are your thoughts on that? ian: they are actively buying the treasuries further out the curve. qe creates structural demand. whether they can actually cap 10 year and 30 year yield using their monetary policy is the front end, that is an open question. an operation twister overweighting purchases on the curve would do it, and at this moment what is driving 10 year and 30 year yield is global growth and inflation expectations. uptick in -- an inflation comparable to what we saw yesterday that extends. that would be the ingredient to reprice. lisa: a lot of people would

agree with you. hsbc saying if the fed had not stepped in, treasury yields would be even lower than where they are now because growth would be that much slower, which brings me to the balance sheet. a lot of people, when the fed was originally ramping up its program, were expecting the balance street -- the balance sheet to get to $10 trillion. right now it is around $7 trillion. have you ratcheted back your expectations of how many assets the fed will want to buy before year end in order to support markets? has at this point, the fed told us the face they will continue -- the pace they will continue purchasing and that does keep a target growing in trillions by 2021 on the table. i do not think what is playing out now in the real economy is giving the fed any confidence they will need to buy less. as the economic data continues

to unfold, we will probably see a risk for an expansion of some of the existing programs rather than a contraction, unless there is a decidedly positive turn i do not think anyone is expecting. lisa: given where borrowing is the fed doing anything to help the economy? ian: the fed is trying to push investors further out the yield curve, further out the credit curve, and further out the capital structure. that is why we are seeing equities perform the way they are, and ideally that provides an incentive for firms to re backe to expand and hi some of the people laid off. recall we lost 25 million jobs. we've only gained back 35% of that. there is still a lot of work left to go. theyed has made it clear

are ok with bubbles at this point given the reality is the need to reemploy the labor force. jonathan: great to catch up. of bmo capital markets. the data in america coming in better-than-expected. the number of americans applying for unemployment all in below one million for the first time since the pandemic began, perhaps telling you more about where we have been than where we are. equity futures turning positive. that is the story of the data and the price action. let me get you up to speed on what is happening in washington, d.c. betweennge spat secretary mnuchin and nancy pelosi about who said what and when. this is from secretary mnuchin in a statement issued last night. "her statement is not an accurate reflection of our conversation. she made it unclear she was unwilling to meet unless we

agreed in advance to her proposal costing at least $2 trillion. the democrats have no interest in negotiating." -- "theker pelosi mnuchin statement is strange." that is basically it. [laughter] i have no idea where it is going. as far as i understand speaking to kevin cirilli in washington, no talks scheduled today either. lisa: it is finger-pointing. this is trying to characterize the other player as being the bad guy. that is what we are seeing. the tone that this is taking is getting -- my children might say that. jonathan: you want to call it childish. it is about the economic data. the economy is looking more resilient than people thought it would into august. many thought it would rollover. jobless claims numbers are terrible on a historic basis,

but through the direction of travel, that is where there is some hope this would continue. i the s&p, we are higher four points. from new york city, this is "bloomberg surveillance." karina: democrats are showing some enthusiasm for joe biden's running mate. the presidential dominique says the -- the presidential nominee says the campaign raised $26 million after he selected kamala harris to run with them. meanwhile, president trump ramped up his effort to open. he met at the white house with parents, educators, and researchers who argued for in person learning. the president says it is ridiculous some districts have students intent in person some days and online other days. defense secretary mark esper appears to be on his way out. bloomberg has learned president trump said privately he intends

to replace as per after the election. the president is said debate with asper -- frustrated with on a numberh esper of issues, including he pushed back against deploying troops to protest. america's carmakers have been a remarkable move towards pre-pandemic production. according to mobile data collector, foot traffic appears to have never gotten back to february levels at some of the biggest auto making facilities. toyota says it will not go back to normal at some time. there are also issues at suv plants. the news is almost all bad for landlords in manhattan. rents plunged by the most in almost nine years. according to appraiser miller samuel, real estate rents were down 10%. vacancy rate climbed to a record 4.3%. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on quicktake by bloomberg, powered by more than 2700

journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. mitchell.a this is bloomberg. ♪

>> $200 a week unemployment insurance is a disaster. $300 is tough. $400 might keep us on the putting we are at today.

jonathan: jerrod woodward of bank of america on the plans and washington, d.c., or the lack thereof. coming up on bloomberg tv, conversation he do not want to miss. mike wilson of morgan stanley. looking forward to that conversation. lisa: i am looking forward to listening to it. we will be tuning in. i am looking forward to talking about initial public offerings. this has been one of the hottest times we've seen for people access equity markets since the dot com bubble. kathleen smith joining us now. we talked earlier this year when all of the ipo markets ground to a halt in the face of the escalating pandemic. withe have at the opposite airbnb lining up and saying they will come to market. is there an end to this appetite or do you see it continuing to paper path to more volume ahead? even the pandemic

cannot hold it down. march, we are now even with last year. july has been the busiest month and augustce 2014 will be the busiest month since 2013. we are on pace to have the highest levels in five years and may hit a record of some of these big unicorns like airbnb and doordash go public. toare seeing a rush of deals get done. a couple of reasons. ahead of the election the market can get jittery and that has historically slowed down issuance, and that we are seeing an interesting rush of chinese companies trying to go public before some changes are implemented. lisa: talk a little bit more about that. you are seeing a rush of chinese companies trying to get in for the u.s. cracks down on their auditing practices. is that right? kathleen: that is right.

year, all -- next will have to comply with u.s. auditing oversight. every company has to do. this -- we had given to these chinese adrs. last night katie holdings, one holdings,gest -- kd one of the largest residential real estate transaction, tencent billion,aised over $2 one of the largest chinese adr offerings at two years. that takes us above the range today and we have seen other company's lineup. a chinese electric car company. a peer-to-peer lender, very large ipo and try to get through this window before new listings will have to comply. i think there may be an actual

restriction on new listings that do not come out with this extra oversight required for all companies. lisa: there is a broader question here as companies raise to get into equity markets. they sense the iron is hot. they want to strike. are they getting valuations that are too high? pushed enoughs investors into riskier assets that things are getting frothy, even at a time of economic distress? kathleen: it certainly helps to have the fit on your back with low interest rates. low interest rates help growth companies, and growth companies are the bread and butter of the ipo market. we had interesting things with the ipo market. about half of the dollars raised -- the rest are regular ipos. we know the returns on the regular way ipos have been very .trong

our renaissance ipo etf tracks an index that has significantly outperformed the overall market. that is because the regular way ipos are being priced, more reasonably, it is always relevant, the market is frothy in general. the facts that are out there with inability to raise capital and thend pool purchase what we think are the riskier companies that cannot get through the regular ipo market. that is becoming outlet or large moneyies that do not earn that would be hard to value in the regular ipo market. those kinds of companies are reminiscent of the internet bubble of 1999. our data shows investors should be cautious about looking at facts. the average performance after a merger underperforms the regular ipo market.

we have an interesting internet bubble happening with specs. not know people who do it is a special purpose acquisition company. bill ackman getting involved. they take a pool of money and set it aside and invest in treasuries, and then when they find an acquisition they want they get some of the shareholders to vote on it or otherwise redeem their money. they take a company public, but at a fixed price. kathleen, given the fact we have one in five dollars being raised market, don the ipo you think these are set to underperform or are you staying away from them? for us as an investment manager and managing companiestf operated over the largest ones that have come out into the market over the last two years. we are focused on that. the spacs do not come an

operating company for almost two years. we do not include them. our existing products -- our conclusions right now with spacs 's it is not one of those buy and hold places to be. the average performance, we are getting two out of five, if not dollars. spac there is negative performance of the ones that have made acquisitions for all of them compared to positive performance for regular ipos. investors get very excited with the moonshot, like trapped kings, up 200%, virgin galactica, they have been the exceptions but not the rules. it will be interesting to follow them, especially as they go through their acquisitions. lisa: kathleen smith, thank you so much for being with us.

kathleen smith of renaissance capital. in the markets we are seeing a left following the better-than-expected jobless data, still a pretty dire headline number based on history, but below one million individuals for the first time it two weeks. the nasdaq leading the charge. the s&p also up. you are seeing 10 year yields pick up. they had been lower earlier ahead of the 30 year option at 1:00 eastern. we will get 24 early of 30 year debt sold. the euro getting slightly stronger versus the dollar. vix coming down. later this morning, we will be getting word of jetblue's focus going forward. what is the future of travel in an era of coronavirus and people concerned about getting sick when they go on planes? we will be speaking with robin hayes coming up. this is "bloomberg surveillance"

on bloomberg radio and television. tom keene will be back next week. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ from new york city for

our viewers worldwide, good morning, good morning. "the countdown to the open" starts right now. pretty futures turning positive. within a whisker of all-time highs, 50% rally off the march low taking us back towards the record, rally fueled by unprecedented stimulus driven by tech stocks seemingly minting money when most of us were still trapped at home. are not up 24% this year because the economy was looking good. the kbw bank index is down because it was not. with the economy recovering from an ugly contraction, washington is not feeling the heat in the same way, even if it should be. we face an impasse in the nation's capital with politicians continuing to do what politicians do best. democrats blame the republicans. terms of the negotiations or lack thereof, i