more --'s on much there's honestly much more rationality in the equity market when we look at the surface. >> the fed needs help. the fed needs a partner, and the partner's fiscal policy. >> this dollar weakness is a growing concern. fear of instability doesn't seem to be on the cards. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowizc. >> -- for our audience worldwide come alive on bloomberg tv and radio. we don't have jonathan ferro or tom keene. jon is off, i believe daytrading. tom is spending some quality time, possibly buying a suit. we are reprising the

relationship as slackers take time off. interesting to see just as far as going back to work, we are getting some data out of macy's, showing better-than-expected results. the loss not as bad as people expected. are your banker friends getting back to work? paul: schools in many new jersey towns are opening again. i don't know about the suits, though. i think work from home is through the end of the year at the very least. lisa: it looks like tom keene and jonathan member -- and jonathan ferro have not gotten the memo with everyone back to work. very much in focus is jobs. 8:15 or later this morning new york time, we get u.s. august adp employment change. bloomberg economics saying it will show a modest gain before things start to sour a little bit more. 10:00 a.m., july factory orders, as well as durable goods orders. interesting to see if we get any

sign of capital investment by companies. at 2:00 p.m., the fed releasing its september beige book, called the beige book because it is usually boring, although this one should be a lot more interesting because we may get a read of how things start to come back more than people expected as the virus counts decline. this is the great unknown, the labor market. no one can get a sense of how much buying power the consumer really has. paul: we saw some good manufacturing data yesterday, and that is great to see a good rebound, but of course it comes back to the consumer. labor, the unemployment rate north of 10%, so it is really a big issue. we have to get folks back to work, and that has to be a big issue for retailers and all things consumer. lisa: not a big issue for the stock market, which seems to hit another record high. we are looking at spx futures, 3549, slightly

positive. you are seeing a little bit of a lift to 10 year yields, currently 0.6868%. the euro is weakening off of the seminal $1.20 mark it yesterday, the strongest in about two years. in stoxx 600 also gaining the msci world index. interesting to see oil slowly creeping higher, a little off the earlier highs from this morning, $42.96 a barrel. inventories are starting to get lower in the united states. gold coming off its highs. going forward, the question i have really is, what is driving the rally? the narrative has been identified by this idea of low real yields, highly negative, fed surprising interest rates, a recovery trade.

a bet on fiscal support hasn't come yet. ,enjamin mandel of jp morgan global strategist of multi-asset solutions, what do you buy most about this equity rally? there's no one thing, but it is an array of things, many of which you mentioned. lower for the foreseeable future. it is probably early cycle type of economic dynamics. you mentioned a few of them in employment and. it is a multifaceted -- and capex. it is a multifaceted story in that you have a few areas of strength, and the consumer on most mechanically is going to have a huge q3 coming off of a very weak q2. it is also the housing market being strong.

finally, if the economy is doing well, well supported by monetary policy, the balance of risk here is fairly favorable in the sense so far as the virus could emerge and pass into further restrictions, you also have plenty of upside risk as well, so the balance of downside and upside is when on which it is consistent maintaining a risk on puncture -- risk on posturing portfolios. we measure between overweight .quities and credit a sense, ann insurance policy against growth being lower than you expect, and also fully leverages the backstop being provided by

policymakers. lisa: maybe this is a dumb question, but how can you reconcile the idea that you have double-digit unemployment rates, a consumer that has been absolutely pummeled by lack of employment, and yet we are relying on the consumer to drive this economy out of the recession? how is that not contradictory? benjamin: it's not contradictory in the sense that when you look at the standard fundamentals for consumers, they are not bad at all. thinking about level of atmployment as you mentioned a high, but the flows into employment are also extremely high. thinking about those job gains as fueling the income of households and that being the key variable in figuring out what is going to happen with consumer spending in the future, that is hugely important. the other side of it is dry powder. how much spending power do households have in reserve? that is still quite elevated in

terms of the household saving rate. part of that is precautionary savings, but a lot of it is latent spending power for savings from the early parts of the pandemic, and part of it the fact that fiscal policy in its initial stages was extremely effective at filling the whole in-house hold incomes. whether you get another trench of fiscal support or not, whether it maintains current levels or not, you are going to see that saving rate drift down and fuel additional consumer spending. paul: so if we are able to look towards the other side of this pandemic, and we got the fed backstop there, what are some sectors we should be looking at where everyone has been in the faang stocks. where else should we be looking? benjamin: you really want leveraged to things that are going right in the world. so the thing that has been extremely pronounced is the redistribution of economic video

from services into goods. think about u.s. retail sales just as an example, but it is a global phenomenon those are up 5% year-over-year in nominal terms, but a massive dispersion between the different categories of spending. you have your eating and tricking establishments, your clothing stores. those are still down by 20% or 25%. you have your online retail, non-store retailers, among others up by percent, 25%. so the shift from services into goods is one with think is going to be persistent and one we think is actually more noticeable than the overall headline gains in economic activity. where are you getting leveraged to goods industries? we think at the global level, it is highly levered that trend. so em equities as an overweight within our global equity basket,

europe as well to a lesser extent, but certainly one of those cyclical markets exposed to global trade. as we configure our equity overweight, with think about emerging markets, europe, and of course, the u.s. no one wants to be underweight the u.s. in almost any scenario, as being the three that stand out at the top of the list and a fewe balance, but also characteristics in the u.s. market as well. paul: we had the federal reserve and central banks around the world really providing a backstop for risk assets. how about our friends in washington? how much does this market need another round of fiscal stimulus? is almosti think it entirely monetary here. whatnk fiscal stimulus obviously be nice to have. i don't think it is a need to have to sustain the rally. just think about the magnitude

and some of the gravity of the message we received last week. what are monetary policy makers in the business of doing? are they in the business of closing spreads and ensuring that markets work, or are they in the business of reflation? are they actually trying to offset the long-standing asymmetry in their goals, trying to get inflation and policy rates and growth back up to normal levels? not only that, but above their normal levels over the course of the cycle. the fed announced last week on a big he was sleep that they are in the business -- last week unambiguously that they are in the business of reflation, and we might be on the precipice of rates being lower for an extremely long time. we think that has really been driving a lot of the market action. if you were to just account for the equity rally in the u.s., it is almost entirely driven by -- you can account for it with policy growth.

pricing is not quite back to normal yet. lisa: ben mandel of j.p. morgan asset management, thank you so much for being with us. when we talk about low rates for a long time, i think about my son, who yesterday asked me for interest on his savings. he said, how about 2%? i'm not a junk-bond. that's what you get if you go invest in junk bonds. no, you're going to get 0.90%, and you are going to be really happy about that. we will talk more about that with greg peters, coming up, had a portfolio strategy. this is going to be important if we end up with a federal reserve that is really in the business of pushing rates lower and keeping them love. why not buy everything? that seems to be the message stockswall street, with indicated higher yet again for a new high on the spf, as well as spx, as well as

the nasdaq. macy's shares surging after not closing quite as much money as expected. york, "bloomberg surveillance" worldwide, this is bloomberg. ritika: with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. treasury secretary steven mnuchin says the economy urgently needs more stimulus to rebound from the coronavirus. he says he restarted talks with nancy pelosi to try to get negotiations going again. senate republicans have been putting together a narrow $500 billion really package. policy once a much larger deal -- billion relief deal. pelosi wants a much larger deal. president trump went to kenosha, wisconsin after police shot a black man in the back follow and attended arrest.

two people were killed during a protest. a national poll shows joe biden leading president trump 49% to 41%. it shows biden doing well among women, especially suburban women. biden also has strong support from nonwhite voters and those who live in large areas. a warning from the pentagon, officials say china is close to joining the u.s. and russia as the only nations capable of missiles onclear air, land and sea. in japan, it paid to outgoing prime ministers shinzo abe has -- in japan, and aid to outgoing prime minister shinzo abe has indicated his bid for the role. he served as a back enforcer during abe's nearly eight years in power. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake,

powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

pres. trump: you could take the aren'tof kenosha that

here and that aren't protesting, but they want change also. they want law and order. they want a great police force. they want people that are going to keep them safe, where there houses aren't broken into, where they are not raped and murdered. that is what they want. speakingsident trump on the circumstances in kenosha. he is really focused on the law & order message. very hard as he tries to win over some swing voters, especially in suburban areas. according to polls following the argan see, as well as the latest -- the rnc, as well as the latest up evils in several cities -- latest up evils in several cities -- latest upheavals in several cities, he is trailing joe biden. are we headed towards a contested election? kevin: first and foremost, this

is all about kenosha county and counties like across the country. in 2016, candidate trump was able to meet the money hillary clinton -- the nominee hillary clinton by just a couple of thousand votes. it's the first time that has happened in more than four presidential cycles, where a republican was able to win kenosha county, a swing county and the battleground state of wisconsin. the second point i would make is that absolutely this race is tightening, and in terms of the increase in mail-in voting as a result of the pandemic and the public discourse surrounding the issue, could mean that we might not have a result on november 3, and that we might have to wait a couple of days or even weeks after the election. we won't know until november 3. but the expectation now is that this could not be a result decided -- i don't want to see a result decided, a result counted on election night. lisa: kenosha is the fourth biggest city in wisconsin.

walkie, madison -- behind milwaukee, madison, and green bay. how do we get a sense of how those swing voters are moving, and where they are going to befall? kevin: it is taking everything in me to not make a joke about the packers, so i am going to move on. [laughter] lisa: it's ok, i can take it. carry-on. kevin: i think southwestern pennsylvania, conor lamb country, as well as parts of inland florida, these are parts where the republicans over performed in the 2016 race, and where the data collection with regards to polls really becomes interesting because for all the criticism that the polls received in 2016, it was really less about the polls being inaccurate and more that their dataset did not include many of the voters who showed up. think of those long lines at the trump rallies from 2016, and everyone wondering whether or

not those individuals would turn out on election day. they did. the trump campaign was tracking them, getting data from those massive rallies. the pollsters were not able to find them. that is why it's incredible difficult to look at these particular polls and say that national polls are actually going to have clout on november 3. paul: we kind of know where president trump is coming down in terms of his election messaging. how about joe biden? what is the message going to be from his campaign between now and election day? kevin: you saw this in virtual real-time earlier this week, as you have joe biden out there saying that he is not a socialist, that he is trying to calm a in his words, he'll the country, fight for the soul of the country. i think the question becomes something that was even more nuanced and really important for when he went to conor lamb country in southwestern pennsylvania and promised that he wouldn't end fracking.

this is where the policy is really boiling under the surface , even as kenosha county and portland, oregon play out on the news networks. for him to go into pennsylvania and say no fracking, that is him trying to pick up votes in the rustbelt portion of the state, as well as outside philadelphia, to say that he's not going to be some democratic-socialist green new deal. however, you look at the results of the massachusetts senate primary last night, where you've got senator ed markey beating a centrist kennedy, and it looks like a shift in the democratic party is virtually playing out even in massachusetts. paul: you talk about the swing voters being key to this election, as it is for many elections. what do you think are the key themes swing voters are focusing on? is it the pandemic? is it law and order? is it the economy? all of the above? kevin: the newcomer at "business

week" crushed it with their report. it is brilliant reporting. but in terms of the issues from the polls that have come out, you've got the economy and covid. and then of course, inequality, or as republicans would describe it, law & order. but on the issue of the economy and covid, they are on a collision course to be treated as one particular issue. nonpartisan group of scientists and engineers submitted their guidelines to the government about who want to have access to the vaccines. they said that medical professionals, government employees, and front-line personnel, followed by the elderly and other groups in medical need of vaccinations, ought to have them first. the reason i bring this up is because the october surprise, as a vaccine likely now heads into develop it, really could be about the rollout of such a vaccine. publicans are working around the clock for this, and democrats

are providing oversight on this particular issue. the rollout of a vaccination is going to be a massive economic, as well as a health issue come the debates in october. lisa: are people thinking about thinking about talking about maybe proposing some fiscal package? where are we on that? kevin: i've got nothing new to report. [laughter] lisa: that says it all, kevin. kevin: they are talking, telephone tag with speaker pelosi yesterday. the democrats say they want stimulus. they are still $1 trillion plus a part. lisa: that pretty much sums it up. what's the update? there is none. kevin cirilli, thank you so much. bloomberg chief washington correspondent. we always appreciate your insight. that is essentially yet. everyone is saying that without that fiscal support, we are not going to get an ongoing recovery. we are counting on the consumer, and there is no deal. there's no even talking about

talking about proposing it. paul: we haven't gotten there. we thought we would get something before the summer recess. when that didn't happen, that really casted into a big question here. if you talk to most strategists, they say we absolutely need more fiscal stimulus going into the back half of this year. lisa: we are getting a ton of fed speak today. we will be hearing from a host of fed officials, beating the , saying we need washington to step up. fiscal support will be what really drives jobs. in the meantime, we are going to be looking at a record high every day on u.s. equities at the same time we look at unemployment rates still at 10.2%. that is higher than the highs of the last recession. coming up here in about 50 minutes, we are getting those adp reports, expected to be a little bit worse than some people had expected, cooling a little bit, but possibly the last gains before a really tough

time. coming up, we will take a look at the no interest regime we are living in. my son is very sad to learn about it. greg peters is joining us, pgim head of multisector and fixed income strategy. this is bloomberg. ♪

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lisa: "bloomberg surveillance," welcome back. tom keene and jonathan ferro both playing hooky today ahead of the labor day weekend. because i amough, joined by the one and only paul .weeney, my former cohost and colleague thanks for being here -- my former cohost and colleague. thanks for being here. paul: a lot of the schools in new jersey, they are going back to school and kind of doing a hybrid approach. hoping for the best, but my son reported that everybody was on their best behavior, wearing their masks, social distancing, so we are hoping for the best lisa: i will say -- for the best. lisa: i will say, i have never seen children so excited to go back to school in my life.

you are seeing futures indicate another record high for the s&p and nasdaq today, if it holds. we are looking at s&p to the up 65 basis5, points. euro off of its $1.20 mark, the highest we saw versus the dollar in two years. 10 year yields just leading up, but barely showing that control that there will not be inflation, and if there is, the fed will push down those rates as quickly as they possibly can. meanwhile, you are seeing crude rise to $43 a barrel based on the idea that we are getting some kind of drawdown in the inventories in the united states. joining us now is gregory peters, pgim head of fixed and scum -- fixed income and multi-it asset -- and multi-asset strategy. when you look at what we are seeing right now with yields, is

it correct to say that they are so low, because of a belief in the fed put, that they are going to go and buy and suppress yields if we get inflation? or is it that bond traders are saying hopes of inflation are inflated themselves? yields are right where they are? gregory: i think it is more of the latter. thank you for having me. the yield market, the environment for yields is basically responding to the underlying growth dynamics and underlying inflation dynamics. so all of the hubbub over the fed change around the 2% symmetry is important, but it doesn't change the fundamental fact that you are not seeing any real inflation. inflation expectations are anchored by actual inflation, and the fed has been undershooting for quite some time. then we had this big shock to march, so it is coming off the bottom, but for inflation and growth to be at a

sustainable level, i just don't see it, so i think the bond market is spot on. if anything, it is too generous in terms of the forecast for where inflation and growth will be over the next 2, 3, 5, 10 years. lisa: if that is correct, doesn't it seem sort of contradictory that people are going into the most levered to growth sectors, the lowest rated junk bonds at a time when bond markets are screaming we are not getting growth going forward? gregory: this is the moral hazard offshoot of it all, in that when rates are so low, when real rates are negative, it totally changes the discounting game. it changes the value of each and every cash flow in the terminal value of those assets, so it pushes everything up. with money sloshing around so freely, these companies that are soe levered get a lifeline,

the risk is actually less, but it is not a direct link. it is indirect, but this is all part of the program where you are forcing investors into riskier assets, and that is why the high-yield bond market, or the junk bond market, has done so well, and equities have done so well. it is the alternative of zero, so it is either more risky, you'll be type of plays, or zero in the bank, in real terms negative. paul: if we are going into the high-yield market, taking more and more risk, talk to us about the quality. what are you seeing across your portfolio? gregory: credit quality is an interesting animal in a way. we have seen a real decay in the first quarter because cash flows are hit quite hard. since that time, we have seen cash flows recover from the bottom. you have seen a lot of debt

financing. a lot of that has been positive debt financing, where they are taking out higher coupon, shorter maturity debt, but adding a kind of longer, lower coupon type of debt. on balance, that is quite positive. it not only gives companies a better liquidity profile, but a better credit profile. the pass versus destination, and the destination think,it, the will, i continued to improve over time as companies still have their back against the wall. they are operating in this growth environment with very little inflation and very little growth, so the opportunity just really isn't available to them. cap ontually serves as a animal spirits on the corporate side, allowing corporate balance sheets to repair. from aink you are moving very precarious place into a much better place, and that is what you get rewarded for is a credit investor. paul: if i want to get rewarded

as a credit investor, what are some of the sectors i should be looking at? should i be looking more on the risk curve, maybe into the high-yield sector of the market? gregory: to me, the most interesting opportunity in the markets writ large today is what i call this crossover corridor. the bbb space in investment bbde corporates in the space in high-yield. it allows that opportunity to really present itself. to me, that is a real area of opportunity. that is the area of focus for us. if you look at it from evaluation standpoint, it is still very attract vis-a-vis a corporates and bb corporates. the other end of the spectrum, and a lot of attention has been on ccc's. i frankly think it is really difficult to have a call on

ccc's that is idiosyncratic. at the same time, i think that is where the opportunity from a credit selection standpoint is going to be going forward, so there is real focus there as well. lisa: focus on the ccc's, focus on the bbb's. i am looking right now. the yield you are getting on bbb debt right now, 2.41%. that is unheard of. that is a treasury yield. that is the average yield of bbb debt, just above the yield that my son asked for on his savings, which i said no way because that is way too high of a rate, though i caved anyway. what is the hazard here that you're just going to get penalized if you are wrong? is it worth going straight into stocks at some point and not having to deal with the interest-rate risk? if you are betting on stocks and interest rates, why bother with the in-between? gregory: i do think that is what is happening. investors are seeing that opportunity and say, wait, look,

i can actually be and equities at the same time as the yields, as a high-yield bond or investment grade corporate, so i think that is happening. but there is a different risk profile. at the end of the day, i think the answer is both. income,tors who need although it is a lot less income then what we were accustomed to five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, it is still a source of income that savers desperately need. one thing we didn't touch on that is important that drives inflation in the level of interest rates and drives growth is the demographic story. the demographic story will continue to weigh on those factors and continue to allow fixed income to flourish because savers on an increasing rate need that, so i don't see that changing. if anything, i see it becoming

more acute over time. lisa: i hear you and other people come on this show and say that this multitude of factors is leading to the everything rally. could anything torpedo it? gregory: there's lots of things that could torpedo it for sure. there's been lots of talk this morning around the fiscal story, and i do think the fiscal story is important and has provided a real backstop and even a tail end, but there's a limit to that story. congress is trying to hash out a new package at a time when you are looking at deficits that we haven't seen since world war ii, coupled with the fact that you aren't going to see the same type of growth coming out of world war ii like you will today, does make you want to pause and reflect on what you are doing. there is a limit to how much you can do here, so there is all this comfort globally around

debt levels, and at some point, it will be too much. so we do have to watch out for that, and it is a scary story in a way because you don't know until you know. no one knows what the actual are that serve as the tipping points, but we have to be cognizant of the ever lurking risk. lisa: greg peters of pgim, thank you so much for your insights. i've got to say, very hard to teach your kids about savings when they get nothing on it, and i do start hearing conversations like let's just bet on stocks. i am not going to try to count for my son. i will not do it. but how do you teach about fiscal responsibility and saving? paul: growing up, it was putting your money into a a savings account, and he would get a certain interest rate. lisa: and a toaster. paul: now you have to explain about negative interest rates. my son who is in high school asked me, and i'm not even sure

after 20 minutes i was able to explain it to him. but that is the world we live in. lisa: i've heard some people have proposed taking a cookie from them, taking a bite, and giving it back. other people say, just charge for maintenance, as well as rent and food, and you will have more of a sense. . right now in markets, you are definitely seeing that lead higher in the everything rally, with people saying that things are not high enough yet. the idea that as earnings come out better than expected, even with macy's, one of the most beaten up stocks, their shares are higher in premarket trading after still reporting a loss of more than $200 million, but a lot less than people had expected. the euro we getting a bit against the dollar, so we can't decry the death of the dollar just yet. to --r yield higher 0.0113%.

from new york, this is bloomberg. with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. it was a record-setting month for joe biden and the democratic national committee. bloomberg has learned they will report raising more than $350 million in august, the most ever in one month. the trump campaign hasn't announced numbers for august yet. it is a victory for the democratic party's progressive wing in massachusetts. senator ed markey defeated congressman joe kennedy in a hotly contested senate primary. markey was backed by progressive congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. kennedy is the first member of his well-known political dynasty to lose a race in massachusetts. president trump claims thousands more people have died from the coronavirus in china then the government admits. indidn't give any evidence

an interview with fox news. the president says the chinese death toll is really in the tens of thousands. the trump administration will use quarantine rules to prevent an eviction crisis. the cdc plans to temporarily halt even actions for renters -- halt evictions for renters earning no more than $99,000 a year. congress put evictions on hold, but that expired when no agreement was reached on another coronavirus deal. in brazil, the government has been handing out so much cash in response to the pandemic, poverty is approaching a historic low. have 30% of the population been getting $110 a month. that makes it brazil's most ambitious social program ever. one university says the percentage of people below the poverty line has fallen to a 16 year low. the question is, how long can president jair bolsonaro keep up those payments?

global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> it could be that by the dip mentality, especially if we are

looking at a stronger year-end and vaccine solutions come to fruition. -- buy thee dip, dip, buy what dip? that is the question, especially as we look at the big tech names that seem to go higher at every turn. are they worth their weight in gold? in other words, has the rally been justified? ivan find seth -- ivan feinseth joining us now, cio of tigris financial partners. results haveancial been driven by the incredible efforts of fed chair powell. i think chairman powell single-handedly saves the world, pumping tremendous amounts of liquidity into the financial markets, which caused other central bank owes -- central

bankers around the world to do the same. that has been a powerful driver of the recovery, and the fact that i believe in the resiliency and fortitude of the human spirit, that we will come back from many bad situations. innovation has led this recovery, and it has been led by the tech stocks, which have empowered the ability to make the shift to support a remote and dispersed workforce, as an example. lisa: i get that, and it all makes sense. and then you see things like tesla, where they do a stock split, and their shares go infinitely higher. they go up by 12%, even though you're basically just changing a five dollar bill into five ones, which shouldn't make a stock more valuable. you see a similar type of apple.-- of move in

ivan: i think apple deserves its valuation. we have a tremendous catalyst coming up in the launch of the 5g enabled iphone 12. that will kick off a tremendous super cycle because many have been waiting to upgrade to the high-speed 5g enabled phones, and there's going to be a huge pent-up demand is the average iphone in-service today is over five years old. that will drive a new upgrade cycle and apple phones, along with apple's focus on increasing their services revenue and offering more and more services. entertainment, gaming, payment, shopping. that will enable them to further monetize the 1.5 billion installed user base. paul: when i was in business school learning about markets, one of the things i learned is that if you want to have a healthy market, you need to have a breadth across a wide swath of

stocks and sectors. we are absolutely not seeing that in this market. how concerned are you about that in terms of the lack of breadth in this market? ivan: that is correct. it has been a very narrowly driven rally, primarily by tech stocks. but technology drives our economy forward. it is not unusual that they have been leading the market and increasingly become a dominant part of the economy. two things are going to happen. market is forward-looking, and it is protecting that we will see a broadening out. that we will see improvements in the industrial sector and the consumer sector, which we are seeing. there is a positive case of economic data that shows the manufacturing sector is improving. this gradual improvement in consumer sentiment, so the consumer outlook is improving. retail is improving. restaurants where they can. we saw a huge jump in retail sales when stores opened.

you saw people going to restaurants when they could, when restaurants started to open with outdoor dining. so there is pent-up demand, and i think you will see this broadening out. the other thing driving the market is optimism that we will at a vaccine, hopefully least available by the end of the year. , three three companies partnerships scheduled go into trials sometime in october. that is the one thing that will get us over the pandemic is a vaccine. type ofn get some approval by the end of the year and ramp up production at the beginning of next year, we will see a tremendous recovery, and the market will have correctly predicted the turnaround. plus outside of the faang stocks that have been driving this market, where do you see some opportunity here if we are able to look toward the other 2021?erhaps sometime in

ivan: i think you will see a bounce back in the out of stocks. autozone is a tremendous play. -- autos are a truman display. mary barra was asked if she would spin off the electric division. she said it was not off the table. so general motors will be an incredible electric vehicle play. and the cruise industry, these stocks were decimated by no fault of their own. the cruise industry in january was looking at a record year for 2020, and was decimated, and they are doing everything possible to put in place the when they safely sale are allowed to start to sail again. companies like norwegian, my

number one pick in the cruise industry. i still like a lot of the tech withs, including nvidia, their announcement yesterday of their new high-speed graphic cards. others are qualcomm and skyworks solutions, key apple suppliers. is a powerful investing theme. the recovery of the consumer sector will be a powerful investing theme. and i believe they will recover very strongly. lisa: just 20 seconds, how high could devaluation of amazon get? it is now 1.7 5 trillion dollars. what is the peak, and your view? ivan: i have been recommending amazon for some time. i don't really use price targets, but they are just incredibly efficient in their delivery fulfillment and logistics products.

they do support a lot of retail. they are the biggest cloud retail supplier, which has andled the remote workforce distributed workforce. they are getting into health care. lisa: that was 20 seconds, ivan. [laughter] we will have you back to talk about amazon. a lot of people saying they could see a path lower, but they are not willing to sell their amazon shares. thanks for being with us. really appreciated. feinseth ofvan tigress financial partners. ivan: the winners keep winning, and i think it is a crowded trade, but any trade that has worked. lisa: coming up, we will hear from steve chiavarone. .erhaps he has the same view the federated portfolio manager

joining us on another day where we will likely see a new high for the, new highs with the nasdaq, with the leadership broadening out beyond the big tech to some of the more beaten up sectors, including macy's. from new york, this is "bloomberg surveillance." ♪ give you my world ♪

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>> there's much more rationality happening in the equity market when we look the surface. -- look beneath the surface. >> the fed needs help. the fed needs a partner, and the partner is fiscal policy. >> the dollar we is is a growing concern. >> the only reason not to be pragmatic is fear of stability, which doesn't seem to be in the cards. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowizc. lisa: good morning, everyone. from new york city, for our audience worldwide, this is "bloomberg surveillance,"