theyl blend right in for a natural, effortless look. call in the next five minutes and when you buy 500 strands, you get 500 strands free. call right now. (upbeat music) >> the v-shaped recovery path looks very much secure. >> a multiyear bear market in cyclicality is probably over. >> markets just go back to what really drives them. >> central banks and governments are in this together. >> we need support for the economy, both from monetary and fiscal policy, and monetary policy has already done a huge amount. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. good morning, everyone. "bloomberg surveillance." thrilled you are with us here.

14 days to the election. it is a tuesday october. obviously. lettingpreme court pennsylvania go after that election to count ballots. we've got lots of politics to talk about, and extort an area markets after the drop yesterday that we saw. how much do you think link yesterday's 700 point down drop to stimulus? jonathan: not me, but i think other people might make that link. i think if you want to make that inconsistency an because treasury yields climbed. if you think all of this stimulus was going to drive yields higher, then stimulus talks pulling apart would mean lower yields, higher yields. i think the temptation is to take every single piece of price action and draw a line back down to d.c. from wall street. israelcretary mnuchin in

for the important siding of the united arab emirates, israel, and united states of america. he will have a call with pelosi. pelosi is going to be briefed by westin later on bloomberg. lisa: i am trying to understand mitch mcconnell's role in all of this. what kind of agreement will pelosi come to with mnuchin that will actually pass? it is not passing in the senate. it is coming to some sort of understanding. chance is, i don't know. i just don't feel like it is not likely at this point given how close we are. tom: we welcome you across the nation on bloomberg radio and bloomberg television. thrilled with the response we have been getting. mail iou for the hate have received in the last several days. chris verrone, very optimistic. a doom and gloom guy emailing me in and saying, this guy is nuts.

yields did not flinch yesterday afternoon. jonathan: they didn't, but they haven't done much for a long time. they peaked in early june. first week of june, about 95 basis points. we haven't reclaimed that optimism. that was happy talk about reopening and how well things would go. faded pretty quickly, and we've not got back to those levels even with all of this optimism around fiscal stimulus down in d.c. tom: let's get to the data right now. futuresup 19, dow bounceback. -700 from top to bottom yesterday. right now the vix comes in at 25.87. 0.70%er the yields today, rounded up to tui -- 0.78%, rounded up to two digits.

lisa, you dazzled me on twitter with a bloomberg grab of the fives-30's spread. discuss. lisa: a lot of people are betting that longer-term yields in the u.s. and shorter-term rates will continue to widen, especially if there is this blue wave. you are seeing that continue with this cap widening to nearly the most since 2017. i don't know if this is a reflation trade or the supply will come in issue. of course, a lot of naysayers. we will discuss. tom: a headline right now from the departed of justice. they will file an antitrust suit against google on tuesday. that goes right into earnings. that is in the backdrop. path isle regulatory tangible into the tech earnings season, isn't it? jonathan: it has been for the last five years or so, and not much or so has changed the business models of these big companies. the big point to try to get what

we just discussed with that headline, the biggest threat to these big tech companies and their valuation at the moment i not be regulation. it might be higher yields. if we can get higher real yields, then that is what fuels that rotation, at least in the minds of many on wall street. tom: we will see. tobias levkovich with us with citigroup, the acclaimed surprise index and their cheap u.s. -- their chief u.s. equity strategist. what does the surprise index say right now? tobias: the citigroup surprise index really spiked significantly post reopening of the economy. in that respect, it couldn't sustain that level that it had before. if you look at it historically, it really sharply rose, and now it is easing back. you could almost predict it was going to because of how far it had run. sometimes this model has taken a

bit too aggressively by people on the street. it really just couldn't keep staying as high as it was, even if the news was good. jonathan: so much of the reopening was mechanical. we went from shut down to reopen, and then sequential improvement is obvious and predicable. what i have been surprised by it that we haven't reclaimed those peaks of early june in various parts of the market. thatdo we need to get back feeling again, that sentiment? tobias: i am going to take a bit of an issue on what the bond market is saying. if you look historically, the bond market, just 10 year treasury yields would move very consistently with the moves we have seen in tips breakevens on expectations. the kind of broke apart call of the last six months, where inflation expeditions have been rising and the 10 year yield hasn't. the only other time we really saw that was back in 2011, 2012,

during the periphery debt crisis. you had central banks aggressively buying sovereign credits, and as a result, you thishis differential, artificial suppressant on the 10 year yield, and i am not sure it is indicating as clearly what is going on in the economy versus what the central banks want to do in terms of keep funding costs low. the bond market in some respects is telling you inflation is picking up, the economy is getting better, and the outlook being stronger over the next several years. then you start getting into timing of vaccines, start getting into the stimulus discussions about the nero term. term. nero -- the nearer term. completely with you, but the correlation is pretty strong. if you look at yields, that is where we peaked post pandemic.

that first week of june. what if the difference between now and early june, and what do we need to see to get back to that at a time when so many people are still hoping for that rotation away from big tech? tobias: i think on the rotation front, if you want to think about a slightly different description which is the big debate amongst investors we talk to, there are three elements to the value trade. there is the financials, which he readily pointed to nominal yields. you need the financials to get better. wheres a second piece they are acting a bit better. we did surveys of clients looking towards 21 he won, and saw industrials leading the market. when you look at covid impaired names, travel, entertainment, leisure hospitality, you need vaccines.

so there's different elements as to what would get you going in different parts of the value trade. about the earlier technology names coming off, it is going to be a function of higher rates to some degree because you view your discounted cash flow models that will be affected. it will be around taxation, it will be around a variety of factors. not a single magic bullet, if you want to call it that. lisa: do you expect big tech to underperform if there is a blue wave? tobias: i think the blue wave argument would do the following. reason toenerate believe that industrials will do better if you get stronger infrastructure spending. i am not sure the blue wave defines 10 year yields. i am not a fixed income guy, so it is not really my area.

but i also think investors went from a month ago saying this is going to be a tight election to ok, it is for sure a done deal, mr. biden wins, they senate flips, this and that. if we go in with that kind of confidence, it is probably maybe misplaced. jonathan: tobias levkovich, great to catch up with you, sir. headlines coming from an interview with the president, i believe, just taking place on fox news. the president saying the mute button is crazy. he says funny things are going on with the debate committee. i don't think he was referring to you a little bit early on the program. i think he is talking about nashville, tennessee and thursday with the vp joe biden. there are 15 minute segments, and each will begin with two minutes of uninterrupted conversation. one person speaks to minutes come of the other person speaks

two minutes. those rules already agreed. reinforcing those rules, you will have a mute button to stop someone from interrupting you. but those two minutes were always meant to be uninterrupted. just when i talk now with you going to cut in all the time. [laughter] lisa: jon, good job. tom: there it is. igh in here. i would suggest the need button benefits the president because he will be able to get out his message she is desperate to get out. lisa: i think it is going to put the moderator in even more of a hotseat in terms of when to press the mute button. 0? it exactly at 2:0 it becomes very difficult. are they all of a sudden talking and then -- jonathan: it's beautiful on radio. tom: for those of you on radio

-- for those of you on radio, ferro is crushing on engineering. jonathan: i wish. coming up on the program, isaac bolt and ski -- isaac boltansky , compass point research and trading. "bloomberg surveillance." ritika: with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. the justice department is poised to file a landmark antitrust suit against school. -- against google. the suit will allege that google engaged end and kai competitive behavior -- engaged in and i could a behavior. google has always avoided a real showdown with the government. house speaker nancy pelosi and treasury secretary steven mnuchin are drawing closer to an

agreement on a coronavirus relief package. the two will talk again today. the deadline pelosi has set for having clarity on a bill that passed by election day. even if the two sides would you deal, senate republicans have been balking at the price tag. president trump and joe biden will be muted at times during thursday's debate. each candidate will have an uninterrupted two minutes to speak at the beginning of each segment. rophonesdidates' mic will be turned on. during the first debate, president trump repeatedly interrupted biden, and both candidates spoke over the moderator. bloomberg has learned that goldman sachs will pay more than $2 billion, broadly in line with the bank's prior reserves and analyst estimates, 208 u.s. criminal conviction. -- estimates, to avoid u.s.

criminal conviction. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. gupta this is bloomberg -- i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> most of our clients are expecting a really large stimulus in q1 of next year. that is positive for the

economy. it is probably good for earnings. but once you start looking through that, six to 18 months, that is when you start seeing tax increases and new levels of regulation starting to bite. i would expect markets may be a little slow to catch up to that. jonathan: the stuff that market participants want, followed by the stuff that most do not want. john lieber there. from london and new york this morning, good morning. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. one hour and 12 minutes away from the cash open. the opening bell just around the corner new york. s&p 500 futures up around 11, 0 .3%. if you get to an intraday chart of the s&p 500, we just rolled over in the last 15 minutes or so on that headline from the wall street journal. "the justice department will file an antitrust lawsuit tuesday alleging that google engaged in anti-competitive the searcharding

forms a large portion of its product." still positive on the session. tom: i agree with a little bit of a move. up 12, dow futures up 91. there is any number of ways to go with isaac boltansky at compass point. i want to focus on something that is in every interview, which is the outcome of a blue president, but i continued red senate. what will gridlock look like under a biden presidency? isaac: i think there are two main points to make. one is it would be far more difficult for president biden in that scenario to actually get his nominees through a republican senate.

so a lot of the regulatory agenda that my clients have focused on, whether that is energy, the environment, health care, financial services, a lot of their fears around that would not materialize simply because it would be difficult to get those personnel in. the second point is what we have all been focused on this morning, which is taxes and stimulus. a bidenscenario, with white house and republican senate, investors should expect any stimulus to be smaller than the base case right now, and for the tax increases that the former vice president has proposed do not come to pass. lisa: aside from the taxes, there's also this regulatory overhang that was highlighted this morning with the headline that the antitrust suit against google will go forward. therech political will is among democrats if there is a blue wave to engage in true regulatory scrutiny of big tech

that could affect their earnings? isaac: the big tech narrative reminds me of infrastructure. everyone in d.c. agrees that something should be done, but once you start to drill down, there's very little agreement in what should actually be done. in big tech, look at the different issue sets. content,cusing on competition, data privacy. there are numerous different avenues to follow. there are just too many cooks in the kitchen. you've got the doj, the ftc, the state ag's, congress in a blue wave scenario. there will be continued pressure, but when you drill down i news the benefit of theory -- down and use benefit of history, there really aren't that many tools at the moment to break up these companies, so the headlines will persist, but in terms of practical impact, i think it is very limited. jonathan: and in the end, the

market addresses the issue. we saw that with microsoft. democrats talking about antitrust. republicans talking about censorship. does does turn democrat, how moderate will that senate be? how much of a progressive policy could pass? isaac: this is something i have been highlighting. about 50% of biden supporters say they support biden because hades -- because he is not trump, and that suggests democratic coalition could have some fractures if they had not winning. we will have a far more progressive house in terms of policy then we will have any senate -- have in the senate. there will be three to five centrist, red state democrats in the senate from states like montana, west virginia, arizona. i think that contingent will push back on the most aggressive and progressive policies that

come out of the house. that's what informs some of my views when it comes to a blue taxes.d tom: i think you are dead ontom: about the power of centrist democrats. it goes back to hubert humphrey from another time and place. how does that set up for 2022? the race begins that wednesday in november, doesn't it? isaac: in some ways, we are gearing up for it right now. to your point, it is not just going to be the ones that are there. it is also going to be defect that their ranks will be bolstered by some of the more purple states, whether that is north carolina or south carolina or maine. furthermore, would we look out to 2022, there are going to be some open seat races in purple states like pennsylvania and like north carolina. i think that will inform schumer's thinking in terms of

policymaking and trying to tap more towards the center. jonathan: just quickly, and the time we have left, does the debate happen on thursday given the noise around still? isaac: i think we are going to have a debate. i think the two-minute muting function will be interesting, but the remainder of those segments is still going to be ,he messy, convoluted concerning mass we saw the first time. yes, i think it happens. no, i don't think it is really going to impact the election because most voters already made up their minds. jonathan: and isn't that the point? great to catch, up, sir. that is the difference between 2016 and 2020, and the surge the president had in the final few , there was a pool of

voters going away from the main candidates. there are key differences for years later. tom: a lot has changed. i get that. but when i am seeing is what a lot of people predicted. we have imagined this will tighten up the next 14 days, and i imagine that the north carolina polls show that. tight with a mystery about the selection, and they'll of the gamesmanship afterwards as well. jonathan: here's the intraday shor chart. on the s&p 500, positive just 0.2%. not even that now. "the wall street journal" came out with a story that today, the justice department could file a antitrust suit against google. yields higher by almost a basis

point on the 10 year to 0.777%. of ther, 1/3 negotiations on capitol hill will be on bloomberg tv and radio. house speaker nancy pelosi coming up later on "balance of power" with david westin. looking forward to that on bloomberg. ♪

jonathan: from london and new york for our audience worldwide, good morning. about one hour away from the opening bell in new york. we fade a little bit on s&p futures. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. with economic data, here is lisa. lisa: housing starts coming in a little bit below estimates, 1.40 5 million housing starts. momentum pulling a little bit, for tickly as we see the wildfire. building permits -- particularly as we see the wildfire. building permits coming in ahead of expectations. aped highlights the k-shpae recovery. people who have the ability to buy a home are doing so. even as we see evictions and

rent delays picking up in other regions. piloting the dissidents of this economic recovery. jonathan: what we call? the hamptons manchester -- the hamptons and pastors bread. lisa: greenwich manhattan. jonathan: headlines coming from the president of the united states. he wants a bigger stimulus bill than the democrats. he goes on to say he expects leader mcconnell to be on board if there is a relief deal. the problem is we have not heard that from leader mcconnell. tom: it is fascinating. i think there is a headline from the president on speaker senate majority leader mcconnell i should say. i am searching for it. we can do that on the bloomberg terminal on radio and television. trump expects mcconnell to be on board if there is a relief deal. that is what the headline says. jonathan: with leader mcconnell

onboard board, different question. we need to hear from mcconnell. tom: a quote from the jump in from kentucky, he would like to "make law." we will continue to monitor the president on fox and other networks, including foxbusiness. this is a joy. as we come out with u.s. economic data somewhat fragile, the great european optimist, erik nielsen has pieced together a career of battling the doom and gloom crew at unicredit in london. he writes a sunday even note, bar ferro, knee-deep in a in mayfair reads erik nielsen's note when it is published at 7 p.m.. fear of a persistent economic slow down, or you just assume with pandemic solution, with vaccine, we get back to some kind of normal? erik: thanks for that

introduction. i do not fear a 10% drop in gdp, but the second way for cost gdp without a doubt, and i worry about the stimulus fatigue in some countries in europe, particular southern europe, where they still fear public debt. that would be set if it were to be more severe. yellen was absolutely on fire on the show yesterday. yellen or a seen a central banker like that. she was heated about the need for stimulus. optimism thateuro you will deliver the trillions necessary? balance, wek on

would not get as much as i would like or as much as janet would like, but in europe we will get a good deal. we are already coming from a hope, because the program we introduced earlier this year to protect labor are all set to run out early next year. that would impose 1% of gdp fiscal tightening unless they are renewed. we would like to see more. you need the national government in europe to bring us to the end of next year when the eu money starts to flow. worried are you about the loss of momentum in this economy before these extra restrictions in the pmi where they are, where they are expected to be on friday, and this comes before we shut down lasts like ireland and the 24 hours. albus understand what is going on with this economy. understand what is

going on with his economy. erik: that is exactly right. data, look at european household savings were at 26% in the second quarter already. forced saving or what have you. you have a retrenchment of the private sector. you have to stimulate this domestic demand from the consumption side, and that is tricky when people are scared. ondoes not matter that much whether it is formal lockdown or just a pandemic expanding. worried because it is not clear how exactly you get people to spend the money and get the economy going. at a minimum, protect the vulnerable in society, protect the sick. who knows who should go under? until this economy

beast of the pandemic is behind us, i would argue. jonathan: is often frustrating for me to listen to conversations about your because we often conflate redenomination wrist and the recovery. i think we have done a lot in europe to reprice redenomination risk. that step forward toward fiscal integration. what i cannot get behind is the optimism rather recovery. you think we can engineer something in europe that leads to higher interest rates, something we failed to do in the last cycle? question. is a big ,he short answer to that is no because i think the low interest rates reflect big structural demographic changes over the last 20 years. in thebig believer burden on the great generational reversal, and i think we'll have

to wait five or 10 years before we get those changes made. the reverse or the slowdown of globalization and we are over the top on the demographic stop. -- on the demographic stock. the best you can do is be sure you replace the entrenchment of the private sector with public debt. the central bank buys it and you should not worry too much about it and keep the economy flowing. -- this pandemic will be behind us in a year or two and you do not want any scars with the economy. lisa: when you talk about starring, i think about -- when you talk about scars, i think about the small businesses that have gone under and count for a disproportional amount of employment in the united states. how big of a concern is this for you in terms of the potential scars in the global economy? erik: that is exactly the concern i have. you hit it spot on.

i go crazy when i hear people talk about creative destruction with enormous confidence that they think this gail of the pandemic will clean out those who should not survive. are we going to let two thirds go under or something like this? do they need support or do they deserve support? what about all the small ones who do not have pr people to tell the story. what about the small restaurants, the small businesses. these are the people they support. others will get through it. my point is this is not market thees that should clean out weaker in a market sense so we can innovate. this is a pandemic. it is a health crisis. as a friend of mine said, it is not a recession. the patient has been put in a coma until it is over. you need to look after the

patient. the smaller ones do not get a voice in the bigger community. jonathan: that is the argument against creative destruction. we do not do the pr voices, do not worry. great to catch up as always. erik nielsen. front page of financial times. above the fold. eurozone heads for a one trillion euro deficit. the appetite to keep on pumping this out and do all of this fiscal stimulus, let's have a look at what the bond market has been doing. new recordn euros in bond issuance this year alone on the continent. an issue this morning with massive demand for it, and i think joe weisenthal of bloomberg audit perfectly. this is not about the capacity -- put it perfectly. this is not about the capacity of the bond market, it is about political capacity. tom: the political will but also

the political will down the road. we have joe stiglitz coming up and he owns a study of the growth rate, and the growth rate is the key idea. jonathan: looking forward to catching up with the nobel laureate next on this program. joe stiglitz. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro and i'm running away to fly solo at 9:00 eastern. on my own. it has been great. tom: you have a mute button with yourself at 9:00? jonathan: i will mute you for the rest of the day if you try to ring me at some absurd time tonight for no reason. we'll be right back. with the first word news, i am ritika gupta. nancy pelosi and steven mnuchin are trying to beat the clock. they are narrowing their differences on a coronavirus relief package. nancy pelosi says by the end of today there much be fairly on

the bill if it will be passed by election day. nancy pelosi told house democrats there are still significant areas of disagreement. a victory for democrats in a fight over ballots in a battleground state. a divided supreme court allowed a three day extension to mail-in ballots in pennsylvania. republicans wanted to reinstate the state requirement that the ballots must arrive by 8:00 on election night. president trump is turning anthony fauci into a scapegoat. he spent the day maligning the top infectious disease expert as an idiot. the president said if you had followed fauci's advice hundreds of thousands of more americans would have died. there is a price the european union has to pay before trade talks with the can be restarted. the british government is holding out for more concessions. that may involve a statement to make it look like the eu is conceding or emphasizing the sides are equals.

global news 24 hours a day, on air and on quicktake by bloomberg, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. . am ritika gupta this is bloomberg. ♪ tom: good morning. bloomberg surveillance. lisa abramowicz and tom keene. jonathan ferro with us as well. an important moment. we have a great theme over the last number of days with all of the politics we are talking about to address the greater economy. noterday it was fascinating only to see janet yellen, but to see janet yellen absolutely on fire over the need for action by washington. let's listen. yellen: we need support for the economy, both monetary and

fiscal policy, and monetary policy has already done a huge amount. fiscal policy response in the united states has been extremely impressive, but it is much larger, the fiscal support, than what we have done after the 2008 financial crisis. the fiscal support is now lapsed. tom: they are all tied together. the 15th chairman of the federal reserve system. joining us, someone who had to sit with student yellen and straighten her out, joseph stiglitz, the nobel laureate from columbia university. what was she like as a student? joseph: she was one of the best students i had. she was one of my students at the very beginning of my teaching and she lived up to her promise. she taught you

some things while she was your student. she was that a claimed through all of her work. joe stiglitz, i want to dovetail into the political season with the economics at hand. joe biden is a certain kind of democrat. , can thees the trophy democratic party find a middle ground, a common voice with the rest of america to actually pass legislation and make policy? joseph: absolutely. i believe there is a broad consensus in america on a wide range of issues, and i believe joe biden is in a position to create that middle ground to get that common agenda adopted. , everybody's concerned about health care, access to health care, the proposal of a public option is a good way of getting it to

everybody. tom: you are looking at this with your new book, "people, power, and profits -- progressive capitalism for an age of discontent." you brought our steinbeck to the american economic mind with discontent. this discontent now is absolutely extraordinary. what can a legitimate joe biden policy accomplish? what is the first condition you see? joseph: the first order is getting the economy going again. janet was absolutely right. there is a need for fiscal support, especially at the bottom. people talk about a k-shaped recovery. those at the bottom are having a very hard time. the unemployment rate from certain groups of the population are very elevated. that is one thing.

there are certain sectors of the economy that are badly afflicted and they need assisting. i am in one of those, the education sector. research sector. those are sectors that are going to be vital to the country's future. we areet those weekend, not -- if we let those weaken, we will have a week economy now but an even weaker economy in the future. lisa: one of the things we've been talking about is gdp and how it will go down dramatically on the heels of the pandemic. in aere recently quoted bloomberg article about how this is not a great measure of people's well-being. he also said high prices in the stock market aren't even worse indicator and focusing on the wrong things can lead to taking the wrong action. what wrong actions have we been taking up until now? joseph: the focus on the stock market is perverse, because we

know underlining the growth of the stock market are a few companies in silicon valley, giants doing very well as a result of the monopoly power, people going into the stock market because interest rates are so low, bonds are so low they are piling into the stock market. wages are not doing very well. that helps the stock market. all of those are things that are weakening our economy. it is almost perverse, the strong stock market is almost a sign that things are not going well in other parts of the economy. we need to focus on the role of market power in our economy, the low wages, the fact that at the bottom wages are the same as they were 65 years ago adjusted for inflation, and, most importantly, we need aggregate jobs areing up so

there for all americans, and that will not happen if we do not have the fiscal stimulus that janet was talking about yesterday. lisa: this is an incredibly important point, the idea that the prices on stocks could be evidence of something counter to what may be healthiest the underlying economy. do you think the response from the federal reserve, the u.s. treasury department, and congress, has increased the disparity and access to funding for small and larger companies at a time we see unprecedented bankruptcies among smaller businesses? joseph: that is very many aspects of what you just raised. there was a program creating at the very beginning that was intended to get money to small businesses. ,t was very badly administered and it did not work. it got money to the richest of

the small businesses. many of whom were owned by very rich people. but the wayas good, it was executed by the trump banksstration and by the was a disaster. policy wehe monetary conducted since the great financial crisis of 2008 of keeping interest rates very low has stimulated the value of equities and the equities are overwhelmingly owned by the people in the top 10%, top 1%, top .1%. absently unambiguous that monetary policy has increased wealth inequalities. tom: i was talking with our sally bakewell who is looking at the great divide we see in new york or this nations of small

businesses flat on their back. worlde financialized the for the benefit of the upper x percent or others. how do we escape nd financial lies in a constructive -- how do ancialize ind defin a constructive way? joseph: we have to rewrite the rules of the market economy. there is too much market power at the top. we talked about in terms of the silicon valley giant, but a lot more throughout the economy. we have weakened the marketing power of workers and that has contributed to inequality. tohave rules that have led that excessive financial's asian you talked about before -- that excessive financialization you talked about before. we have a tax system where those

of the top pay a smaller percentage of their income than those below. warren buffett complained about it, saying it was wrong he was paying a lower tax rate than his secretary. a lot of wealthy people recognize that this is bad for our economy. you sum up- tom: if the taxes that rich guys are paying, it is a pretty large bracket. it may not be rockefeller paying 72%, but it is there. ncialize andfina deploy capital to people starving for capital? apple computer is not starving for capital. what about the small business person on a corner in tulsa, oklahoma? we have tot is where refocus our banking system. banks were always at the center

of providing capital to small and medium-sized businesses. , youu are a small business cannot raise money on the capital market. you go to your bank. banks, overis the the last 30 years, have focused their attention on things like , tradingerivatives commodities, they found a lot more lucrative ways of making money. some of it, market manipulation. if we stop some of the bad activities, market manipulation, predatory lending, and encourage them to use their mandate, which has led to small businesses, i think it would actually create much more opportunity. tom: this is the heart of the matter. i'm just old enough, unlike the ancient joe stiglitz who remembers this, there actually

was a time when you did business with your local bank, or maybe the regional bank. it has evaporated. lisa: the regional banks, anecdotally, have been pulling back on credit. i will nottiglitz refer to your tenure that tom's was talking about in terms of ancient history. i will say, going forward, how does the economic profession, how to usa nobel laureate get your voice heard to the degree it needs to be heard by policymakers to say economist have gotten wrong numerous times. why should we follow a theory when free market economists have led to the power of the united states over the long term? joseph: it has not been free market economics has led to the success. when you look at all the innovations that have been the basis for u.s. success, all of those innovations have been supported by the government. , the advances in

medicine we are all looking for. who did the research that led to dna? who did the research that led to all the major advances in biology? it is the government. one of the things i called for recognizing the success of the united states has been based on a balance between the market, the government, and civil society. we lost that balance beginning with ronald reagan that said the government was the problem. we now in this pandemic have seen an ill-prepared government is not there when we need it. argumenthe strongest for what i call for in my book, a new social contract with the new balance, has been precisely the failures we have just seen in this pandemic.

tom: joe stiglitz, we have to leave it there. thank you for your comments on chair yellen early in this discussion. with ael laureate out new book. it has been an extraordinary day. i guess it is right on cue, things heating up. lisa: we are getting very close to the election and the conviction in markets is shopping given where we were a few weeks ago with people counting on several months they contested election. that fear no longer in markets. tom: i was not talking about the markets, i was talking about jonathan ferro. he just fell apart. lisa: the mute button did him in. tom: he just fell apart. we will do this tomorrow. we will see you at 6:00 a.m. tomorrow on the simulcast on bloomberg television and on tv and radio. the interview of the day, ted cruz out on fox skeptical on stimulus on the others of the

aisle. speaker pelosi in conversation with david westin. look for that in the noon hour. scheduled today. dow futures up 120. stay with us through the day. this is bloomberg radio and bloomberg television. ♪

♪ jonathan: from new york and

london for our audience worldwide, good morning, good morning. equity futures up 12. we advance .33%. we begin with the big issue. two weeks to go. joe biden urging unity in north carolina. vice president biden: i am running as a proud democrat, but i will govern as an american president. no red states, no blue states. just the united states. too have a sacred duty to vote and it matters. jonathan: president trump pushing for a different kind of unity, bipartisan deal for a different stimulus package. president trump: nancy pelosi may be coming along, we will find out. they want to do it, i want to do it. i want a bigger deal than she wants. that does not mean all of the republicans agree with me. jonathan: