asks that question every single time i stand here. it was a hypothetical question. the answer was i would follow the science. i am not going to shut down the economy. i'm going to shut down the virus. again, no national shutdown. no national shutdown. because every region, every area, every community can be different. so there is no circumstance which i can see that would require a total national shutdown. i think that would be counterproductive. constraints in which the degree to which businesses can be open. for example, it is one thing to stateu can have in a where the infection rate is not as high, you can have a gymnasium open. it is another thing to say they can only be four -- equally be

open four hours a day with x number of people. the church i go to only allows 40% of the people to come into the church. it is not shutting down everything. it is calibrating based on what the trend is. >> thank you, mr. president elect. >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. president elect and vice president-elect harris. first, whichr you is, what do make of the fact that the president is having these calls with michigan county officials amid his bid to overturn the election? he is going to be having this again republican legislators at the white house tomorrow. is anything he is doing aching you rethink your strategy? i know you are saying do not want to have legal action right now. what do you say to immigrant americans who came to the united

states looking for political stability and seeing all the things the president is doing? >> hang on. i am on my way. not a joke. what the president is doing now really going to be an other incident where he will go down in history as being one of the most irresponsible presidents in american history. norm not even within the at all. there are questions as to whether it is even legal. it is going to be interesting to see who shows up. in this call to meet with the leadership. won michigan. it is going to be certified. we are going to end up making clear that they are clear we

won. i just -- it is hard to fathom how this man thanks. and i amd to fathom confident he knows he has not won and we are going to be sworn in on january 20. it is hard for me to question his motive. it is just outrageous what he is doing. he is doing, calling officials, it is it making you rethink your strategy at all? is there anything he would be doing that would make you think you have to go to court now or are you watching what he is doing and you are saying we can watch and see what happens? >> i am not going to rule anything out but at the moment, the strategy has -- is not changing. >> if i could ask a question to the vice president elect, you

talked about your state experience. my question is, is there anything you have heard from governors today that made you specifically concerned about vulnerable populations especially as i talk to americans who say i do not have the privilege to work from home or to social distance if i am living in house with multi-generations. did you hear anything that concerns you specifically and what can we do for them as a country? >> as the president-elect shared with everyone, we heard a lot from the governors including the concern that african-americans, pinots, people who live in -- latinos, people who live in world communities as groups of people who have historically been under resourced and underserved and so there was concern among the governors that our federal strategy should reflect those concerns in a way that we support the states with

the resources they will need to get to the folks who have been often overlooked or ignored. the president-elect has made it clear it is one of our highest priorities to support that. in the senate, i lied what we called a racial disparities task force. -- i led what we called a racial disparities task force to ensure all people have equal access to resources. also taking into account equitable distribution of resources based on need. >> one important thing to understand is -- and we have talked a lot about this when i was running and seeking the nomination as well, and that is the idea of the brown, black, asian america, native american communities are always the first ones hit the hardest and the last ones who are brought back. we are going to flip that around.

it is going to be really important to determine priorities based upon access to the information that is available, access to everything from the vaccine to other opportunities to be able to deal with helping the country, parts of the country that have been hurt the worst. three times as many african-americans have died than white americans who have died from covid. there has to be a prioritization. that is why i would like to know exactly what this administration has in mind in terms of their operation warp speed. that is what we talked about with the governors today. they all mentioned the need to focus on communities that have been left behind. particularly governor cuomo. it is one thing if vaccines are distributed to the all -- to all the walgreens of america. no criticism to all walgreens. there are a lot of those facilities that are not in rural

communities and are not in poor communities. you have got to make sure there is access for them. ok. thank you. >> there we have president-elect joe biden talking about the lack of transfer of power as he sees it and some of the risks he sees surrounding that. he echoed there will not be a national shutdown. have thedent will authority to overrule the states on that. he says there will not be a national shutdown in terms of the economy. he also spoke about help for cooperation with republicans going further and notably, he spoke about the fact they have chosen someone to head the

treasury. that is important because we have had significant breaking news when it comes to steve mnuchin not renewing some of the emergency funds with the federal reserve. romaine: there were several emergency programs created by the cares act that was passed a while ago. there are four key programs the federal reserve is in charge of. expire december 31. the fed had asked for a 90 day expansion. secretary mnuchin in a letter said he is not going to grant the 90 day extension. i'm going to read the acronyms for the one he is dealing with. , the primary dealer credit , the money market liquidity facility and the paycheck protection program. most notably, this is going to affect the lending program which went unused. there was a 500 billion dollar program. only 45 billion had been tapped from it.

the treasury is asking for that money to be returned. effectively, this looks like any sort of additional effort the fed could make to use those programs to put money into the program, they are not going to have the ability to do that past december 31. ,oe: we were talking yesterday the ongoing attention to all these cliffs. yesterday, we were talking about fiscal cliffs. there is also the monetary cliff, the various programs that were developed rapidly back in the spring to address this crisis. the crisis is ongoing. many aspects remain. certainly economic distress. you see as of now, they are scheduled to come to an end. caroline: what is interesting is the main street program was not effective and neither was the missable program because it is

cheaper to go to the markets. when it came to the main street lending, it felt the loans were too large and a lot of the companies that are hurting did not need that kind of help. they have tried to reeducate and change the amount you can borrow and make it easier to facilitate borrowing. even though they have asked for an 80 days extra, the federal reserve has been denied it. joe: worth noting that even if there has not been a lot of money disbursed from these programs, their existence likely had a soothing effect on credit markets. we saw the way muni spreads came in as soon as they announced that. looks can be deceiving. some of them like a main street appears not to have done very much. the potential disappearance of these programs, hard to say what they would do to be economy and markets but their existence

probably had some salutary effect. bloombergbring in the cross asset reported. put extraordinary day overall. risk assets during the day rallying but at some point obviously, will be anxiety about cliffs,e looming policy fiscal and monetary, could they start to show up? >> that seems to be the case. you did see that big come out of risk assets as the day wore on. you seeing it now after we heard from president-elect biden, lamenting the fact it has been difficult to get up-to-date information on the virus, which could slow progress in containing it. if you look after our trading in some of the etf's, small caps etf is down about .3%. qqq, it is at tech, down less, only about a 10th of a percent.

even though biden did say he would not locked down the economy on day one, perhaps this is an early sign that investors see the stay-at-home trade falling less. is -- this has been a push poll market about whether they get excited about the future in a vaccine world or whether they confront the realities. what we are seeing in terms of the ramifications over in europe. the economic numbers out today pay lip service to that. the fact we did see jobless claims coming in worse than expected. >> it has been interesting talking to people in the market about how much the equity market can look past. they have been telling me to look at the bond market. if you look at treasury yields, they are in this six basis point range. even though we have had fairly good vaccine news, it has not been landing in the treasury market. i think that speaks to the fact

that those bond traders are looking at a totally different timeline. they are more focused on the months ahead, the pain that could come in the months before we get a vaccine. the jobless claims figures were just a reminder. joe: thank you so much. for more on the latest development, i want to bring in michael mckee. what do you make of the withdrawal of that money? to what degree where these programs having an effect on -- whatand what degree kind of consequences with it have? >> this is not unexpected. it has been talked about as a possibility for a while. given $455y was billion to try to work -- and be able to work through the fed to buy loans from banks to small businesses and help run the ppp program. a lot of it went unused. the mainstream -- the main

street programs made almost no loans at all. there was a feeling if congress could not act, there was money there that could perhaps be reallocated through a new ppp program. the question is whether it is all transferable and whether congress needs to act. congress normally has to appropriate money for it to be spent. the administration thinks it can be done and thinks it is a worthwhile -- a worthwhile move at this point. can you romaine: bind us as to why we did not see more uptake in the main street program? lending, thepal general feeling was the terms were too onerous for me to's apologies. the fees the fed was charging room going to be too high and the fed's argument is they probably did not need to use the facility because the fact that

it existed and the other actions they have taken in the bond market meant that rates in the muni market have come down significantly. so it is cheaper to sell your own than to go to the fed. the problem with the main street program was it took a long time to get going. borrow didwho could and generally from their banks and did not want to also pay a bit of an extra fee. those who could not borrow were considered poor risks and the fed and their banks did not necessarily want to make loans for them. neither program has worked as it is written down. the fed would argue because the overall actions lowered interest rates, lower the cost of borrowing and kept the markets open. they were successful anyway without spending the money. caroline: pushing forward for us, everyone is giving up on fiscal stimulus and looking to the next administration.

everywhere on is going to be looking toward the future relationship, the next treasury secretary. are we anticipating a close relationship between the fed and the treasury secretary going forward? prior to this, we had thought my notion in powell 's relationship had been good. >> the fed has generally had good relations with treasury officials throughout history. some of them have been particularly close. alan greenspan and bob rubin worked well together. if the new treasury secretary is lael brainard, she comes from the fed. there should not be any reason the fed and treasuries square off and i am not sure what the fed's answer to secretary mnuchin's request is going to be but i don't think it -- do not

think they are going to take it attack on them. the money is there not being used and there is a need in the country. it has been talked about for a while. these remember when programs were first launched and there is some -- and there was some question as to whether the fed needed the treasury's participation. fedheory, could the establish some of its own emergency lending programs without participation, without that equity buffer from the treasury and potentially create some continuity in the market even if the treasury wants to pull it back? >> they can do it to a certain extent but after the financial crisis, a lot of their emergency lending powers were curved. theory, it is not supposed to lose money on any of its deals. the participation of the treasury was to take the first

bunch of losses. if they did that, their estimate was 10%, if they did that, the fed would not be in danger and could lend the money in partnership with treasury. romaine: i am also curious here. the idea that -- you obviously know a lot more about this than i do but the idea that my notion is asking for the money to return, this effectively creates a reset for the new congress and the new president in january. i'm curious as to why he could not have denied the extension but not actually requested a return of the money itself. >> it appears they want to spend the money before the end of the year. romaine: on something related to the stimulus? >> yes, they would like to create some sort of program to give money who need it . oreither create ppp program additional unemployment

benefits. cares act benefits particularly for all unemployment expire on december 31. the idea is to not let the money go away, to make use submit between now and then. -- to make use of it between now and then. the question is how they would use the money and whether that could pass legal muster. i do not have good answers on that at the moment. the federal reserve does prefer all facilities does continue. --ing they are going to be the facilities serve an important role for backstops of the economy. the economy is strained and vulnerable. put that strain and vulnerability into context because we are seeing this through the high-frequency data. >> we are seeing it through the high-frequency data but we are also starting to see it through the regular data we get. jobless claims numbers went up

significantly. anticipation is the economy is in the process of slowing significantly. something needs to be done. we will have to see -- i have not seen the fed's statement, what their reasoning is. they do worry about market reaction. worried thaty are the markets will take this wrong because a lot of the money went into buying in the secondary market for bonds and have the pot there reassures investors. that may be part of the fed's thinking. caroline: interesting should currently a lot of live streaming of thoughts. our bloomberg opinion writer saying how we might see every sessa tatian of this in the future. -- a resuscitation of this ended the future. request approval

from the treasury. lawhe extent permitted by or additional funds appropriated by congress. we will see if they are resuscitated. we thank you so much for jumping on -- for jumping on the phone with us. a different kind of conversation. joe: let's return to a market that does not care about any of this. that does not need any new issuance or a federal reserve or a change of policy or anything like that. bitcoin seeing a massive surge. let's bring in nick carter. you guys do not worry about any of this, right? no one in bitcoin has to worry about treasury fed cooperation to keep the issuance going. >> i think we worry about it to a certain extent. i think everybody is focused on what inflation is going to do in the next decade or so. romaine: interesting. how does inflation trend impact

the way you look at crypto yucca a lot of in the -- crypto? >> a lot of investors see bitcoin as an inflation hedge. that is something a lot of investors and allocators seem to be concerned about these days. it remains to be seen whether we will get inflation. so far, the prospects for inflation seem fairly dim. that is definitely part of the appeal for the fixed supply asset where there is no monetary discretion and the issuance schedule is predefined. squaree: the likes of and some of these publicly traded companies have been starting to look at bitcoin instead of treasuries in somewhere and using as an alternative asset because they are looking to diversify away from the u.s. dollar. it speaks to what the federal reserve is doing right now. crypto has been on a tear for many a reason. in large part because institutions seem to be putting

a small amount of their money to work. it is a big seismic effect on the overall market. >> the exile janessa factors are the macro factors we are talking about here. the fact we are in this largely unprecedented monetary environment which is causing people to fear negative interest rates or a fear of the potential for inflation. the end dodge and is factor is a somewhat underappreciated. you talk about investors getting exposure to bitcoin. the last time we had a bull run like this in 2017, it was difficult practically for those institutional allocators to get access to the asset. the tools and the plumbing, a lot of this did not exist back then. there were no qualified custodians that could help you get exposure to the asset. there was little in the way of prime brokerage. there was not a robust lending

market. the futures product only launched at the tail end of the bull rally. the and dungeness factor is something that is being overlooked. the fact that the plumbing for the industry can accommodate more capital, you do need there to be a good reason to allocate to the asset. that is where the macro comes in. what we have been doing and what the entrepreneurs we back have been doing is actually building that financial infrastructure which can accommodate capital, which make a large investors comfortable with access to the asset class. romaine: go back to the run-up we saw in 2017. we talked about the ico's and the way bitcoin was use as a frontal for those. does not appear to be the same case this time around. >> absolutely. the way we sell bitcoin trading was it is a pastor asset.

it was a vehicle to get exposure to -- to these ico's that a lot of retail investors were piling into an exposure to alternative cryptocurrencies that were even more volatile than bitcoin. that is very much not the case today. their opinions clear on ico's. they consider them to be investment contracts and they have been cracking down hard on some of these unregistered securities offerings. there is not the presence of these alternative coins that are being newly launched. that is not a feature of the market today. it looks like it is more a function of allocators taking a second look at out -- at bitcoin and saying there is something intra-to here. maybe this is a slowly monetizing monetary commodity. maybe i should take another look at it. ago, we sawth bitcoin having or the rate of issuance nearly decreased. six month after that, the price

takes off. totally separate things? can we say on air here that the halving was already priced in ? [laughter] bitcoiners are going to be upset but i do not believe it had a mini full effect on the price of bitcoin. it was something for castable from day zero. so no, i do not believe an incredibly foreseeable change was a driving catalyst. i think the catalyst are outside of the market are related to infrastructure. romaine: joe with a hard-hitting question. caroline: watch out for the twitter -- meanwhile, we thank you, nick carter. uniform microphone by the way. -- beautiful microphone by the way. romaine: we never introduce to joe. caroline: it is great to have you, joe.

he is not profusely sweating at the moment. joe: bloomberg technology is up next. romaine: have a great evening. this is bloomberg. ♪ businesses today are looking to tomorrow.

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emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco, and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, the cdc urging americans not to travel during thanksgiving. cases of covid-19 continue to surge. what does it mean for the travel industry struggling under the weight of a pandemic? ceo will be my guest. amazon making a big move to up