yield. the world is desperate for income. >> with a vaccine inside, there is much hope. >> entrepreneurial america will come back. >> there's pent-up demand for getting out of the house. >> there's an enormous amount of stimulus that is it to be spent. >> even though 2021 is supposed to be a good year, you may start in a hole. >> certainly some support will be needed going forward. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: from new york and london, for our audience worldwide, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ," live on bloomberg tv and radio. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. with equity futures going nowhere, we've got to get serious off the top. this equity market has been setting record after record over the last month. this pandemic is setting all of the wrong kinds of records in

the last 24 hours. tom: what is interesting is the microanalysis of france or germany. interesting conclusions. here's what matters. hospitalization capacity and the number of deaths is front and center for the pros. jonathan: and for market participants, desensitized by the numbers, conditions by the experience of earlier in spring. markets -- that if that markets go up, and if they policymakers step in. tom: it is real simple here. yes, all of that is true, but .lso noted, a society adapting stimulus may be, the adoption of a set of vaccines, but also

corporations adjusting to try to better 2021. jonathan: let's hope we get some better economic data. 8:30 eastern, jobless claims just around the corner. we got from 3m this morning. they are going to cut 3% of their staff, 2900 jobs. this comes amid the concern, how much can we see these terrible pandemic numbers without longer-term impact on that future outlook in 2021? at 8:00 a.m., we are getting the rest of the opec+ meeting on out cuts -- on output cuts. the theory is there is some consensus coming together to slowly taper the output cuts over time. we are definitely seeing a minor reaction. , theinitial jobless claims

expectation is 775,000. this is basically flat on last week. as you can see, we are still at a very high level, and i am really wondering how messy the data is. a lot of asterisks around it given the pandemic counting. ism service pmi's, i am most interested in this. how much are the service sectors being affected by those terrible numbers and record-breaking figures out of the virus reality in america today? jonathan: i am with you, lisa. , 700 k.jobless claims don't get used to that. feel uncomfortable with that number. you should not be comfortable with 700,000. 700,000 is an ugly number still. tom: michael mckee will be here with an original report at 8:30. there's no idea what those numbers are going to be or how constructive as well. what is fascinating to me about

the labor economy is when it changes and it gets worse, how will the markets react? i think that is the huge mystery into january, and frankly into the first quarter of next year. jonathan: here's the price action this thursday morning. equity futures doing absolutely nothing on the s&p 500. up two points, near all-time highs in the fx market. euro-dollar with a near 21 handle. when do they step in and say we don't like this? the we being the ecb. 0.93 percent is where the 10-year is right now. to be precise, 0.9277%. big move in the bond market. yields up. yields higher. a real debate in this market as to whether the fed will tolerate that move, whether they will step in the next couple of weeks. tom: i know our guest is going to get to this on equities as well.

put the euro in perspective. it is out 2.7 standard deviations. that is a massive jump condition in the strong euro on a short-term basis. as you know, there's winners there, and there's losers. jonathan: it's not just about the level, it's about the pace. we will catch up with kit juckes of socgen later. we can catch up with tony dwyer now, canaccord genuity equity strategist. can you feel comfortable with this market given what is going on in the world around us in the last 24 hours? tony: it just is disheartening to hear, but it just goes to show what drives the market is money. that's always driven the market. unfortunately, the social side of it isn't as important as the excess liquidity side of it. the excess liquidity side of it is absolutely extraordinary. just a quick comment on the dollar. if you look back since 2009,

since the great financial crisis, there's been periods of such a weak dollar. historically when it gets down more than 8%, which it did in the summertime, and ends up going down between 13% to 17%. is reason that is important people always try to make it about deficits, access debt. what it always comes down to is the dollar gets weaker in that second leg lower where it goes down into the midteens because it starts to understand and accept that there's is a synchronized global recovery, and that i believe if the movement in the dollar versus some kind of panic over brexit or panic over access debt. tom: good morning. your number one call is all stocks until the recession. are you going to sell stocks because you see a recession coming? jonathan: we are -- tony: we are

in the beginning of a new market economic cycle. if you look back at how the market is acting and how the indicators are acting, it is very similar to what happened toward the end of 2009, where you had historic excess liquidity, just like there is now, and you had the synchronized global recovery coming out of the great financial crisis. even though the market was up 2009, ite summertime kept going up because there was this excess liquidity and this understanding that the globe was recovering all at the same time. that has been the impact of the pandemic globally. everything is shut down -- everything was shut down in march. now we are coming off that low, although obviously there's going to be fits and starts over the near term. lisa: a lot of equity strategists have been pointing to signs of euphoria, extreme buy-in, particularly in this moment based on those terrible numbers we are getting out of

hospitals and deaths on the heels of the covid pandemic. what you do as a longer-term investor? do you just ignore it and basically say long term, it is all going to work out? or do you play this in the real-time? tony: i am not very good at chasing excessive optimism and strength. it is not a sign that we are about to collapse. the only time you really get sustainably defensive on when you can predict a recession is coming, and you can do that through the yield curve, when you have inversion of the yield curve. it is one of the reasons we downgraded the market in january of this year. the yield curve inverted last august, so the yield curve is just steepening. just like it is a sign of a recession is coming when it inverts, when it goes from inversion back to a positive slope, it is a sign of economic activity. so our play is to buy periods of

weakness like the september whoosh.nd the october those are the kind of environments where i think you want to attack the opportunity versus feeling like you are missing something and chasing this kind of optimism that's out there. jonathan: isn't that a story for everyone, though? everyone's got the same trade on right now. i am trying to work out what would test the patience of this market at the moment to actually lead to some kind of pullback. the data has been soft on planes over the past couple of weeks. it just seems to me that everything is so firmly anchored by the expectation that , nextations will begin week in the u.k., in the u.s. maybe in the couple of weeks. tony: people like me are famous for coming on tv and saying i think it is going to cause it. it is not predictable.

what causes a real sharp two week selloff, it is a news item that you can't predict. folks like us, you guys in the media and us in the sell side group, are saying the market is due for a pullback. investors aren't playing it that way because optimism are so hot -- because optimism is so high. that range from small to large, it is at a level that the most recent time it was there was around the august peak, right before we had that in percent decline. before that, about three years ago. optimism is high among actual -- among actual investors. tony dwyer of canaccord genuity, thank you, sir. did you hear what the cdc

director had to say in the last 24 hours? here's the quote. "actually believe it is the most difficult time in the public-health history of this nation." tom: it is there, and the cdc asserting itself certainly with the lame-duck trump administration. it will be interesting to see the trump response and dr. fauci's response into the new administration. there is so much going on here beside these horrific pandemic members. they are down 34% from there 2018 hi, 3m is basically a failed industrial operation, up 10% a year for the last 10 years. clearly that is not good enough. jonathan: and a lot of dealmaking this week. salesforce, s&p. we have done a lot of deals already. tom: serious money. of course, emily chang's wonderful interview with david

benioff of slack, who i know we are talking to today. jonathan: alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. equity futures are just a little bit negative by a quarter-point, down by 0.01%. up next, kathy jones of charles schwab. this is bloomberg. with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. house speaker nancy pelosi and senate democratic leader chuck schumer are backing a stimulus plan as the foundation for a new round of negotiations. the plan calls for $900 billion in spending, less than what democrats want, but an increase from the number being floated by senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. the u.s. has had its deadliest day yet in the pandemic, according to johns hopkins university. the number of fatalities went over 2700 for the first time.

meanwhile, hospitalizations going over 100 thousand. california posted 38% surge in the last week of november. the u.s. has restricted travel visas for millions of numbers of china's communist party. new rules will allow party embers and their families to obtain visas good for one month. previously they could get 10 year visas. the u.s. embassy in beijing says partys communist actively tries to influence americans. opec is making targets on out earlierer negotiations this week. one delegate tells bloomberg discussions are now focusing on proposals for gradual easing of output cuts over several months. ups trying to keep from being overwhelmed at the holiday rush. ups is temporarily restricting some pocket as it takes from big , gap, andsuch as nike

l.l. bean. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

chair powell: there are many sectors that could use some help. despite the rapid progress in

getting people back to work, there are still 10 million people who are out of work because of the pandemic. jonathan: work to do. that is the message from the federal reserve chairman jerome powell on capitol hill over the last couple of days. from london and new york, good morning to you while. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. radio, bloomberg tv and here's the price action this thursday morning. speaking of the job market, jobless claims coming in about one hour, 12 minutes time. equity futures going nowhere after another all-time high in the equity market on the s&p 500. in the fx market, some new levels for 2020. $1.2133, upwhich about 0.1%. a weaker dollar over the last month or so. in the bond market, yields breakout this week. on what? that is the debate. 0.926 1% is where the 10 year yield is right now.

you've got a record high in the equity market, some real dollar weakness for 2020 in the fx market, and a little bit of a breakout in the bond market with yields higher. tom: yes, there's some red on the screen with dow and s&p, but nevertheless, there seems to be a lift with that new dollar , buttressed up against where jon mentioned the record high was. right now, kevin cirilli, our chief washington correspondent. there's a lot to talk about. --ant to go to the 10 year century0 year of 19 history. it seems to be playing out in the lame-duck. does the attorney general make it to the white house christmas party? kevin: if there is going to be a white house christmas party. but from a broader standpoint, the tension that has developed between attorney general william

barr and president trump is enough for a short story in a book. quite frankly, i think it will be as it goes forward. there's a lot of division right now amongst republicans about where things are going to stand in terms of the presidential pardons, the precedent for the pardons, and detest of the constitution in terms of where things go not only in the current administration, but in administrations decades from now. tom: who is advising the president? he seems to be colossally alone after a 46 minute video last night. i assume you are the only one who actually sat through the entire thing. who is advising the president as he exits the white house? kevin: rudy giuliani. and i speak with a source frequently who tells me that rudy giuliani is still very much in lockstep with president trump, and that they have really been not just from a professional standpoint, but they remain close friends, and

is a close friend of the president's. jonathan: still work to do on capitol hill. speaker pelosi has moved, come all the way beneath $1 trillion with the bipartisan offer put on the table just a couple of days ago. they are coalescing around that now. what is the reception on capitol hill to the idea that the democrats have come in? kevin: not only did they come in, they came in by more than 50% of the price tag of their $2.3 trillion demands, which of course is a reduction from the $3 trillion plus. now they are about $900 billion, and that is really music to the ears not just of republicans, but also from centrist democrats like congressman scott got , the chairman of the problem solvers caucus who has been a driving force behind this. he's one of the rare lawmakers to be able to do that. i would also note the handful of

republican senators who publicly have already come out in support of this. people like senator susan collins the republican of maine who will be a dominant force in the next congress because she will be the senator in question on many of the bipartisan deals in a swing vote, so to speak, for a biden adminstration. senator richard shelby, a much more conservative member in the republican caucus, who has not yet endorsed this plan, but saying that they are open to it. as a result of that in particular, a lot of folks here inside the nation's capital are more optimistic about passing stimulus in the lame-duck then they are about passing a defense authorization act. lisa: there is still the sticking point of funding to state and local governments. to me that is the big question, whether mitch mcconnell and president trump would be willing to sign off on the amount of aid they have included in this bill. what is your read on that? kevin: i think the republicans

that came out yesterday in the senate to signal support for this and signal a green light make me think that right now, they are at a yellow light, and could be moving to green. that aside, the issue of state and local government has been discussed amongst republicans that i talked to by saying this would be funding for schools. they are making this pitch now, and again, a dramatic reduction from what speaker pelosi originally asked for, by more than 50%. couplee saying that the hundred billion that would go to state and local governments really would be driven towards helping schools. jonathan: kevin, it is a massive reduction. it is great to catch up, sir. thank you, kevin. speaker pelosi and senate minority leader schumer coming all the way in from north of $2 trillion to south of $1 trillion. that is a big move to get this ball moving. tom: and it comes in hind sight

of a number of weeks ago, where they blinked and said no, they needed that bigger number. the reality of this, and i give great credit to mike mckee and our team for leaning on the obvious changes in the unemployment is an issue. i'm sorry, it is all about jobs, whether london, washington, wherever else. politics is about jobs. jonathan: the reality is that the lockdowns have come back in places like los angeles. the stay-at-home orders. maybe not in the same way they were delivered in spring, but a similar shape, a similar flavor. when you start to tell people they've got to stay-at-home, you've got to provide the aid. otherwise, where is the compliance going to be? how do you comply with a stay-at-home order if you can't get paid? the you are right, it is european and the american difference. there's a large body of americans that agree with the deficit hawks that they don't want to provide income substitution or income replacement. we are hearing from on the

theyd politicians aggressively disagree with that. you heard it from chairman powell. i've never heard a fed chairman speak like that ever. jonathan: i think you've got to recognize though that the conversation has changed. what we used to consider a deficit hawk means something completely different now. a deficit hawk and once -- is it hawk in washington is someone who wants a $500 billion package and not a $2 trillion package. lisa: no one is that worried about the debt, even the people who are supposedly worried about the debt. one thing i find fascinating is the shift in tone from the democrats seems to come on the heels of a shift in tone with republicans as well, looking up to 2021 and an additional funding package that will be passed by five. this looks like more of a down payment, which is -- by biden. this looks like more a a down payment, which is also a shift. jonathan: you've got to get

through to march. doesn't that remind us of earlier this year, when you got to get through to the end of spring and summer and fall? from london and new york this morning, good morning. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ are you frustrated with your weight and health?

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♪ jonathan: there is something really uncomfortable about this equity market worldwide. record highs at a time like this? maybe you are comfortable with that. i feel uncomfortable. a record high on the s&p. a record high on the nasdaq. onadd some weight to that the nasdaq. we pull back a bit on the s&p 500. yields up. maybe some people welcoming that move, forcing the rotation and the equity market. yields up to about 93 basis points on the 10 year. steeper curve. kathy jones of charles schwab joining us in just a moment to weigh in on what is behind this. i will spend a little bit of time on this. in foreign-exchange, the story for me, the euro strength. there has been three phases to the zero move off of the back of spring. one was off the back of the fed inducing some dollar weakness.

euro stronger. the next move was the important one, the trade-weighted euro move. it was off the back of that deal in brussels that the leaders came together with. that made the ecb uncomfortable. the euro too strong. that went through to august. until recently, and the last week, this is what i want to look at. not just euro-dollar. euro china, eurosterling. we are starting to see that euro strength become a little bit more broad-based. i think that is really important . the last month or so has been a dollar weakness story. over the last couple of days, a storyroadly euro-dollar -- broadly a row strength story. that is when -- broadly euro strength story. that is when pressure builds on the ecb. tom: i want to frame this out. $1.19 up to ao,

$1.21 stronger euro. euro is a power for squishy number. disagreed on what would be the effect of that on the nations. i just don't buy it. i am more of a traditionalist back to the 1980's, where it might really suggest that some point along the path from one and onto21 to $1.24 $1.30, you will see some angst in europe. ,ight now, the bond dynamic kathy jones joins us now with schwab and their center for financial research. we are seeing the bond move. i think the bloomberg barclays total return index is up, up. it doesn't compare to the equity markets, but it has still been a next ordinary two-year run for

bonds. when do bonds breathe and we see price down and yield up? kathy: i think we are starting to see it in the long and now. seeing the steepness of the car with the 10 year treasury pushing up against that 1%. we are looking for further steepening where the fed is anchored. short-term rates near zero, long-term rates to try to edge higher. not looking for a huge move at this stage of the game. the economy still has a pretty dark period to go through here, but as we look in the second half of next year, if we really get the vaccine distributed and the economy fully reopened, people get back to work, it is not unlikely that 10 year yields are in that 1% to 1.5% area. lisa: there's a consensus in markets that bond yields would be much higher if it weren't for the widespread belief that the fed will step in and suppress yields if they climb too high. what is that level that triggers

the fed's concern? kathy: i wish i knew. i wish there was a line in the sand that they were going to draw. but i don't think that is realistic. i think it is more likely that the fed looks at the rate of change in the underlying needs for what is driving it. 1.25%, rates move up to it is off of the back of good economic data, falling unemployment, rising consumption , you might just say that is not a terrible thing. disorderly and a sudden jump because inflation expectations have become unmoored, it might become something to worry about. but financial conditions are really easy, and even with a quarter-point move from here, they probably still would be. jonathan: expectations matter, and you and i noted -- you and i know a ton of people who think the yields won't go higher because the fed will step in and

extend their bond buying. i am wondering if they don't, how big the air pocket is for treasuries. does seem to be widespread consensus about that. i don't get the sense that they are eager to jump in at this stage of the game. so maybe that does give us a bit of a pop here. but the realistic situation is we still have a lot of bad news to get through over the next quarter or so, and i think that in and of itself will probably limit the appreciation of yields from here. jonathan: it is interesting that the disruption of the next few months would keep a lid on treasury yields, but it won't keep a floor on how tight credit spreads can go. rallying, but yields are limited on treasuries. square that for me. make sense of that for me. if it matters for treasuries, why doesn't it matter for credit? kathy: i think credit spreads

are about as tight as they can go for the time being. maybe they can extend a bit further. high-yield is much more like the stock market and the treasury market, so they are looking forward at earnings coming back and cash flows improving. the search for yield, it is all driving the cyclical rally in credit. i think it continues over the next six months to a year or so, but a lot of it has been done already, and the lower credit quality is certainly vulnerable to some sort of bad news here because, particularly in the high-yield world, the lowest rated bonds, ccc's, etc. have rallied so much in the way of reward, less for risk. tom: what are people actually doing with their money now? schwab has the wonderful ability to see not what we say, not what we talk, but what we do.

what are we doing when you look at bond bill endnote flows? -- bond bill and note flows? kathy: we see shorter duration, higher quality bonds. we have a pretty large cohort of retirees of people near retirement. they really haven't changed the way they look at things, but shortening duration, keeping duration short with yields to move up, seems to be the major trend monks to the bond investors. to go to something jon was talking about earlier. this doesn't feel comfortable. i am looking at credit markets. i am looking at ccc bond yields. basically, these are the bonds that are the riskiest of risky. they are the closest to default. yields on this debt are the lowest since 2014. i'm also looking at the fact

that you have companies burning through cash in an increasing number before they even pay interest and other expenses. at what point is this unsustainable? how long do they have before we have to get that vaccine or something to end the pandemic for them to stay in business? kathy: that is the worrisome part about high-yield, the real risk. that cash burn is really picking up, and the leverage is very high. they need to get things to improve pretty quickly if we don't get real light at the end of the tunnel in the first quarter. we will see those bankruptcies pickup and defaults increase. what we are worried about is the recovery rates will be quite low. that is why we are really cautious about the high-yield market. lisa: who is going to bear the brunt of those losses? kathy: oh gosh. [laughter] it is going to be probably spread out pretty well. we have a pretty wide swath of

people who have been in the defaults and losses. you are going to feel it, and investment following , but also some of the specialized funds. the active managers like to tell you that they know which are the good bonds and which are not. [laughter] tom: really? lisa: shade. i am just reflecting what i am told. jonathan: i hear the same thing, kathy. they always hold the good bonds. they never hold the bad bonds. thank you. kathy jones of charles schwab, the center for financial research. we just had two fantastic fixed-income guests. greg peters of pgim yesterday, kathy jones this morning. what greg peters said was debt, bottom of

the pile stuff. spreads now are tighter than they were before the pandemic. just get your mind around that. visualize it. spreads now on the junkie asked -- the junkiest of junk are tighter now than they were before the pendant. that is unreal. tom: it is different than 2006, but not by much. it is a different model, but everyone is searching for the of a basis/100 point. it is money that typically can't go to equities, and it's got to find a place to go. i go back to sir john templeton a million years ago. he told me there will be a shortage of bonds. that's where we are right now. ,onathan: lisa, your thoughts ccc's? lisa: if you look at all in

yields, all in borrowing costs, it is the lowest going back to 2014. i find this really interesting at a time when bloomberg news about the article this morning that nearly 50 companies out of the universe of 600 are now burning through cash before they even pay their baseline expenses. we are talking about carnival and other travel companies in the lower rated ranks of corporate america. i am wondering at what point this is unsustainable. at what point will lenders say we don't want to lend to a company where we don't know how long this bridge is because we still don't know. jonathan: it is an amazing chart and a phenomenal year. justimes this year, i've felt so uncomfortable where this market is. i feel that way again this morning. tom: all i can say is ferro is on the edge of abramowitz gloom. i don't know what to say. this is important. ben laidler in his morning note,

and i am going to bring in charles cantor of neuberger berman, unabashed bulls, they see a growth recovery into 2021. the bulls are pricing away from what you are talking about two optimism. jonathan: before i cal get calld mr. abramowicz anytime soon, i thing it is right we have a vaccine program. where the market is relative to the economy is a different story. t ko ofup, dr. alber the yale school of medicine. this is bloomberg. ritika: with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. president trump is excited to sign a bill that could lead to chinese companies getting kicked off american stock exchange's. the measure approved by congress calls for u.s. regulators to review the companies'

financial results. it may be president trump's last chance to shape the fed. the senate is expected today to confirm the nomination of christopher waller to serve on the federal reserve board. weiler has been the research director at the st. louis fed. in germany, chancellor angela merkel says the partial lockdown will be. extended by three weeks. bars, gems -- will be extended by three weeks. yms, and cinemas will be closed. france is putting pressure on european union negotiators not to make any more trade concessions to the u.k.. the french are warning they could veto a bridge that deal between the eu and the u.k. if they don't like the terms. negotiators trying to reach an agreement in the next few days. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries.

i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> going into next year, -- what i can say

is, of course, we are ramping up production extremely quickly. jonathan: sean merritt thereof biontech, the chief commercial officer. good morning. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. here's the price action this thursday morning. highs at thetime close on wednesday. we add two points to that on the s&p 500. the euro, new high for 2020. kit juckes coming up in about 40 minutes. we will talk about that. yields with a lift through the week, 0.9393% on the u.s. ten-year. a week out from the ecb, you get to the fed. two big meetings coming up in the month of december. tom: a nice flip from red and green on the screen to all green, with spx up a point in the dow up 21 points as well. a lift to the market this morning.

joins us, albert ko with the gill school of medicine -- with the yale school of medicine, particularly on more interesting bacteria and vaccines of africa, and he joins us this morning on where we are in this pandemic. you know from your work at m.i.t. that pandemics are described by the movement and dynamics of differential equations. we've got the movement now of cases, the movement of hospitalizations, the movement of deaths, which is tragic this morning. which should we focus on as we try to gauge and understand this pandemic? dr. ko: thank you very much for having me back again. it is a real pleasure. to, transmission dynamics of infectious disease follow certain mathematical principles. one of those is exponential growth.

--one person infects to four.s two, two in fact hospitalizations tell us how bad our hospitals are suffering now. how bad wetell us are going to be in about three or four weeks in terms of hospitalizations and intensive care. this is all very concerning, what is happening at the moment. tom: if we look at the vectors there's major steepness in the united kingdom, major reversion in new york city to trends seen in april or may. what have you learned about this pandemic that can help us change and bend those vectors? dr. ko: we've learned a lot about what can be done to effectively flatten the curve or

get ahead of the curve in preventing resurgence is. distancing,social decreasing super spreading events by limiting gatherings. when things work better done proactively. we are already in the middle of a surge. downder to bend that curve , those interventions need to be in limited now, and we will only see their impact three or four weeks from now. if you manage to target the vaccinations towards the most at risk in society, can you pull back these before you get anywhere near herd immunity? think: first of all, i that is an important question. i thing we have to understand that the first groups are going to be prioritized that are

vulnerable with respect to their role in society, and the others , the nursingerable home in the elderly, and the people who work with nursing home residents, the herd now we are only a small fraction of americans in the u.s. that have been infected with the virus. we are not going to be reaching the immunity by the time vaccine comes. so the vaccine is going to be really important in rolling that out quickly. it is going to be important in terms of building immunity and controlling transmission in the long run. jon'sto build up on point, we are looking at a stay-at-home order in los angeles, and i financial figures in a number of spots throughout the nation when you look at the

virus counts. at this point, is there anything other than rolling lockdowns or stay-at-home orders that could potentially control this a little bit more before we get to that herd immunity, which is months away still? road tothere's a long getting vaccines implemented at the population level we will see effects in prevention. would get those six month from now, if not longer. so what needs to be done now, it really goes back to the basics of the use of face masks, preventing spread and transmission, decreasing super spreading events, whether limiting gatherings, and ultimately, it is those targeted measures, whether targeted , places of restaurants

where people are gathering and transmission is occurring, is ultimately stay home, stay hates -- stay safe orders and lockdowns. europe has already done this. the united states may need to do this to control this surge. always great to catch up with you, sir. come back soon. a lot of people are talking about the need to get to herd immunity before we can get anywhere near what people might perceive to be normal. if you can address this vaccine and target it very specifically at the most at risk in society, you can really do something about it. i hate having this conversation. you can do a lot about the death rate and some of the percentages because some of the most at risk skew that number. it is not about cutting to herd immunity before you pull back restrictions. it is about vaccinating the most at risk in society before you can pull things back. tom: you are dead on about that.

i really want to point out here, i have yet to hear a single pro about herductively immunity. the issue is one single part of the equation, which is the very verlyn's -- the virulence of this virus. it is not the flu. it is not the common cold. herd immunity medics simply don't work. jonathan: coming up on the markets, daniel morris, bnp paribas chief investment strategist, as we count you down to an ecb decision a week today, with the euro-dollar at the highs for 2020. some real dollar weakness starting to come through this market in the last couple of weeks. there's the board. equity futures up around two points. in the bond market, there's your move. there are a .941% is your yield.

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>> the world is desperate for yield. the world is desperate for income. >> with a vaccine inside, there is much hope. >> entrepreneurial america will come back. >> there is pent-up demand for getting out of the house. >> there is enormous stimulus that is yet to be spent. >> even though 2021 is supposed to be a good year, you may start off in a deep hole. >> certainly some support is going to be needed going forward. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. tom: good morning, everyone.