in our city, state, and country are not going to return from this, people are as stretched as they can be. been --ea leaves have have never been harder to read. that markets are getting ahead of the politics. ,> stimulus is not there yet and you have a complete lack of good ordination. >> this is bloomberg surveillance. >> from new york and london, good morning. this is bloomberg surveillance live on bloomberg tv and radio, alongside tom keene and lisa, i am jonathan ferro. futures up about three points on the s&p 500. decision 40 an ecb five minutes away at 12091. tom: it is a focus for europe

and maybe the united kingdom, today the ecp meeting is a focus -- ecb meeting is a focus for america. i have to go to the real yield and i do not know -- i do not mean your platform, i mean the 10 year inflation-adjusted yield. point 005%.ve one look at the german two year that screams disinflation. jonathan: i will take the promo and build on it. we have talked a long time about rates low for longer and we have to talk about financial conditions easier for longer, that has to be the message. focus on our commitments and the duration in this market with metrics -- max flexibility. that will be the story worldwide. tom: i make jokes about it. johnny could not get a beer in frankfurt the first time he did his work on ecb meetings. how close to japan, tokyo is christine lagarde?

jonathan: in terms of the bond market and amount they are buying? everything coming out of the beiphery, net issuance, will bought by the ecp. -- ecb. net supply coming out of europe, most of it will get sucked up by the ecb. that is the market and what you have to deal with. that is part of the reason for subzero-year-olds in portugal and record low yields in italy. that is why people think it is a bond market. you will have to get used to it. here, and the duration will be important. isabel was talking about that with blackrock. the duration is of more interest. equityolds into the markets, futures down 30,000, and look at the ipo markets. i know you have your 8000 shares of doordash, did you get the 8000 shares of airbnb. jonathan: i wish i had gotten an

allocation. you will love this quote. he said "we priced our stock where we did not take every last dollar off the table, but where we feel it is a true reflection of our fundamentals." lisa: basically they are sharing our shares doubled but we view asm as half as worthwhile everyone out there. let us look at what we are checking through the day and let us check the numbers. 500 billion euros of additional assets is the expectation for this rate decision. they are also expected to extend their bond buying through the end of next year, buying a bridge for policymakers, which is how i look at this. you will see asset prices go up as they keep financial conditions easier, that the question is what will help the fundamental economy, probably not this. we will get a sense of the loss of momentum in the united states

and initial and continuing job claims and anss inflation rate. it is expected to remain weak, but the question is how much urgency does this put on washington, d.c. template at their act together. they are having talks about talks, but tom you got it right, they are not coming to an agreement as quickly as people would like. today we are getting the fda panel meeting to discuss pfizer's vaccine and hopefully they will sign off on emergency evacuation use -- emergency use, and as we talk about policy, 3000 individuals died yesterday from covid-19, and that is more than the number of people who died in 911 and we are looking at an acceleration into one of the toughest seasons were a virus. jonathan: it is a tragic loss-of-life and we talked about it so many times as many people

have, but it is a tragedy that we have become desensitized to some of the numbers as they get bigger. that is true of the labor market. we will do a couple of things, we will run you through the ecb decision and 45 minutes and get you to the news conference. before we go over to frankfurt we need to look at jobless claims. , 725,000.imate tom: first thing i thought about when i got up for my birthday hangover, and this is serious, we come up on a jobs day early in january and this claims report is three away, where we recalibrate right now with weekly data to trying get to a labor report. the first of 2021 which will be absolutely critical. jonathan: let us turn to the market and get you up to speed on what is happening with equities. equities have been lower off of the back of the story about facebook. futures unchanged on the s&p

500, south of 3700. we preach to that level for the first time that week. one .20 86. yields come in about a basis point. 0.9245%. ringing is robert tip -- weighing in is robert tipp. what is the team looking for? robert: we are looking for an extension and we believe it will be a nonevent. we are committed to buying through the middle of next year and they will be expanding that, and they have aggressively stocked up this market supply. they have absorbed it. i think it is one of those by the rumor issues. we saw that before with the ecb and markets, gets to the expensive end of the range by

the time they announced the big round of stimulus and it looks like that is where we are. tom: i am going to go imf green book on you, the same financial stability report. there are all of these crosscurrents. the great presumption is that these are smooth curves and things believes into the future. are we underplaying the tail risk, or shocks and jump conditions that we could see within the price of fixed income? robert: yes and no, we are seeing it every day, men -- many bungee jobs and intraday movements. by the time you get to the end of it, there is volunteered -- volatility. happy birthday, by the way. at the announcement rate of the ecb and the tenure swap rate. traverse,that used to 100 basis points during the 2015 to 2018 period. that is when they went to the

big qe, and they had 100 days of point range. yield, wein 10 year have not seen a 100 basis point range, we have seen maybe 80. the overall range of fluctuation has been compressed, and the reason is that the central banks locked themselves into being stock at their lower bounds. downhat is really pulling one end of the yield curve with increasing conviction. however they are holding it down, the range is becoming bound. lisa: let us broaden out and get an overall thesis. do you think it is time to go against the consensus? robert: yes, against the consensus. know, there are only so many negatives i can take at this time of day. lisa: it is fine, carry-on. shahab: the reflation theme -- robert: the reflation theme in

europe, they will be low in range and the opportunity is not from the interest rate side, but the spread side. euro denominated hard currency, structure product, high-quality, that will perform well. gonee u.s., our range has very high levels relative to european levels. my carol -- my colleague was pointing out the 10 year. for the few on this coming in not all the time on fixed income, 10 years forward, the market is priced for u.s. 10 year to be 150 over european. is extremely high. you are looking at two year -- 20 year highs which means that u.s. rates are extended, approaching 1% on the 10 year,

treasury, yields rising to that level, it is not a prelude to the market -- prelude to the bear market, that was the market. we are getting used to this idea that monetary accommodation will create an inflationary way to kill the bond market. what we are looking at is a world that is moving to progressively lower ranges, and have people that stay with us strategy stay in their long-term fixed income and then outperform cash over the long-term. ,onathan: got to keep it quick first question for president , what is it? robert: how is the study of your inflation mandate going? in my opinion they are shooting for a target that is that you -- unreasonable. i think they might be going to extreme. i think they need a more reasonable target that will give

them a more balanced policy. jonathan: they have got to believe they will hit it in the next five to 10 years. great to catch up and hear from you. pgim top strategist doubting the ecb's ability to read -- to reach its mandate. i believe that we will get projections when the conference starts off. they are set to be well off that line in the sand. tom: that is what you and mickey do best.-- mckee i ignore them because they are never right. what is necessary is that legarde needs to use that triple negative and that will bring that to a halt. lisa: only if you use your triple leverage cash bond. jonathan: if she was as gloomy, what could you get off of the back of the assessment?

what kind of whales? decide if we not will not raise interest rates and not in placement -- inflation. lisa: she is taking her money in triple leverage cash. tom: they are moving all of the duration into a cash equivalent. jonathan: coming up on the ofgram, credit suisse head macro and trading stress today. i will sort it out later. we are negative 10th of 1%.

>> they agree that talk should continue despite major differences. they said a decision would be made on the future of negotiations. airbnb's initial public office it -- offering is out to a record late -- record year. it is above the market range to raise $3.5 billion. that gives airbnb a market value of 47 billion. shares became -- began trading today. raised 360ave billion on u.s. exchanges. coming up, the airbnb ceo and cofounder at 10:00 a.m. in new york and 3:00 p.m. in london. elon musk is looking at the bright side. the first high altitude test flight of space acts ended in a

massive fireball. at must sees the mission as success. everything went smoothly until an ending. day onnews 24 hours a air and on bloomberg quick take. this is bloomberg. ♪

unemploymenttting to virtually almost nothing is a very bad idea.

and, so i am against that. i think that a better way to go that weartisan plan have put together, that is the way to go. jonathan: senator chuck schumer of new york, the senate minority leader weighing in on the efforts to agree to a festival -- fiscal package in washington. good morning, live from london and new york, i am jonathan ferro. a quick look at the price action. equity futures at three points. the euro-dollar not doing much. bond markets yield lower by a couple of basis points, 0.979%. there are some analysts that plate catch up, they watch the stock rip away and update the price. and then there is ryan covering tesla, and wow did that guy make

a call. tom: i have never seen this. , hold, ands buy sell. mr. brinkman has made the most courageous call. let me go to the anr screen. price, 540, 300, 2.25, and 780 dollars per share, and mr. brinkman says today, that $90 a share. jonathan: calling tesla " dramatically overvalued and the data strongly is suggestive of the idea that something apart from the fundamentals, might be driving the shares higher." lisa: you do not say. notom's point about bravery, wants to get on the bad side mag

capital quickly and busily. how do you give an accurate call of a company when it seems to be endless demand regardless of fundamentals? at some point that is a story of 2020. jonathan: are you saying that maybe mr. brinkman not be invited for tea anytime soon at tesla, is that what you are suggesting? lisa: maybe they like contentious t, -- tea. is: i know mr. diamond always watching surveillance, we want to get ryan on to talk about this call. us, our chief washington correspondent. i read the first two or three of the 40 page brief as mr. trump and attorney generals go to the supreme court, what does a senator from texas to when he gets up in front of the supreme court to represent his president? what does he do? his 2024 launches

presidential campaign. this is purely politics, and what i talk to republicans who are part of the administration, and staffers as i have daily since election day, there is a very real understanding that this is a political issue. now, we should also note that there are several questions as it relates to structural issues pertaining to democratic elections. that is a conversation that will likely continue in the congressional invest get tori -- investigatory way. tom: what is the chief justice going to do? we have seen every single court crush these people. they are squirreling around -- screwing around with john roberts. what is the process you perceive on how the chief justice will handle this. kevin: the supreme court has really sent a president and a signal that they will not be politicized and that this is an

institution that will not be politicized no matter the consequences. lisa: talking about being politicized we are talking about some kind of fiscal support efforts in washington, d.c.. there of been hopes about talks about talks, but fewer today as there seems to be no meeting of the minds and mitch mcconnell and nancy pelosi do not seem to have a tail today -- tete-a-tete on the calendar. are we losing something? kevin: based upon my conversations yesterday i do not think they are losing steam. i think right now is when the back channel conversations are occurring as all three parties including the executive branch, the current one, are looking through their various proposals that they put forth and also counting the caucus votes. i can tell you that i spoke with one member of congress yesterday who told me that the meetings with republican leadership are happening truly multiple meetings throughout the day.

these conversations are continuous, and i think we have entered into the phase where the conversation in front -- behind the podiums in a public forum for the next 24 hours will be less. how important is it that we have settled on a price? it would be disingenuous to say we have not made any progress at all when it is clear when they seem to have agreed on a number which is something they did not have over the last several months. massive, is huge and it is incredibly important because up until this point, and i do not want to say we are at the point of dotting the i'ss and crossing the t's, but we are at the point where we are figuring out where money would go in the 916 billion proposal range, and that is a massive development and a major breakthrough, and it ought to be treated as such. jonathan: great to catch up as

always. kevin down in washington, d.c.. getting news from the european central bank, or rather news around it. this is coming from the team at bloomberg. european watchdogs are leaning towards extend -- extending the ban on thanksgiving and into next year while making -- while allowing some lenders make payoffs if they show significant financial strength. looking at bank equity, the lows are going into this call about 20 minutes away, down 1.45%. an erosionooking at of yield, the real yield in the u.s. down to 1.0081. when we see these announcements, and not just the press conference but the pending announcement that john sliced through, these could really move these markets further. jonathan: it is so difficult for the banks and the bankers will tell you that part of the

attractive propositions, one of the few of them was what they offered in the buyback capital return program, the capitals and the dividends and the regulators have prevented that in europe and elsewhere. the monetary policy decision that comes in and about 20 minutes, we will talk about qe, size, and duration, but there will be returned targeted plans and they are trying to offset some of the negative rates, is it enough? that ist really, or what the market seems to be suggesting. there was a report of 3.7 trillion dollars of losses, that is what they estimate where banks -- what banks will lose where interest rates are. just to give you a scope of how much that weighs on their earnings and what can overcompensate that, especially if they cannot give the cash back to shareholders. jonathan: the numbers are incredible and we will cover them on "bloomberg surveillance."

suisseup shortly, credit as we count you down to the ecb decision. and tv,bloomberg radio this is bloomberg surveillance. ♪ . ♪ the usual gifts are just not going to cut it. we have to find something else. good luck! what does that mean? we are doomed. [laughter] that's it. i figured it out! we're going to give togetherness. that sounds dumb. we're going to take all those family moments and package them. hmm. [laughing] that works. wannit's timeight and for aerotrainer. a more effective total body fitness solution. (announcer) aerotrainer's ergodynamic design and four patented air chambers create maximum muscle activation for better results in less time. it allows for over 20 exercises.

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jonathan: from new york and london, good morning to you all, this is "bloomberg surveillance." says this is a waste of tape. that is true of the nasdaq today. it is down off of its biggest one-day drop in a month. futures on the s&p 500 coming in at .2%. the next up for this market if we get to the bond market is with the ecb, a call coming 15 minutes away, it is not about rates, but qa. -- qe. purchasehe emergency program will be extended or expanded. billion euros so. all-timear yeild is an

low around 50 basis points. to -63any, we are down basis points on a german ten-year. it is not about ecb buying, although that is not a large factor, it is just a believe that that will lead to anything in the future other than low-inflation or rates, and this story could be low for a whole lot longer. the line is about easy financial conditions for longer focused on the line for policymakers. let us finish on euro-dollar, high 120.178. that is off as we come into this year -- meeting. euro-dollar at 1.2082. many people have been asking what can they actually do about a strong euro other than talk? can they do something that stops at? that is a big unknown. and the question is where

is it a linear function? 121, 122? we are joined before the ecb meeting. let us stay on the moment -- the euro. non--- thens the and nonlinearity of a euro depreciation. layout the effect of a stronger euro. how is 1.22 different from 1.26, or 1.28? shahab: to be honest we cannot look at the euro in isolation, but at broader monetary conditions. if you look at the euro against the dollar, it is at the highest level close enough, but because so many other currencies have depreciated against the dollar it is lower than september when all of these concerns about valuation were out there. in the meantime we have had a strong rally in european equity markets. obviously when you have the

portuguese 10 year minus three basis points on the credit side, monetary conditions are easy. these are helping inflation expectations go up again judging by the five-year swap rates. at theselook considerations, i think, actually, euro devaluation is not such a problem. lisa: let us talk about what is a problem, and that is inflation. the expectation is that that this will be on the margin somewhat effective to help growth in the region. do you agree? kevin: i think the truth -- shahab: i think the truth of the matter is that if equity markets go up, then inflation will go up. we have seen other supportive like the -- factors, opec deal for oil prices. that is important to note. the second thing is that after a moment -- at the moment where

things stand, the economy is contracting. if you look at pmi numbers in q4, they point to contraction, that is why a discussion about more easing makes it relatively easy to expand next year, and that will also help gain inflation expectations. as long as the dollar downtrend is a general one, the kind of numbers you were talking about earlier are not going to undermine a broader recovery, particularly if the fund comes through, and that is a new variable that that -- that did not exist in the past. jonathan: a question on how you would respond as a participant to a bigger or smaller package in 10 minutes? 450 to 500 expect billion euros with an extension to year end. if it is bigger or smaller, how

does the euro respond. i have been trying to understand if additional qe is positive or negative? shahab: the way we have looked at this is that qe along these lines, asset purchases that we have had, it seems to encourage credit creation, and by extension, activity and so forth without necessarily undermining euro from a carrier perspective. that has been a general take, if all we see is more asset purchases and that is about it, then there is no real reason for the euro to be undermined. it requires something else in our view, a big deposit rate cut and something like that. that has its own problems that many have highlighted, and some believe that doing that hurts bank profitability and credit creations. as long as they stick to these kinds of plans, it is not a

problem. and once we get this out of the way, i would imagine the euro trying to go higher. tom: i have heard about risk which is about 15 years. this is the conundrum, we have a financial world and financialization of our system buttressed up against commercial bank accounting including credit suisse. i do not understand how the two work if you get a greater magnitude of negative rates, or a greater action by acb. house does that happen -- how does that happen smoothly or do you assume that there is a mother of all great shocks? shahab: it is the case that the big central banks that led the way with negative rates, for example, the ecb and bank of japan, they have stopped pushing on that for some time. and, asset purchases become the go to. japan also buys a lot of etf's.

that is helpful for the banking system by not allowing the rates to become more negative than they are already. to some extent you can argue that asset purchases are helpful. some would argue that over the long run if central banks are constantly having to prop up asset prices, that creates distortion and we can talk a long time about what those are. goes, as the here and now the market seems to like these kinds of actions, and you see that in the rising prices of commodities and many other related assets as well. lisa: just a build on what tom is talking about, the pain being felt in commercial banking, i want to give you more details. mckinsey estimates that the banks stand to lose trillions of dollars in revenue due to low

interest rates and credit losses. they are not expected to stave off default and other issues. if the economy does not accelerate at some point there has to be a problem. do you foresee the problem coming sooner or later? can these monetary policies stave off the default cycle that a lot of people have been expecting? shahab: the truth is that it appends on how quickly economies open. if they reopen quickly enough then the cash flows for these companies that are expected to run into problems certainly look a lot better, and if you add in the capacity of central banks to keep the system propped up the way they have been doing for some time, then i think that we might have more time than these kind of reports are hinting at, certainly the way the markets are trading at this point, and we have a situation where even though equity markets have rallied so much, we still have

many looking at the example of more fed using patches -- asset purchase viability. the central banks end up doing a lot to try and keep spirits alive and i think that is going to be the story for 2021 as well. that buys us a lot of time in my view. jonathan: just to finish on a philosophical question, do you consider central bank policy a distortion or part of the fundamentals? shahab: that is a really good question. it is a perspective and how many years you want to go out. i believe ultimately there is not a lot of choice for central banks in this post -- particular situation with the pandemic other than to take the policies they talk with the breakdown in many financial markets we saw in q1. that is the reality, and now what we are dealing with. in terms of the long wrong you

can -- run, you can argue that this generates different rates of capital pricing and different economic outcomes than would otherwise be the case. yes, it is true and it may lead to problems down the line, but given the hand they were dealt by the pandemic, i do not think there were many options, so we have to live with what we have that is leading to, as the price rises, cyclical price action and we do not want to worry too much if the distortion could be problematic. they could be but that is not the story for the current period . jonathan: great to catch up. the credit suisse head of fx and macro trading strategy. that decision 4.5 minutes away. tom: he nailed something that is important and you have had huge leadership over the past few

months, we cannot forget that this is a pandemic. this is a central banker going to a press conference that will be geeky bowties and pharaoh -- isms, and we still have in the backup -- in the backdrop a pandemic. jonathan: and i do not think she can be clearer than she already has been. this is about laying the foundations to have easy financial conditions for a long intod of time that goes 2021 that the government can issue debt at low interest rates and do something about their economies. this is about that choreography we have talked about between fiscal and monetary policy makers and i would have to say it has been more explicit in europe, the u.k., and across the eurozone than the united states. the calendar out, we have an extension one week on the u.s. budget deficit and today is december 10, and an eight days what happens with the government in washington?

tom: coming up we will ask run youickering, and through an ecb decision and then catch up with matt miller. the decision moments away on bloomberg tv and radio. this is bloomberg surveillance. ♪ news, athe first word coalition of states will succeed, and facebook will have to break up. thatwas part of a campaign was said to illegally crush competition. facebook calls the complaints revisionist history. both treasury secretary steven mnuchin and nancy pelosi are hopeful that they will be a deal on a new stimulus package. lawmakers working on a compromise plan phase two roadblocks, business liability and aid to states. close he says they will get it done. for the first time, daily --

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jonathan: for our audience worldwide, live on tv and radio this is "bloomberg surveillance" moments away from an ecb decision. worldwide across assets down in the equity market. futures negative on the nasdaq adding to the losses of yesterday's session by .6%. point -- .252 percent. yields, and five basis points on the italian 10 year to an all-time low. 54 basis points in italy.

and -63y zero in spain in germany. foreign exchange is a big focus. yeardollar the high of the 121, -- 1.2178. now it is a little bit higher. as we approach the 45 minute mark this is what you have to look for. rates, no change. purchaseut the asset program, the extension, and the size they might increase it by. look out for the long term refinancing option and yawned that, the projections that come and 45 minutes. the headlines are just crossing now and let us cross over to matt miller for more. getting the answer to the big one, which is 500 billion euros in extended bond buying. that is one of the four issues that we were looking out for.

we got the answer earlier to the bank loans, they know that they will lend 50 euros extra, and we got an answer to the dividend question. we know that the european regulators favor banning dividends until late 2021. now we are seeing that they will add another 500 billion to the bond buying program and they will keep buying 20 billion a month under the app, and they will explicit -- extend the program until march 2022. that splits it down the middle. analysts were telling us at least six months or 12 and now we are looking at a nine month extension. the only question left to answer is the currency and we will have to wait 45 minutes for that. jonathan: let us sit on that. the ecb committed to this decision, 500 billion is what most people expected. theee a commitment to take flexibility of the pandemic

emergency purchase program until march 2022, that is the reality of the situation and who knows if it goes further. matt: absolutely, and they are weighing on yields the way they -- you want to. a country has 162% debt to gdp ratio and people are willing to give italy money for 10 years and except a return of 50 basis points. this is what the ecb wants to do and they are adding loads -- long-term loans and they are hoping to get banks more money so they can lend it more easily. tom: that is the keyword, hoping. i look at this and the german yield and the two year yield where the litmus paper with the system coming in as solid. it is a lesser yield than what we saw, but isabel's brilliance on this this morning, this is hopebout duration and the

that miller talks about. to 2023.um is up jonathan: we will look at the italian 10-year yeilds. they are still near all-time lows. billionly expected 500 and a little bit of the discussion on how long it would be extended for. 2022, if to spring, some people expected it, it was remarkable. it is the story of the euro. euro-dollar higher up about one third of 1% total 1.2114. when they unveiled the projections, that is the opportunity to talk about the fx market weighing on inflation and the outlook for inflation to 2023. can you walk me through how they have navigated that and how you expect them to approach the issue when they talk at the bottom of the hour? matt: they are not expected to

talk much about the currency. we are still waiting for their forecast and this is one of the big problems. we are expecting them to say that 2020 is doing better than expected. and with be weaker, the unveiling of their inflation forecast out into 2023. the problem with the ecb, even that far out they are not expected to get up to 2% inflation. $1.21 for ther in euro, not only are their goods less competitive, but they are importing disinflation to some extent and that really hurts they are targeting up to and as close as they can get to less than 2%. you cannot see a way around mentioning in some way the currency, and even jawboning it is not expected to hold it down for too long. out direutting economic forecasts, they will not do a lot to get this higher

euro. matt: give our american audiences audiencesour american a vignette of the pandemic in berlin. matt: everyone thought germany had done a great job and the numbers kept climbing. the states put in lockdown lite closing restaurants and bars and leaving the stores and the numbers kept going higher. we have been locked down since november and we continue to hit record highs. they are talking about making it serious with curfews. tom: thank you so much. right now on this economy, kallum joins us. your observations of the duration that christine lagarde is looking out to into 2022 and 2023. kallum: i think what you have is a commitment to ease monetary policy beyond the horizon at which we would expect the euro

per zone -- eurozone economy to go back to pre-pandemic gdp. that will probably happen mid 2022. the ecb is more focused on inflation and inflation expectations than long-term rates which are already at historic lows. if the ecb can signal to market that it will create inflation once the economy is up, at least then the ecb can get a hold of a real interest rate, which a thing that it has lost control of, but that matters for economic outcome. about generating inflation or high expectation, which is why the euro becomes a big deal trying to achieve those higher expectations. lisa: the euro just shot higher than the dollar on the session and has come off a touch. 1.2111 on the day. there is a question to john's point talking about building the bridge for fiscal policymakers

to be able to borrow money and to spend, actually create the growth and inflation because monetary policymakers cannot do it alone. do you have a sense of how closely they are working, and is the extension by the ecb a sign that perhaps those fiscal talks are not going on track, or will not get going quickly enough? kallum: economic prediction -- conditions justify the monetary policy action. inflation expectations below 2%. huge output gaps across the euro zone and a historic shock that would have been a historic inflation in the mono see -- monetary policymakers care about that. when it comes to fiscal matters, what really matters is the joint budget, which will be negotiated at the upcoming summit today and tomorrow, and then you have the inclusive decision by the economy is tuesday, are we

really going to stick to the rules or will be suspended them? on the fiscal side governments have all of the permission they need to go and borrow. it happens that the economic conditions are prevailing that allows the ecb to supplement that fiscal policy with aggressive monetary policy stimulus. jonathan: here is the line from the ecb, "we will continue to monitor exchange rate's developments." that does not even land. euro-dollar is not a big deal right now. about .2%.d at the last meeting they committed to doing something. that's something everyone agreed on would be a 500 billion euro increase to the pandemic purchase program. they have done that. the view was to extended by six to nine months. they have done everything everybody expected and nothing more. news minutes there is a

conference, what is the objective? it is to raise inflation expectations so the ecb can reclaim its hold on real interest rates. to your point about the euro, step back and say the rise in improvement inn economic fundamentals in europe, fewhave risks over the next months, brexit, covid, and a more european friendly president in the u.s. and you have historic stimulus and likely a as europewth rate recaptures lost output from the pandemic. that is a fairly good situation. money will fall in over the next few years, and that is what is pushing the euro pirate -- euro higher. an ecb point of view, a stronger euro reduces

import costs and hurts its medium-term honesty -- monetary poly -- policy objectives. you could argue that the more stimulus that the ecb gives the andomy, the more the ecb fiscal policymakers undermine their medium-term 2% inflation target. jonathan: a rock and a hard place. great to catch up with you. why line, at the end is many people believe that qe for europe and more qe for europe is actually currency positive. that is a story. oliviamentioned yesterday and this goes back to the courageous santa marta -- seminar that was held in 2014. do youyou reflate, how do it? what is the actual process cleared --? i do not think anybody knows. any step away from this commitment --

tom: i thought you meant the show. could someone get my walker. jonathan: how do you step away from this. you should probably step away, i will see you in 2023. we will still be doing this. 2024, 2025. ♪

>> businesses in our city and state and country are not going to return from this. >> there are so many people out of work. >> the important thing is we are starting a new economic cycle right now. >> i worry markets are getting ahead of the politics. >> you have a complete lack of coordination. >> it is not that we will grow in 2021. it is, will it be enough? >> this is "bloomberg surveillance." tom: jonathan ferro, lisa abramowicz and tom keene on bl