♪ how do wages go up when there are some any people out of work? >> when you look at hiring, layoffs increase. that is a concern going forward. >> the really important thing to keep in mind as we are starting a brand-new economic cycle right now. >> i think a lot of this band-aid stimulus has been priced in. >> central bank's have locked themselves into being stuck at that effective lower bounds. >> it is not that we are not going to grow in 21. it is, will it be enough? >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: from new york and london, for our audience worldwide, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ," live on bloomberg tv and radio. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. equity futures up 20 on the s&p 500. we advanced 0.6%. new york city, the state of new york, governor cuomo with a

warning we could be heading for another lockdown. tom: some real caution here. for our worldwide audience, cuomo and de blasio barely on speaking terms, but they were on the same page yesterday about the seriousness of getting to 300,000, and the extrapolation i did off the bloomberg terminal this morning where 400,000 has modeled out in the vicinity of the third week of march. those are frightening numbers for all. jonathan: let's talk about the good news of the vaccine. one vaccine in the mix already being rolled out in the united states. maybe moderna joins the rollout in the coming days and weeks. tom: greattom: to see that nurse yesterday having the courage to be the first one, i believe in new york city. we saw this in the united kingdom and the last week. you wonder if we are going to vaccinate the federal open market committee. they are going to fall asleep, it is going to be such a boring meeting.

jonathan: i am not sure if i should take that seriously or not. [laughter] for the equity bulls they probably feel that way. lisa: you are correct. meeting,k about this and the vaccination of the members i guess, tom. withey question will be her guidance will be as far as extending bond purchases into longer bonds. questions around the potential for a taper tantrum if they don't deliver. taper tantrum meaning, what? not that much of a tantrum. also today, we get empire manufacturing data for the month december. in part, that is the first read on december, and the activity and manufacturing, which has been a strong suit in the state of new york. also today, joe biden heading to georgia ahead of those january senate runoffs.

the outcome of this, the leadership of the senate will determine what kind of stimulus bill we will be getting. i will to say this, if 2020 wasn't a bad enough year, we will all be dumped under a foot of snow starting wednesday. so it is just a great year all around. happy 2020. jonathan: lisa. [laughter] really? what am i dealing with this morning? tom, what are you singing? christmas." -- "white christmas." we want a foot of snow. we want a white christmas. we want december 17. jonathan: i will do my best to save the show. the price action shaping up as follows on the s&p 500, up about 22 points. four-day losing streak on the s&p 500 coming into today, the longest losing streak on the daily basis coming back to september. in the fx market, euro-dollar up

$1.2159. bank of america out with their fund manager survey this morning. lisa, i know you've read it. tom, i know you haven't. [laughter] the participants were asked when the vaccine will start positively impacting the economy. 42% said q2 2021. 19% said q3. i will get into the other details little later this morning. i think that is import for expectations management. a lot of what we are seeing in this market is firmly anchored by a better future. it seems to be the test for that future is around q2 next year. that is when people will want to see the incoming data start to improve materially because of this faxing rollout. that is what is indicated in the survey -- this faxing rollout. that is what is indicated in this -- this vaccine rollout. that is what is indicated in this survey. tom: in the equity market, while we wait for the proverbial end of the bridge, it will be

corporations adapting to reality. they can do that, where in other financial systems, they can't so much. jonathan: very true. joining us now is mona mahajan, allianz global investors u.s. investment strategist. we are doing better than we did two minutes ago. [laughter] the cash level in this is 4%. for b, that is a sell signal. i'm not sure how well you can lean on the survey, but i think it speaks to something a lot of people are concerned about, whether people got to bullish too quickly. your thoughts? mona: absolutely. our thoughts had been that when we would get the vaccine news and we wouldn't see the start of a rollout, markets would very look 12discount as they months ahead, as they always do, and they would see a future with more return to normalcy in future behavior. it has been remarkable to see that is kind of what is played out. we've seen the s&p up nearly 9%.

what has driven that has really been financials, energy and industrials. that is the return of this value sickle trade -- value cyclical trade that has dominated the headlines. argument there is an to be made that perhaps we have gone up a little too far, too fast. markets won't go up in a straight line for the next 12 months. so there is a bit of complacency that has settled in. you see that in credit spreads, for example. we think a period of consolidation, a pullback that leads to profit-taking sideways would probably make sense come but that is probably your technical opportunity to then ,hink about this thing for 2021 when we are going to see the true rollout of the vaccines and hopefully a true return to normalcy. tom: i look at some of the things away from the 12 stacks we look at on "surveillance." i look at small-cap, mid-cap, international, msci. great.

is the small-cap trend in place, and is that fixed into 22 anyone? -- into 2021? mona: generally, this has been pretty phenomenal over the last few weeks, when you look at a long-term perspective, over a 10 year horizon for example, small-cap versus large-cap, you could make the argument the you're still in the early innings of mean reversion. it has been that small and medium-size businesses that have really gotten hurt in an outsized way, so when with think about the recovery, these are the companies, if they do survive, that will thrive as we come out of the pandemic. so certainly over the next 12 month period, that trade remains intact as well. tom: early innings is a baseball allusion that mona is making. it is nine innings, jon. seventh-inning stretch. jonathan: what did you do on your day off? let's do this early. ho to use -- how did you

spend your day off? mona: we are getting things together for -- tom: we are getting things together for tottenham/liverpool. lisa, save us. lisa: we are talking about the shift into small-cap stocks, and you are not alone. survey also america highlighted a record 31% of respondents are long small caps versus large caps, and other record consensus trades. does the groupthink worry you? idea,certainly this trade and really this shift into cyclicals, small caps, even a non-us trade, it has become more and more consensus. that being said, i do think the numbers will speak for themselves as we get through this earnings recovery in 2021. when you look at the estimates in the forecast out there, we are looking at a 20% s&p earnings growth next year, which is phenomenal. but really, what is driving that earnings growth is going to be those under left sectors. we see financial up there,

energy up there. a lot of those recoveries, reopening plays are looking for a meaningful rebound in earnings. so i think we will continue to get momentum as long as we continue to see that earnings and on the mental -- that earnings and fundamental earnings driver behind it. jonathan: my last question for you come of the fiscal package, the discussion down in d.c. how important is that for you in terms of your outlook medium-term? mona: i think it is going to be pretty essential to have some sort of economic stimulus to create this bridge we have all been talking about between now and when the vaccines are here in earnest. clearly, the 908 billion dollar package would be a step in the right direction. we are hopeful that that does happen within the next five to seven days or so, but if that doesn't happen, we remain pretty confident that early in the next presidential term, there will be a sizable fiscal package.

to us, it is just a matter of timing. we do think it is important. we think it is critical. hopefully -- we continue to feel that is a good part of our thesis. jonathan: it could become more challenging in the next several weeks or so. mona, thank you. my best to you and yours. mona mahajan, allianz global investors u.s. investment strategist. time is running out. pressure is building on both the house and the senate to put something to a vote in the next few days. someone with public service to the obama administration, he was scathing about the cost to history of the scale abundant lemon. he was scathing in his criticism

-- scale of unemployment. he was scathing in his criticism. jonathan: it is going to be a chorus on both sides of the aisle pushing for their respective leaders to get together and put something to a vote, and do it quickly. lisa: but there has been for months. this is what is concerning. everyone is saying this has to get done. it hasn't. where are we now which we are in november? [laughter] dead silence, i love it. jonathan: i had to check just to make sure. lisa: it is the longest year ever. jonathan: i think i only have three more shows left with you guys after this one for 2020. lisa: it's sad. jonathan: and i'm happy about it. don't cry. [laughter] just three days, and that is not directed at you, lisa. lisa abramowicz, jon ferro. tom keene is back, if you didn't notice. about a minute into the show,

straight off the rails. coming up later this hour, ian lyngen, bmo capital markets head of u.s. rates strategy. good morning. it is great to be with you. up 72 on the nasdaq. we advance. this is bloomberg. ♪ emma: with the first word news, i'm emma chandra. president-elect biden spoke after the electoral college sealed his win. he notes he won the same as president trump in 2016. mr. biden: at the time, president trump called his election victory a landslide. by the same standard, these numbers represent a clear victory then, and i respectfully suggest they do so now.

offered nodent trump public reaction to the vote. a grim milestone in the u.s. battle against the coronavirus. the death toll has now gone past 300,000. meanwhile, more than 600 hospitals across the country receiving vaccines this week. the first shots are being given to health care workers. the crude oil glut left behind by the coronavirus pandemic will clear by the end of next year. that is according to the international energy agency. still, the iea says demand will be lower for longer than expect it. the agency trimmed forecasts for world fuel consumption following a new wave of lockdowns. president trump praised outscoring -- praised outgoing .ttorney general william barr he is leaving later this month after being criticized by president trump last weekend.

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mr. biden: at the time, president trump called his electoral college tally a landslide.

by his own standards, these numbers represented a clear victory then, and i respectfully suggest they do so now. jonathan: president-elect joe biden hoping, looking to move past the turbulence of the postelection period of the last month or so. from new york and london this morning, good morning. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. thisrice action looks like in the equity market, up 27. we advance 0.7 5%. the s&p 500 they lift after four days of losses -- we advance 0.75%. after fourh a lift days of losses. as this imposing meeting -- as this fomc meeting begins, ends tomorrow, the treasury bears hoping for a green light from the fed tomorrow for yields to go higher. tom: i'm looking at the two-year .ield over the last three days

i am looking for confirmation on the german two-year yield as well. haven't gotten that this morning. maybe that is a fed meeting kind of move in the two-year yield. right now, kevin cirilli joins us, chief washington correspondent. i don't want to look back to the attorney general. i think that news is pretty much out there. i want to look forward to the lame-duck deputy attorney general, mr. rosen. kevin: there's widespread specular and about whether president trump would issue more pardons, and the scope of potential pardons. what i can tell you is that there remains a deep skepticism not just amongst democrats, but also republicans, about the individuals that president trump would choose to pardon. is a token of sorts

that he can play. if he were to make a significant pardon for an individual that would rattle folks in the national security world of the republican party, that would set him up without question as trying to carve out a path forward in the next presidential cycle ahead. department of justice intrude on the pardoning process? kevin: it can advise the president in terms of making decisions on that front, but the legalities of this is a conversation that lawyers throughout the country, constitutional lawyers in particular, have been speculating about for quite some time. lisa: how much energy is there in washington actually committed to looking back at the election, and looking at the next couple of months, and how much the energy is completely and squarely on whether a not it billion or $908

billion fiscal support plan? kevin: as congressman tom reed, a republican from new york but that they are hoping for a "christmas miracle" with regards to fiscal stimulus. this is been something that has really frustrated rank-and-file members, especially if they have to go home to a holiday empty-handed. lawmakers and leadership could have chosen a path that, on the day of vaccinations finally being administered to americans, there had been a moment of bipartisanship and fiscal support and aid coming for main street america. they opted not to do that. beyond that, in terms of the investigations, based upon the political strategists i talk with, especially on the conservative side, they feel that there is definitely an appetite amongst republicans to look into some of the business dealings pertaining to members

of president-elect joe biden's family, including hunter biden. the investigations, we are going to have to wait and see. if republicans keep control of the senate after georgia, then yes, they will be investigations into election security, as well as into members of -- as well as into hunter biden. but if democrats keep control, they have the ability to set the agenda, so that will not play capitothe halls of the l, but it will play out another media spheres. jonathan: a lot is hinging on the boat in january -- the vote on january 5 in georgia. i just wonder how lonely leadership is down in d.c. this morning, given the chorus we are hearing just to put a bipartisan bill to the vote. kevin: they are lonely, but they are powerful. speaker pelosi and leader mcconnell have been able to drive this political stare down for months. they have kept these

negotiations incredibly close. the rank-and-file numbers have not had come on either side, a significant public revolt against leadership that would force them to do some type of vote. and as a result of that, leader mcconnell and speaker pelosi are still holding all of their cards at their power in these stimulus negotiations, or lack thereof. tom: i look at the washington ballet, all wrapped around egos and that. ambassador bolton wrote a book and all of that. does barr write a book? is he in a position to put out 800 pages that no one will read? kevin: this is a conversation that everyone wants to know in washington, d.c. because they want to know if ag barr, who has deep ties to the bush world of yesteryear, what type of voice will he want to develop in the long-term? that is the biggest unknown, and as a result of that, the

intrigue and the palace intrigue this morning is running rampant into attorney general william barr's perspective and view of history. jonathan: 800 pages that no one will read. [laughter] tom: you buy the book and you say you own it, you know? jonathan: kevin is so good at this now. he just lets it all slide. tom: he's just like you. jonathan: carry-on. [laughter] kevin, great to catch up. thank you. kevin cirilli, bloomberg chief washington correspondent. tom keene, i know what to buy you for christmas. a book with 800 pages that you will pretend you read. tom: some of them so like hot cakes and all that, mr. woodward's book and mr. bolton's book. can you imagine two volumes from president trump? i don't know. jonathan: two massive volumes from president obama, so why not? tom: can we talk about the markets? all you want to do is talk about

-- jonathan: please do. [laughter] you focused on attorney general barr, not me. let's be clear about that. tom: i'm sorry, i look at britain, i look at the u.s. it is unimaginable that we could get negative rates here. if that the surprise for 2021? jonathan: the front end has an elephant sitting on top of it. it is the federal reserve with the reaction function skewed asymmetrically, which basically means if things get worse, they are going to do more, and if things get better, they won't do anything. the outlook for rates at the front end are not going out anytime soon. it is at the long end that things get interesting on tens and 30's. the yield is higher here. i think people need to believe the fed is not going to step in and put a lid on it. tom: what does the fed do with 0.08%, 0.07%? i don't think they do

anything, tom. i think that is the whole point. i think they like where the front end is. tom: it's like japan. jonathan: i'm with you. tom: it's like japanification. jonathan: we should talk more about it. tom: we can. jonathan: from london and new york this morning, good morning. the usual gifts are just not going to cut it. we have to find something else. good luck! what does that mean? we are doomed. [laughter] that's it. i figured it out! we're going to give togetherness. that sounds dumb. we're going to take all those family moments and package them. hmm. [laughing] that works.

♪ jonathan: from new york and london, for our audience worldwide, good morning to you all on number tv and radio. four-day losing streak on the s&p coming into tuesday. we undo some of that little bit. we come up by about 0.7% on the s&p 500. on the nasdaq, we advanced 0.6%. we touched on the bank of america fund manager survey a little earlier this morning. a record long into the small caps versus large caps, 31% of respondents. a lot of people getting behind the small caps story. we can talk about that a little later this morning. i will continue the story from bank of america. they are looking at a record number of respondents looking for higher long-term yields. can yields go much higher? yields up on the 10 year to

0.9%. that is pertinent for the federal reserve meeting tomorrow. will they extend their asset purchase program? that has been the number one question i've heard asked from the bond market and those in fixed income. switch of the board, and i will finish on this from the fund manager survey. your most crowded trades at the moment, still number one come along tech. number two, short the dollar. --ber three come along number three, long bitcoin. unbelievable. short dollar consensus, long bitcoin in the mix now. number three crowded trade. tom: thanks for the huge response to the professor with us a number of days ago. just ask her nearly fired up he was, with bitcoin and teen thousand $362 -- with bitcoin $19,362.

ian lyngen is with us, of bmo capital markets. he writes extremely dense, hugely read notes on wall street. what you do today is you look at a powell that will be very dovish. why will he be dovish in the present tense as he tends to look out in the future? ian: i do think he has a bias at the tin the cycle to attempt to out-dove even the most dovish expectations placed in the market. there is an open question, as you pointed out earlier, about what happens with the extension of the weighted average maturity of purchases, and that will be the -- or that will drive the initial response in the treasury market. if we don't get the whim extension, what we will look is -- what we will look for his outcome-based purchases in 2021 and beyond. tom: the fed controls somewhere in the vicinity of seven years,

10 years. over yet the point where the fed controls seven-week paper? ian: i would say that the fed's control of the treasury market has moved well beyond the two and three year part of the curve we tend to think of as the front end. we are defining the front end is now to include the five-year sector, and that is just the reality of an environment where the dead has no intention -- where the fed has no intention of moving the market for a long time. lisa: what are we looking at in terms of fed ownership eventually a longer dated bonds? are we looking at 70% of 20 year bonds that fed is going to own? ian: i don't think we will ultimately get to the point where the fed runs up against their limits in the way that we saw in europe because recall in europe, they've had a lot of issues with their bond buying didn't not because they have the will to expand the balance sheet, but they simply ran out of bonds to buy. look at washington.

look at the treasury department. we are not going to run out of bonds to buy anytime soon. they will buy more. ian, why would you have state contingent forward guidance around the asset purchase program, which could lead to a premature tightening of financial conditions and the economy picks up pretty quickly next year? why wouldn't you just do what the ecb has done and kicked the can down the road, and not leave it open until the economic data dictates or at least painted picture of what the market believes it is going to do next? ian: i think the short answer is credibility. the fed wants to give the market the information that they have, explain the reaction function because the fact of the matter is, if we actually see inflation takeoff and the reflationary trade gets it right, the fed needs to be in a position to respond if it is a true demand-side inflation that they want to see. jonathan: i hope they don't want

to respond to that. i hope the story in the effort of communication over the last six months or so was that even if that happens, we will let it go for little bit. ian: well, they are not going to respond to supply-side headwind inflation, and responding in the context of their new framework i think is the nuance worth making. they are not going to respond to inflation in the way that they might have traditionally, but if we find ourselves in a situation where inflation really is coming back on the upside of expectations come of the market needs to have confidence that the fed will eventually step in and do something. lisa: taking a step back, there is a more fundamental question that i still am uncertain on, this idea of wood rates be that much higher if the fed wasn't sitting on, to some degree, the long end? even though the expedition that they will buy bonds in other words, could rates really rise all that much when you have such muted inflation expectations,

such eu debt overhang, and such a massive productivity gap, that it is really unclear how we are going to bridge that. ian: that is a great point. one of my core tenets in the market is that longer dated rates are set by inflation and growth expectations globally, and they are not a function of supply and demand, which means to some extent, they are not a function of fed buying. if the fed were to step away, the feedback loop between an increase in higher rates which that would do to risk assets, and then flight to quality i think is the important cycle that i would be watching. i don't think without the fed, you could see 10 year yields above 1.5% without crashing the equity market. tom: i've got to make some money on q1 of 2021. there's three variables in the equation. the nominal yield, inflation expectations, and the real yield. ,hich is the tradable event

nominal yield, real yield, or inflation expert patients? -- inflation expectations? inflationnk breakevens, the 10 year sector, that is where you will have a breakout even if the fed is continuing to push further out the curve. expectations are really going to start booming once the year gets underway. jon, that is fascinating. the real yield doesn't matter. jonathan: that's a great question, tom. i can explore it further with ian right now. real yields could even be more negative than it is now. if that's what you're suggesting? ian: that's exactly what i am suggesting, and the fed would like to see that. we all want real yields as slow as possible as it spurs the -- real yields that yields as low as

possible because it spurs the economy even further. it is that time of year you are trying to be light about things, but i don't now, i was really taken aback by the news. lisa and i are living it here. all of our viewers are living it. if we are not laughing about it, we can't get through this. jonathan: i couldn't agree with you more. it is just a really difficult time. london overnight going into tier three. tom: stop, stop. what does tears remain for you? -- what does tier three mean for you? jonathan: for me personally, i am still coming's work. i am lucky. for other people, restaurants will have to close. they will not be allowed to have people dining in. those hotels probably won't be able to remain open at this point going into christmas. it is just going to be a really difficult time.

nonessential stores, whatever is categorized as nonessential stores, will have to close. ian: in new york come up -- lisa: in new york we are not having that mandate yet, but we are going to have a foot of snow. so what happens to outdoor dining? jonathan: you have to believe that's done already. ian: it is gallows humor, -- lisa: it is gallows humor, as tom was saying. what more can happen, solar flares? jonathan: for the people that run these businesses, to be told that you got to close up shop and have no one follow up with a check i think is just absolutely brutal. tom: yes it is. jonathan: the businesses that took delivery of stock this week in london, for instance, thinking they've got a busy week got a night to play with? tom: the three of us have been hugely sequestered, and

bloomberg has had a great team of people making that easy for us. but i will tell you, the few restaurants i have been to, i don't know how they do it after just that marginal indoor experience of the last couple of weeks. i am making a joke about lisa and snowshoes going down to whole paycheck, but the reality is nobody is going to be eating outside in a foot of snow jonathan: the reality is of the year so far that the conversation over the economy is completely separate from the conversation around the market, and that has been true for the last nine months. i have had that in everything go conversation i've had with a guest, whether on this program or elsewhere. we've got a choice to make. you want to talk about the economy, is happening right now? or do you want to talk about the market in the future? i think we had that conversation last week with a guest on this program, that if you are running microstrategy or market strategy, but you're also the chief economist, you have to go

on the call now and ask them, which had to you want me to wear when i answer this question? do you want me to be the market strategist or the economist? i am going to be at the economist in the near term. to: i am to go back matthew's lives eddie -- two zettilives eddie -- matt li at deutsche bank. early underlining this long-term unemployment is a social issue. lisa: this divergence cannot continue indefinitely. i think about the credit crunch amongst smaller companies, how they haven't had access to the same kind of financing larger companies have. at a certain point, that does affect the markets. it does affect the real economy. it has to come together at some point. jonathan: well, right now it doesn't, and the view is that things get better once the vaccination rollout really ramps up. there are two worries around

vaccinations starting. one is compliance to the rules that exist right now to make sure things don't get worse in wo is theime, and t pressure on leadership to get delivered,ckage and delivered quickly. from new york and london this morning, good morning. for our audience worldwide which was futures up 0.7%, this is bloomberg. ♪ with the first word news, i'm emma chandra. joe biden is calling on the american people to accept the outcome of the presidential election. hours after the electoral college sealed his victory, biden called on the country to "turn the page" on what he calls an unprecedented assault on democracy. president trump had no public reaction to the vote. it turns out more u.s. agencies were targeted by russian hackers . their apartment of homeland security was hit -- the

department of homeland security was hit. e -- several agencies have been told to disconnect with software that the russian hackers manipulated to break into networks. the ceo of the hong kong exchange has been dubbed mr. .hina he has said that his success -- >> we just have to find new ways to move on. emma: he is stepping down at the end of the year after a decade at the top of the hong kong exchange. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. that's the first word news.

i'm emma chandra. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> we have identified a new variant of coronavirus, which may be associated with faster

spread in the southeast of england. initial analysis suggests this variant is growing faster than the existing variance. we've currently identified over 1000 cases with this variant. jonathan: one more thing to worry about that spark a lot of concerned in the u.k. and beyond yesterday. that was the secretary of health and social care. for our audience worldwide this morning, good morning. for new york and london, alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. price action looks like this this tuesday. we advance on the s&p 500. we take a bite out of the losses the last four days, up about 24 points. talk a little bit about a euro just off the highs for 20. you are stronger come out to $1.2160. going into the federal reserve tomorrow, that today meeting begins today, yields up to around 90 basis points on a tenure majority. tom: right now, what we are going to do is what we have been

doing on "surveillance" from february, and certainly since march, and that is talk to medical experts on the pandemic come on virology, about what is actually going on now. we can do that with the gentlelady out of atrium health , the acclaim to sign your heart and vascular institute, among others. katie passaretti is with infection prevention out of the johns hopkins combine. vaccination, and in the treatment you received, was there any delay or preparation for possible shock? dr. passaretti: certainly there were medical professionals on site that were prepared to respond if there were any issues with the vaccine. luckily that did not happen. everything went perfectly smoothly. but yes, everyone should be monitored immediately after the vaccine, make sure there is no reaction, make sure there is someone there that can help if

they need it. tom: with anaphylaxis, we move from a rash on to other things. explained within your general education at johns hopkins of anaphylaxis, and is that equivalent to this vaccination process? anaphylaxis is a severe allergic reaction that sometimes can cause swelling in the airways, difficulty breathing, and addition to the kind of rash and hives you mention. it is a very rare side effect of certain medications, including vaccines. so not a common thing, and definitely not associated with everyone who could they vaccine. jonathan: can you build on the transportation and logistics effort you guys have been not just in the last 24 hours, but i imagine the last several months? how smoothly are things running so far? dr. passaretti: this journey has not been without challenges. at atrium health, we have been working on this for several months with a multidisciplinary

team, working to make sure we could get this vaccine into people's arms as soon as it was available, evaluating the evidence. this vaccine needs very special handling to make sure it is active, so it requires ultra record -- requires ultra cold freezers that we purchased to be able to store doses for teammates and patients. working through the logistics that are involved in keeping it cold until the point of delivery have certainly been challenging, but i feel like it has gone relatively well, and our first doses of vaccine yesterday went off without a hitch. lisa: do you get the sense that the logistics, making sure you have all of the equipment, making sure everything goes smoothly, is entirely on atrium's shoulders in terms of bearing the cost and dealing with things? or do you feel like you're getting the help you need from state and federal officials? dr. passaretti: there is

certainly a significant cause for hospitals to put this into place. an ultracold freezer is not a cheap endeavor. the amount of work is significant. workingly everyone is together, but there is a non-small bird in the hospitals, i would say. lisa: based on how things have rolled out at this point, based on the fact that a recent poll showed that eight in 10 americans would be willing to take the covid vaccine should it be available, when do you think they will be able to go out to their cvs or to their local hospital center and actually get the vaccine at this point? dr. passaretti: it is definitely going to take some time, as far as getting enough supply to do a broad chunk of the population, and then those logistics we just mentioned will be very challenging right now to have your next-door cvs administered the vaccine. so for right now, much of the

admin a straight and is then larger acute care centered. as we get more options, that will certainly open up doors and potential different handling that will allow it to get there. we are thinking february for patient population. tom: dr. passaretti, you can't see this, and neither can the people listening on bloomberg radio, but we run it on tv of like, 4000 people getting the shot yesterday. does your arm hurt during the shot or afterwards. that is all we want to know? lisa: correction, tom wants to know. [laughter] dr. passaretti: i've gotten lots of shots in my life, so that was not an issue. it was minimally sore. i did have pain and tenderness in my arm overnight in that muscle, but nothing out of the ordinary. tom: there you go. jonathan: before we let you go, i want to finish on a more

serious question, if we can. the group of individuals that receive this vaccination first, some of which will be at the most risk in society, and they are already in care homes, which means life expectancy is already incredibly low. i am just trying to understand what happens in the next several months when people who have had this vaccine start to sadly pass away for no reason connected to this vaccination, but the stories start to build. what is the best way of managing the message around that? the inevitable likelihood that that is going to happen anyway. dr. passaretti: certainly, skilled nursing facility patients have multiple medical issues unrelated to the vaccine. i think it is going to be really important to educate upfront and to keep track of the data on what happened to those people, what else is going on, and make sure that is fairly trade by you all in the media because it does have the potential to put a spin this it -- a spin that is not

necessarily reflective of what is true. jonathan: i hope if you come back on the program, we can talk about it. thank you for catching up. ,r. katie passaretti there atrium health director for infection prevention. yesterday we saw the story with pfizer. we are seeing the story from moderna. vaccine staff says the vaccine is safe and effective against covid-19. the advisory board, which i believe will meet on thursday, and we could set up a timeline with moderna. >> somebody was out on twitter the last couple of days, talking about the clear memory of polio and the vaccines around polio. i remember that fear as a bell. this is no different. you just have to courage to do this. i will be first in line when it comes to me. on a low priority here, i get that, but you got to have the courage to get this done. jonathan: i think you are in the right age group now, tom, to be honest with you.

i think you are next stop. lisa: it is going to snow. jonathan: i think you are in the mix. i think you are in the next category. tom: why does he do that? [laughter] jonathan: from new york and london, this is bloomberg. ♪

>> how do wages go up when there are so many people out of work? >> when you look at hiring, you are seeing those layoffs increase. that is going to be a concern going forward. >> the really important thing to keep in mind as we are starting a brand-new economic cycle right now. >> i think a lot of the standing stimulus has been priced in. central banks have lots themselves into being stuck at their effective lower bounds. >> it is not that we are going to grow in 2021. enough?ll it be >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom k