>> the number of people losing their jobs is still historically high. >> the bottom has really fallen out of low income spending. >> days a risk -- there is a pricehat we are somewhat -- when it comes to the vaccine. >> last year was all about hoarding cash. this year is more about investment. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. good morning, everyone. it is a simulcast on bloomberg radio across this fractured nation and worldwide on bloomberg television. good morning. tuesday of impeachment. kevin cirilli has told us, and he will be with us in a bit, maybe that vote is tomorrow. pretty much assured.

i hesitate to use that, but i i right that you and i observe that it really doesn't move over to the markets, that this is a separate discussion? lisa: people are shrugging off the potential for impeachment. i find interesting is the markets are shrugging off a ultgestion of ongoing tum as we head towards inauguration. we are about potential taxes on state governments -- potential attacks on state governments, the national bard being -- the national guard being called in, so these are real risks. lisa: i talked to jon ferro -- tom: i talked to jon ferro. he is loving capri. he said we could do a five hour simulcast and still not run out of the themes. there are so many stories we are not covering as we are fixated on washington, and the pandemic as well. the one story and the markets we are covering that is the here and now is the cover of the weak

dollar trade. lisa: basically, people are yes us and whether or not they want to go all in, but it seems like perhaps yesterday with capitulation, when you look at markets, it seems like any blips are doubling down on the consensus views. it seems like we are going back to the reflationary trade, but we are still not out of the woods. that is the tension very much in the forefront for wall street. matt horn buck and james lord making clear they moved to neutrality. mark mccormick of td securities yesterday was heated on strong dollar due to these rate differentials. that's the thing we are going to talk about in the minute. let me do a quick data check. futures up 10, dow futures up 71. the vix comes in 3.7.

in the yield space, the yield,rk abramowicz 1.6% on the 10 year yield. lisa is here to jolt us -- 1.16 percent on the 10 year yield. lisa is here to jolt us with the yield. lisa: this is what we are jolting this morning. we get the november jobs opening data, a leading indicator potentially of how much momentum there is under the cover with respect to the u.s. economy and rehiring all of those millions of individuals who have been laid off. at 10: 30 a.m., secretary of state mike pompeo is speaking at the national press club. he has tied joe biden's hands when it comes to china policy in a substantial way, and has made some pretty bold moves, whether

it has to do with taiwan or banning certain companies from being listed in the united states. what else is he going to say? at 1:00 p.m., the u.s. is going of 10-year billion note's. i find it interesting at a time amo-yield has moved the most since 2020. i find this really interesting because we are seeing not only the yields going up, but we are seeing the yield curve, the gap between two-year and 10 year bond yields rise to the widest since may 2017. the fed is allowing this. that is one of the key questions. for how long? tom: we will have to see. romaine bostick, we will drag him out with some of those stories as well. we are focused on washington, but really trying to focus on the markets as well. kevin cirilli, stay with us on

radio and tv, really leading the way into the washington evening. kevin will join us here in 15 minutes or something. we are talking to his people right now. brian levitt is at invesco, their global market strategist. he joins us. is the weak dollar trade done? it is not done from a longer-term perspective. in the near term, everybody got on board with that trade. he started to see some optimism from the united states with the vaccine rollout and potential for a better economy amid additional fiscal support, so interest rates have gone up a bit in the united states. comparedifferentials to the rest of the world have improved in the u.s.'s favor, the dollar catches a bid, but we need to remember that long-term, u.s. policy is likely to be accommodative for the foreseeable future, and is set forward to bring forward a

significant mount of stimulus. the fed is not going to tighten for years. so i don't think this consolidation is over -- this trade is over. it is a consolidation of what is a very consensus view. lisa: betting against a recovery is akin to betting against medicine and science because the medicine and science of the markets is fiscal and monetary support. is this a frustrating market to invest in? brian: i don't think it is a frustrating market to invest in. it has played out the way most of us suspected it would, and that you start to see this rotation to more of a recovery trade. things have gotten a little bit extended, and the consensus calls have been bought up, so you are likely to see some churn. you may see a pullback in markets. but in my opinion, the longer-term narrative doesn't change. it is still an economy that needs to stage a prolonged,

protracted recovery, and policy is going to be accommodative for a long time, so it is an environment that favors risk assets. perhaps a bit extended come but that tends to happen in the early stages of economic every. tom: long ago -- economic recovery. tom: long ago, they used to say bond movie was moving into equity money or equity money was moving into bond money. do you see evidence it is overtly moving into equities? brian: you are starting to see some signs of it. if you look at mutual fund and etf flows into equities, it has been improving on a pretty investors basis, but should think about the last year or so. over $1 trillion into money market strategies. over the last decade, cumulative flows into equity funds and etf's is basically flat. you are starting to see some

money come in, and you are seeing some signs of near-term exuberance and markets, but longer-term cumulative flows suggest investors are not in love with equities. dynamicsd are dollar or rate dynamics to the future of stocks? or should i say, to mid and small cap dynamics as well? what are all of those correlations after the first 12 days of the year? brian: the strong dollar obviously had been the headwind for u.s. investors investing overseas. we had been saying that a weaker dollar environment becomes a catalyst to unlock some of that value. you have certainly seen that in the emerging economies over the last six months and even the last year. environment can even be just fine for u.s. investors looking overseas because there is attractive value, there is better growth opportunity. if you are in an environment

where the fed is not going to tighten policy, you are unlikely to upset that appetite. the other side of that would be if we were to go into a stronger dollar environment, you would likely see a scenario that played out over the last cycle, which was u.s. outperformance. but i don't see that as a likely scenario given how accommodative policy is likely to be in the united states. lisa: you said we are in the early stages of recovery, and this does seem to be a growing consensus, but the difference this time around is there was not a reset of valuations, and that they remain ever higher. even if we didn't get a washing out here, what are the longer-term consequences. is it just lower returns going forward, or is there more to it? brian: you would have to lower the long-term return as patient. investors should be careful that expectations are not great timing tools. what ends up happening when you come out of a recovery is we know the market goes first, so

if using of a price-earnings or price sales ratio, the numerator is improving for the denominator is catching up. so we will see a recovery into an expansion in this cycle, and which revenue and earnings will start to catch up. we also have to recognize that is a very low interest rate, low inflation environment, and we might just have to be comfortable paying higher multiples for equities. tom: brian levitt, thank you so much. he is with invesco, with their global strategy team. i look at all this, i look at the markets, and still we are dragged back to the debate in washington. it is an eventful tuesday morning, isn't it? , a lot ofthe question people have come on and said the turmoil has encouraged democrats and republicans to work more closely to get fiscal support, which is the irony here. the more turmoil, the more confident people are that we will get a fiscal support package. henrietta treyz veda partners

saying we could -- henrietta treyz of veda partners saying we could see something in the first days of a joe biden presidency. tom: i really have trouble constraining that statistic, the habit of if you start at 1.3x, all of a sudden it is 1.4, 1.5. 1.9 is under $2 trillion. that seems to be a round number. lisa: i am curious also about the composition of these fiscal support packages. how much is state and local funding? how much is to offer retraining to workers to deal with the workforce that has been dramatically overhauled based on the text changes in the economy? tom: that is our policy discussion for this month. we will get back to the politics of the moment with kevin cirilli and a bit. on the data, futures up 10, dow futures up 67. the upper imports -- the

see onecz shift, you point -- you see 1.1632% on the 10 year. oh, the humanity. michael collins of pgim coming up. this is bloomberg. good morning. ritika: with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. the house is set to issue a largely futile ultimatum to vice president mike pence today. democrats will demand he invoked the 25th of a meant to remove president trump for office. if he doesn't do so, there will be a vote to impeach the president for the second time in a little more than a year. pence and the president met last night for the first time since the president's supporters stormed the capital. he is signaling he would reject demands to immediately oust the president. tension is growing in washington, d.c. in advance of next week's inauguration.

as many as 15,000 national guard troops will be sent to the city over concern there could be more violence. the fbi is warning there could be armed protests in all 50 state capitals, and the ad reps abrupt isn -- the ignition of acting homeland security chad wolf -- the abrupt resignation of acting home and security chad wolf added to the concern. campaign pull contributions following the capitol.the twitter has stepped up its enforcement in the wake of the riots at the capitol. it has now permanently banned more than 70,000 accounts associated with qanon conspiracy theory content. last week, twitter ban president trump -- twitter band president

banned- twitter president. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪ so you're a small business, or a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business.

>> there were others involved in this who frankly aided and abetted this. there are people who believe that by pandering to trump's

base, pandering to this aspect of his base, it works to their own political benefit. and i think the rest of us in this country need to push back on that and say no you don't. u.s.jeh johnson, former homeland security secretary. that is an important conversation, as there are many conversations in your washington. we welcome you on radio and television worldwide across this nation -- worldwide, across this nation. i have to say this today, this is the most import and conversation of the morning. kevin cirilli joins us, our chief washington correspondent. kevin, paint for our audience worldwide and across this nation what your washington streets look like this morning. kevin: good morning, tom. the capital compound, ever since heavyeek, there is a security presence around the capitol campus.

staffers of all ages, new staffers, older staffers still reeling and trying to process the events of last week, and it comes as we are now less than 24 hours or so away from likely another round of impeachment. i was struck by the comments reportedly that minor leader kevin mccarthy made on a telephone call yesterday with his republican caucus, in which he said that president trump bears some response ability for the events of last week, and i think it bears repeating, when i talked to republicans, i am hard-pressed to find, beyond josh hawley in his circle, individuals who don't feel the president should resign or step aside. tom: what is so important here, i've got eight ways to go, and i am to stick with mr. mccarthy, he was in the pool with the president. is he out of the pool with the president right now? kevin: there's a sense that the republican party is in a period of transition, that the

republican party is trying to get through the next eight days, through inauguration, and then it will begin its quest to find a new leader, a new standardbearer, and a new message. there is a sense, when i spoke with top republican sappers -- toublican staffers who said me yesterday that they don't know where the party goes from here in terms of a leadership structure. justromney mcdaniel was reelected to be chair of the rnc , and she has been reportedly cleaning house even before last week. but the question of who really has power, there is a power vacuum in the republican party right now. lisa: there's also a power vacuum in several key departments, thinking of the acting chief of homeland security resigning, chad wolf. how prepared is the nation to deal with any potential threats leading up to and on inauguration? kevin: very prepared.

that is a great question. from ag political standpoint, anyone perceiving this is a moment of weakness auld be in calculated -- from geopolitical standpoint, anyone perceiving this as a moment of weakness would be miscalculated. other point that i think is important here, and perhaps it is difficult outside of washington to grasp, and i am sympathetic to that, but this very real notion that staffers have come of that prominent political appointees have, that in leaving their post with eight days left, that they would be potentially leaving a risk for the country. that is a very real concern that sources that i have come of that i have spoken to for several years are grappling with, and many of them have decided that

it is best for them to keep their head down, grind it out, and finish the job they were appointed to. lisa: eight days left, as you say. president trump is scheduled for his first public appearance since all of the turmoil over the weekend and last week. he's going to talk about the border wall. what are people expecting him to say? what is the tone and the message? kevin: the messages the doubling down of what he feels his accomplishment's were for his time in office. it comes at a time in which the president is the most isolated that he has ever been in his political career. question on the alamo, and i want to make clear this is not san antonio, but down the border named after the , there's a story on deutsche bank and the idea that

signature bank of new york has told the trumps, take a hike, and said go away. open an account in alamo, texas. what does the president do with the linkage of his political and business affairs out of this debacle? you and i have had a beverage of our choice at a bar at the trump hotel. where is that hotel in one year? kevin: it is such a good question. two days ago, i went down to the lincoln memorial on a run, and you see the old post office building which is now the trump hotel in the line of vision from the lincoln memorial to the washington monument. adjacent to the left is the trump hotel, and in the capitol building. who knows? that's the truth here. but here is the landscape for the trump orbit, which is fox news has turned against him, the

murdochs have turned stick and -- have turned against him, he republican party has turned against him, and parler is off android.ff in the five and a half spent covering the trump political orbit, they have never been more isolated than they are right now. that is just the fact. how they proceed to move forward is the biggest unknown. tom: how isolated is the vice president of the united states? help me with vice president pence, former governor of indiana. what is his to do list on this tuesday? next: to get through the eight days and change. he is not nearly as isolated at president trump. there's a feeling within republican sources that i have spoken with, including memory of congress who have said they are thankful for vice president pence and his leadership last week. that's what the republican party

says. democrats are saying he didn't go far enough. but he is in a very difficult lane, to lisa's point about national security. he wants to project confidence to the world that there is a transition, a peaceful transition of power that is going on. but several lawmakers have come out, and pence, where the you agree with him or disagree with him, has always had this reputation of being a very stoic presence and very measured in his delivery, and there have been lawmakers that have come out publicly on the record and said they have never seen him so angry as he was for the president's actions last week when they were with him. tom: stay safe. kevin cirilli with us on this day. with the national conversation, cirilli." with mr.

he's only working a four hour day. he's calling up people, saying, can you come on? what a life. stay with us. from radio and television, michael collins on the rate

♪ ."m: "bloomberg surveillance good morning, everyone. jon ferro, spoke to him yesterday. all reports his sabbatical is going well. of his the third write thesis. he's having trouble getting beyond 142 pages. lisa: we will get the full exclusive. tom: we anticipate it will be on the shelves of the university here in a bit. let me show a data check to you right now. futures up 12, dow futures up 78. there is a lift in yields, which is important. we continued to see price down, yield up. we also see it confirmed and brent crude, $56.50, up $0.84.

we are going to go to romaine bostick. he's going to bore us with zoom. i don't get zoom. i just sent in email and said i don't get zoom. you going to give a zoom. get that out of the way. give us the data, and i want to get to walmart. romaine: zoom is just like tv, but on your computer. obviously one of the biggest stocks of last year. they are having a secondary offering, putting pressure on shares. you are also seeing lemonade having a secondary offering, taking advantage of that. i want to draw your attention to albertson, the scintillating stores. grocery the reason i bring this up, this was one of the biggest ipo flaps of 2020. of 2020.ops the stock really went nowhere. expectations relatively low here. this is one of the shortest stocks -- one of the most shorted stocks out there right

now. they are supposed to report earnings any minute now. keep an eye on it. tom: get to walmart. you've got to explain this for old farts like me. rivet is robinhood? what is it? romaine: it is an investor in robinhood, credit karma. i'm sure all of your kids and grandkids know about it. but this is less about rivet, more about walmart and what. . it is trying to do. lisa, maybe you can educate tom. lisa: i found this fascinating because basically, walmart is getting in on lending to its customers and associates, and basically, part of the idea is they want to intermediate some of those big credit card companies that they pay billions of dollars of fees to every year and create their own financial services industry with all of the data they have, and with all of the huge footprint they have.

how is this being received by people? it seems like it make a lot of sense, and it is a great time to do it because of capital markets and how open they are. a couple of analysts basically said they didn't think walmart's core customer would buy into this, but this isn't necessarily just about the core customer. the divergence has a lot to do with the fact that amazon is way more than just a retailer. it has managed to branch out into a lot of different categories and create this revenue gap. walmart has been trying to do the same thing. people say this could modeled off of what alibaba does. this is going to be big if walmart does manage to pull this off. romaine: take walmart and folded over to what a firm is doing in mhe ipo market -- to what affir is doing in the ipo market. are the big banks petrified by all of this modern finance? romaine: absolutely. a lot of them have been trying

to move into that world, and they're going to become even more petrified when you have a company like walmart. they have been worried about walmart for a while. all marta actually want to have its own bank, and you saw what happened. obvious in washington got up and running very quickly to put the squash on that, so they are definitely going to keep an eye rivet/walmart. tom: thank you so much, and thank you for bringing my grandchildren into it. lisa, would you bring in my next guest? i've got to order a walker. lisa: we did talk about albertsons, and we did see innings, expectations coming -- shares coming in above expectations. that brings us to this concept of big tech, the confluence of big corporations becoming big tech and the regulatory pressures. michael collins, pgim portfolio

manager, has been covering everything. there's a question about regulatory pressure right now on some of the biggest companies. how serious is that, especially after the recent events that transpired in washington? michael: good morning. thanks for having me. i think this blue ripple everyone is talking about is going to result in much less concern in the markets about tech being broken up and regulated, the banks being broken up, energy being more heavily regulated. so i think you are seeing a lot of those sectors actually rally and do really well, and it is because the markets are more sanguine on the forward-looking process. lisa: so in other words, people are discounting the degree of regulation that had been feared before, and there is a sort of belief that because the blue ripple is not a blue wave, you won't get that much regulation. yet some of these are bipartisan issues, right? with big tech, for example.

does that change your idea here? michael: there's definitely bipartisan support to drive down health care costs, to keep some of the biggest monopolistic tech companies at bay, but also there's a lot of momentum in those companies. they are driving employment right now. it's where a lot of the employment growth is going, and you don't want to derail that. tom: where is money flowing right now? part of pgim is watching what everyone else is doing. what is the money flow right now? michael: we just looked at the other day where individuals are allocated, and they are generally over allocated to equities and under allocated to bonds. believe it or not, their allocation to fixed income is the lowest it has been in 20 years, and near the lowest in 50 years. part of this is not necessarily a slow dynamic. it is a stock dynamic. as equities keep going up,

people get over allocated and they need to sell stocks and buy bonds, so we aren't is abating more flows into fixed income this year. tom: i look at the anticipation here, that we drive price up and you'll down. the whole yield higher bit, do you not buy it because of that reality? michael: bonds are getting cheaper every day, and stocks are getting more expensive. that is the trend we are in right now, and it is tough to fight that trend. we have some dry powder in fixed income here. we are waiting for yields to crest before we get really long duration, before we put on a really big position. "surveillance"e pencil. give us a level where you step --and go price up, you lower price up, you lower -- price up, yield lower. michael: 1.25 percent has been our level.

i know friday, lisa and i had a great conversation about foreign rates. you look at what is priced in. is really important. the 5-year note is only at 0.5%, but it is priced to be 1.8% in just five years. so basically, if you are short duration, you are effectively betting they are going to go above that forward rate, and we don't think the 5-year note is going to be 1.8% or the 10 year note is going to be at 2.25% in 10 years. with think the fed is going to be between 0% and 1% for the rest of our lives, so a 10-year note just above 1% is attractive. lisa: we did have a fantastic conversation friday. you say bonds getting cheaper, stocks getting more expensive. can you get that bond rally without a stock selloff? possibly. i could see maybe at some point in the next weeks or months, if

rates keep pushing higher and it causes investors to pull back, it causes valuations on the stock market to pull back, it causes people maybe to think twice about refinancing their mortgage, you could see the fed step in and ultimately start buying on the long end. int could fuel a huge rally 30 year treasuries. so i think as those rates keep creeping higher, the probability that you are going to get a snap down lower in yields keeps increasing. lisa: when we talk about stocks getting more expensive, do you think the whole rotation trade into cyclicals, the whole bet on financials, etc. has gotten ahead of itself? michael: no, i think that is still a trade. i think the huge risk is in those overvalued, massive tech stocks driving the market. if i am looking at the s&p 500, the day tesla added in december might mark the sell

indicator. it is very possible when you get to these levels and when you have a handful of stocks dominating. all you need is a few of those to go down 50% or 100%, and it is going to be really tough for those indices to have positive returns for the next five or 10 years. you michael collins, thank so much. greatly appreciate it. interesting to see that wall of money coming in, and where pgim sets the market. did you know that sarah went on a three week vacation, and the maldives or something, and she comes back and puts up a banner? did you see that? "tom is getting older." lisa: you took personal offense when we were talking about the demographic shift because they seem to run close to home. tom: on bloomberg radio, those banners look so good, coast-to-coast. lisa: this idea of the

demographic shift is significant, and there was a census study that recently came out that showed the u.s. population is growing at the slowest pace as it has in decades. that really raises questions about how high yields can go, about how much growth can pick up, and how the u.s. is going to service all of its programs like social security coming up. this is one of the big structural arguments for bonds, not selling off more than the otherwise would. civiles, it is about the rate of change in government programs come up additionally -- programs, particularly social security, but it is really about the folding in of demographics to nominal gdp. this is a cottage industry in europe, less talked about in america. that population dynamic is tangible. the older people probably are -- [laughter] lisa: and lack of immigration. that is another issue.

coming up, we are talking with tom wheeler, former sec chair, and no brookings institution visiting fellow. we will talk about tom's age. we will talk about scotch. this is bloomberg. ♪ ritika: with the first word news, i'm ritika gupta. vice president mike pence will get an ultimatum from house democrats today. he's expected to reject it. lawmakers will demand that vice president pence invoke the 25th amendment to remove president trump for office. he says no, the house will vote to impeach the president. meanwhile, president trump today makes his first public appearance since the riots at the capitol. he will head to texas to claim progress on the unfinished wall along the border with mexico, seen as an attempt to deflect attention from criticism of his

behavior, and to highlight what the president sees as one of his signature compliments. pro football coach bill belichick has turned down an offer from president trump to receive the presidential medal of freedom. the six super bowl winner from the new england patriots agreed to receive the honor come but that was before last week's riots at the capitol. chinese president xi jinping has delivered an unusually upbeat assessment of china's future. he said that time and the situation were on china's side. he repeated a reference to the challenge of president trump's america first policies, but expressed confidence that china would benefit in the long run. bets heavily on ridesharing startups area uber shares have more than tripled since hitting their low last march as the pandemic took hold

in the u.s. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i ritika gupta -- i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> it is long overdue for the technology companies and their executives to acknowledge that

this is bigger than them. the technology companies have been hauled up onto capitol hill a variety of times, and each time the ceos have taken a very defensive posture. they have basically said, leave us alone. we've got this. we will figure out the rules of the road. that is obviously insufficient. tom: one of my favorite people, carly fiorina, ex- hewlett-packard and political candidate as well, on the changing of technology. ,isa abramowicz and tom keene with jon ferro. futures up 11. right now we will attempt an intelligent conversation. lastned to mrs. keene night and said, i figure wheeler will cancel. his ohio state went down in flames. tom wheeler, your comment on the spirit of college football in the time of this national crisis. tom w: my comment is go

buckeyes. think about what brought you there, not just the outcome. but it was a tragedy last night. tom k: we are thrilled that thomas wheeler could join us this morning. i don't like the phrase net neutrality. it is greek to me. but tell us what the net looks like in two or three years. we are evolving each and every day. with fiorina and wheeler on the same page, what does our fcc world look like in five years? thomas: i think what is important is we got to think about what the new world looks like. to overseen trying the revolution of the digital economy and digital technology using statutes and regulatory structures that were created for the industrial era, and we need a new approach that recognizes

that the world has changed, that things move much more quickly than they did before, so we can't have the old approach to oversight. and secondly, that we are dealing with a whole new class of assets. soft assets instead of hard assets, and they behave differently in the marketplace. lisa: let's bring this to what happened over the past week or so, when we saw twitter ban president trump from its platform, facebook suspending him from theirs. -- it raises tech question about big tech's role in dictating the guidelines for ine of these -- role determining the discourse. the government role in dictating the guidelines for some of these companies?

assumed aey have quasigovernmental role. they are making the rules because our representatives in government are not. and we need to step up and figure out as the people what are the rules that should exist. how do we have competition instead of these monopolies? how do we have expectations for responsible behavior rather than we will do whatever we want because it is profitable? lisa: there's very little agreement on how exactly to frame these issues. we can't even get a stimulus afort passed, and we have jobless rate that is incredibly high. what is your confidence level that there is actually some consensus on these big, d.c.?ophical concepts in

thomas: i think you need to have the willingness to get off the field and try to work it out rather than just running away from it, which is frontally what we have done for too long. one of the things that has happened is the policymakers have been told for the last couple of decades this snake oil that somehow, digital is different, and that it is pretty close to magic. anything too provide public interest oversight, you will break that magic. that is not the case. need to have policymakers who understand, and i think they are coming up to speed, the of the digital economy, and they are willing to step up. let's go back in history for a

second. the regulatory structures we have in place right now were created to provide balance in the industrial economy to the excess thatentive was created at that point in time. we need to have some kind of offsetting, countervailing structure created in the digital economy, but we can't rely on the structures that were created for 100 years ago because it is a new world. i want to talk about your wonderful work on the civil war. in your book, you talk about taking the next hill. we've got to take the next technology hill. do you assume, whatever that hill looks like, and let's say it is the ohio regiments at gettysburg, do you assume that it is the breakup of these technology companies? think another

chapter in the book talks about new techniques and new thoughts i don't want to break up facebook and have half a dozen all with theooks incentive to use their monopoly power over the digital assets which they hold and won't share with anybody else. i would rather see, instead of breakup, let's break open access to those assets. let me give you one specific example. in 1956, at&t was forced to open access to its patents, which was the greatest repository of patents in the world. when that happened, innovation and competition took off. they had been using those others fromhwart

creating competitive alternatives. and what we need to do is say, ok these companies -- is to say ok, these companies are now sitting on massive databases. we will never be able to compete with them if they continue to hoard those databases. you need to open the databases, not for free, but provide access to the assets that are recent central for the digital economy. tom: controversial, to say the least. thomas wheeler, we appreciate it this morning, the former fcc chairman. this is complex stuff. i've read four articles on net neutrality, and i still don't get it. lisa: but his point on democratizing the datasets of big tech is a really interesting one. tom: how is mr. basis going to osspond to that -- mr. bez going to respond to that?

lisa: in china, they are looking alibaba that with is similar. tom: stay with us on this simulcast, on bloomberg radio, bloomberg television. stephen whiting coming up. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪

>> the number of people losing their jobs is still historically high. >> we are still living through the demand shock of covid. >> the bottom has really fallen out of low income spending. >> there is risk that we are somewhat priced to perfection in terms of the vaccine. >> in the last several weeks, the mood has changed dramatically. >> last year was all about hoarding cash. this year is more about investment. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. lisa: