tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg January 15, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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and the biden administration plays 100 million shots in the first 100 days. there is more programming on the way as netflix pledges 70 new moon e in 2020 new plans from netflix and disney plus. she is where the most iconic ceos of all time. we have ginni rometty looking back at her 40 years with the company and she grants as her exit interview. first, u.s. stocks have dropped the most in a week. wells fargo tracked down the sector on a disappointing report, we have more. ed, interesting on the back of biden unveiling his economic plan. walk us through the day. ed: the market hitting pause on that reflation trade, taking the time to consider the reality
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that president-elect joe biden will get done with his stimulus plan, especially in the context of the covid vaccine. we continue to see underperformance from technology stocks you can see the nasdaq 100 down by 7/10 of 1%. the basket of mega cap tech stocks -- it has not been the biggest year for tech. stabbing those gains that we saw throughout the week, the stock has been an outperform are compared to the rest of the technology sector. we end the week firmly in the red one comes to u.s. equities. apple continuing its recent underperformance down by 1.4% rate the biggest point movement to the downside, is this excessive -- the second successive weekly decline since november. it has only had one green day
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this week. apple is looking at a folding phone. it is in the early stages of a folding phone. the other big take away that we do not expect any major changes to the apple iphone lineup in 2021. facebook is up 2.2 .3% -- 2.33% but it has been a tough week for social media stock. facebook is registering a weekly decline. twitter is down 1.3% on the day. a weekly decline of 12%. a lot of attention on the social media stocks in the wake of twitter's decision to move -- remove president trump from its platform. analysts continue to look at how those decisions way back to the top and bottom line for those social media stocks throughout the rest of 2021. emily: we will be watching how those stocks hold up through inauguration day and through
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next week. ed in san francisco, thank you so much for that update. meantime, new york city is running out of covid vaccines. the mayor says that the steady supply will be gone by next week. if the city does not get a serious supply of vaccine, it they will have to freeze the appointments. the strain from the u.k. will be coming soon. we are discussing with our health reporter, michelle cortez. what is happening in new york city? sho -- michelle: there is not as much vaccine in new york city compared to other places. the concern is that those who've already gotten the first dose of the vaccine would not be able to get their second dose to offer the full protection. we do not know exactly how effective one dose is. there is not the follow-up on
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the doses. we have been told that those sources would be held back so that once everyone got a first one, the second dose was being held for them, and they would be able to come and get it. at this point, that is not looking like how it holds up. if the city does not get more vaccine from operation warp speed, people are going to be going without that second dose. emily: i know we are still learning a lot of things, but if you do not get your second dose and the timeframe you are supposed to take it, it invalidate the first dose? can you get it later? michelle: you can get it later. another the first dose offers about 50% of protection until you get the second dose. we do not know exactly how long that lasts. if you do not get the second does within three weeks after be first one, which is what you are supposed to do if you get the pfizer shot or a month later if you get the moderna vaccine. we do not know when the protection wanes. need to get that second shot to
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get the 95% efficacy rate. concern and new york city is that if you do not get that second shipment of doses, they the shutdown and those who are waiting to get there first does will get shut out of the system entirely. emily: and new york city is not alone. here in california, they've opened it up to age 65 and older. folks and that is group have no idea how to get that vaccine, and doctors do not know to sell their patients. there folks on the front lines saying that there is no tracking, no organization. what is the picture here? michelle: it is that way across the entire country. every state has their own policy, and every county can have their own policy. not only that, every hospital or medical facility and have their own policy. we are not exactly sure how the process is rolling out. there are recommendations coming
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from the federal government and the state government, but in the end, whoever has the vaccines are the ones making the decisions. we are seeing certain cases where there are people who are interested -- are related to a hospital as a board member, and their family are getting access, or patients in the hospital or some of the health care providers themselves do not have access. exactly as you are saying, those in the biden administration and the trump administration have been saying that we should be vaccinating everybody 65 and older. making it easier to get that herd immunity. the challenge is that there are not enough shots, and it for you are looking at these older populations, 65 and owner, many of those folks are those who struggle with things like internet connectivity, to be have the ability to find these websites and find out what happens if their computers go down. it is kind of a catastrophic situation coming. people do not know where to go.
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even those who know where to go are having trouble manipulating to the process to find out when to get their shot. and when they are there, there can -- they're competing with others who want the vaccine. it's getting crazy across the board. hopefully as more come out, it will get smoother. emily: how much do you think an administration changeover could really help? biden has this vaccine plan with less roles and more vaccines, can he actually deliver? michelle: the difference is going to be in the dollars. the biden administration has $1.9 trillion effort that they are going out. $20 billion are directed just 20 vaccinations. if we have the money going to the state, that is going to make a difference. we have seen where it has gone sideways is that it is like not having the money or manpower in order to get the task done.
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that being said, it simply having money does not immediately make a difference. it will make it better if you need to rent out a sports stadium, you can set up a vaccination clinic. you to have the money and the contracts. there is a lot of paperwork and process that has to happen before those dollars make a difference. the fact that that money is coming should ultimately make the process happen more smoothly. emily: michelle, thank you so much always for educating us. we could talk to you for hours. i highly recommend to our audience to check out your work and your reporting at bloomberg.com. michelle cortez, i reporter who has been covering the vaccine race. coming up, one of the most iconic ceos in technology. part of my wide-ranging conversation with former ceo and ibm chair ginni rometty ,up next.
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emily: after more than 40 years at ibm, former and executive chair ginni rometty stepped down last month. the amount of technological changes that she is seen and that time has been astounding. from the rise of smart phones and computers, and a very special bloomberg studio 1.0, i sat down with her as a part of her exit interview and asked her to recall from her memory of day one on the job as a systems engineer in detroit back in 1987. ginni: i came from a single mom
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to get us off of food stamps, found her way back to get an associates degree so we could get -- or she could get a job and we could all go to school. i had a scholarship through general motors. i worked there first. before that, i went to ibm. i worked there a year. she is passionate about cars, and i wanted to apply technology to a lot of things. i went to ibm and here's what i remember the first day. i did not have a blue suit. i measure that had any suits, actually. this is back in time. this is 1981. i can remember coming home from work, taking off my jacket, and my husband saying do you realize the price tags are still on your suit? that is how i remember my first day. there is not a single person that. emily: your mom, how influential was she over the years? ginni: she showed us that no one
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defines your future, you just do it. emily: i remember when you took this job in 2011, the new york times wrote a big piece about how your husband with your support system as all husbands should be and had a big impact on me. laughing think that our support system should be invisible, but we do not lag how other people do it. i would love to learn more about how that partnership ewald over the years, especially as you are ceo. ginni: what i say about mark is that he is my biggest fan. i have been really blessed and lucky to have someone like that at my side who took as much pride and tried to learn as much about ibm and be its ambassador. i fight he was ibm's ambassador and take as much interest and my clients as i did. i did nothing us but were, so have much empathy for those who
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have sojourn and other responsibilities. i worked, and mark really took care of everything else. i was lucky from that sense. emily: i am sure that you are selling yourself short. and he is lucky to have you as well. you said that you have never thought about yourself as being a woman ceo, but that is often how others have thought about you. did you find that frustrating over the years are unfair in any way? ginni: that is an interesting question from two perspectives. i often felt that when i first became ceo, and i did not want to be live without. i wanted to recognize for what i went to accomplish. i think many women and people feel that way. a different side of that story, as time went on, i began to realize this obligation to be a role model. you can see sonic of what that would react to not just what i did -- you could see so many people react to not just what i did but that i was a role model
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to their children, their daughter, to themselves, this idea that you cannot be what you cannot see. i did begin to feel that it was not obligation, and i've changed my view about that. as my tenure went on, he saw me become more vocal about that a more involved in things. whether it is a woman or any group, people have got to have role models to see what is possible. that is in a positive way, and obligation there. with it, becomes, everything you do is magnified, and everything you do is personalize. i cannot tell you that that is they are, but it happens. power through and do what it is you think must be done. emily: what is your advice to young women out there who want to be you, who wants to be leaders? ginni: the wine piece of advice i am best known for. my has taught this lesson to me. early in my career, i had interviewed for a job and i was
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offered it, and i was nervous about taking it. i didn't think i was ready. mark i said to me when i came home, because i told the person, let me think about this. mark said, do you think a man would have answered a question that way? in those moments, what i remember is that growth and comfort will never coexist. everyone i talked to, said to it get really comfortable with being uncomfortable. when you're uncomfortable, it means you are learning and growing. for fear, i view those moments as learning opportunities, and that is my biggest advice. emily: have you replayed that story? " a man would not do this." ginni: i have replayed more, go put yourself at risk. if you're nervous, and fantastic. and if you're not service, deeply concerned. take out something different and go learn something new. emily: ibm shares declined while
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you are ceo. i wonder if that was frustrating to watch. it has to be distracting. i wonder if there is something that you think that investors did not get? ginni: we did return $43 billion to shareholders and my timeframe with dividend and dividend group by 100%. clearly, obviously, you would want your share price to grow. i think the piece that we had to undertake was the hard work to reinvent ibm for the long-term. that is what we went about it did -- and did. i'm really looking forward to now this next chapter for the company. emily: just part of my interview there with former ibm chair and ceo ginni rometty. you can catch powerful conversation on the latest edition of bloomberg studio 1.0 airing tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern and all throughout the begin.
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she gets more personal than i've ever seen her, and is definitely a conversation you do not want to miss. coming up with the new year comes new content. when the likes of netflix, disney plus, and a host of video streaming providers, competition is heating up and are ongoing coverage of so you're a small business, or a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. - [announcer] imagine having fuller, thicker, bounce forward, with comcast business. more voluminous hair instantly. all it takes is just one session at hairclub. introducing xtrands.
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emily: streaming is hitting new highs in conversation in the age of covid-19 with providers scrambling for subscribers. quarter results from the flex on tuesday will give us a claims into the landscape of 2021. joining us is richard greenfield with lightshed. necklace is coming out with 70 new titles this year, how is that even possible?
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-- netflix is. rich: not titles. this is just movies. i think this is part of the goal for netflix and 2021 is to establish itself as the world's largest movie studio. just a few years ago, netflix was not in the movie business, now we are talking about netflix being literally the biggest studio in terms of production dollars in the entire world. markable. emily: how are they doing it? are they just putting so much more money behind us or finding so many more projects than even disney plus? richard: i think disney is starting to get it. went to get into the streaming business, you start to realize this is a huge opportunity. when you look at the revenues of netflix anything about the subscriber base already up to 200 million subscribers, charging $15 per month.
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but globally 11 or $12 per month on a global basis. the scale of a revenue profit of a subscription business, it versus traditional movie business. you hoped and prayed that it works. you hope that he gets a dvd. you market it again. that business is so much worse than the subscription business. disney just announced last month that they are doubling their content spans for direct to consumer. i think our top 2021 predictions we think at lightshed that disney is going to move its major films to streaming. my guess is that you will see" black widow" go straight to disney plus. 2021 is a year the all-city is a start to realize that the need to figure out a new solution. the traditional window of home media and -- there is a much better business
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and scale than the old windowed release pattern. emily: can all of these streaming services survive beside each other? i know that disney has " wandavision" out as of today. paramount plus, discovery place. at the same time, we have seen consolidation in a company like quibi couldn't survive. richard: there is a french original blowing up on netflix. french acting, french town. dubbed into english, and it has become a huge hit in the u.s. and just the past week. the point is that all this is working. people are watching " wanda vision" and" saw" on disney plus.
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they're watching cobra kia on netflix. everyone thinks of these streaming wars but what everyone is missing is that it is not against -- it is not a war against each other. it is a war in aggregate against legacy television and legacy theater industry. name a show that you are excited to watch on linear tv. it does not exist. all of the great content is flowing to streaming. yet there are still 78 million homes literally paying 80 to $100 per month for television. that is where it is all coming from. all of these services can scale. some are going to be bigger like netflix and hbo max. i do not think discovery plus ever has ambitions of being netflix in size and scale. but as you take $80 to $100 per month and start to scale down so probably the bundle is people who love sports, all of that consumer wallet gets redeployed to a whole array of these
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services, and you can pick and choose whatever you want for part of the year. it is much more consumer friendly than being forced to take everything with a huge bill. emily: i have to stop you for a moment. because you have big bachelor and bachelorette fans on this team. the new bachelor is a traditional episodic television show. it is the only one i can think of. richard: there is no doubt that there are still some reality tv shows that still work very well. if you look at netflix with some of the reality shows that they have had over the course of the last 12 months, they have definitely built real bodies and reality in a way that no streaming service ever has before. not that i'm saying " floor is lava" is gray television, but it is remarkable how much people were watching the content. tiger came. reality tv is still working on traditional broadcast tv. all of the, dramas and comedies,
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all of that great content is clearly shifting. remember, if you love the bachelor or the bachelorette, you can watch it on hulu. emily: we are going to have leave it there. a lot of great ideas for the begin. thank you so much for dropping by. we will have more on bloomberg technology with jeff thomas of nasdaq next.
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emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i am emily chang, in san francisco. bumble has filed for an ipo and is planning to list on the same exchange. the is really based company and has made a successful entrance on nasdaq. we are speaking now with jeff thomas, and you have been taking a look at some of the data. put this into historical perspective for us.
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they have already been thousands of ipo's this year. how unusual is this for the second or third week of january? jeff: starting out with 2020, a historic year. $80 billion in capital. lester, the first few weeks of january, we had three ipo's. this year, we have already had 48 ipo's. emily: why? is the question. jeff: when you look at it, the capital markets are very richly valued right now. the window is wide open. of those 48 deals, 10 were operating companies, and they range over -- they raised over $5.5 billion. this backs raised -- the spac attack is still on. we have over 200 and 50 active
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spacs looking for targets now. one of the stories this year will be all of the business combinations coming to market as well. emily: we are going to talk about that and a moment, but first i want to talk about possible soaring -hundred- not good to leave money on the table. i spoke to the ceo of this company, take a listen to what he had to say about eight. >> we are focused, very much on the long term. i think that the short-term value creation has been our focus. we've been focused on a mission to serve the community, build out the great social marketplace and continue to grow and serve. emily: it has hit 150% on airbnb 143%. doordash 92%. at a certain point, do we say
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that the bankers are getting this wrong? jeff: i think that manish said it best. if you think about the long term. a lot of these ipo's are only floating about 10% of their shares and then working with underwriters to put their shares on the ipo in the long-term hold her hands. the goat to open up the ipo, -- when we go to open up the idea, you cannot find supply. give all these buyers coming in who say they want to own the stock. meanwhile, everyone who bought this stock by before trying to put up a larger position. it is more of a supply and demand issue. we take it back to the long-term focus. when a company sells stock, they are setting certain expeditions about their financial performance over the long-term. if the company was to go out and sell stock at the highest-rated they could. there would be going to set
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expeditions over the results indicate future. put stock in the long-term stockholder hands. it is about the rest of the supply coming to the rest of the market with the lock is off. that is why we continue to have conversations with companies about direct listings as a way to get more supply in the market sooner. emily: i get the point about the long-term. we only have two days of data with poshmark for example, but it is down 18% today. over the long-term, it begged is not look good when you talk about the momentum story, which matters. i wonder if it is putting these companies in a bad position that they cannot seem to get the price right at the start. jeff: all the company control is working with the underwriters to set the president of the ipo. they do not control the first date pop. we've seen a lot of deals pricing above the range, and we have seen a lot of demand. on day one, when they go public,
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was seen a ton of retail demand. retail investors have come in a big way. a big blog post today about the impact of retail, and the impact that that has had on the ipo market. emily: let's talk about transit you're expecting this year. spacs are all the rage, does that keep up? jeff: we are a billion dollars raised in the first two weeks. very study pipeline of new spac in the market. new companies that will be listed on nasdaq. one of the unique aspects of a spac business combination is that the target company to provide projections about their business because it is really a merger, not initial public offering. for lots of earlier stage companies that want to talk about future growth potential, a spac business conversation could be a great alternative to an ipo. emily: startups are suit -- are
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soon to be allowed to raise money on the new york stock exchange without paying big underwriting fees to wall street banks and what you call primary direct listings. this is a pretty big departure from traditional ipo's. i wonder if you are concerned that this might drive more companies to the new york stock exchange? jeff: the sec did approve. new york initial rule following allowed for a limited order for the stock had to be priced within a range on the cover. we have a filing for a market order, which actually allows the company to price the stock newer from 20% below the bottom of the range, all the way to where the price of the stock is on the day of the option. we think a market-based order is a much better approach. we will be doing a similar filing to new york in terms of a limited order. it is one other example of innovation here i nasdaq drive
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the capital markets. emily: if we saw 48 ipo's and the first two weeks of generally, what did the second two weeks look like? an inauguration is coming up and hopefully a peaceful transfer of power. it has been a rocky few days in the markets and in the world and certainly in washington dc. will that impact the next two weeks? jeff: ipo's are always affected by volatility. we are all watching the situation in washington and state capitols around the world hoping for a peaceful transition of power. it was the great names with bubble coming up. -- we will see great names with bumble coming up. watch for exciting names and all of the exciting companies announcing results from the jp morgan health care conference. they'll be looking to price their ipas -- they're ipo's over the coming weeks. emily: thank you, jeff thomas, of the nasdaq, always good to have your perspective.
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whitney wolford was a recent guest on bloomberg studio one point up and you can check out if you've missed it. coming up, shares have been on a tear since the steady rise throughout 2020 and we will speak to the company president elizabeth spaulding about the appetite for apparel and where stitch fix is heading in 2021. that is next. this is bloomberg.
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wave. will the momentum keep up? joining us now is elizabeth spaulding president at stitch fix. stitch fix is betting that the way that we do shopping is going to radically change and at has been working since long before covid-19. what are the trends that you're seeing? our customers changing? -- how our customers changing? elizabeth: thank you for having me, very excited to be here and tell our story. i think one of the reasons that we are saying such great momentum is the innovation in our model. i think for us, we reported back on q1 and we saw some of his strongest momentum that we have ever seen in our business. we added close to a quarter million new customers within that q1. part of it, undoubtably, people are not spending the way they
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have on apparel, will -- we do believe we are the right model at the right time. your point on shopping, the historic stitch fix model, what is so radically different about it, we are hand selecting a limited number of items for each of our customers, based on our understanding of data and what we have amassed on personalization. what is exciting is that over the course of the last year, we have innovated to add a sixth business of curating shopping feed, the idea that you, emily, can walk into your own personal store. when you open our shopping feed as a consumer, you're seeing things that we think are just right for you. every thing face, and everything meets your style. that is what we think is really exciting. people think -- ncr model can be widely ready for everybody. the ultimate shopping destination for personalized selection. emily: some specific lines have
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been seeing a lot of traction, for example stitch fix kids, what are you seeing there and why? elizabeth: arcade business has been on fire, and i think there are a lot of parents who realize they do not have a lifetime. i think that convenience and discovery aspect of it has been appealing. i think because we are so data-driven, live been able to pivot into the right inventory at the time. our kids wonder will there be a back-to-school season with people not having regular school. kids do not need quotes, -- kids still need close. they may not be wearing a uniform, but they still need this comfy and casual clothes. one of the things that we were successful with is a good stock of the business brought our own exclusive brands.
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our strategy allowed us to build product on demand, replenishing some of our goods and quickly as two weeks. emily: kids are still growing and destroying their close. if you have three boys like i do, they do need to be replenished. when the vaccine rolls out, and as the vaccine rose, we are going to come to some kind of new normal even if it takes some time. we will go back to traditional retail stores? what does that mean for stitch fix? elizabeth: that is a great question. i think that no one could predict that this would last as long as it had. what will be like lome can do this things that we used to do. undoubtedly, consumer behavior has changed. we believe that there has been a very accelerated structural shift online. usually, it was around a couple of points a year for apparel and e-commerce. we think more than 10 points has
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shifted, and we think it will stay there and move more quickly. i think consumers are realizing that those who had never shot for apparel, they have given it a shot. if they try companies like stitch fix, they realize how convenient it is, and how easy it is to discover new things. i do not think that people are going to go back to tying on 10 pairs of jeans in a department sir. we are seeing retention levels at all-time highs, and customers are continuing to sign up. that is signaling that people people want to maintain these new behaviors. emily: i know that stitch fix has a stable of exclusive brands, and have been very focused on larger name brands having exclusive offers for stitch fix. one of the biggest -- what are the biggest challenges of managing the inventory and supply, as we continue to face uncertainty at the pandemic? -- of the pandemic>
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elizabeth: i think everyone has had challenges over the course of the last year with supply chains and operating warehouses, if you are in the distribution office and having the right product at the right time. i think because we are such a data-driven business, i think were able to see early on how consumer business was changing. we are often wearing leggings and subheads right now. part of that shift we began to see very early on. likely in general, we had seen a casual invasion in the workforce before that. different success rates of items , natural language processing client request, let us to maintain the inventory. women's athleisure business is up three 5000 -- 350%. funny things like binge watching at home, we found that people were requesting sweaters of
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david from schutz creek. funny things that people have asked for. new product categories that are vied by the consumer right now. emily: in that case, your sweatpants business must be billing. always writing them and less force not to. thank you, elizabeth spaulding for stopping by. coming up, how high could tesla shares go? dan ives is talking over $1200. he is with us next on bloomberg. ♪
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due to the pandemic, it was different this year. it hotel ballroom filled with booths that can be controlled by your voice were trading for virtual. also missing were the key in person run-ins with tech companies. apple, google amazon engineers and unfortunately a clear smash hit finance and. i got a peek at the future of the smartphone with some interesting new tech part. this covers more screen area and is more accurate and works more quickly. that tech could be a precursor to the new iphone announcement this fall. this is something that would've been handy months ago, given the issues with fast facial recognition. lg rolled out another look at its technology.
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lg is already thinking beyond that. imagine being able to roll up a phone in your pocket, as impractical as that sounds. sam centricus and new home robot that can do dishes or pour you a drink. " it is like the jetsons the last robot that was shown still has no release date. the company also owns the next phone line. a bribe was the latest iphone and latest devices. the changes are not groundbreaking. slick looking camera array on the back. the real new territory is a more aggressive pricing strategy. each new model costs $200 less in the previous version. the s 21 ultra.
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coming up against the iphone 12 promax. the new prices should do wonders to help sales and the current global economy riddled by the pandemic. this will continue to bolster samsung as the chief alternative to a iphone. emily: our very own mark gurman with this week's power out. -- this week's "power up." dan ives , shares rose. yesterday closed at 845. the heart and lungs of tesla, he says, are focused on china. 1250, that is pretty hi, dan. we'll get you there -- what
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gets you there? dan: china has had skyrocketed growth. tesla is seeing a disproportionate amount of that. at the that china is worth -- i think that china rose. we are entering a golden age across the board. it continues to be tesla in the lead. emily: what are the risks, and what could slow this down? dan: the risks are probably too full. one, right now in terms of -- competition continues to increase, and you see share shift going domestically more. in the u.s. will seek gm and others --' teslas leadership star suit diminished.
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i think the second is from an evaluation perspective, if demand does not meet some of these expectations, and i think as of right now, we are looking at demand that continues to increase versus transportation. right now inbev market, there is only a handful of markets to play the ev supply changed. -- supply chain. emily: that leads to my next question. what are the main factors that are going to getev's - is it just tesla, or are you factoring and a couple of other players? you said tesla, it is all about them, and everyone else's paying the rent. dan: i think that will be a different story and the next three years. i think politically, a biden
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administration and a blue senate is usually bullish for ev's and a green agenda. i think you will see a doubling down. this will help gm and other players in the eb market in the u.s.. looking across europe and china, is not just the demand, it is the backdrop. you are saying more lower-priced ev's and your stay more regulatory benefits. it is a golden age for ev's across the whole supply chain. we believe the over 10% of all automobile sales. this is a transformation across the whole auto foodchain with not just tesla. we've seen other players that will be reasonably successful. emily: last quick question.
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we have about one minute left, dan. what do think biden means for ev 's? dan: a goldilocks scenario in terms of biden in a blue senate. from a ev perspective, the first 100 days, this will be a major focus in terms of the ev and green agenda, bullish across the supply chain across the board. that is something that is starting to get factored into these stocks. i do believe that biden in a blue senate, that will be the catalyst to get to the u.s. market to the next step. especially as we start to see much more tax incentives and we will call them build outs of ev factories across the board that could be government helped. emily: all right, coming into a golden age of ev's according to
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david: another week for the history books, this is bloomberg wall street week, i am david westin. this week, contributors larry summers of harvard, our guest from the financial times. >> it also means that inflation could be more of a green light. david: and our guest from rock creek. former secretary of homeland security, jeh johnson. >> the action on trump's accounts was extraordinary, but probably overdue.
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