♪ emily: i am emily chang in san francisco, and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up in the next hour, the biden team rolls up its sleeves and starts tackling the pandemic on day one. the virus and the vaccine, we will get all of the details on what they promise will be more coordinated national response. plus, speaking of vaccines, san

francisco mayor london breed says that vaccine supply is not meeting demand. could it be the next new york city, where tens of thousands of shots are being rescheduled? my interview with mayor breed coming up. it is on bloomberg businessweek's list of top 50 companies to watch, twilio, is a stock that is adding a $40 billion of market value in the last year. we will speak to the ceo, jeff lawson. intel and ibm out with earnings after the bell. tech shares led u.s. stocks to an all-time high, and apple closed at a record. for the complete market picture, >> let's kick it off with intel, really knocking it out of the park on the fourth quarter earnings, coming in at $20 billion in the fourth quarter, the estimate was $17.5 billion. shares really liking that, the initial reaction. ibm taking a little bit of a

hit, a little big of a hit, i should say. revenue is coming at $20.4 billion. shares struggling, that's pretty clear. let's take a look at what happened in the broader indexes. you saw the defensive tech lead once again. you saw that the the new york faang index led the gains and ended the day in the green. you saw twitter take a step back. that has led me to to two in particular. once again, that narrative about how much attention twitter now that donald trump is no longer president. at the end of the day, not helping shares that much. an interesting caveat is that airbnb really outperforming on a day when tech was clearly the story. its peers, tripadvisor, expedia, booking.com, not doing that well with the pullback that you saw

in the sector as well. one of the major stories for today was bitcoin taking a tumble after reports that it was actually being used as a double spend, essentially the same coin being used for two transactions, undermining the purpose and safety of bitcoin. you saw investors really sensitive to that story. i want to end this market check with the vaccine story. eli lilly's covid-19 antibody therapy reducing nursing home residents' risk as much as 80%. shareholders are really liking that news. moderna outperforming after its covid-19 study began in japan. pfizer flat on the session but this is pretty normal. that is the dynamic that you saw today. emily: what a roundup. thank you so much for that update. we will continue to watch intel and ibm throughout the meantime, hour. covid-19 cases are declining in 46 states, reducing pressure on

hospitals that have been fighting the virus for almost a year. meantime, the nation's vaccine push is still in its infancy. 17 million doses have been administered. dr. anthony found she joined the white house press briefing today -- dr. anthony found she joined the white house press briefing today and -- dr. anthony found auci joined the white house press briefing today and re-emphasized the importance of the vaccine. michelle cortez is joining us now to discuss the daily briefing of the biden administration press briefings. what in the last 24 hours has actually happened or changed when it comes to vaccines as a result of his leadership? michelle: the biggest change is exactly what you are honing in on, and it is a change of tone. the federal government now under president biden is planning to take a much more activist role, not only in the things that we

can all see, such as the pace of the vaccine rollout, making sure that states get the money and the direction from a unified federal government, but that everyone is moving in the same direction. they are also making information more available. we are hearing from dr. fauci that science is coming, that's what were going to be leaning in. we are seeing tweets from the head of cdc and head of the fda. we have not heard from the cdc much for the past year. to be hearing from them is significant. and also, we are going to be getting dashboards that will make information available to the entire country, in terms of how many vaccines are out there, where they are going, what kind of therapeutics we have, how often testing is happening. in many cases, we have been relying on these organizations, -- news organizations, for example, the bloomberg vaccine tracker. we are really getting this push from the federal government for a coordinated approach, for science to come first, for communication to open up. the biden administration is not

going to want to leave it to the states to do this themselves. they are giving states money, so states can get it done, but they are trying to get people information to help with the embrace of the vaccine process itself. emily: michelle, i'm going to mayor london breed -- going to be speaking to mayor london breed later this hour, and she indicated in our conversation that the supply is not meeting demand. she is optimistic about the biden administration, more coordination is helpful, but do you think he will be able to deliver more doses and more quickly than we have seen so far? michelle: the vaccine manufacturers have been working at a breakneck pace for months. they started to produce these vaccines that we have now well before we knew if they would work at all. the fact that we have vaccinated millions of americans and even more millions around the world within a month and a half of it

being approved, it is astonishing when you look at it. when you have the entire world wanting something, you cannot give something to everyone on the first day. so, the authorization or the calling of the defense production act could help in certain cases. some of the situation is that we are having trouble with vaccinations because we do not have the needles and vials, the plastic packaging. also, the other thing that will help with this is that we are expecting to get some data from johnson & johnson in the next week or so. dr. fauci was talking about that today. that is a one-time shot. so if we can get a completely different approach, one that only has to be given once which has its own supply chain, that can really help as well. in terms of how much the biden administration can accelerate the production, that may be less on its own or just trying to get pfizer and modernity do more. they are doing all that they can.

as we get additional avenues into the vaccine and increase the number of people available to give vaccines and make the supply chain and distribution process more efficient, hopefully we will get to a better number in the end. emily: michelle, amazon has offered its services, and of course, it is also asking that its workers get the vaccine as soon as possible. but they are offering their expertise, their technology communications, ability to help with the rollout. could a company like amazon make a significant impact? michelle: i think it would be dangerous to say that amazon cannot make a big impact, because boy, it has impacted every area that it has gotten into. with the exception of their effort into health care, where they have not actually had that much of an impact yet, and had a couple of setbacks there. i would say that when it comes to health care, it is such an

incredibly regulated area, and the challenges that are there are unique. i do not think that amazon has a lot of experience in distribution. and also the problems with the way that it has to be rolled out. the problem is that we have seen when it comes to things like this, they have not really been -- that as not really been the piece of the puzzle that amazon would address. it is not so much that we are having trouble getting access from the production floor to the place where the vaccination has to happen, it is more once the vaccine has been involved, or transported at the right temperature itself? those things are more individual challenges, not corporate structure challenges that i think amazon would be good at addressing. again, i do not want to rule out amazon. emily: interesting. bloomberg's michelle cortez,

thank you so much for giving us that update. coming up next, more on intel's earning reports and shares jumping after it be forecasts. we know there is a big leadership change with pat gelsinger to become the next ceo. we w (announcer) back pain hurts, and it's frustrating. you can spend thousands on drugs, doctors, devices, and mattresses, and still not get relief. now there's aerotrainer by golo, the ergonomically correct exercise breakthrough that cradles your body so you can stretch and strengthen your core, relieve back pain, and tone your entire body. since i've been using the aerotrainer, my back pain is gone. when you're stretching your lower back on there, there is no better feeling. (announcer) do pelvic tilts for perfect abs and to strengthen your back. do planks for maximum core and total body conditioning. (woman) aerotrainer makes me want to work out. look at me, it works 100%. (announcer) think it'll break on you? think again! even a jeep can't burst it. give the aerotrainer a shot.

pain and stress is the only thing you have to lose. get it and get it now. your body will thank you. (announcer) find out more at aerotrainer.com. that's aerotrainer.com.

♪ emily: intel giving an updated forecast in the current quarter on continued demand for pc's that enable working from home. the stock jumped in late trade. to discuss, we are joined by ed ludlow, who has been listening in on the call. pat gelsinger, the incoming ceo, has been on the call, what has been said so far? ed: they said the big focus in intel is the future of

manufacturing operations. intel has been focused on building in-house and domestically in the united states. while all of its rivals have tended to outsource manufacturing of chips. that has allowed rivals to get ahead of intel, and it is one reason that intel has been under pressure. pat gelsinger has been speaking on the call. he is kind of hedging his bets. he says that the company will continue to build some of its chips in-house, but it will outsource some of them. as bloomberg news reported at the end of last year, intel was in talks with samsung to outsource some of those chip products. that really is the long-term question. the short term for intel was positive results for the fourth quarter and a bullish forecast for the first quarter. it has a sticker that says "intel inside" and that has been the short-term driver for the

company. emily: intel is facing significant challenges with this movement from companies like apple making its own chips and amazon making its own server chips, and to microsoft as well. how is intel going to stand up to that kind of competitive threat? ed: the pressure on intel coming from its own customers looking to develop chips in house. it is seeing rivals just offer more competitive chips. but also on how they go about building their chips, intel has fallen behind on a number of projects. the technology it actually uses to build the semi conductors has not been put into place quick enough. that's where the pressure is coming. that's what investors have been looking for with pat gelsinger, a tech focused guy, a career in -- 30 year career in intel before he left in the early 2000's. that is what he did. he was a chip designer and engineer. bob swan at the helm, he was more of a finance guy, and it

was under his leadership that the tech lead slipped away. that is the focus of intel. intel is the biggest chip maker in the world, but it kind of moved away from what it did best, which was bringing two products -- which was bringing products to market very quickly, and products every year and being very aggressive in technology and the manufacturing process. emily: you are going to keep listening into the call and we will be covering the transition of power as pat gelsinger takes over as new intel ceo. coming up, an entrepreneur has -- serial entrepreneur has some wisdom for businesses looking to compete in the digital economy. whoever builds the best software wins. we will talk about that with twilio cofounder and ceo jeff lawson. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪

so you're a small business, or a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business.

♪ emily: tech is making its mark on this year's 50 companies to watch. announced in the latest issue of "bloomberg businessweek: a guide to 2021." the cloud communication platform twilio has gained over $40 billion in market value since january of last year with high profile companies like nike and -- nike, lyft, and the american red cross. twilio ceo and founder jeff lawson is hoping to teach other businesses in silicon valley on how to navigate business. jeff joins us now. jeff, the pandemic has been a reckoning for a lot of companies. you think companies who can get software right win. those who can't will become obsolete. what do you mean? jeff: i think the pandemic has -- pandemic made even more

apparent a trend that was already happening. 15 years ago, it was set software was leading the world. here we are, the companies that are able to delight their customers in digital, using iphone apps and mobile apps and the web, those are the companies when we do business with them, when they do really well, when they build great software, that differentiates themselves in the eyes of their customers, those -- customers. those are the companies that are winning the hearts and minds and wallets of customers. those are not just startups. it is every industry that is getting challenged. -- challenged by the power of software to upgrade itself and build these better customer experiences. the companies who unleashed their technical talent, the software developers, those are the companies that are able to do a great job of it. i've talked to so many business executives over the years, and

everyone knows how development works. they do not know what goes on to technical. as a ceo and a software developer, i had this unique perspective to help business executives understand what the software developers are doing, how they think, how they work, to ultimately build a bridge to achieve the common goal, which is to build amazing products and digital experiences that delight customers, have millions and -- or billions of customers and that ultimately make the company money. that's what everybody wants to do. emily: twilio has powered things like nike's remote retail transformation. you've helped hospitals connect with patients in the middle of a pandemic. what do you think is your main source of growth post-pandemic? i mean, obviously, the stock has seen an incredible rise. where is the next stage of growth going to come from? jeff: the pandemic accelerated many facets of it, but these roadmaps are far from complete. when we talk to customers, 2020 only accelerated their digital

success. and now, they have so much more to do to delight customers and to fend off competition and grow digital business. twilio is partnering with so many companies, everything from startups to fortune 500 companies who are still in the early stages of digital competition. building the better roadmap that listens to customers and builds better products and experiences, those are the companies that are winning, and that job is never done. twilio is here helping customers from every point in the customer engagement journey, from sales, marketing, to customer support, to help make those experiences modern, integrated, and compelling so that they win the customers's hearts, minds, and wallets. emily: meanwhile, we are seeing a number of big companies leaving the bay area and complaining as they get out the door. venture capitalists heading to miami, for example. i know that you have some thoughts on this. what has gotten you so fired up about this particular issue?

jeff: the tech industry has historically done well, and even during a pandemic, the tech industry did well because our workers can work from anywhere, our products tend to be relevant to the world right now. and so, during a time like this, i think it is our opportunity to give back and look around and say, how can we use our blessings as an industry and individuals and companies to help our communities through this generationally difficult time that so many people in our committees are having? how do we give back? so when i looked around, that's -- so when i look around, it rubs me wrong that people decide to leave and make a big stink about it on the way out. well, sure, there is problems in every city and community, but now is the time to take our blessings and help those in need and help build a stronger community. that is what i am committed to doing here in san francisco. emily: what does the help

involve? i have spoken to a number of lawmakers. i just spoke with mayor london breed. you are going to hear that interview later in the show. we cannot fix the local pool or swing at the park. -- privately, a lot of these folks are saying that there is so much money in san francisco, but we cannot fix the local pool or the swing at the park. how do we get these tech companies and people involved? jeff: it starts by everybody in our community engaging. and sometimes, tech folks have not engaged. i encourage that we tech folks engage in the local community, engage in local civic responsibilites with our civic leaders. number two, for our civic leaders, we need to stop this environment of division. we need to actually think we are one city. we are struggling right now, no doubt about it. we are one city. it is not tech versus non-tech. it is all of us together building a stronger community that will emerge from this pandemic solving problems. whether it is homelessness, hunger, housing, we need a plan for how our community is going

to emerge stronger through this. i think it is up to all of us together to do, civic leaders, companies, individuals, people in tech, people not in tech. let us have one vision for this city and execute it with rigor to build the city that we know it can be, that brings a lot of revenue to the city. the plurality of many other important jobs, let's all be able to live in this one city affordably and successfully, knowing that we are building an amazing city here in san francisco. emily: twilio, along with amazon, is one of the companies that dropped parler as a customer, and i'm curious what you think now that we have a new administration, what you think about the de-platforming of donald trump, and whether or not that was the right call? certainly, there are two sides to the story, and clearly big tech has a lot of power. jeff: well, in a society, words matter. actions matter.

like, there's norms for a reason, so that is how we can all live together successfully. enforcing those norms is kind of up to everybody in our society, but this is nothing new in the -- nothing new. in the off-line world, we know that you cannot walk into a crowded theater and yell "fire." and you can't walk into an ice cream parlor and start shouting racist epithets. you cannot expect to still be a customer there. online services have this as well, and companies are enforcing that as well. basically, if it is illegal off-line, it should be illegal online. it is kind of as simple as that. emily: what is your outlook with -- outlook for the biden administration, tech, and the relationship from washington, d.c. to silicon valley? jeff: i am hopeful that an administration that believes in science and is going to competently help us through the challenges of this pandemic and this financial crisis.

i'm optimistic about the ability for the biden administration to help our country through this really darkest time in our country's history. i also think that between government and tech, i think it is incumbent upon our government, legislators, regulators to understand what is happening with technology. when you watch those congressional hearings with tech leaders, it is apparent how far behind our government leaders are in understanding the impact of tech is having on the world. i think it begins with our elected leaders and regulators building the competency to really understand what technology is doing. what the good aspects of it are, what the harmful aspects are. and then start from there. i think that it is a discussion, and it could be that regulation ends up being what is needed. i don't think that we should have regulation passed by folks who do not understand what is going on. emily: all right, twilio ceo jeff lawson. thank you so much for joining

us. check out the latest edition of bloomberg businessweek, with twilio as a highlight in that -- a highlight in the magazine. coming up, more of "bloomberg technology." president biden's team ready to take on the challenges of cyberspace. we will ask a veteran. that'nethis is bloomberg. ♪

♪ emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i am emily in san francisco. president biden is now tasked with confronting a series of cybersecurity challenges on top of other national concerns, like containing the pandemic, repairing a battered economy. joining us now to discuss what the biggest threat his administration is likely to face and cyberspace are general keith alexander, founder and co-ceo of iron net cybersecurity. he's also the former director of the national security agency. general alexander, good to have you back here on the show. my first question is, where did

the trump administration leave cyberspace? and what is the biden administration walking into? >> i think you have seen a transition of cyber from something that hits to -- that hints to an element of national power. as such, the biden demonstration is faced with how we prepare a nation for something others can use against us as an element of warfare. i think what you saw in solarwinds clearly shows that the threat is big. what the russians did there in terms of stealing information showed the scale, 18,000 companies that they actually implanted with the first stage. this is a huge capability they demonstrated. imagine what they did in 2017 to the ukraine, with destructive now, we are going after the ukrainian tax authority with that exploit and attack.

that wiped that out. it went global, caused billions of dollars in damage. imagine if this had been a destructive attack. we are not ready for it. so, that's one of the key things the president has to pick up. i think he's getting a good team. i think he's got the right players. it's interesting, i know a lot of them from my time in government. i think he is picking a good -- very good team to take this on. emily: paint the picture of what a destructive attack would look like. general alexander, so, a destructive attack -- general alexander: so, a destructive attack you can see what hit fedex. a destructive attack dropped down and destroyed the data on tens of thousands of systems. that means those computers could no longer operate. they turned them on, it was just a blue screen. they would have to be physically be rebooted, each one of those. now look at that across 18,000 companies. that type of attack would cause

mayhem for our government and for industry. so, that is one type of attack. that is a destructive attack. how do we now start to lay out the rules of the road for cyber? what is acceptable behavior and what is not? i think that is one of the things the president is going to need to take on and talk to our european allies, our allies in the pacific and look at what we will and will not accept. i think he would be reluctant to put redlines, because of flexibility and response, but he is going to have to prepare for it. many people ask me, should we respond? my answer is, not until you fix the defense. we are not ready today to defend this country in cyber. as a consequence, the president

has, added to all these other issues he's got, this is a huge issue. remember we also have all of these ransomware attacks hitting schools, hitting other companies. tremendous impact on the economy. we have a big problem in cyber. he is hiring some great folks. but this problem is something we've got to address as a nation. the public and private sector have to work together to address this problem. emily: right. i wonder also about the domestic terror threat. of course, we saw the insurrection at the capitol, which was planned in part on social media. what is your assessment of what happened there? gen. alexander: well, like you and many other americans, i just looked at that and thought, our country shouldn't be like this. we should step back and address these problems. you know, i remember a time going to congress when you could talk between both parties.

we need to get back there. what is good for our nation? i think these kinds of issues and the use of social media to actually provocate these types of events -- we need to get our arms around. what are the rules of the road? how do we educate our people in this area? i was really disappointed and that is probably the best thing i can say on television, with what happened. i think it was wrong. emily: do you think that we need to be concerned about a domestic threat in cyberspace, or is it really the foreign threats that worry you the most? gen. alexander: the foreign threats worry me the most. i think on the domestic space is, how do we get our country back together? you know, this is a big issue president biden faces. he has addressed that in his opening statements yesterday. our country has to work together.

we need to find a road. it is hugely divided when you have 75 million people here. i remember a time and in military commands, you may not like the commander, but that is the person you should support. we've got to get our nation back to that. you know, it's about what's good for the country. and i think while we should vote and everybody can have your opinion, once it's done, we've got to think of a way to heal and get the nation moving forward. that is what i really liked about the military, everyone thinking what is good for this country. we really need to get back there. what's good for our nation? and how do we work together? how do we compromise to get there? emily: you are talking about public and private partnerships. amazon, for example, has just offered to help with vaccine distributions. you don't want companies having backdoors that the government has access to.

what is your advice to the biden team about how to best confront these threats over the next four years? gen. alexander: you know, it's interesting, i saw a joke that my wife got. it said if amazon was asked to do the vaccines, they would be done in a week. if you had amazon prime, it would be done by wednesday. so, i think the government should look at all the methods possible of getting the vaccine out there. what is the best way for a nation? let's get this done. that saves lives. we should do it. we should break down barriers and say, how can we get this out there? i would reach out to industry. get the best advice from business leaders. as they are in creative vaccines, it ought to be the same in administering. i think we've got to mobilize the country to take this on. emily: right.

all right, general keith alexander, we could talk for hours about this. good to have you back on the show. founder and co-ceo of ironnet cybersecurity. thank you so much for joining us. i hope to have you back. twitter has locked out the official account of the chinese embassy to the united states after a post that defended the beijing's government policies in the western region, where critics say china is engaged in forced sterilization of minority uighur women. netsuite, which said uighur women were no longer "babymaking machines" was shared on january 7, removed by twitter 24 hours later. i want to bring in bloomberg's kurt wagner, who covers twitter for us. what exactly happened? >> this tweet violated twitter's rules against dehumanization. that means you can't attack someone based on religion or age, disability, national origin. so obviously, this attack on an

ethnic group in china crossed the line. twitter blocked the tweet. there is now kind of a label in front of it and they basically locked the embassy out of the account until they delete the tweet, which they have not done. emily: the chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman said we hope twitter can adhere to objective and fair principles and not display double standards on the issue. is it just me or does twitter seem to be a bit bolder on the heels of banning the president with enforcing its rules? this time impacting the chinese government. >> i think it is getting bolder. i think part of that is once you have started to make these decisions and you realized that you can do them and you're not going to tank the business every time that you enforce something, i think it just makes the company more confident in doing that. we really saw that way back in may when they first started flagging the president and it

has been a snowball ever since then. it has become less of an issue to do it going forward. i do think they become bolder and a big reason is they got comfortable with the attention that comes with making a big stand like this. emily: now even though president , trump is not on twitter anymore, there is still the question of what is happening to his supporters, in pro-trump forums, whether they are on twitter or telegram or somewhere else. as far as you've seen, how have they been handling this transition of power? what are they talking about? kurt: there were a bunch of stories that came out yesterday that members of the qanon conspiracy theory were pretty shaken up after the inauguration. i think there was a lot of hope from that group that there was going to be something happen at the inauguration, either biden gets arrested or suddenly the military starts to kind of act against the democrats. obviously, none of that

happened. i think for a lot of people who have been buying into this idea that there is a solution here, that trump didn't just lose, but there will be consequences for his loss, were blown away by what happened yesterday. that's a very small and aggressive part of his base. i think for them, yesterday was quite devastating. all right, -- emily: all right, kurt wagner for us. i know you will be continuing to follow this. thanks for stopping by. coming up, how many people can get vaccinated for covid-19 per day in san francisco? when will the shelter-in-place order be lifted? we are going to hear from san francisco mayor london breed next. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ emily: president biden has unveiled a national strategy to combat covid-19, saying the pandemic is likely to claim another 100,000 lives over the next month. i spoke to san francisco mayor london breed earlier to hear her biggest concerns about the ongoing outbreak and whether the city will face a major issue in vaccination supply, like new york city. take a listen. mayor breed: my biggest concern that, you know, in san francisco, even though we have a low death rate, we still see over 300 cases per day on average. and i think people are just kind of tired of covid and want to get back together again, understandably so. people want to open their businesses. so i just think people have had enough. but the fact is, you know, we are still not in a good place. we still have more hospitalizations than we have since the beginning of the pandemic.

we still are seeing people die, even though san francisco has been doing better than most major cities, and we still see new cases. and so, my biggest concern, of course, is that people are tired of it and making decisions to get back together and avoid the recommendations that we make around large gatherings. emily: now, there was some concern about san francisco being on the verge of running out of vaccine, given that big moderna bash in california that was -- batch in california that was put on pause. that has been cleared. i understand supply isn't a concern right now, but there is inconsistent supply across the country. what has been the biggest challenge in the vaccine rollout so far? could san francisco, for example, ever have to cancel or postpone appointments like new york has had to do? 4 well, -- mayor breed: well, the challenge

of course is getting the vaccinations. we have in our health care system alone in tier 1a, under the guidelines of our prioritization of the vaccine, we have over 200,000 people alone in our health care network, people who are elderly in many of our nursing care facilities. so, when you talk about 200,000 people in that first tier, and they need two doses each, we need at least 400,000 vaccines alone for that population. but the city of san francisco has only received about 100,000 vaccines. so, it's all about the supply. we have opened up a number of facilities throughout san francisco where we are collaborating with private health care providers so we can deliver at least 10,000 vaccines per day. the fact is, the biggest challenge we have right now is the number of vaccines we have not received. emily: what do you think will actually change about the

vaccine supply under the biden administration? do you think he can do a significantly better job getting more doses out there than trump would have? mayor breed: i am so hopeful. i have a lot of confidence in president biden and the work he has already started to do. he's made it clear that he's going to use every resource at his disposal to begin the process to produce vaccinations at a higher rate, to use the military if necessary to help administer and set up large facilities to start to administer the vaccine. i think that this is the number one priority for him. because our economy is suffering and people are dying. we need to get our country back on track, so this should be the top priority. emily: a goal has been set to get all san francisco residents vaccinated by june. how likely is that to happen? mayor breed: it is likely to happen if we get the vaccine.

so, we have the capabilities, not just with the large sites set up all over the city, at city college, but we also have a number of community clinics. we are also working with cvs and safeway and walgreens. walgreens actually helped us vaccinate the employees and the patients at laguna honda hospital. we had over 700 patients at laguna honda hospital. everyone has been vaccinated that has agreed to a vaccination. and so, i think that it's really a matter of getting the vaccines. if we get the vaccines and are able to do 10,000 plus vaccines a day, that goal will be met. emily: let's talk about the shelter-in-place, which is still in place. what is your outlook on when that will be lifted? mayor breed: well, san francisco is in an okay place. but as you know, the entire region is on a lockdown order

and the state has not lifted the lockdown order. but i think we are on track. our reproductive rate is just a little bit over 1.0. we want to get it below 1.0, of course. our hospitalization rates are still high. but i am optimistic. we are not seeing the numbers drastically increase like they were at one point. we are starting to see them go downwards. i think that gives me hope that hopefully sometime february we will see some reopenings occurring. emily: part of my conversation there with san francisco mayor london breed. we also spoke about the state of tech in the city of san francisco, companies and people leaving the city. we will have more of that conversation tomorrow on "bloomberg technology." you can also find more at bloomberg.com. all right, coming up, instacart lays off nearly 2000 workers. the reasons and and realities in the gig economy, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ emily: instacart is cutting about 1900 employee jobs, including 10 workers who recently formed a union. this as the company seeks to boost its ranks of contract workers. to discuss, we are joined by bloomberg's josh eitel, who covers labor for bloomberg. anecdotally, it seems like people are using instacart now more than ever. why is this happening? josh: instacart's overall workforce has ballooned. we are talking about more than 500,000 instacart workers who the company because -- the company calls independent contractors.

these are workers not protected who are not protected by the same minimum wage and other legal protection. in contrast, instacart's smaller group of employees, who it is able to manage and control and train more actively while following the law, that group is shrinking. so, these 1900 or so workers who are among less than 10,000 in-store, front-line employees, according to the union, that were on instacart's direct payroll, that means there is now significantly fewer direct instacart employees and they are an even smaller percentage of the company's overall workforce. that's a change from six years ago when instacart was signaling a move towards training more workers, employees. instacart's ceo told our colleague, brad stone, that that was something that was going to improve the quality of the work that the workers were doing.

emily: right. now, instacart in a statement said we are doing everything we can to support in-store shoppers through this transition. this includes transferring impacted shoppers to other retailer locations. working closely with retail partners to hire impacted choppers for roles they are looking to fill, providing shoppers with transition assistance. -- assistance as they explore new work opportunities. they are also getting separation packages depending on their tenure with the company. that said, part of this is because instacart and retailers themselves are sort of transitioning how they do this, in fact, sometimes stores are having their own employees pack the grocery bags and leave them for curbside pickup. talk to us about the transition happening in the weeds. josh: instacart says that part of the reason the change is

happening is, as you said, retailers will have their own employees using instacart technology to do fulfillment. -- fulfillment of orders. instacart's description of this is there are a range of different models they use. sometimes, they expand one and shrink another. they say that some of the workers whose jobs will be eliminated will end up going to work for those retailers instead. emily: it's a huge workforce. you said 500,000. how are workers feeling about this? you know, you mentioned 10 of those being let go were part of a union. josh: the united food and commercial workers union has been denouncing this, saying it is a particularly cruel thing to do during a pandemic, considering the essential service that workers have provided and the risk they have taken on. they are noting these are the

only workers in the united states who won union recognition and were in the process of negotiating a collective bargaining agreement. this is essentially snuffing out of a small but noteworthy foothold that organized labor established there. emily: in terms of your broader outlook on instacart, i'm sure a lot of folks would say they could not live without it, but does the business itself seem to only be getting bigger? josh: it has had explosive growth. and there is reason to think that that will build on itself. we have seen in california how significant this issue of who an employee and who is a contractor is to the future of the company and future of the people doing the work and what kind of risks they are suffering for what. emily: right. all right, well, josh, always appreciate your coverage of workers and the issues they are facing. josh eidelson there.

we will keep following that story come of course. coming up, "bloomberg daybreak: asia" after "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> the following is a paid program. the opinions and views expressed do not reflect those of bloomberg lp, its affiliates, or its employees. ♪ >> the following is a paid program for u-box, sponsored by u-haul. >> hi, i'm nick. >> and i'm teresa. we want to welcome you to this episode of "moving insider." we are featuring the amazing u-box by u-haul. >> it is the go to