>> areas of excess liquidity and boundless enthusiasm, many bubbles are forming in markets. >> it's not the overall market. >> from a financial stability perspective the system is robust . >> we don't have signals that it will be systemic. >> the fed is very much keen on keeping rates in place. >> we have seen a market with confidence that there is somebody at the back there. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance."

tom: good morning, everyone. on radio, television, simulcast, we are thrilled you are with us. all kinds of issues going on. mario draghi in italy, getting that attention. we also turned back to the economics of the nation, william dudley joining us here, a former new york fed president here with the biden administration under the radar. it's a shift and thanks to citigroup for the research this morning, citigroup had a stunning 200 and 50,000 for jobs on friday and the survey was 50 and now 70 and they are all over the map. jonathan: the spread on the top end, we've got 250, -250, with consensus being one thing and the spread is right now wide, wide, wide going into friday.

adp report tomorrow morning, initial jobless claims before the big one. tom: claims i will be watching with agony. futures are up 10 on the screen, noting dollar strengths with the euro at 119, a symbolic deal. the draghi news in italy, lisa, you have been dead on about the partition of the american economy. lisa: the concern is will the economy recover enough to take the emphasis off the white house getting the deal through in that seems to be the tone after the cbo put out a report with the u.s. economy recovering faster than expected. how quickly could it lose momentum if there isn't another shot in the arm in the form of stimulus should mark jonathan: your observation right now, the symbolism of the ecb president helping his nation?

jonathan: it's the face of stability and it looks like he will form a government there with yields lower and it is that straight form and. down in italy we will be sure of that. tom: mike mckee is on the backend of this nonstop half-hour. william dudley will be with us, terse on the vaccine and the pandemic and where we are, but right now sharon bernstein joins us. to say that he's a member of the council of economic advisers to president biden, that barely describes his public service to liberals and conservatives. he's a liberal economist that conservatives have been forced to read. representing the biden administration. jared, can you apply stimulus in a narrow enough way to help those so beleaguered in the economy?

>> sure we can. much of what's in the american rescue plan is targeted at those in the bottom leg of this case shaped recovery, a recovery where many folks never missed a paycheck and were able to work from home and so on while so many others were stuck bearing the brunt of the pandemic and the economic crisis. for example, we expanded the child tax credit to make it fully refundable. this reduces child poverty by 50%. that's top shelf targeting, from my perspective. tom: we have a history of decades of lock in individualism . john taylor, stamford, clearly a conservative economist, shows the veil on automatic stabilizers that benefit all of us where the haves are benefited by the stabilization of the have-nots. explain in this natural disaster

how the haves will demi -- benefit from stimulus for the have-nots. jared: our automatic stabilizers often shut off too quickly. one problem we have had and it's one of the reasons the american rescue plan is so urgent, we have had this kind of air pocket created by this wait and see what happens next so that we get behind the curve and we need to make sure that the stabilizers are kicking in with the alacrity that we needed to embedded within the plan. look, this is a matter of if gdp is a spectator sport for half of the academy, -- economy, it's not going to achieve the goals of the biden harris administration and we have to start building the connective tissue that reconnects gdp growth to the prosperity of all with a special sensitivity to racial equity and that is in this plan.

it's also in the more build back better broad plan coming later. jonathan: there's aid and then there's stimulus. is this just aid with stimulus coming later? jared: i definitely think of this in terms much more of relief initially than stimulus. there are a lot of people who can't go back to work until it's safe to go back in the water, so one of the key parts of course of the rescue plan, i heard you guys talking about the european union having great trouble with this and it is reflected in their economy, not only controlling the buyers, but producing and distributing the vaccine in a way that is much more driven by science, much more organized with a clear federal presence. the connection, as i'm sure your team knows, between controlling the virus and launching a robust recovery is extremely tight. that's where president died and

is coming from. that's why the urgency of acting now is so acute. jonathan: we understand the relief part, what does the stimulus bill down the road look like, jared? jared: i guess i wouldn't think of so much as a stimulus bill. down the road with the help of the rescue plan, the economy should be moving in the direction that we need it to. this gets to the point i was making a second ago. it's not enough to have gdp growing at trend. we have to make sure it's reaching people who have hereto for been left behind. standing up a childcare sector that has really never existed in this country to give parents a chance to get into the job market if that's what they want to do. taking a real stab at clean energy. making sure that we deal with the kind of racial inequity that has plagued this economy for so long in the era of housing and criminal justice. that is the kind of broader,

structural change to stimulate around structural and the latter is a structural approach. lisa: in order to get there, what's more important? $1400 checks for each family or local and state aid should mark -- aid? jared: we can't do either or in this case and that's a good example. we are in a discussion with republicans who in many cases share the urgency that we do and want to take a different route to get there. i think the key to the rescue plan, as the president articulated, it's really calibrated to meet all the various different needs we have right now. families are struggling, we need those checks. we just got polling data, clocking in at 75% approval. but the state and local sector needs help to reopen schools and finally distribute the vaccine,

control the virus, and put covid-19 behind us. lisa: how important is it to get this bill through, given the lack of consensus on the hill? especially if there isn't the onus on getting economic growth? tom: -- jared: you know, i've got to say i think the bipartisan support for this kind of relief is actually much broader than you might think. there's the hill, that's one thing and i get what you are saying, but these polling results show something like two thirds of the american people support the president's approach . and if you look at the business roundtable chamber of commerce, the folks on your show, they support this plan. republican mayors support this plan. the former trumpet chief economist supports the plan.

it's a much broader sense of the urgency and relief and i think what we are arguing about washington is a set of details that are important to policy wonks like me and you, but for the american people they just need to get relief out there as soon as possible. jonathan: i don't mean to be flippant about it, but you would expect of the approval rating for checks coming from the government to be high anyways, wouldn't you? jared: but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing. in other words, this is a time when we have to look at the shortfalls americans are facing. the checks have gotten a lot of flak. look at a family with $75,000, for example. many of these folks have savings rates, this is not well known, i looked at this the other day. if you look at people who have zero or who are near zero on savings rates, you get pretty quickly up to income levels

around 75, even higher. now, many of these folks are engaged in mortgage moratorium or rent moratorium. meaning they are accumulating significant debt. at some point when these moratorium and forbearance on mortgages ends, these families are going to face massive debts. the idea that some of this, some of these direct payments are saved and not spent initially is a feature, not a bug. but we have seen in earlier rounds is they are initially saved and then there's an air pocket that they are spent and there are middle-class families struggling here. tom: one more question, you and i have known each other for years and i always ask this question when a new president is minted. the president has you into the oval office, he's sitting around a couch and there's a way that any given president takes in economic data, economic advice,

economic perspective. what is the biden method in the oval office? jared: it's a great question. he sits in a chair, we sit on a couch. he asks of our economic advice and he absorbs it through what i think of as a kind of political economy filter. he's not looking to me to give him political advice. once, when i did so, he reminded me that i couldn't be elected dog catcher. [laughter] he's very, joe biden has really sharp political antenna. he knows what he knows, he knows what he doesn't know. he comes to us for political advice and he thinks through the political machinations to get to the economic place that meets his vision. jonathan: final question from me, i've sort of got to talk about this, do you think that $75,000 for a family isn't enough in america in 2021?

jared: i think it's hard to say it -- say a blanket statement like this, but i can tell you that there are lots of families with that income level who have struggled to make ends meet, keep grooves over their head, to meet not only their basic needs but their aspirations, to send kids to college or pay for affordable childcare. as you know, it's not just the level, it's the derivative. families at that level and stuck at that level, even though they are working hard in the economy is increasingly productive with wealth accumulation, we know that the bottom half of families have almost zero in terms of equity in the stock market. jonathan: just a jump in, we only have a couple minutes and i need this follow-up in, as a family growing up there were years we had far less than that, believe me i understand what you are talking about here, but this goes beyond pandemic relief. you are talking about a real

ideological shift in the role of government and if you want ideological agreement in d.c., that's a big ask, isn't it? jared: i mean it is and it isn't. i think the role of government has to be to provide opportunities for families to get ahead. for them to reap the benefits of the productivity they are helping to generate. they are helping to make a bigger pie, they should get bigger slices, whatever the income level. the problem is those bigger slices have only been going to the narrow top, top 1%, top 5%. i think the key here is partially the levels. we talked about that, families meeting aspirations. but also the idea that if you are playing by the rules, you ought to be able to get ahead and that connective tissue has been torn over the years by policies that have been very insensitive to those in the middle class and down and we are trying to, we are going to try to fix that.

jonathan: look forward to continuing that conversation with you, jared. tom, it's a huge discussion that needs to take place down in d.c. and i argue it goes way beyond pandemic relief. tom: a political discussion that goes back to the political theories coming out of world war ii, the social needs, the social construct of america. it's fluid right now as you can see, in the last few weeks of debate in washington. jonathan: adp report dropping. what's it for? tom: along with citigroup. jonathan: remember, for nonstop payrolls in december we had to read the -140, so a nice tidy upside on price, 174. in a moment we will be waiting to see what the employment services component looks like with claims as well. previous month revised to a better, though ugly, -78,000 as well. big conversation every month

about the fall on the adp, but the direction is helpful and the direction this morning is better. tom: a nice bounce off the challenges we have seen, including perspective going back to the labor economy of 1939. joining us now, william dudley. his work at goldman sachs for years, we are thrilled that bill dudley could join us writing from bloomberg opinion today. bill dudley, i look at where we are in the greater scheme of things and there will be a point now in the future where the day to day work of the fed to support the economy is over and they begin to pull away from the monthly fundings they are doing. pulling away from the jargon in the speeches providing ultimate accommodation. are we close to that moment? bill: no. the fed has basically told us that it is premature to talk

about that. that even beginning to wind down the greater asset purchases, the fed is not going to do anything different at least until late fall, early next year. tom: that may be the policy as well, but then bigo fed meeting to fed meeting. you may be in the crucible with little sentences coming out in speeches from cleveland, kansas city, san francisco and the pressures that you faced in new york. are we going to see it from out in the speeches of federal officers in coming months? bill: it really depends on how strong the rebound in the economy is. what we are hoping is that people get vaccinated and once they are vaccinated, social distancing can be relaxed in the economy can be reopened and when that happens it should accelerate sharply with a big increase in demand in the leisure and hospitality areas in particular.

that could be a pretty strong second half of the year if things go well. at that point the fed will start to think about it, how do we start a pullback? the fed doesn't want to pull back prematurely. there are still people who have lost their jobs pandemic started . they don't want to pull back to early and if they do, bond yields go up, stock markets go down, making it harder for the fed to achieve objectives. lisa: as we get closer, there's the question of stability risk and how you measure it in a time of shadow banking and a time of robinhood traders in a time of other structural changes to the market. you put out a column about this. do you think the fed is engaging with systemic risk correctly as they looked towards a hotter economy? bill: the problem they have is at some point they will have to turn the dial back from

significant accommodation and when they touch the dial, when they are perceived to have been about to touch the dial, markets are going to react and it will be difficult for the fed to avoid a bond taper tantrum. you are either all in or you are not and when that happens, markets are going to react. lisa: you mentioned mutual funds and ways to protect against runs on the fund. do you view this as a viable risk going forward if there is a taper tantrum, like you are saying? bill: it depends, but they are invested in high-yield debt with funds basically telling people that they can get their money out overnight and you can't actually, if a lot of people show up to get their money back, the market can't absorb that much mutual bonds being sold into the market and it makes sense for illiquid mutual funds

to tell people you don't get overnight, it's monthly and that gives the mutual fund manager time to liquidate assets in an orderly way so that you don't have the fire sale of assets to depress prices further. tom: unfair question, but you know i'm legendary for that. john emails and says to ask dudley about draghi. you would be on the shortlist of technocrats to take over the american government if we were in political crisis. we know that. you, secretary yellen, dr. bernanke and the rest. bill dudley, what is your perspective on what draghi is being asked to do? how do guys like you turn into politicians? is it doable? bill: well, mario draghi is extraordinarily skilled as an economist and a diplomat and he has the political skills to take a political position.

you saw that in terms of how he handled the european central bank during the european crisis. doing whatever it takes. that will be enough. that was a very important statement. it showed a lot of sensitivity to the political side of things. i think that if he were put in power in italy to try to be a party of unity, he would be effective in that job. but that's about who he is as a person, not because he's a former central banker. jonathan: a paradigm shift. tom, bill is right. when you think back to when draghi stepped up, it was a hike in rates a few times and if my memory is correct in 2011, draghi came on board and the idea of taking rates negative, the ecb, a large central bank like that wasn't really in the conversation at all. the idea of perching corporate credit wasn't in the conversation. the idea of getting germany to

come along for the ride to purchase sovereign debt, it was a paradigm shift and i wonder if in your mind we have taken this too far at central banks. bill: well, we won't know for a while, but clearly they have done amazing things to support economic activity in a pandemic and how it plays out in the long run is, like they say, it's too soon to tell. bill: the act -- jonathan: the economist and you, did we sacrificed dynamism? bill: i think we have to worry about low interest rates keeping companies afloat that shouldn't be afloat, so-called zombie companies, that can interfere with the reallocation of capital from bad uses to better uses, so we will see how it goes. the u.s. economy is pretty dynamic and capital does move to its best use, so at this point i wouldn't say i'm that worried about it but again, we have never done this before.

we don't have any experience in terms of what the recovery will look like so i think it's premature to say geez, i know that this is going to work. tom: real quickly -- lisa: real quickly, before we let you go, how do you view the gamestop saga? is it evidence of froth? bill: you really shouldn't buy assets when they are well above their intrinsic value. if you do that, you will lose money eventually because eventually there will be more sellers than buyers. to make money on gamestop at $200 per share, the only way you make money is if there are other people that come in behind you to buy the stock and push it to higher levels and that's not a sound proposition when the intrinsic value of the company uch lower. jonathan: great to catch up, bill dudley.

we are off the highs but put it together with a few days, this market advances and there's good reason for it. the conversation with earnings from the big players, there's a reason to be up here and is not just central bank policy. tom: down to 24.57, i want to focus on the intraday chart, gamestop, becoming what i will call volatile. right now it is trending on -- trending ugly. it hasn't broken, it's down from the 90 level close but it has some elegance to it where there is a set of lower highs, meaning you wonder what it will really jonathan: be. at a week it has -- early b. jonathan: we -- really be. jonathan: we have to draw a

distinction between what's happened this week with stupidity like celebrities saying holding the line and then you've got sophisticated stuff that engineered the move to begin lisa: lisa: with. -- begin with. lisa: did they? these chat rooms, that's one thing regulators are looking at and that's what it's highlighting, the mark -- anonymous factors. jonathan: so you refuse to say if reddit engineered the short squeeze? lisa: know if it had been on retail. -- no, if it had been on retail. jonathan: we had that conversation. my snobbery is them saying that it can't be retail because it was too smart. that's what i'm pushing back on. tom: you mentioned skin in the game, i can't say enough about

the book "anti-fragile," explaining so much about what we have seen over the last several days. jonathan: good morning. equities up, this is bloomberg.

jonathan: things are stacking up quite nicely over the past couple of days. on the stimulus front, talks are still continuing. even without republican help, president biden seems to want to get this done. earnings, alphabet, amazon, tick. the previous two days, up 3%, a two day pop on the s&p. we have the cyclicals, the small caps. this morning, you don't get that. underperforming on the russell. switch up the board, and let's get some story on the bond markets. i will do it quickly. tom: take your time. jonathan: how long have i got? tom: i'm thinking an hour, but cut it back 40 minutes. jonathan: i'm going to let it

breathe. bond market is down. the 1.1237%. going to sit on that for a little bit. -40 basis points on the -- what is your call on bunds? how can we tolerate high-yield if you are bearish on treasuries, given the amount of debt we have added on the sovereign and corporate side in the last nine months alone? that is a question for the treasury bears for the rest of this year. tom: are you done? on radio and television, jonathan ferro. go exit stage left. lisa abramowicz, jonathan ferro and tom keene. we have been deficient in helping you with what matters, because what matters is the

american labor economy. adp and unemployment claims and onto a jobs report. mike, we have just up and paying attention. the numbers look pretty good on the jobs report don't they? michael: let me put that on hold because you guys are laughing about the bond market but i have fun market news for you. three treasury came out with their auction sizes. they significantly lowered the amount they are going to borrow this quarter. still a record $26 billion in the first quarter. they divided it up this way. 58 -- the 30 year bond, $37 billion. they say they can handle the $900 billion stimulus. this does not include the money that joe biden wants to spend. they might have to update that.

the treasury continues to face uncertain and sizable borrowing needs, due to expenditures associated with the government response to covid-19 as well as the impact on economic activity. if they need more money, they will address any variations in borrowing needs over the next quarter, through changes in regular bill sizes. lisa: in other words, if this $1.9 trillion stimulus passes as stated, they can go out anytime they want and say just kidding, we will issue a lot more debt, a record amount of $500 billion of debt. that could happen? michael: that could happen. they are leaving their options open at this point. if they have any unexpected revenue shortfalls, they will use bills to fill the hole. they are trying to keep down the number of coupons they are selling. tom: but jonathan ferro, it moves the market.

we are on to a solid 1.12 in the 10 year. jonathan: yields are up the curve. we don't get worried yet, do we? michael: know, and the market seems to have trouble holding those numbers. i think it will depend on the virus and the economy, if we start to see strength in the underlying numbers, and you will see more of a reaction in the bond market, and that brings us back to tom's original question about bonds. adp comes in at 174,000, that was a big surprise. the forecast was 70,000, which matches the forecast for nonfarm payrolls on friday. u can see how closely adp has tracked the nonfarm payrolls,

private payrolls numbers over the recent month. you might have that longer-lasting reaction. tom: we will have that wednesday, thursday and friday as we dive into the american labor economy. right now, megan greene joins us, writing a really interesting thoughtful note of what could go wrong. i call at the abramowitz plan, because this is what lisa is always thinking, which is murphy's law and what is going to go wrong is going to go wrong. megan, you are channeling lisa abramowicz here. what can go wrong for president biden? megan: first of all, you have to look at the virus. the virus dictated the downturn and it will indicate the shape of the recovery as well. there are some positive signs. we've managed to address some of the snafus in the vaccine rollout in the u.s., certainly not globally. there are these new variants, the u.k. variant is showing some new mutations that show they might be slightly vaccine

resistant and there is more opportunity for more mutations. we need a higher herd immunity in order to address this virus or if it becomes vaccine resistant, then that should have an impact on growth. there is a real distinction between -- and pent up demand. the consensus is that we will have a widely distributive vaccine and we will release a lot of pent up demand. the second half of this year is dependent on the vaccine, so that is a risk. the pent up demand is a risk, too. we have already cut rates to zero in march will stop all of the interest-rate sensitive sectors like housing and auto loans have already rebounded, and some of that demand looks like it might be tapering off. usually those sectors drive a recovery, but it might not be the case this time around.

you can see this all over the labor markets, the number of long-term unemployed people has more than doubled in the past couple of months. the number of permanent unemployed has exceeded the number of temporary unemployed. the labor market is healing, but there is a long way to go. it was always going to be much easier to heal the labor market at the beginning of the recovery. some of this scarring could offset the pent up demand investors are hoping for. lisa: pent up demand might not be the way people think it is. i want to go to jared bernstein, and what he was saying. this may go to paying down some of the debt that has been accumulating like rent deferrals and other put off bills. in other words, we are not going to get much of a spending boom because money is going to go toward what is put aside in the meantime. megan: i think that is right. the u.s. economy has fared much

better than most economists expected through this crisis, and it is partly because of stimulus measures but also because of forbearance. there has been an unbelievable amount of forbearance on the corporate and individual side. eviction moratoriums is a great example of that. once those expire, once you get the checks back to people, a lot of that is going to go into paying down that they already owe -- paying down debt that they already owe. we have to consider that a lot of the money is going to go into that. the size of the spending bill, some have said it is just way too big. the risk of providing too little is way bigger than the risk of providing too much, in part because of jared's point. jonathan: we have been conditioned that when we reopen, we can snap act quickly. do you think that is misplaced? megan: i think it is.

i think people will remain cautious for a while. i think our consumption patterns have fundamentally changed as well. that doesn't mean we will necessarily have a drag on demand, but i think there will be some kind of adjustments for sectors we have been supporting and the labor market adjustment has to happen, and that does not happen quickly. a lot of these unemployed people will need reskilling to move into new industries. i do think that this idea that we will just snap back quickly might be a little -- jonathan: president biden meeting with democratic senators about the stimulus later today. your thoughts? what are you looking for, this friday when that payroll support drops -- payrolls report drops?

megan: it is incredibly uncertain, the number of new jobs in a rated will depend on seasonal. usually you have a lot of seasonal workers who are laid off in january, but we did not have that many seasonal workers this time around. the range on estimates is incredibly wide, but i think we have seen evidence of scarring in the labor market with jobless claims. the nonfarm payrolls number will matter more than it usually does. jonathan: megan, thank you. megan greene of the harvard kennedy school. looking to payrolls friday, 17,000 in our bloomberg survey. tom: it's got to come up. jonathan: from -50 k all the way up to positive 400. tom: as a habit, it moves up or down based off of adp. you have to wonder where claims

are, if we really pull in under 900,000, well under 900,000, to confirm what we are hearing and what we see. jonathan: -- i think you have to have a look at that, the employment component and see where we are at. lisa: especially with services. we have seen manufacturing be really strong but the service side has been really dampened by the spread of covid and the weather because you have not been able to eat outside. you have been able to, but it has been less pleasant. have you done it? jonathan: i have, but it was cold. it was a great experience, rate to be back in new york. -- great to be back in new york. lisa: this is great. this is like an aesthetic. jonathan: do you believe her? tom: i am just reliving my last eat out.

pepperoni slices. jonathan: i know which one you go to. 94th and madison? tom: it is wonderful. they have the little tables. jonathan: nice. lisa: he wears his thigh high boots. jonathan: i believe he wears those matter where he gets his pizza from. this is bloomberg. ♪ ritika: with the "first word news," i am ritika gupta. founder and ceo jeff bezos will step down from the world's largest company. for years he has been seen as a potential successor -- european union faces a big price tag for its bungled rollout of the coronavirus vaccine. bloomberg crunched the numbers

and the eu economy is operating at about 95% of its pre-pandemic level. that's about $14 billion a week of lost output, unless it makes up ground, the eu will have to keep lockdowns in place while other major economies back to work. the second test flight of spacex's new deep space vehicle ended in another fireball. engines appeared not to reignite during the landing attempt. a launch in december also ended in a crash landing. the starship was conceived as a full reusable craft that could carry missions to the moon and mars. chinese relators have agreed on a restructuring plan. it will turn a fintech diet into a financial holding company, making it subject to capital requirements similar to those for banks. china cracked down just days before what would have been a record ipo, forcing the company to withdraw the share listing. global news, 24 hours a day, on

air and on quicktake, powered by over 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> i am not making new laws. i am eliminating bad policy. what i am doing is taking on the

issues that 99% -- the last president issued exec give orders that i felt were counterproductive to our security and who we are as a country. tom: the president of the united states, now he is president biden. in october, in december, this is the conversation i want them to have. no one i know more than william cowan of maine has been out front in america on our demographic change. he coined the phrase brown america, years ago. william cowan has led america on demographic shift and on the political realities of the moment. of course with a hugely successful group in washington, nicholas burns among some of his attendees. would nicholas burns make a great ambassador to russia?

william: he would make a great ambassador to any country, including russia. he is one of the most skilled diplomats we have available, and i would recommend him for any post. he is a tremendous asset to the cohen group and i would like to see nick act in the public sphere again. he is smart, he is really knowledgeable. he can draw upon people all over the world, to help him make decisions. tom: bill cohen, years ago, way out front on the changes of america. this phrase he used with me once, years ago where you talked with an intensity about brown america. it's here. how do we adapt to it? william: we have to adapt to the change, by saying this is who we purport to be. this country is made up of immigrants. the rule has always been to come

to america, legally, but come to america, where it is the land of opportunity. if you work hard and play by the rules, you will be able to start from the bottom and move your way up to the middle class and hopefully even up to the top. that has been the america we have always advocated. so now we see what is taking place. the country is becoming browner, and that is going to happen inevitably. the question is, can we overcome our innate sense of prejudice, racism, and accept people for who they are? what they contribute to society, what their character is, as opposed to the color of their skin? we have to adapt to that. that is the reality. what is taking place today with the former president was to do everything he could to put his hands up and say no, we will remain a white nation, not a brown nation. lisa: do you still consider yourself republicans? william: i do, because i don't

think what happened the last four years or beyond that has been republican philosophy. i would call it more putinism on the potomac. there was no governing policy. the former president did not have a philosophy. he was said to be transactional, not strategic but there was no platform, that republicans traditionally have gathered around, the rule of law, peaceful transfer of power, equal opportunity and justice, embracing allies. open markets, freedom of the capitalist system with a light touch with government intervention. there used to be people in the party who espoused that. i go back to bob dole, howard baker, dan coats, al simpson, chuck hagel. i could go down the list of republicans who were basically in the center, some more right

to the center, including dick cheney, and now his daughter who is serving in the house. but that was basically a party that respected the rule of law, and we have not seen the rule of law take place in the last four years. we've seen a person who wanted to be not only antigovernment but anti-governance. there is no sense of governance. he was going to control everything, and tried to political -- and tried to politicize the three independent branches we have. lisa: let's look at joe biden's presidency going forward and what his biggest challenges are going to be, now that we've put the trumpcare behind us. it is no longer a vote for the anti-trump, but what biden is actually going to do. what is your biggest concern or hope for his presidency? william: my hope is that he will get the coronavirus under control, because without getting control of that, and developing

some herd immunity through the vaccination program, i don't think there is an economy that can survive. i don't think there is a president that can survive. getting the virus under control, i hope you can achieve that and i hope you can do it with bipartisan support. i think the gap is too big now, and he is under pressure to go forward without republicans, but in his heart, he wants to reach across and that is the reason he had republicans in the oval office before he had democrats. that was a positive signal he was trying to step. whether they can narrow the gap and say we will come up and you will come down, the important thing is to do it fairly rapidly. the longer it goes on, the longer they are going to be disenchanted. tom: one final question on joseph chamberlain. i looked at the battle we had, the ebb and flow of it. to our listeners and viewers of

all political persuasions, how do they battle this perpetual white supremacy? william: it comes through education, and it comes early. as my wife liked to say, babies are not born bigots. the views and values that their parents impart to them start early and once it sets in, it is very difficult to change. i think education, rebutting harmony as much as we can, looking at other peoples histories and trying to be sensitive to what our history has been and what it needs to become, education is the key, and being open to ideas that challenge you, and to basically be pensive to the needs of human beings -- be sensitive to the needs of human beings. we all have our flaws and idiosyncrasies that if we are going to survive on this planet, we have to treat each other with

love, respect, decency and honor. we take those characteristics away, that i don't think any society thrives. tom: william cowan, -- william cohen, too many topics and not enough time. lisa, the political thoughts here, the news flow has been extraordinary, and we still are turning to washington. lisa: one thing i find fascinating is that being a centrist is becoming an increasingly radical proposition. it has been easier to be on either side, and this idea of a radical centrist is something that is taking hold as joe biden tries to get a consensus. that is something i'm struggling to understand, whether he will be able to do that. tom: i will steal that phrase from lisa abramowicz, radical centrist. futures up 15. the dow even, the nasdaq giving me some love. your story for global wall street this morning. higher yield and the idea of a

steeper yield curve. stay with us through the day on bloomberg radio, bloomberg television. patrick mchenry, the pup -- the republican of carolina, later. this is bloomberg. ♪

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guy: from new york city, good morning. the countdown to the open starts right now. 4/10 of 1% on the s&p. let's get to it. stocks flying high once again. >> there really is a shift going on in financial markets. >> the response is actually increasing. >> from here, i think we've got markets focused back on the fundamentals. >> we know there is a lot of cash in the system. >> incrementally positive news on the vaccine. >> that is what is linked to keeping the markets out. >> the fundamentals do matter. >> the optimism is now a key driver of what is happening. guy: let's bring in t