tv Bloomberg Daybreak Europe Bloomberg February 22, 2021 1:00am-2:00am EST
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no expensive machines, no expensive memberships. get off the floor with aerotrainer. go to aerotrainer.com to get yours now. manus: good morning from bloomberg's middle east headquarters in dubai. i'm manus cranny. annmarie hordern in london hq. it is "daybreak: europe." bonds salafi and copper jumps -- bonds selloff and copper jumps. an israeli study shows the pfizer vaccine reduces the spread of covid-19.
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it comes as boris johnson his roadmap for reopening. brent crude resumes gains as the market assesses the fallout from texas is big freeze. we hear from a ceo on the picture of renewables. monday morning, you have a feast of very intelligent people to listen to. annmarie hordern, good morning. krugman, summers, stiglitz, they are all there. the question, the risk from the stimulus, will we cause a runway -- a runaway repricing, rabid repricing in the bond market and larry summers says such a fire would be lit under this economy that you will be talking rate hikes in 2022. good morning, annmarie hordern. annmarie: good morning, manus and summers is saying the fed is
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not ready for a new error -- the new wrap on them. we will hear from jay powell on this debate. i like what stiglitz had to say. he's saying it is about automatic stabilizers. $1.9 trillion going into the economy, the economy starts to re-boost itself, then it won't end up being 1.9 trillion, so he's not worried at all, neither is krugman. manus: no, and krugman makes the point spend, spend, spend. let's take a listen. paul: in fact, spending on pandemic recovery generously is not a competing -- is not competing with a longer run program. it is a precondition for that wrong the run investor program. we need to get people back to work and through this with minimum damage and only then would we be in a position to go about doing the things larry and i agree we ought to be doing,
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looking past this year. manus: bottom, real rates are rising, the breakevens -- the breakevens didn't ratchet higher yesterday. breakevens are rising, real rates are rising, are we just going to retest 1.60 and see a continental drift? reflationistas are driving the market. across the equity market, futures are softer, 10 year yield, 1.37%. you think that is a big deal? go to wb on your terminal, australia up 17 basis points at the moment. copper is on a tear, up nearly 3%, blowing past $9,000 a ton. we haven't seen this in nine years. it is unprecedented, a question of the super cycle. just to tell you, i put the
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pound in, 1.40. we know it is not so good where you sit, but matt hancock, we will talk about vaccines, one out of three adults in the united kingdom is vaccinated. pound sterling, pound euro has to do with the vaccine story and how much more could sterling go? eric nelson at wells fargo said valley will fade in a few weeks, potentially good for you. manus: we will get into that phrase in just a moment. the chief economic set from alphabet joins us. the debate is this, how far will this bond repricing go? is it really inflation? is it a real momentous change? good morning. >> good morning. we could easily see 2% 10 year treasury yields.
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that will not be troublesome for the equity market, but we could see 3% 10 year yields by the middle of the year, but 2% is probably doable before easter. annmarie: you are saying 3% by the middle of 2021? martin: correct, and the reason is simple. you mentioned the nobel laureate's, and this goes back to core policy. we have no brakes on policy. we have the jay powell and janet yellen show, and monetary is on full acceleration, fiscal is on super acceleration, so what gives? that is where the bond market comes into play and this goes back historically, to take away the punch bowl from bill martin in 1955, rubin in 1993, where
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clinton was forced to hike taxes and bernanke would taper in may 2013. there's a lot of historical precedent here, but we have no break on policy. we have super monetary, super fiscal, and this is the big change that has happened in the last four weeks and nominal gdp in america this year has been upgraded to 7%. the budget deficit has been upgraded to 12%. this is a super economy and the discipline, which is rates going higher. manus: so let's extrapolate forward. new you think the fed could even allow rates to get to 3%? would that cause a huge break on this mel top in assets that we have -- melt up in assets that we have? with the fed allow rates to get to 3%? martin: the fed has no choice
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because he mentioned already, you know basically in europe and in japan, we have negative policy rates. we are close to 0% in the u.k., close to 0% in america. we don't have negative policy rates in america. what we had for the last one to two years was negative interest rates in america. negative long-term real rate. we've come from minus one 20% and we had a -10 term premium and that was almost minus one and that has gone positive to plus 20 the first time in two years. long-term interest rate structure in america is the release valve. we have no release valve on monetary. jay powell, unlike 1955 or 2013, is refusing to countenance any type, and yellen at the start of
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the new administration has basically decided to do 10, 12, 13% deficit so the deficit doesn't start with the american west view plan on march 14. it will continue this year with a larger american recovery plan. annmarie: one half of that show will speak this week and it is jay powell. what are you expecting him to say on the heels of summers saying we are not ready for the new era of inflation? martin: you remember at the last fed meeting, we said the fed actually should give some type of hawkish signal. actually, they did not. they did the direct opposite. powell was super dovish, and it isn't the main issue, where is the break? there is no break here? clearly we want a solid economic recovery, after the crash we had 12 months ago in markets. clearly, we wanted that, but
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there has got to be some discipline here. there is no monetary discipline. there is no fiscal discipline. the discipline can only come from one place. that is the bond market and we have a repricing on term premiums, real rates, and the entire structure of the long end of the bond market in america. manus: i have a vision in mind of you bringing into the school room and saying naughty, naughty, no discipline. the bond market, juggernaut, melting away for trillion dollars from the negative bond pile we have out there. could this be the whip that brings discipline? a more substantive global bond rout? martin: your school analogy, you must be reading history books but it is actually spot on because if you go back to the longer serving chair of the fed,
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william martin, for bill martin in the 1950's, he had already hikes rates and talked about taking away the punch bowl when the party was about to get started. that really was a shot across the politicians at the time, and bob rubin in 1993 did the same thing in meetings with bill clinton. bill clinton wanted an aggressive health care policy and was forced to actually aggressively tighten interest rates and a strong dollar policy was implement it. we don't have a strong dollar policy. normally, we would see a very solid dollar performance when america outperforms as it has done. we have relatively weak currency. last year, it was down 10% so bringing discipline to the party here can only be done through e 10 year interest rate. annmarie: discipline to the party. martin malone, chief economic advisor of alphabook.
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let's get your first word news with laura wright. laura: china is calling on the biden administration to scrap tariffs, putting the onus on washington to prepare -- repair their relationship. china's foreign minister said the two sides should reopen some channels of dialogue that was cut off under the trump administration. >> more than ever, china and united states are capable of getting big beneficial things done. under the current circumstances, interact actively and build up goodwill. we hope the united states will adjust its policies as soon as possible. laura: an explosive engine failure has shower debris over a suburb. u.s. regulators are ordering emergency inspections of the boeing 777 engine made by raytheon and japan is holding flights. the plane in question landed safely in denver and nobody was injured by the falling debris.
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global news, 24 hours a day on air and on bloomberg quicktake powered by 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. manus: thank you. coming up on the show, we turn our attention to europe with boris johnson readying the roadmap for reopening and there are reports italy could ramp up its vaccination program. this is bloomberg. ♪
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annmarie: very good news, but let's look at the bloomberg global vaccine tracker. israel leads the way with 79 doses per 100 people, the u.k. 27, the united states 19. all of this positive, but we have a tragic number that the united states is about to reach 500,000 covid-19 deaths. we should note the paces of fatalities has slowed dramatically. dr. fauci: it is stunning when you look at the numbers, almost unbelievable but it is true. this is a devastating pandemic and it is historic. people will be talking about this decades and decades from now. annmarie: today, boris johnson will announce that all schools in england will reopen from march 8. a lot of people are excited about this and he will also outline how the lockdown will lift over the coming months so it looks like there is going to be a light at the end of the tunnel. manus: indeed, you've got
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children in 10 of germany's 16 states set to return to school and a day cares for the first time in weeks. that's today and the nation's contagion rate rose to its highest level in more than a week on sunday as italy announces mario draghi's administration is about to accelerate the italian covid-19 vaccination program. we are cranking on the gas here, aren't we? annmarie: exactly. martin malone is the chief economic advisor of alphe book. the pound, going through 1.40. this has been the vaccine trade when you look at sterling. do you think this has legs to continue higher? martin: probably up to 1.45. the u.k. is in such poor economic shape, can't really
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countenance a strong currency so it is quite counterproductive and the next direction of the currency will come on the fiscal direction from the chancellor richard sumac where he might and they will hike corporate taxes. it would curtail investment by 2% so that is not something we want to see. we want them to delay any tightening. you can paint that relative to what is going on in america on fiscal, but the main issue on the vaccine is the information. we are getting a real-time study on vaccines with pfizer out of israel and vaccines preventing infections and transmission is very good news. manus: martin, you say the run-up in sterling and vaccine narrative, it is displayed in cable. do you expect the same
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acceleration to come through in europe, and how will that manifest itself in markets? martin: well, an annmarie mentioned with draghi, he wants to deploy the u.k. strategy on vaccines by using the military, by using pharmacies, by going to a 24/7 rollout. clearly, europe is behind, but we are not too troubled by that. the u.s. and the u.k. and israel, clearly way ahead and there are different levels of immunity. we have senior-level immunity above 65, which would be good news for the present death rate. we actually have natural immunity and in america, they forecast that around one third of the population is already immune. in europe, there probably is a high level of natural immunity, but vaccine immunity will
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accelerate very sharply. annmarie: we talked a lot about the u.s. going big with their fiscal stimulus program, $1.9 trillion. is the european fiscal program sufficient? martin: uh, i go back to our bullish take on italy for over two years. that is, pre-pandemic, we look at the italian fiscal policy, we made it clear we were positive italy and that was 2% deficits were no good and last year, italy's deficit was 11% and draghi's deficit in 2021 will be eight, and next year will be five. that is 25, 20 6% over three years -- 26% over three years. the previous 20 years was less than three, so we just have a total seachange on fiscal policy in europe. europe actually needs more fiscal policy.
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that's basically been called for by the ecb and also will be what draghi thinks now is going to be a key issue in europe, not just what merkel and macron think. draghi's fiscal stance is very dovish. manus: interesting tilt, isn't it? mario draghi, by all accounts, becoming more important than macron and merkel, isn't he? martin: absolutely, and clearly the european union will have to deal with elections in france and germany, so there is political risk in those countries. you can see draghi's popularity, not just across the italian population, but over 85% of 900 deputies have backed the unity plan and backdrop repot -- draghi's plans. that will be maintained for at
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least 2021 and 2022 and i don't buy the argument draghi will be flipped to become the next italian president. the italian president is just not powerful enough for him. if draghi shifts from prime minister of italy, he'll probably want the job of running europe in brussels. manus: setting out the agenda for mario draghi. no job is big enough for the man. martin, thank you for being with us. the chief economic advisor. go back to tv and listen to your comprehension of what goes on at the fed. we've got one market that is not in a melt up mania mode, the csi 300, declines down 2.7%. the pboc will remain on hold, they didn't do anything with lending rates, are we on pause? that's the narrative they've given. chinese equities are extending their decline. we will dig deeper into that. could it be copper become so
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>> if you had time and unlimited administrative capacity and if there weren't the political imperative to make good on promises, he might try for something that was a little bit more targeted than that, but borrowing is cheap, money is not an object amazingly in all of this stuff, and you really want to get a lot of aid out the door fast. you have to get people through
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these six months of pandemic and we need the economy poised to make a fast come back once it can. >> ok, well as you know, you were in an interesting discussion, debate with larry summers. are we going to put money that could be taken away from things we could be putting money into and putting it in the plans this year like climate change, infrastructure spending that would create jobs and help so many people? paul: i think -- i have enormous respect for larry. i always take him seriously, but he is making a category error here. he's thinking the constraint is we have a certain amount of money and we are going to spend it on this or that, but that's not actually a problem. the u.s. government has vast borrowing capacity and the constraint on doing the things we ought to be doing is not how much money is there? can we afford it?
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the constraint is actually,, in the end it is going to be political. i'm very much for a big infrastructure invest in the future program, but that is going to be taking place not this year, maybe not even next year, but afterwards and the reasons it might not happen are going to be if people feel, well, you spent a lot of money and it didn't work and the economy didn't recover all that well, which is what happened to obama. in fact, spending on pandemic recovery now, spending generously is not a competing with a longer run investment program. in fact, it is a precondition for that longer run investment program. we need to get people back to work and we need to get people through this with minimum damage and only then will we be in a position to go about doing the things larry and i ought to be doing looking past this year. >> we know for countries like
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the u.s. and china, the ability to service that debt, to borrow is not of concern. are you concerned about productivity of debt because if you look at the chinese example, that is the very worry, the effectiveness of taking on that debt and how it is targeted. paul: there is no effective constraint on the amount of debt. with the u.s., we have just barely got positive interest rates on 30 year bonds now, real interest rates and still negative real interest rates on shorter-term and with -- given the fact the economy will grow over time, servicing the debt is just not going to be a problem so i really don't worry about it. the level of debt is not in my top 10 list of things to worry about, whereas being able to get people through this crisis with
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brent crude resumes gains as the market reassesses fallout from texas is big freeze. he will hear from the ceo of vestas on the picture for renewables. a lot to get through this monday morning, but we have to start with what is going on, potentially this recalibration in the bond market. martin malone talking about 3% this year after we heard from economists, professor stiglitz, krugman, larry summers. summers is saying the fed is not prepared, not recognizing the era we are headed into. good morning. manus: absolutely. good to be together again. when you look at what summers goes on to say, he said to the fed will be well under to raising rates in 2022. go back and listen. if you want to understand fed policy from the 1950's, even i wasn't around to talk about it. annmarie: you are the resident historian. manus: but you are right, he is
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calling 3%. we heard reflation is not inflation. we are going to spike and we are going to roll. by the way, the imf says you might get 2.5% by 2022, but there is limited inflation risk from biden's stimulus plan. annmarie: one thing i'm certainly looking out for this week is we will hear from jay powell starting tomorrow. what is he going to say given where the markets are right now, where yields are going, volatility, and on this debate, is he going to respond to summers? it will be interesting to hear what he says this week. manus: it could be the bond bulls get a few abandonment issues. unlikely. let's ways through these markets, because you need to ask about does the market reprice because of rates? .25% is not the equity market
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repricing. it is a pause for thought. 1.38, the highest level in year in bond markets. the covid, 1.6%. real rates are rising. do you fall into the summers camp? the fed will reprice next year, or do you fall into the other narrative, spend now and spend large. you haven't seen a run on copper like this since the 1980's, and that is saying something, above $9,000. cable, i can't bring myself to talk about cable. 1.40 16. i'm traumatized. annmarie: i'm sorry about that. it is good for me, not so good for you, but wells fargo is saying it is not going to last. so much has to do with vaccine narrative. manus: where above 1.4 for the first time in three years and hedge funds are long, but let's
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talk about one of the other main narratives in the market. it is the oil market and brent has resumed gains. the market is reassessing fallout from the freeze across texas. goldman sachs is predicting a tighter spike to come. juliette saly has the call. . >> goldman sachs analyst expecting a faster rebalancing of the crude market and they have upped their forecast by $10 a barrel. they are expecting $70 for brent, rising to 75 by the third quarter. analysts expect consumption will get back to pre-virus levels by late july. the reasoning behind this increase in their forecast is due to the fact they are saying supply response from opec-plus, shale producers, and iran will trail demand from the global recovery and output from major producers could be not rising prices, underpinning what they
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heard from the u.s. reporting season with producers focused on returning cash to shareholders. as my chart shows, we have seen an increase in brent crude toward the pre-violence -- pre-virus levels, 22% on the year and the time spread, signaling a little bit of a tighter market and helping unload stockpiles built up during the pandemic but we are focusing toward the opec-plus meeting. ing saying prices could see increased volatility over the next week and i've got another chart showing how much this concern is where you've got brent at the moment, flashing overbought. annmarie: juliette saly in singapore, thank you and on that opec meeting, saudi arabia and russia, differing as we head toward the march meeting. let's get your first word news this morning with laura wright. laura: prime minister boris
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johnson is set to outline his roadmap for lifting the national lockdown. he set to confirm all schools in england will reopen from march 8 and announce a loosening of social distancing with up to six people allowed to meet from the end of next month. one in three u.k. adults have had a shot with plans to offer the vaccine to all adults by the end of july. the covid-19 vaccine from pfizer and beyond tech -- biyontech appears to stop recipients from becoming infected. the survey and israel hasn't been peer-reviewed but it says the shot is 89% effective in preventing infections, the first real-world indication. around 1000 eu finance firms are expected to open their first offices in the u.k. after losing passporting rights due to brexit. roughly two thirds of the 1500 companies that have applied for regulatory permission have no
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physical presence in britain beforehand. that is according to records from the financial authority obtained by a consultancy firm. global news, 24 hours a day on air and on bloomberg quicktake powered by 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. annmarie: despite near record valuations, tech companies are not due for re-rating. this is according to 8g, the largest tech only private equity firm. their total portfolio makes it the second-biggest tech company in europe. danny berger -- dani burger spoke to managing partners this week. >> it is always in a downturn you have a dramatic move to new technologies like cloud, and that is precisely what we see. we recognize, because we've been investing in software for 20 plus years, this is likely to
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happen. we didn't know when the next downturn would come. we didn't predict a pandemic. we did know when a downturn came, the acceleration in the move to cloud would happen so we've been positioning our portfolio for the past seven plus years. dani: does it mean if you want to buy more companies that are more cloud-based, are those opportunities harder to find now because that is the hot area in tech? >> there is always demand for those kind of companies and you can identify them. the tricky part of the game is the expertise you need to find them at the right stage in their lifecycle. the banking community is allowing companies to look at a cloud company. the risk is people overpay for the old -- old tech and are not valuing correctly the potential of the long-term, five to 15
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year potential of strong inventive cloud products. dani: i was talking with bridge point who said tech, being the only game in town, valuations have gone high and once economies open up, we will see a repricing of the tech sector. do you agree? do you see that as being the case? matthew: i don't fundamentally think so. i've had similar conversations. they asked the same question. the reality is, i think this cycle has shown the resilience of underlying tech, the value of tech, the pace of adoption has accelerated through this process and if anything, grows volatility. you've seen the evidence of the value. are we going to see a fundamental re-rating? i doubt it. people are desperate for growth and this is when you get growth in many categories. dani: if you work with a lot of different firms. this is something we've covered
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a lot in terms of cyber security threats. is this becoming more of an issue? what are you hearing from companies right now? >> it was a big issue three years ago. it is an even bigger issue. there is an arms race going on, with bad actors doing more to be more sophisticated. employees, three or five years ago to be more sophisticated in their attacks technically and targeting institutions where they think there is value to the data they get. we are seeing doubling year on year of incidents. dani: do you think the tech world as a whole is prepared for this new world where cyberattacks, ransomware is more common? matthew: i would say not. we see companies every year where we are investing into companies for the first time and we do a cyber evaluation. we see often large companies
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with very poor processes that are very vulnerable. we dropped a deal last year for this reason, because of the cyberattack. it is a recurring theme, so you can deal with it. you can prepare yourself. you know ransomware is on the agenda, you've got to have expertise because you are very exposed. the easiest way to lose value is to have a meaningful cyberattack or data breach. that leaves you insignificant hot water. manus: she's been busy, dani burger speaking with hg, and joins us now. very well done. this whole series you put together, a host of really good insights. how do hg's views on tech valuations compared to the typical private equity firm? dani: they differed a lot from
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the typical private equity firm that we do speak to in this series. part of it has to do with the fact that tech through the pandemic has been the only game in town so when you look at things like deal flow, when it is recovered, it has been very specifically in tech. tech deals, december, they reached the highest in at least two years and tech valuations hold up through the entire drama while other valuations for things like consumer companies drop. because of that, we have talked to private equity funds who say once the world gets back to normal, once there are other types of companies that can do well in this environment, the valuations of tech won't hold up. we hear this argument for public companies, as well. but hg is different. they employ a lot of experts and what they are known for is buying a company knowing exactly how it works and organically growing at. i brought this to with their attention and he told me we are
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fine with paying more and we do pay more because we know we can get the growth a lot of other companies can't. annmarie: dani burger, thank you. the fallout from texas, we will speak to the vestas ceo on renewable energy systems in the state amid the once in a century power failure. that conversation is next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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manus: it is "daybreak: europe." the bond market, a quick check before we get to our next interview, repricing literally. you see dramatic moves that train your eye to the global bond narrative. aussie bonds up 11 basis points, the biggest one-day move since pre-pandemic last year. kiwi up 13 basis points. how far are we from curve control? there might have been a melt up
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in equity assets last year. we are seeing a melt moment in the bond market and it could get a little bit heated through the rest of the day. u.s. treasuries make it to 1.39. annmarie: u.s. treasuries, on the move through this hour. martin malone saying 3% middle of this year. we will talk about renewable energy in the aftermath of the power crisis in texas. freezing conditions showed many wind farms in the region are not built to withstand low temperatures. the state's governor was among those seeking to pin the blame on renewable energy. we will discuss that with the ceo of vestas, the world's biggest wind turbine maker, henrik andersen. thank you for joining us. what measures need to be taken to ensure the reliability of wind turbines and wind power in extreme weather conditions? henrik: i think first of all,
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when we look at texas, it goes to what families have gone through in almost a century experience in texas. it is maybe a little frightening to be out early and try to pinpoint what are the underlying, because there will be huge resources going in to analyze what are some of the root causes behind this and how has the grid operator handled this process? this is where we can and will demonstrate what has worked well from an energy source throughout this crisis. manus: good morning to you. we know a thing or two about
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renewables in this part of the world, but the experience the world has just seen last week, does that set us back in the renewables story? does that set us back in terms of the progress the world was potentially making towards a more dynamic energy renewables electrification mix? henrik: not at all, and i just want to make a few facts to the listeners and to you, because when you look at this, today, out of the total energy generation in the world, only 1% comes from wind across the world. out of the electricity generation in the world today, 7% comes from wind. when you don't go and drill into texas as such, they were planning to have between 1.8 gigawatts and seven gigawatts working from renewable energy throughout this online, which is peak winter season and we have
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had four gigawatts working throughout the period of time. may i just highlight and also point here to, we were founded out of the nordics come out of denmark. we used to have turbines working all year long and on the severe conditions. we used to test wind turbines down to -35 degrees. i would say here, it is a matter of let's not try to pinpoint renewable. in that energy transition, there will be -- we will be playing an important role in that transition. annmarie: and texas will probably start to winterize some of their turbines. could storage have been better utilized in texas?
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henrik: we will have to look at what would be better but the truth of it is, when you have risks that are suddenly loaded or overloaded under severe circumstances, you will have part of the grids either close down or continue to running. in this case, when you have a grid, the grid is able to either stop or accept energy storage and also energy source comes in, and that is complicated. if there is one thing here we experienced in a number of countries around the world is that the upgrade and investment into the grids and the modeling into the grid, that has happened right in the east and the asian pacific and australia and they are similarly going through it in europe. some of the things we have to say, it is not just about the
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source of energy. it is also how to distribute and use that source out to the user, to the families in their homes. the whole grid capacity and ability to run in sometimes sub grids is becoming increasingly an important part of running grids and energy control. manus: can we talk a little bit about your business. you bought a minority stake in the wind turbine made out of copper and wood, a fascinating departure. what does that do for your carbon footprint? is this an adjunct or is this a strategic vision? "bloomberg markets: the european open -- henrik: i think if we again look at it, we will work with sustainability in everything we do and of course, we are blessed
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with when we brought the turbine up, it is basically carbon neutral after the performance of its life. if he lives 30 years, it will be carbon negative for 29.5 years after that. we were displacing 180 6 million tons of carbon from the turbines we have started around the world, equaling 125 million vehicles. we look at it, one of the things we know we can displace more carbon is also how we manufacture the turbine. we will have to drive four months to zero and part of that is we look at various innovations and innovation of where we could use wooden materials in the tower, we believe is very exciting, but it is, as we also say, something which will then be put into
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innovation as part of our business venture. then, we believe it is important to support and invest in some of these new innovators that come into the industry. annmarie: vestas ceo henrik andersen. we will round up this week's to no event. including jay powell's speech tomorrow. don't miss it. this is bloomberg. ♪
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prices, how much further can these bond markets rise in terms of yields? pre-pandemic, treasuries were 1.6% in the united states. annmarie: if you look at the australian 10 year, 17 basis points. the five-year is on the screen, but absolutely, we are going through the levels we saw last year and we have a number of events coming up this week. tomorrow, jay powell delivers his semiannual report to congress. watch out, ripple -- results from hsbc. manus: we will have the cfo joining me. tomorrow, we will have that conversation. it is all about the stimulus and the -- as well as stiglitz, summers, and krugman, all having their view on that. i leave you with a live shot of london. cable is above 1.40, it is a beautiful day in a beautiful
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anna: bloomberg market, "the european open." the markets say it is all about the bond selloff. tempering optimism about positive vaccine news. the cash trade is less than an hour away. here are the top headlines. yields rise, stocks edge lower. surging the most in nine years in hopes of recovery. stopping the sprd.
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