tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg February 23, 2021 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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plus, systemic vulnerabilities and the software supply chain, revealing testimony on the solar wind tax. we will have highlights with top execs from microsoft and crowd strike. and the struggle is realreal. the covid-19 pandemic continues to challenge consignments marketplace and realreal, and it reported a $50 million net loss in the first quarter. we will speak about the plans to move. first, square and intuit reporting and there is post market action with the ceo of gamestop resigning. >> you are seeing a lot of action in the post-market after a fairly quiet trading day. kicking it off with square. big earnings story coming after the close. the highlight was the bitcoin
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investment, 3318 bitcoins bought for $170 million. you are seeing a little bit of a decline. we will look at hr in a minute. intuit, beating estimates, and investors not hopping into the shares after the close. seeing a pullback in the shares. gamestop news, the cfo resigning, pressuring those shares over 4% of a decline there, and taking a broad step back, i want to look at what happened with the major averages. the s&p 500 marginally in the green. few tech being able to lift it higher, but the broad tech story is a negative one. the nasdaq 100 and the semis down for a second straight session. we will look at the latest spac
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confirming their news with lucid motors. 472% gain before today's 38% drop, with traders selling the news. we have to end with bitcoin. that is the major risk sentiment indicator. recently after the close reported that investment in bitcoin are already seeing that not work in their favor. emily: right. really interesting, thank you. i want to get to tesla. share wiping out there year to date -- shares wiping out there year to date again and the decline after comments by elon musk that the price of bitcoin seemed tight. tesla invested 1.5 billion dollars in the cryptocurrency. i want to bring in our guest.
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what is your take? dan: it continues to be this double-edged sword with bitcoin. they are diving into the deep and with bitcoin, and it is a $750 million profit but it adds more volatility to the name and that is what you are seeing take place in the last 48 hours. emily: it was not just elon musk who said the price seems high. i spoke to bill gates who cautioned against investments in bitcoin at all. take a listen. bill: elon has tons of money and he is sophisticated, so i do not worry that his bitcoin will randomly go up and down. people get bought into the manias who may not have as much money to spare, so i am not bullish on bitcoin and my general thought would be, if you
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have less money than elon, you should probably watch out. emily: not mincing words there, dan. do you think that bitcoin investment was potentially tesla getting ahead of itself? dan: i think it was a smart, strategic move. this is going to have a ripple effect. 3% to 5% of public companies over the next 18 months will have some sort of investment in bitcoin. there needs to be regulatory goalposts put in, but it is not going away. i know with musk and tesla, they will continue to see forrest for the trees and even though this will add volatility, this was the right, strategic move.
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transactionally speaking, even though there is some white knuckles at points today. emily: right, it was not just gave -- elon, but janet yellen making car -- cautionary remarks, but i wonder if that will change the type of investor who wants to get with a tesla . dan: that is a great point. investors the i talk to, they are cautionary in terms of bitcoin so they do not love that investment from tesla. the majority of investors are fine with it. we are talking a billion and a half, but if they start to go up to $3 billion, $4 billion, or $5 billion, it becomes a pronounced risk, but on paper, they made more from that bitcoin investment today than selling all of the ev cars
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last year. emily: that is an amazing statistic. are there any other fundamental reasons we are seeing the decline in tesla? you have pointed out some of the other things, stopping orders of making vehicles, how big of a contributor is that? dan: in the ev markets, you are seeing a lot more competitors coming in. you go across the globe, and many automakers are going, and right now, tesla will have a target on their back. i think in the near term, model y standard, that is not selling it, even though i view it as a small piece, the price cuts come out of hibernation mode, and they are going to come out right now thinking that there is potentially blood in the water, but i still view this as a act
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that will exceed even just the units. in the golden age of ev on the back of the title wave, that is why it is still my thought of a trillion dollar market cap. emily: bill gates pointed out that there is an electric car competitor for almost every letter of the alphabet. that was not so five years ago. do you see these competitors emerging as truly formidable forces -- could they take a signet again share of the electric car market away from tesla? dan: that is starting to go into the risk profile. you look at gm, there is going to be a transformation in gm. they will be a very successful ev player in terms of everything that is done over there. when you start to look at some of the niche players, especially
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with china and others, that will be more and more. we look today, it is still tesla's world in the ev market. over the coming years, $5 trillion, up for grabs. it is a pot of gold that many will go after, but that is why they continue to be a leader in the pack, and i view this as a risk off trade. emily: we have also been following apples annual meeting, tim cook talking about m&a and the pandemic. apple to increase the annual dividend. what do you make of it? dan: the big focus today is about streaming. everyone knows they have been massively successful in the super cycle playing out, and more products have the potential coming out this year.
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but streaming continues to be the area when you talk about m&a, do they eventually go aggressive on m&a? do they acquire the studios at mgm? that is a bit of a focus because right now they are in a massive position heading to the $3 trillion market cap, and now do they go aggressive on m&a? emily: what is your outlook on whether or not they do that? apple has never made a massive acquisition. a few billion dollars, that is as high as we have been. dan: beats is the largest deal that they have done, and it is not in the dna of cupertino, but in this arms race or streaming with netflix, disney, and other players, for apple to be legitimate, they will have to buy a studio. otherwise, they will be a tertiary player, and the window of opportunity continues to be there. that is something, when you talk
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about that and then next leg will be ev, we believe the next six to nine months, they announce an ev partnership, and it could be worth $30 per share more at the some of the parts as we go to apple in the coming years. emily: the big question, will they or won't they, they -- we are anxiously waiting to find out. dan ives, thank you. coming up on, microsoft and others after a cyber attack disclosed in september. how execs reacted in the hot seat. this is bloomberg. ♪
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♪ like supply chain attacks are happening >> believe dubbing it is doing injustice to the broader software community and giving us a false sense of security, possibly. emily: the solar winds ceo who testified that the u.s. remains vulnerable in cyberspace, this at the first public hearing before congress to address a massive cyber attack by suspected russian hackers against federal government and the private sector. i want to bring in the senior vice president and founder and executive director of the national security institute at george mason university law school. i know you are watching closely with your popcorn today, but did you hear anything surprising, any bombshells or any new information >> -- new information?
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>> no bombshells. president of companies exploiting the supply chain, but what was interesting was microsoft did make news supportive, and i think the real concern for industry is how do we grapple with the new supply chain threat which is more aggressively being utilized by a particular russian, but not exclusive russian. emily: talk to us about the microsoft development, how significant is that? jamil: it is something industry folks have been talking about. we have seen the expanse of the recertification laws in states, so what the companies don't want is 50 state laws that go after them, so they would rather have one federal standard. not a tremendously surprising development, but certainly a
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notable one. emily: there is a lot about these attacks that we still do not know. what are you still wanting to find out? jamil: we know the u.s. government is going to give clear attribution, we know it is the russians, but they will be clear about that. the real question is how widespread was this, how many different routes was this attack against the use -- the u.s. government, but it was not an attacker, it appears to be espionage. part of the challenge, we know that microsoft was involved, we know that solarwinds was involved, but it sounds like there are other players with how the russians got in and stayed in. it really highlights for us to come together to work collaboratively to stop these threats going forward. emily: it also highlights the vulnerability of the software supply chain at this moment. we heard the ceo of solarwinds
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saying, this is happening as we speak, and what was perhaps unique about this particular attack is just how patient these hackers were, and how long they waited to deploy very sophisticated tactics. jamil: you are right. this idea that they would spend months and months getting in, establishing themselves, and creating persistence. that is the scariest thing about this hack. not only did they use the supply chain in, but now that they have established a strong foothold and they are like the wolves in the hen, but they look like hens, so doing the deep network surveillance is going to be hard. that is why you need to have industries coming together and creating a defense capability that was told about last march. emily: what is your sense of how much damage was done and will we ever know? jamil: it is going to be hard to
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tell exactly the scope of damage. we know that they were deep in, we know that they saw source code for microsoft, whether they downloaded or modified it, we don't have evidence. we know that in the government, deep, sustained access to email and information. no insight of what are they got into classified networks, but it can reveal a lot about how an agency operates and what was sensitive at the time. not classified, but sensitive. one thing i worry about is the fact that they were in so deep suggests that they could take action or threaten us with action. they have not done that yet, that is where it will require a stiff response u.s. government. emily: what you congress should -- be doing now, anything they are not doing? jamil: we have to make it clear
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that we are going to push back. this is not a cyber attack, but this was espionage. but the russians need to know, if they threaten us with more disruptions, deletions, disabling, that would cross a line and they should know that we will push back hard. for right now, sanctions, closing embassies, that is the right start now. down the road, there are red lines, do not come close to them, because we will push back hard. emily: jamil jaffer, thank you so much. good to have you here. coming up, the cdc sets an emergency meeting for this weekend for authorization of johnson & johnson's covid-19 vaccine. plus, guidelines may change for those who are fully vaccinated. we will have the latest, next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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♪ emily: now to the latest in the effort to vaccinate the u.s. population against covid-19. drugmakers believe the vaccine could be available to all by this summer, if current production plans continue to ramp up. for more on that, i want to get to bloomberg's michele cortes. we are waiting for potentially new guidance from the cdc about what we should and should not do, what to do if you have been vaccinated or not. what sort of new guidelines are you expecting? michele: for people who have
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been fully vaccinated now, we are seeing strong efficacy numbers and the risk that they will be infected and transmitting the infection are low. why will -- while we certainly expect that we will wear masks and social distance, there are other rules that are going to ease up. you don't have to quarantine, you don't have to stay away from other people if you have been in contact with someone who is infected. we will be able to start having larger gatherings. we will start being able to get back into movie theaters, gyms, and larger numbers, and a lot of things that have made day-to-day life in the united states and across the world more challenging are going to start easing and that will be happening in the next few weeks. emily: here's the big question, and i know a lot of grandparents and children have these questions. can my mom who is fully
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vaccinated have dinner with our family en masse? michele: such a great question, and like everything else with this outbreak, it is one of personal choice. public health officials would say that they think that that is not a good idea because one of the highest risks is doing things like eating and drinking, so putting things into your mouth when you are in the context of other people. you are inviting a potentially higher risk scenario. that being said, vaccinations look good if you can do things like eat outside, make sure you have good until asian, and make sure you are positioned so the grandparents -- aren't in any direction with the kids. i personally believe that would be a fine choice to make, again, with every precaution. i am sure that dr. fauci and others would disagree with me. emily: what about the johnson &
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johnson shot, how soon are you expecting some sort of authorization? michele: the fda is meeting this week, on friday to review the johnson & johnson submission. the agency could act, and we saw with pfizer and moderna, they acted immediately. they are meeting on monday to review this. we are expecting that by early next week, we will have a recommendation and at this point, everyone does expect that that is going to go in a positive direction, millions of additional doses are going to be available by the end of next month, and this is a one dose shot. emily: the u.s. just surpassed
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half a million deaths. if we don't get fully vaccinated until this summer, how money more people could die between now and then -- how many more people could die between now and then? michele: great question. no one expected that we would be looking at something like this. i remember when everyone was shocked and appalled and there were 200,000 deaths, but no one thought we would get to that. the truth is the virus is still widespread in the united states. it is falling, the case numbers are coming down and the deaths and hospitalizations will follow the decline, but we are looking at tens and thousands of additional deaths, even among the peoples who are currently hospitalized and six. it is really just a heartbreaking thought for those who have gotten infected, who have gotten exposed just in the days and weeks before we would have access to the vaccine. emily: totally devastating, and
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emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." facebook will restore its news sharing capabilities in australia after the government agreed to amend legislation, forcing the company and google to pay local publishers for content. for the latest i want to bring in alexandra givens, president and ceo for the center for democracy and technology. i am curious for your take here. is this a victory for facebook? alexandra: facebook and the australian government have reached a deal. facebook will be exempted from the law if they make significant
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contributions to the australian news industry. the face-off that was happening between mark zuckerberg and rupert murdoch but it does not address any of the underlying policy issues in the australian law and that is something we need to focus on. emily: what are those policy issues? alexandra: the way the australian law was going to work was as a tax. it would require major online services to pay for linking to news content. that is confusing. links are an important way of driving traffic to news sites, but it is problematic when you think about the experience of users online. linking to information is one of the most important ways we communicate with each other and linking to authentic information is particularly important as we think about the rash of misinformation online. putting a tax on that in a way that makes information platforms have to play to link to that information is counterproductive in terms of the type of behavior it encourages from each
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platform. emily: now, to that end, news publishers might say they are linking to our content for free, and we are at their mercy. for example, if facebook tweaks an algorithm slightly, my traffic can dive. what is your response to that? alexandra: free, independent journalism is essential to our democracy. we need to think about solutions to help address the decline from that industry and make sure that journalists are compensated for the work that they do. but when you do that through and measure like a link tax, it has negative consequent is. there is a risk platforms will respond like facebook did last week, which is no longer link altogether. there are some that will link only to specific outlets they make a deal with. say, for news core at the expense of smaller, independent journalists. the last piece, which was not an issue in australia, but that comes up in other proposals like
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this, is what happens when we are talking about online platforms that do not have the deep pockets of a facebook or a google to faye -- to pay for these types of links? what happens when we are talking about wikipedia, medium, for the next service trying to connect people online? they are making it hard for them to link out to authoritative news sources. it is counterproductive for creating a healthy ecosystem online. emily: are you expecting a ripple effect here for similar issues to arise in other countries? and are facebook and google going to have to strike deals in all of them? alexandra: this is not the first time we have seen these types of proposals. they have been percolating for about a decade in europe in particular. starting in the mid to thousands. -- mid-2000's. the spanish government tried to force news aggregators to get a license before they included snippets in their search results. that ended up leading to google taking out those snippets, which
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had a significant impact on traffic to different news sites. so this has been happening for a while. in europe i think they will continue. there was a european copyright directive passed in 2019 to make it easier for publishers to enforce this right. just this week we saw prime minister trusted -- justin trudeau weigh in from canada as well, indicating they will be following suit. emily: so where do you say this leaves publishers? are they better positioned as a result of this or not? alexandra: they are being backed up by the government to negotiate hard for compensation for the traffic. so when you do see deals being brokered likely facebook one or the google deal, that is in the short-term helpful for publishers. i think the big question is which publishers and journalists are seeing the benefits. when we look at the tax, the pressure on social media services, to pay for linking out
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to sites, it is going to be far easier for there to be backroom deals for brokered licensing agreements with the publications people know best. i think that is really dangerous for the ecosystem, particularly when you think about the small media outlets that people do not know to go to independently. they rely on google save -- search results and facebook and others to help people find those sites. in these types of pay to play scenarios, it is really hard for those types of journalists and independent to thrive. emily: all right. fascinating to watch this play out. alexandra givens of the center for democracy and technology. thank you so much for sharing your perspective with us. the saudi-backed the letter carmaker have agreed to go public through a reverse merger with a michael klein spac. but that is all translating into a delay in bringing its car to market. as part of the deal, lucid unveiled productions of debut
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luxury ev's would be put on hold until an unspecified date. >> i was pushing like crazy for spring, and when we met with the churchill capital team, i took alan out in the car and he loved the car, the very first car off the production line. we had a meeting of minds with alan and all his experience with boeing, with michael klein, and myself. we got on like a house on fire, and recognized that, peter, why are you pushing like crazy for the spring? what is really important here is to get the quality right. we'll know when it is perfect, when it will truly delight the customer. so they freed me. they said, look, get the product right.
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don't look to the artificial construct of a specific date. if it rolls on into the second half of the year, we are ok with that. look at the capital. you can pull the trigger when the time is right. we trust you to get it right. we know you want to make it perfect. they are making a luxury car. and when tesla came to market less than 10 years ago, i think a lot of flak was cut then, because the electric cart was such a fun experience, people for gave the build quality issues. the market is not going to be forgiving now. this is a very different world. we have to get things right. and the impact of covid is not to be underestimated here, ed. so, you know, we're chasing down a number of suppliers from around the world. we have 250 suppliers, 3000
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parts. and that whole infrastructure operation has been affected by covid. so that's had a big impact of pushing in and out a little bit into the second half. ed: has the global semiconductor shortage had any impact of delay in production? peter: it has not for us, because we have had some very savvy purchases in our purchasing teams, who actually preempted this and had negotiated supply agreements, which have really mitigated that risk. but i recognize it's affecting some automakers, notably porsche, with their announcement recently. ed: what about a cash crunch? how pressing was the need for you to raise funds prior to this deal? you said you would need around $600 million in terms of bridge financing before the deal with churchill closes later this
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year. peter: there was no cash crunch. we have got a great primary investor in the investment fund of saudi arabia. they're in for the long term. they have got markets and they are very supportive as strategic investors. for them, this was a validation point, and validate we have, indeed. we have attracted the bluest of chip investors to validate their original investments. we did not go to the market needy at all. we went for validation. and that is exactly what we have achieved. ed: you say that you are going to spend about $10 million over the course of the next four years. that is a lot of money in a short space of time. how are you going to get those additional funds? peter: we have already brought in $4.5 billion from the churchill capital from spac and
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the pipe. we extended the pipe because it was so oversubscribed. we could have gone for more, actually, but we decided to limit it. that gives us an absolute clear runway well into 2023. and in that time, we can build out phase two of the factory. that is capital-intensive. but we are investing because we are vertically integrated. and it gets us to a situation where gravity will be very near already full production. emily: peter rawlinson there, ceo of lucid, with bloomberg's ed ludlow. coming up, the real world -- the realreal fourth-quarter results are out with new losses, but new normal could see the bounceback of the luxury consignment market. we will speak to the founder and ceo julie wainwright about her outlook for 2021. this is bloomberg. ♪ is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: the realreal online consignment marketplace for luxury goods drove shares down more than 13%, total revenue down 10%. the pandemic has quote, temporarily disrupted. but pointed to growth in gross merchandise value. with vaccines rolling out over the next few months, could the luxury consignment market get back to growth? joining us now is the realreal founder and ceo, julie wainwright. you and i have talked over the years about how customers love beautiful things, but right now they are not necessarily buying them. what are the numbers telling you? julie: well, that is not really a great way to characterize it.
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the truth is due to covid restrictions, we have had a harder time getting supply in. and our sellthrough is as vibrant as ever, but that all started changing in december. in november we had a good supply month. december, we started seeing growth in demand. and we also are seeing it in january and february. again, because we are not a manufacturer, we are reliant on getting things from peoples' homes. it has been very challenging in covid times. coupled with early on california shut down our warehouse in brisbane, which had a long-term impact because we could not process them in the state of california. having said that, that was last year. we're already seeing signs of recovery. january was great. february we are date. year to date we are up 14% in gmv and we expect to continue
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for stronger growth in the future. emily: if it is more of a supply issue then, what does a supply look like for the year at? julie: well, it started changing again last year. mostly driven by adding our neighborhood stores where people felt very comfortable dropping off. prior to covid, most of our supply came from us visiting your homes and going into your home. clearly that was not the best option, and an option many people did not want during covid times. however, people were very come to build dropping off at stores. so we started introducing neighborhood stores to complement our flagship stores, and it helped drive supply up by about 13%, and it is growing now even more. this quarter it has grown even more. we have not given out the year-to-date number but the growth is there, it is real. we have supplemented that with more vendor products, some vendor products. but still the primary growth in
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our supply is people feeling very comfortable with dropping off at stores. emily: so, in our interview, you are one of the last interviews before lockdown. we were at your store in san francisco. it was a wonderful experience, and obviously so much has changed since then. but you drive-by, i see a line out the door all the time. talk to us about how your physical stores are doing, and how you see that contributing to the growth in the future. julie: you are absolutely right. we're adhering to all covid restrictions. so we have a restricted number of people in the store. we opened a palo alto neighborhood store which only allows four to six people in at a time. having said that, the stores are really bouncing back. primarily for supply, secondarily for demand. but i was in new york over the
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weekend, and i had -- i went into our new brooklyn store, which was incredible. but i had a driver on saturday take me past our stores in soho, brooklyn, and madison, and we had lines out the door. so can you imagine once restrictions lift? it was about 28 degrees. waiting out in the cold to go into the store to either consign or buy. i cannot wait for restrictions to ease, because i think we are going to skyrocket. and we have announced by the end of june we will have 10 more total new stores open that are more neighborhood-focused, which we expect to do very well. emily: so then what is your outlook on demand? because obviously people love -- as i said, luxury, beautiful things. but if it is a luxury and people are struggling and many people have lost their jobs, how much income are people going to have to spend on something that
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they might find at the realreal? julie: well, the facts are in. we had 21% new buyers in q4 year on year. and the truth is we are still a value versus full price. when you look at it versus the value shopper, we are still attracting the value shopper. it's an amazing deal and people can resell it. so if people dubai things, they already -- people do buy things, they already know the retail value. we saw a very interesting trend in covid where people were investing in more handbags, jewelry and watches, more so than any other category. those categories were up. now, what we are now seeing, which is positive for us because it is the single largest category, apparel is back. apparel is back to growing. so i hear what you are saying. there are hard economic times. on the other hand, there is still a large population that do have jobs and they are value
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conscious and they are also environmentally conscious. so i believe the combination is going to suit us well. as restrictions ease and we are already seeing it, we expect our business to really take off. emily: you know, you have done this partnership with gucci, i know you are coming up on your 10 year anniversary. let's take it a year out from now, with the development of these new physical stores. how does the realreal look different, let's say, when year from now? -- one year from now? julie: last time we met, literally two days later we had to shut everything down for weeks. so i don't want to go too far out in the future because if you would have asked me if we would have had a pandemic and it would sideline our 40% growth we were having in q1 prior to the pandemic, i would not have believed you. but i can tell you we exited 2020 with many more options than
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we had going into 2020. and what i mean by that is neighborhood stores are not going to go away. in fact, we are sort of revitalizing retail in the neighborhoods we come into. the only other store that has this much action wherever we are is the apple store. so neighborhood stores i believe are here to stay. virtual appointments are here to stay. i could go on. at some point we are going to be international, and that point is probably, i would say, 2022 is our year of international also. so i just feel like the year gave us gifts that we would not have wanted to go through what we did in 2020, because it was a really hard year, but we have come out of it stronger with more avenues for growth. emily: all right. we will be watching. julie wainwright, founder and ceo of the realreal. thank you so much for joining us. coming up, buy the dip.
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>> we are very positive on bitcoin. very happy to see a healthy correction here. no market is straight up. everyone should know that. everyone should have some dry powder for days like these. and i have been saying that for a while. emily: kathy would there -- cat hie wood there. she also indicates she is buying the 13% dip in tesla, adding that quote, corrections are good, keeping us all humble. cathie was not alone. tuesday morning's plunge offered
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a rare discounted buying opportunity for true believers. the popular hashtag, #buythedip. i want to bring in our process it reporter, katie greifeld. katie: the buy the dip mentality was definitely front and center. this was the first time the nasdaq 100 has erased a debt of over 3.5% to end about flat. we have not seen that since february of last year when the pandemic headlines first really started to hit markets. there are several potential factors here. some technicals going on, he had jerome powell in front of congress. but what it boils down to is the buy the dip mentality has been rewarded over the past year or so get everyone from day traders to cathie wood, coming in and buying more tesla stock. that is helping shares bump a little higher after hours. they are up over 2% at this point, which is great news for
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tesla, because it has been a rough couple days, down over 10% this week alone. emily: meantime, robinhood ceo vlad tenev speaking, criticizing shortselling. it's an argument we have heard before. is it gaining any traction? katie: yes. that has been an interesting byproduct of this entire gamestop phenomenon. to recap quickly, shortselling is when a trader borrows a share of a company and sells it with the hope they will be able to buy it back at a cheaper price. what the robinhood cis criticizing is that you can short a share multiple times. that is what you saw short interest on gamestop as high as 140%, which sounds impossible but it is a dynamic that you can short one share multiple times. so he said specifically this causes a runaway train reaction. it sounds like he is describing a short squeeze.
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that is when traders who were shorting a stock are basically forced out of that position. there was definitely some of that going on with gamestop. he saw the high short interest level drop down to about 40% when i last checked. it is a debate. there are people like tenev saying this is bad for market. are argue this helps make markets more efficient. it has uncovered scandals like enron. it will be fascinating to see if any actual regulation comes out of this moment in time. emily: and quickly, gamestop closing $44 a share today. the ceo resigning. do we know why? katie: not certain why, but it was interesting to see that stock moves so much after hours after that move. i mean, there's still the fundamental backing, you have activists joining the board. so we will see as the market gets a chance to react to that once they open tomorrow how it shakes out. but definitely some very
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haidi: a very good morning. we are counting down to asia's major market open. shery: welcome to daybreak asia. our top stories, asia looks to extend optimism on wall street after reassuring fed comments on reflation and growth. jay powell signals no change in policy. bitcoin slides back from the $50,000 thresho ain
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