♪ >> the biggest stimulus for all of us is that we can get out of covid. >> i am pretty convinced the u.s. is going to see a gigantic rebound, especially in consumption. >> if things don't get worse, there's no reason for the fed to do anything. >> it's not clear whether rising rates are good or bad for the market. >> the market knows that if financial conditions start to tighten in the u.s., the fed can do a lot more. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: from new york city, for our audience worldwide, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ," live on bloomberg tv and radio. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. -- alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. tom keene will be back on monday. your yield on the u.s. 10 year up 10 basis points to 1.61%.

lisa: when do higher yields not necessarily mean lower equity valuations? now that we have jabs in the arms promised by may and checks in the mail this weekend, perhaps we are getting closer to the end. jonathan: cyclical outperformance has been the story over the last couple of months. now you have to look at what you own. the number four weighted stock on the russell is gamestop. [laughter] a lot of companies on this particular index, and number four gets you 0.15% of the overall benchmark. but that at the story right now. what do you own? lisa: tom keene took the day off , i believe, to decide how much to give to gamestop. again, is this ownership possibly a positive when you get the stimulus checks going to be pull, and you've got -- going to people, and you've got 40% of people surveyed by a recent wall street bank saying they plan to spend that to buy stocks? i mean, which stocks are they buying if they are doing the

robinhood trades? jonathan: amy wu silverman came on this program and talked about that in the last couple of weeks. i think monday is going to be fascinating. good morning to you all. the s&p 500 pulling back from all-time highs. the s&p right now down by 19 points, up by 0.5%. you will find the y in the bond market. you've seen this movie about 50 times. yields up to 1.61%. in the fx market, euro-dollar, $1.1920. we are down on the currency pair by 0.6%. lisa: that is perhaps not that surprising based on some of the ecb moves yesterday, although i do think it is interesting we are not seeing any of the strengthen the bond market carry over to today after the ecb decision to accelerate some of their bond purchases. the key will be inflation. how much will that test the hand

of central bankers gekko -- a central bankers? the key here is there are price pressures, prices are going up for producers, but not that much. this seems contained within the fed's parameters. 10:00 a.m., the house judiciary committee is holding a hearing with microsoft. the interesting thing here is about big tech having control over media. will media be given the ability to collectively negotiate with the likes of google and facebook in terms of how their information is to tribute it -- is distributed? it really goes to this antitrust push on the margins. i am curious to see how much it will actually take hold. i will be watching this very closely, the u.s. rig count. the reason why i find this so interesting is because you saw an absolute plunge in the number of rigs that were in operation, the lowest going back to either leave the 1970's.

the question is, is the shale boom over? how quickly can this ramp up as we see prices go up? how flexible is this production, given the fact that the most rich wells have already been drilled? scarlet: i remember when -- jonathan: i remember when everyone used to play rig count guesses on a friday afternoon. lisa: do you want to start that again? jonathan: i really don't want to do that, lisa, thank you. [laughter] those of you looking at for euro, yields are a little higher over in italy by three basis points following the ecb's call. several officials seemingly what you to know that lisa, they are not increasing stimulus. they are just increasing the pace of purchases. they've tied themselves in knots over. the last. 24 hours they want to preserve -- in knots over the last 24

hours. they want to preserve favorable financial conditions. lisa: very confusing. you were talking about madame lagarde and how she didn't really add much clarity to the issue, but they really have a tough message to give. short term, they need to provide more accommodation. this really is the key. the acceleration of purchases, what are they going to be buying? italian bonds? jonathan: maybe. just compare and contrast the forecast to what you'll get from the fed next week. lisa: night and day. jonathan: barely revised higher, the growth forecast. looking for something in and around 4%. look at what we are getting as a guide from wall street right now on the sell side. we've got 6%, 7% gdp growth this year, and the fed, i imagine couple will have a huge upward revision. lisa: they have to because that is the reality people are looking at. but the question is, how do they then talk about the reaction function?

how do they take that higher gdp forecast and explain how they will change policy according to the strengths? jonathan: the outlook looks good. what do you want to own? anna han joins us now, wells fargo equity strategist. we have just ripped in cyclicals. the nasdaq is struggling. we are seeing that again this morning. when two things start to change for you? anna: the good news is, it is working. the bad news becomes that opportunity or the juice you saw as mostly been played out. for us, what we are looking forward to is maybe less of the value trade. we are starting to get interested in other parts of the market, other drivers. we think the next game in town could be earnings expectations. jonathan: where do you see the opportunity around earnings expectations as we get deeper into the year? anna: for us, it is a little bit more of that midcycle, made recovery play because the first

early cycle stuff tends to have an early surge, as you see growth prospects improve, confidence build in the economic recovery. the things that are most sensitive move first. for us, it becomes the things that come next that come with more reopening. that could be the aerospace industry and the consumer services. that has a lot to do with hotels, restaurants. you see these areas where people are going to be looking forward to spending their money, especially now that they have additional stimulus. lisa: this story makes sense, and then you see gamestop, the fourth biggest holding in the russell 2000. perhaps people go buy more games in stores, or amc, going to more theaters. how much do you buy into the mean stocks -- into the meme stocks, where the fundamentals

do not justify this price action? anna: it kind of reminds me of the keynesian beauty contest concept, where everyone is liking it, so it must be good. it is part of one big picture. as people have high savings rates, they have high disposable income, you are adding on top of that additional stimulus. some of that direct check is going to be used for bridging the gap, but another part of that is going to be used not just on experiences, go get out and buying things, but also taking more higher risk. and keep in mind, what is helpful for retail traders in the equity market is the more sophisticated the investor is, you can use leveraged products. think about the retail flow in options markets. you are able to use leveraged products and get multiples of what you put in because that could be an attractive risk-reward for a lot of retail traders. lisa: leverage, checks going into companies that are

considered zombies or even insolvent i all other accounts. how much does what happens over the next couple of months determine the pain later on when people assess the long-term prospects for the economy? anna: i think it is very important. you don't want to be putting money in zombie companies. want to avoid those things. we call them value traps. they can really hurt you later on when you are just spraying and praying. but right now it looks like so far, the financial system is pretty solid. you're not seeing too much strain when it comes to misappropriated cash to risky companies going under. right now it is looking ok, but is definitely a soft spot you need to keep an eye on. jonathan: anna han, wells fargo equity strategist. of course, it is perfectly intuitive to say you don't want to invest in a company divorced from fundamentals, but what are the fundamentals?

central bank policy as part of the fundamentals. you can be invested in a company divorced from fundamentals, and those conditions can persist for a long time. where is italy now on 10 years? 60 basis points. do we make this argument at 2%, at 1%? here we are at a fraction of that. lisa: but how much more do we have versus what is being priced in? if we have seen the bottom of yields, did people already price that into the evaluation and now have to consider other factors? i think that is the tension right now. the fundamentals start to matter more because will have already repriced assets at these yields? jonathan:jonathan: that was the argument five years ago, three years ago. lisa: so are we getting negative yields in the u.s.? jonathan: i have no idea. all i am saying is i've heard the same argument again and again. i caught up with bill egan of jp

morgan about this. he said there is bad news and good news that will be bad news, ultimately, across the fixed-income space. good news will hurt treasuries, bad news will hurt credit. the argument made, the spreads are too tight end yields are too low, i've heard that a million times. it was true three months ago, six months ago, and nine months ago. lisa: you're absolutely right. i would say on a more specific basis, there are real term consequences to some of the repricing higher to some of these bonds and some of these companies. one of them is recoveries. if a company does go bankrupt within this regime of low rates because they just don't have a viable model, the recoveries are really low. basically, people are not having protection from that type of scenario. so there are real-world consequences. jonathan: i agree. and just to be perfectly clear, i am not advocating for any side of the trade. i just think the last 12 months have been so humbling, we need to keep our minds open to a

range of issues. from new york city this morning, 1.60% on tends. your equity market off by 0.4%, and the nasdaq down by about 1.5%. that is the story this friday morning. yields breaking out, equities breaking lower again. this is bloomberg. ♪ ritika: with the first word, i'm ritika gupta. president biden marked their one-year anniversary of the start of the pandemic by giving americans a clips of hope. in a primetime speech -- a glimpse of hope. in a primetime speech, he looked forward to welcoming celebrations on the fourth of july and said all adults will be able to schedule vaccinations by may 1. americans will start receiving stimulus checks in their bank accounts this weekend, after president biden signed the 1.9

trillion dollar stimulus package into law. the of its economy has started -- the u.s. economy has started showing signs of a recovery. china blasted the biden adminstration for imposing new restrictions on suppliers to huawei technologies. aging says it shows the u.s. can't be -- beijing says it shows the u.s. can't be trusted. the move prohibited -- with 5g devices. it was a blowout you're in the market, and -- blowout year in the market, and deutsche bank and its traders are cashing in. the bonus pool was up 29% compared with smaller gains, or even cuts, at other major european banks. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ sec. yellen: i don't believe

we've overshot the mark. i believe it is the right size. jonathan: it is a huge effort, and it is a price tag of $1.9 trillion. janet yellen, the u.s. treasury secretary. alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. almost said it. tom keene is back on monday. lisa: he's here in spirit. i'm sure we will be talking about adidas. jonathan: i don't mean to interrupt, yields to almost 1.60% on the 10 year. lisa: well done. where is the lira? [laughter] jonathan: the lira is weaker big time. euro-dollar off by 0.5 percent. on the s&p 500, down by 14 points, 0.3%. the republican leader in the house, kevin mccarthy, with this to say on twitter yesterday evening.

"president biden's plan is to rely on the work already done by operation warp speed. that's why only 9% of his relief bill went to defeating the virus. what america needs now is to fully reopen our economy and our classrooms." lisa: the question is, how do they try to own this? it is a very good point, especially given the fact that there seems to be support for bidens plans in the population. the stimulus plan has popular support, but also the view of how the u.s. is reopening, also positive. republicans want to say it's not him, it was the groundwork laid before him. jonathan: kevin cirilli joining us now, bloomberg's chief washington correspondent. the republicans clearly trying to reopen their economies in several states, including texas, and republican members of congress trying to own the reopening as well. is that what you see? kevin: yes. president biden yesterday says maybe we can all have a barbecue on the fourth of july. governor abbott is saying come

down and have brisket with me right now. i think the three big takeaways from last night's speech, first and foremost, from an economic standpoint, he put a position -- he positioned the stimulus package as the crowning achievement of his first 100 days of office. he will crisscross the country to talk about what he feels is the success of the bill. secondly, the governors in the republican party are out front and grabbing the microphone of the policy for the republican party, and they are going to say, why wait? let's start now. enough of this let's have patience thing. finally, the political capital that the biden adminstration expended, especially in dealing with senator joe manchin from west virginia, and not listening to congresswoman elana omar -- congers woman elana omar -- congresswoman ilhan omar, aoc, they will be emboldened moving forward on infrastructure,

immigration, a whole host of other issues. jonathan: this tactic didn't work for president trump because we didn't have a vaccine. do using it works this time around? kevin: the vaccine makes everything different. president trump tried to take reddit for it -- take credit for it, president biden is trying to take credit for it. let's be clear, the science made the vaccine. dare i say that we might not be talking about reopening for the midterm elections? maybe we will have other issues. lisa: the landscape has changed and there are some real policy issues the president has to put in place, including for example the infrastructure of getting the vaccine into people's arms, also getting other companies to manufacture j&j's vaccine and work with other pharmaceutical companies. how well is this administration

doing when it comes to laying the groundwork to accelerate the inoculation of the population? kevin: i think, as a reporter, when you look at the data that more americans have been vaccinated now then there have been covid cases, when you look at 70 million american senior citizens have been vaccinated, when you look at the rollout of the vaccine and mention the private sector role with merck and johnson & johnson working together, president biden pointed to them directly last night in his oval office address , and what a difference a year makes. it was literally one year ago to the date yesterday when former president trump, remember this, was speaking, tom hanks got covid, the nba shut down, march madness was canceled. all of that was happening. so i think the message, no matter what party you are in, that you got from last night was that this is a definite new beginning of sorts in the phase

we are entering as a country. secretary of state tony blinken is headed to alaska next week. he will be meeting with his beijing counterpart. republicans, democrats, there is bipartisan consensus on some type of legislative vehicle to address china, supply chains, manufacturing jobs. look for senator chris coons, democrat from bidens delaware, to be one of the driving forces to get a bipartisan vehicle bill in the next couple of months as it relates to china. lisa: we will dig into that more next week, and it really is an important issue that has gained steam. before i let you go, the $1.9 trillion bill a mothers been an increasing number of reports parsing out how quickly that money will be distributed. it seems like only about $1 trillion will be put into the market, or the economy, over the next nine months or so. and you talk about the schedule of this in terms of how it will

boost the economy and how long that rollout will happen? kevin: checks could hit folks' bank accounts as early as this weekend. secondly, in terms of the funds, as it goes even broader, to your point, a significant portion in the first nine months, but actually, more money is going to hit the economy in year two, three, four. and look for republicans to start to criticize debt to gdp ratio, especially as infrastructure talks come up. jonathan: kevin cirilli, thank you so much. host of "sound on" on bloomberg radio, weekdays at 5:00 p.m. eastern. here's the definition of a freudian slip, as lisa says that money hits the market, and then says it hits the economy.

some people think that might be what happens with some of these checks. lisa: i think it is important to be not too cavalier. a lot of these checks go to families that absolutely need them to pay basic maintenance. still, incredibly elevated, their are people out there hurting. still, if you don't have anywhere to go, why not just go to your reddit account? jonathan: i think one argument around this is really interesting. away from the inflation debate, the big issue is not inflation risk. it is financial stability risk. we get this big boom, and maybe what overcomes the recovery is not inflation, it is financial stability. lisa: what anna han was just saying, not only do people go to the robinhood account to bicycle stocks, -- to buy single stocks, they can lever it up. jonathan: alongside lisa

abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. continue down to the opening bell with bond yields higher. s&p 500 futures down 0.4%. the nasdaq recovering a little bit. from new york, this is bloomberg. ♪

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♪ jonathan: from new york city for our audience worldwide, this is "bloomberg surveillance," live on bloomberg tv and radio. remember when we talked about that wonderful movie "groundhog day?" ♪ you can probably record this segment and play it out over the next several weeks. up on the nasdaq on the week, down on the session. the s&p 500 pulling back by 0.5%. the russell outperforming. in the bond market, twos, tens, 30's, you can record this. i promise, it works every time. lisa: how are you? are you all right? jonathan: i'm just a little bit bored. [laughter] lisa: no kidding. jonathan: the curve steeper.

yields creep higher. here's what i am interested in. tens, bunds, treasury spreads right now about 1.90%. the ecb trying to preserve favorable financial conditions with an outlook that does not look pretty compared to what we are about to see in america, and the treasury market, a lift there. why? because it is a statement of confidence, and the words of chairman powell. a lift for a whole host of reasons, justified. so how wide in the spread get? either the bund market is going to be an anchor, the fed is going to drive everything, or you get real divergence like we saw back in 2018 when we saw 2.80%. i would be asking the same again and again. how much more oxygen is up here? that trade kept going wider.

right now, 1.9 1%. lisa and i will talk about that more later this morning. let's get some movers. he is romaine. romaine: at least there is some optimism out there on the vaccine front. late last night, we got word about novavax and its latest trial. the u.k. trial on its covid-19 vaccine, 96.4% efficacy. on the south african variant, a little bit less, but above what the trial was seeking, so that is some positive news. definitely positive for investors, who had some concerns about novavax getting its vaccine further out the gate. keep old beauty -- keep an eye on ulta beauty. the ceo stepping down. she's been there for eight years, but she's relatively young, and really credited for taking this company and the stock to new heights. ulta was not a whole lot before

she came on board. she really turned it into a juggernaut. to see her tap down and not really have a true succession plan in place is really concerning here. they did also report earnings. those comp sales are still meager, and the forecast not living up to expectations. that is why you are seeing the shares down. tesla could get caught up in the tech selloff. there was also a relatively minor fire in a facility, but part of the facility that was under construction, so unclear if it has any real aerial impact on its output. a couple of the names to keep an the premarket, coupon had a pretty interesting day yesterday. shares actually closed below where it opened, but still well above the actual ipo price, so good for a 41% pop up. roblox, the trendline has been down ever since its debut. you are not really seeing the aggressiveness in the bids.

it has been flirting with that $70 level. it's opening day view -- opening debut was at $45, $55. finally,'s mark -- finally, poshmark, they are disappointing on the debut. they say they are still having problems with the postal service. jonathan: wasn't that nice? just want to let it breathe. [laughter] romaine: you can interrupt me if you want. jonathan: romaine bostick will be back for "the close" this afternoon on bloomberg television. thank you. yields up by six basis points to about 1.59%, on 30's up six. lisa: you said that "groundhog

day," people will debate whether it is really a good movie. i did 20 say, i think it is a good movie. but there's actually a message within the movie and a question about whether this sort of groundhog day of markets will lead to a larger message of whether we get some sort of synchronized growth with the u.s. and europe, or whether we get to some sort of widening gap . we are sorted and that intermediate zone where it feels like the same thing again and again. jonathan: i said before that i like bill murray, so i should we emphasize that i just hate that movie. [laughter] lisa: why? i thought it was really good. we jonathan: jonathan: don't have to talk about it now -- jonathan: we don't have to talk about it now. let's bring in dan alpert, westwood capital managing partner. how much higher do we have for yields? dan: i think you have to start with the reason we have high yields his concerns about ongoing future inflation that we don't see yet. a lot of the question i have

going forward is whether these continue to climb in the absence of demonstrable inflation. everybody expects when all of this money starts to flow out and households start to spend that we are going to see dramatic price increases, but i point out to everybody that in last month's inflation data, we saw twos-tens decline in the price of goods. sure, we saw food accelerate and fuel accelerate, but at the end of the day, the real question is how much global access is there out there that is going to be relatively price elastic and continue to maintain inflation at low levels? that is a big question. right now we are unquestionably experiencing, i don't know if you want to call it a panic, over inflation. jonathan: so why do you think the big move has been real yields and not inflation expectations? daniel: well, the issue at the

end of the day is where is this money going to flow. let me give you a couple of interesting points. if you look at the reduction in household credit card debt, credit card debt fell by $108 billion. that means that the savings that everybody is talking about being out there is really not flowing. people pay down their household debt. so you have to develop a lot of confidence to bring that money back into the economy. i am not sure that's where we are headed. right now, the equity market is trading against treasuries, and clearly if you increase risk for yields, you're going to pull money out of that market. it is going to happen every time. but going forward, the real question for both the bonds and the treasury markets is are you

going to see the whites of inflation's eyes. lisa: so how do you see the inflation tantrum? daniel: i happen to think there is opportunity in bonds. i am not telling you to go out and necessarily starts throwing all of your money into bonds, but my belief going forward is that we are not going to see a level of inflation that the bond market is actually anticipating. lisa: the other issue really facing markets is that as yields rise, people are selling tech shares. don pop and i have been talking all morning about how this is a huge question, whether this correlation makes any sense. do using it breaks down as earnings comes out, or indicates that big tech was bid up to high , and the equity market has to stall out for a while here? daniel: of course, everything can be affected by earnings

results, and we will see what happens going forward here. but tech stocks and things like $69 million for a jpeg, at the end of the day, are expressions of hope in the future because a lot of these companies are not making a lot of money right now. look at the spac revolution that happened over the course of late last year. people are looking for alternatives given the fact that yields on bonds, risk-free yields are very low. so as you improve the attractiveness of risk-free yields, you are naturally going to see rotation out of those things that were effectively plays. jonathan: dan, great to see you. looking at a headline that just crossed the bloomberg from l brands, boosting their first quarter view. we add a little bit more weight to it in the premarket. that is about a better outlook

that helps out even some beaten up retailers that have suffered over the last several years. lisa: i've seen a number of reports that yoga pants are basically going away. people are buying clothes with real waistbands, and that is a sign that reopening is going to happen. really, you are seeing prepare for a new reality. jonathan: your dashboard is very different to mine. that is not on my dashboard. [laughter] lisa: well, there have been a number of fashion stories out, not that i am particularly -- jonathan: usually you are a little more selective of what goes on your dashboard so that it reinforces whatever view you have on the market already. [laughter] lisa: let's talk about dividends. i think this is an interesting idea, the idea of how much dividends can pose a competitive advantage even as yields rise. people talk about the comparison, the dividend yields come down as treasury yields go up.

for me, i think that is a huge question that will be delivered over the year in terms of an answer when it comes to earnings. jonathan: the 10 year yield up by five basis points, the 30 year up by six. let's give you a feel for what things look like this morning. we are down 16 on the s&p 500, off by 0.4%. we are down 183 on the nasdaq, still down hard. the bond markets are the epicenter of all of this. yields are up, the curve is steeper. right now, we've got a really strong correlation with the direction of treasury prices and the direction of the nasdaq. at some point that has to recalibrate and breakdown. it is just this morning, that is not the case. lisa: there's also a question of how big some of these companies can get. there are calls for $3 trillion for apple valuation on the apple

car. there are all of these secular trends we need to see play out that could potentially change the equation. jonathan: coming up on the program, rick bright will join us, rockefeller foundation senior vice president. much more to come. a better vaccine rollout, an increase in vaccinations, and the hope that we can just get back to business and get back to normal quickly. heard on bloomberg radio, seen on bloomberg tv, this is "bloomberg surveillance." ♪ ritika: president biden offered americans a glimpse of hope that life would begin to return to normal this summer. in his first primetime speech since the inauguration, the president directed states to make all u.s. adults eligible for vaccinations by may 1. he also said his administration would beat the goal of 100 million shots in his first 100 days in office. the european union drug regulator is still backing the

astrazeneca vaccine. denmark, italy, and norway going to other countries in temporarily suspending the use of some or all of their astra shots while investigations of possible blood clots are going on. the european medicines agency says there is no indication the astra vaccine caused the clots. russia hopes to vaccinate almost one in 10 people on the planet this year. it is ramping up overseas output of its sputnik vaccine, and the state run russian invest direct fund says the big producers of the shot will be india, china, and south korea. new york governor andrew cuomo now faces an impeachment inquiry led by lawmakers from his own democratic party. there were new allegations of sexual harassment yesterday. still, there is a split amongst democrats and the legislature. some want to start to the impeachment process regardless of whether cuomo steps down. another faction says they should wait for the results of the

attorney general investigation. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

pres. biden: here's the truth.

the only way to get our lives back, to get our economy back on track, is to beat the virus. this is one of the most complex operations we have ever undertaken as a nation in a long time. that is why i am using every power i have as president of the united states to put us on a war footing to get the job done. jonathan: president biden there on the future of getting the job done in this country on the vaccine front after delivering a $1.9 trillion relief bill. from new york city this morning, good morning. alongside lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. tom keene will be back on monday. i have heard from him. he seems to think the podiums that we stand at remind him of the front of house at restaurant, and says he wants a table and smoking -- a table in smoking. i reminded him that they no longer have those tables. good luck to him.

i hope he's back on monday. we are down 14 on the s&p 500. you know the story, you are all familiar with it. equities down. that correlation has been in play. lisa: at what point does it break down, and to the benefit of growth or to the detraction of treasuries? if yields start going down and tech goes down, do we see yields go up and text go up because of the growth prospects improving? jonathan: that is the market story. the outlook it's better because we are envisioning a world without a pandemic. we need to talk about the pandemic we are still in. we can do that with rick bright, rockefeller foundation senior vice president. great to have you on the program. i want to start with how you are working with the current administration, and the difference you are experiencing from working with the previous administration. what are you learning so far, and what are the additional things you've been able to achieve? rick: thanks for having me.

it really is a stark difference between this administration and the last administration. it is no secret that i had my frustrations with the slow rollout of an overall response to the pandemic, and this continued to increase my frustrations as we missed the ball on getting testing across our country, getting vaccines made and vaccine rollout. what we see now with the biden adminstration is a complete 180 turnaround. a lot of communication with the state and local levels from the federal government. a lot of collaboration, transparency. you are starting to see that pay off in dividends with the rollout of the vaccine. we have more than double the vaccination rate now that we had on january 20. we have more people getting treated. we have more testing being done. the passage of this american rescue plan is a true commitment to make sure we can get through the pandemic. jonathan: we struggle with

testing in the united kingdom, but seem to do a much better job with sequencing and understanding variants much quicker than other countries have done. in the united states, can we do a better job there? in your experience, should we be doing that right now? rick: we absolutely have to do a better job. that is the big blind spot we have with this pandemic in the united states and around the world. we haven't been targeting the sequencing to the right populations. what we are finding is these variants are now emerging, and if you backtrack, we realize they were in the united states for two or four months. they were widespread before we even know they are upon us. we know the threat of these variants. we know they can transmit more readily. we know they can and they'd -- they can invade some of the vaccine community. we have to get in front of them. the united states hasn't been doing a good job. the cdc did announce recently they would invest more in sequencing for the united states

, and really importantly, the rockefeller foundation has been working hand-in-hand with the u.s. government to, number one, come up with new testing strategies to reopen our schools area number two, that testing leads to identification of more cases. and just a couple of weeks ago, the rockefeller foundation hosted a conference with the government and private and public sector to identify the challenges we have in the united states to improve our sequencing , and not just the sequencing itself, but how we analyze it, communicate it, and tie it to the downstream so what type of question. every mutation isn't impactful, but we do need to know the ones that are that so -- the ones that are so we can get in front of them. lisa: this goes to the question of how international the vaccination effort has to be. the united states is doing really well, much better than

europe and most of the developing world. how much do you think the u.s. needs to do in order to get vaccines out to some of the less wealthy parts of the world, in order to prevent some of these variants from being established, from mutating in the first place and getting footholds? rick: it sounds like you have been working on pandemic prevention for quite a while. lisa: about a year, actually. [laughter] rick: that is a critical point, and the news gets lost in the enthusiasm for increasing vaccination rates in a wealthy country, and a country that has vaccine production within the borders. we can vaccinate everyone in the united states, but we are still extremely vulnerable to this virus until we vaccinate a sufficient level of people around the world. the virus likes to mutate and people mostly who haven't been vaccinated. that is who it infects more readily. if the virus mutates and some parts of the world are not

covered vaccine, and that circulates back to the united states and has changed in some way, we could see reinfection. it is a real crisis. this pandemic will not end anywhere in the world until we end it everywhere in the world, and that is a critical part of the global picture for vaccinations. jonathan: before we let you go, i want to finish on something really sensitive and quite important. i think one thing that has been lost increasingly as trust, trust in institutions and officials as well. i understand you worked with president biden in the initial covid task force, and as we know, you worked with the trump government, the trump administration. when you quit, you said that some of the decisions being made "were dangerous, reckless, and causing lives to be lost." i think one thing we seem to struggle with right now, when they hear a policymaker speak, even the president currently, is it driven by politics or driven by science?

when he says july 4 we can get together again, is that just about sending a nice message to the public, or is that driven by science? rick: what i see in the difference between president biden and president trump is their ability and willingness to listen to the science. when president biden says he can meet a goal, you can bet he's vetted it with the scientists. you can bet that dr. fauci and others have weighed in on that goal. when he sets a goal, i do think sometimes it is an ambitious goal, but we should be ambitious in stopping this pandemic, so i believe when he sets it out, we can achieve it, but we are going to have to work really hard to get there. it is going to take every one of us. it can't be just a policymaker or government to achieve that goal. each of us has a role. we have to wear our mask, social distance, avoid crowds. everything that has been bringing down that curve, we need to keep doing it to take that all the way to the baseline while we accelerate our

vaccination rates. that is how we will achieve that goal of july 4 we all work together. jonathan: we would love to work with you some more in the weeks and months ahead. rick bright there of the rockefeller foundation. heard on bloomberg radio, seen on bloomberg tv, this is "bloomberg surveillance." ♪

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