sanitizers american consumers snapped up last year to ward off coronavirus infections contain high levels of a chemical known to cause cancer. an online pharmacy that tests products for quality and consistency found some contain high levels of benzene. the world health organization says that contains asbestos. among the most it contaminated were products from art naturals, sensational soaps and candles, the cream shop, and a baby yoda themed bottle. the biden administration won't demand its allies make a choice between the united states and china. speaking at nato headquarters in brussels, secretary of state blinken said the u.s. will continue to rely on innovation, not ultimatums. the speech was part of a visit where the nato, european union, and belgian leaders where they are using to reverse the trump error approach to demand -- era

approach to demand companies immediately move spending from china to the u.s. turkey's president is coming under criticism for holding his parties conference amid a packed stadium. he spoke for nearly two hours as thousands filled the stands of the 10,000 plus capacity complex in ankara despite the government's social distancing rules. wearing masks in public spaces is mandatory in turkey, but videos show many people without masks. in israel, a deeply divided country has failed to resolve a political impasse in its fourth election in two years. prime minister benjamin netanyahu, nor his opponent have a clear path toward forming a government. if neither is able to form a parliamentary majority, there could be another election. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and at bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries.

i'm mark crumpton. this is bloomberg. >> it is 1:00 p.m. in new york, 6:00 p.m. in berlin and 1:00 a.m. in hong kong. welcome to bloomberg markets. here are the top stories we are following around the world. fed chair jay powell and u.s. treasury secretary janet yellen just wrapped up their testimony to the senate banking committee. we dig into their comments surrounding inflation, jobs, and support for the recovery. plus, you will hear from the intel ceo on his plan to spend billions on reviving manufacturing in the u.s. wall street analysts are wary of that strategy. we will talk to one of the foremost experts on

infrastructure, the former world bank economist joins us to talk about president biden's multitrillion dollar economic plan centered around building and boosting infrastructure. let's take a quick shot of the markets. i put the dow and the nasdaq on here. jon ferro would not be happy with me. i let the s&p off. it is just not moving as much as the other two. the old economy is up 0.8%. the nasdaq 100 is down 0.8%. a real divergence in the market illustrated there. you can see the 10 year not doing much. crude up 6%. making up yesterday's drop and then some as the tanker stuck in the suez continues to hold up oil shipments. joining us for reaction to the fed chair and treasury secretary's testimony in front

of the senate is diane swonk and michael mckee. diane, i will start with you. what did you get new from the two today? >> i think the clear issue is on nuance. what we heard from the fed chair in particular is how slow he expects participation in the labor force to come back. how that will hold down unemployment rate will not fall as rapidly they expect as the economy ramps up. that sort of good news on a booming economy, a much stronger economy is consistent in their view with a slow decline in the unemployment rate because it will take a while to pull all of these workers in from the sidelines. i think it is important to put his comments into the context of other members of the fed and that is how much they are looking at the prime age employment population ratio. they are looking at differences

across race and gender, and that prime age employment to population ratio. we have seen a lot of people fall out of the labor force. he wants to bring them back in. there is a lot of concern within the fed about how rapid the recovery in employment will be even as the economy ramps up. matt: we are just getting headlines across from the five-year auction. we have been watching these auctions a lot more closely since the near disaster we saw in seven years last month. what are you seeing here? michael: tune in tomorrow for another seven-years. this was a five-year is going up today and it looks like a reasonably good auction. the bid to cover ratio at 2.36%. more people are getting in another section. indirect bidders were at 58.1%.

that tells you there is participation from overseas. one of the issues is it looks like japanese investors did not participate. their fiscal year closes at the end of march and there was a feeling they were repatriating rather than investing overseas. this looks like we have managed to pull out a decent auction here. $61 billion of five-year notes go at 85 basis points. all in all, a fairly good auction. matt: diane, yesterday we heard from jay powell that they through the kitchen sink at the treasuries market. last year, there was a question about liquidity in this gigantic $21 trillion market just not being there when investors need it. do you have any concerns? diane: about liquidity at the moment, no. we are in a good position. but that can change overnight.

as mike mentioned, there was already some question about the seven-year auction earlier this month. i think one of the issues the fed really has to have a hard time with is they have two issues -- they are willing to look through a flare and inflation based on technicalities. prices decelerated to year ago. prices are going to go up. they did not want to raise rates on that and stop a booming economy from coming back. the larger issue is what about a more systemic flare in inflation because we have supply chain bottlenecks? it is much easier to cut capacity, to shut the lights out in a hotel, than it is to ramp it up. one of the things we are seeing is that there is very little hiring going on in anticipation of a boom this summer even though most people expect a boom. we will look through that as

well. we are more worried about getting an inclusive recovery out there. that is something that is a paradigm shift for the bond markets. it is not clear how much they can do that, how precise they can be, these are pretty blunt tools. for the federal reserve to get a reflation, that may not be good for the bond market and that is where you get things tricky. a doubling today on the 10 year, that is low historically, but that is a big change in terms of what it cost on that debt. i think the fed has to be mindful how they try going forward. matt: of course, the fed doesn't really have to answer to anyone except for price stability and employment. meanwhile, janet yellen has a more difficult job. she has a more nuanced role to

play in these testimonies, doesn't she? michael: she has moved from the fed over to treasury across town. she has moved from the neutral seat to the political seat. republicans had a lot of questions for her today. there were some really interesting exchanges. the one that is going to get the attention on the news is the exchange she had with senator john kennedy of louisiana, who criticized the administration for supporting an increase in fdr allocations at the imf that could be used by poor countries to pay for their pandemic response. because money is fungible, republicans are concerned that money will go to russia to pay for oil, it will go to china to pay back loans for the belt and road initiative, all kinds of foreign policy results the united states does not want. janet yellen defended that idea and he started talking over her. she said, i don't know where you are getting our numbers from, these are wrong, and they did agree to talk off-camera, so we

will agree -- take a look at what happens with that. it was the most vehement exchange i have ever seen janet yellen have with anybody. the other big issues on the deficit. she was asked if there was a limit to how much the u.s. can borrow and she said, yes, but we are not there yet because interest rates are so low. she said that right now it looks like the u.s. can continue to expand and needs to expand what it is doing and it won't really be a problem of crowding out investment. the old idea that if the government spends too much it crowds out private investment. she said sometimes private investment is not so good. go back to the tech bubble of the 1990's. it was not clear that private industry did any better than the government in allocating resources. finally, she was asked about taxes. she said that we did not see a

big increase in investment from the corporate tax cuts under the trump administration. companies did not follow through, so they could stand to have their taxes increased. she said it should be done as part of a global treaty to set a global minimum tax, so countries don't go country shopping for the lowest tax rate. but there were a couple of economic soda long-held beliefs -- sort of long-held beliefs that she attacked and i want to us diane about the idea that you can continue to spend money and that you won't necessarily crowd out the private sector because the private sector does not always invest correctly and that we did not see a lot of investment by companies from the tax cuts and they could stand to pay some more. diane: well, we did not lose a lot of investment, we did not get a lot of investment out of the tax cuts, that is true. both yellen and powell have a history of being deficit hawks and so do i and all of us have

shifted our views to be much more nuanced. spending the last few days at the new policy conference, one of the last thing that came out is that it does not matter how much you share -- spend based on a share of gdp. the old rules of gravity in terms of the deficit don't apply at this moment in time. i think what is also interesting is that matters what you spend on. beverly came through in our meetings and that is something being echoed in powell's talks about how the money was spent early on and the need for the money early on. please where he crossed the line into fiscal policy before yellen came on the scene and her response. if you had told me we would have these kind of deficits, i would not have believed it, but this is where we are and it does matter what you spend it on.

i think catherine man said we don't want to spend it on ice cream and bonbons because then you get a sugar high and you crash. but it does matter what you spend it on. a more nuanced debate is really hard for people to get off of on your ideologies. this is not her first time dealing with senators pushing back on inflation. they were expecting inflation back when she was fed chair and they were angry with her for not raising interest rates, which is the last thing she did when she was fed chair. matt: diane, think you so much for joining us. diane swonk there. michael mckee, thanks for joining us. to talk a little bit about what is going on with the fed, the treasury, and washington. coming up, intel's ambitious bid to regain its manufacturing lead and build a couple new foundries. we will hear from the ceo next on the company's decision to spend $20 billion.

this is bloomberg. ♪

matt: this is bloomberg. intel ceo pat gelsinger has unveiled plans for a manufacturing investment design that could cost $20 billion. a couple of new foundries will come out of that. emily chang spoke a few moments ago with the ceo. pat: because i'm committed to the best products in every category we participate in, the best cost structure, and the most resilient supply chain. we see the ability to leverage the industry, but also become a major supplier of foundry to the

industry. this is a winning formula and the world is demanding more semi conductors than ever before. we were getting more digital and then covid happened and it accelerated, so we need to step into this in a big way. i think our strategy is uniquely positioned to be able to execute on. >> investors love to hear you say intel have fixed all its problems. we are talking about production deadlines that were missed over years. what makes you so sure that you have diagnosed and solved the manufacturing problems? pat: we are moving to a yearly cadence of process innovations following that. we are on track to not only fix the issue, but be at parity and parity plus and ultimately we believe sustained leadership into the future. the path we are on looked at the data quite extensively over the last months or so and came to the conclusion the team got it figured out. we are back. as you see more broadly with our

new strategy, as i've declared, intel is back. >> indeed. you suggested companies like apple and qualcomm could be your customers. why would they be your customers if they are your competitors? why should a fierce rival also work with you? pat: as you well know and i think you have even written on the subject about coopition. -- coop-etition. there are very few companies that can step into advanced semiconductor technology. something we have only used for our internal needs and scale before, but we are saying we will open our doors wide for the industry. with that in mind, customers are looking and saying, i only have tsmc, samsung, and intel, and

only one of those is on western, u.s., european soil? i need a more balanced supply chain. i want to have at least two suppliers of my advanced technology sources and intel is saying we are going to be that. there might be some skepticism because we have somewhat halfheartedly tried some of this in the past and we are saying we are boldly going down this path. we will have our best technologies, our unique 3d packaging technologies, and i'm going to make all of my intellectual property available for these customers, so we are really going at it with the best intel has to offer and the world needs more semi conductors. the world needs a more balanced supply chain. we are one of the few companies that can step into do that. >> what are the financial and locations of the move? you are raising your capital spend by $6 billion. when does this start to pay off? >> it is a capital-intensive cycle.

it takes a couple of years to build fabs. you invest before you are running at scale. that said, we are seeing extraordinary demand signals from the industry for today's products. i get to flexibly build capacity that meets my products as well as foundry needs. we will run a foundry network that has some optimized for our products, some optimized for foundry, and some flex fabs because we need to be at scale across the business. we do think it takes a couple of years to build this out as designs take time to be committed to a new process and then tests and ramping and manufacturing, but we are underway. we already have some existing foundry customers that we will start ramping up more rapidly, so the business will get underway. we estimated the overall foundry market and we will earnestly pursue a meaningful portion of that. matt: that was the intel ceo pat

gelsinger with bloomberg's emily chang on i think one of the most interesting stories of the day. especially considering we are in this chip shortage and you have supply chain issues that executives are trying to fix. you can watch the full interview with emily chang and the ceo of intel on bloomberg technology tonight. still ahead, president biden's big bet on infrastructure. the former ceo of morgan stanley infrastructure joins us next to discuss the multitrillion dollar package. this is bloomberg. ♪

matt: the biden administration is considering as much as $3 trillion worth of economic measures in infrastructure spending. sadek wahba joins us now, founder and chairman of i squared capital, and he used to

be at the world bank. let me first ask you what you think is most important here. what kind of spending do we absolutely need? sadek: great to be with you. it is a great question. we need to spend a couple of trillion, $2.5 trillion, to maintain our existing infrastructure, just to keep it where we are. where we are is not great. so we have to spend another couple of trillion dollars to upgrade it, so we have better roads, safer water, safer bridges, better airports to serve the u.s. matt: what you are saying is we really need $4 trillion to $5 trillion worth of spending in this bill? sadek: yes. over the long run, you need to make that investment in a systematic way. the biggest challenge is how do you fund all of that? taxes, which have been proposed

by the biden administration is one way to do it, but there must be other ways to do it. i can think of three ways. one of which is encourage domestic capital, in particular domestic pension funds, who are keen to invest in infrastructure. these are long-run assets. that makes sense for them to do that. we should create infrastructure ira accounts the same way we did 529 savings for college. we should do the same thing. you have 50 million ira holders. if everyone put $500, you would have $500 billion. then you create an infrastructure bank that would be a public institution run as a private institution that effectively can lend and invest in infrastructure in states or municipalities. matt: what do you think in terms of optimism this will get done right? sadek: you always have to be

optimistic. i think there is great momentum. the biden administration at build back better is doing exactly the right thing. hopefully, it will pass through congress, it will be supported by both parties. as long as we are able to find mechanisms that ensure that we can make these investments in infrastructure in a sustainable fashion. we need to make these investments in infrastructure green. they need to be helping the climate. and that i think is an important element and it is going to cost money, but if we do it over several years, i think that could be huge. matt: we are running against the clock, but i hope i can get you back very soon to talk more about this. sadek wahba is the founder of i squared capital, formerly at the world bank. this is bloomberg. ♪

want to save hundreds on your wireless bill? with xfinity mobile, you can. how about saving hundreds on the new samsung galaxy s21 ultra 5g? you can do that too. all on the most reliable network? sure thing!

and with fast, nationwide 5g included - at no extra cost? we've got you covered. so join the carrier rated #1 in customer satisfaction... ...and learn how much you can save at xfinitymobile.com/mysavings. mark: i'm mark crumpton. the european union is tightening

rules for exporting coronavirus vaccine. the bloc will demand that countries that receive doses also allow shots to be sent back. it will also consider a nation's vaccination rate and pandemic situation deciding whether to greenlight shipments. the eu is trying to turn around it sluggish and oculus and campaign as governments battle -- inoculations campaign as governments battle arise in the virus. in germany, chancellor angela merkel said she made a mistake in backing a lockdown over easter and ask forgiveness from germany citizens. england is seeing a record number of new coronavirus cases. the pandemics third wave is pushing the government toward tougher restrictions with a flood of cases sweeping across eastern europe, poland has already closed schools, shopping malls, and cinemas after

reopening them in february. data released today shows infections in the last 24 hours reached almost 30,000, beating the previous peaks seen in early november. the erosion of a long dormant vault -- eruption of a long dormant volcano in iceland has drawn visitors eager to see the lava flows. many have tracked there since it flared to life friday night after earthquakes were reported in the area in the past three weeks. it was the first volcanic eruption there in nearly 800 years. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and at bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm mark crumpton. this is bloomberg.

>> i'm amanda lang. welcome to bloomberg markets. matt: i'm matt miller. we welcome our bloomberg audiences. here are the top stories we are following for you from around the world. the suez canal stays blocked. we will discuss the efforts to free a stuck ship in one of the world's most important waterways as hundreds of vessels pileup. plus, a bloomberg analysis shows that china is well behind its two-year target set in its u.s. trade deal. we will discuss with a former u.s. trade representative ron kirk. we will talk about the new normal for offices with the founder and ceo of industrious, one of the largest workplace solutions companies in the world. amanda? amanda: we do have markets with

a turn to favoring the cyclicals today. energy is leading the way higher. more on that coming up. it may be anomalous with the price of crude today. industrials and financials moving strongly higher. we still do have a bit of supportive action on the yields front. the story remains the same and you can see the weak spots are tech, communications, the big spots of the s&p that are weakest. it is crude that is in focus. back above 15 for new york. we are watching west texas climb back up again, seeing more than 5% move on the day. the question is whether that is rational based on the bottleneck. for what it is worth, the suez canal is 12% of global trade passing through and we are looking at data from last year. some 19,000 ships pass through that very narrow passage and that is in a year whenably

you might have seen fewer ships than in terms of peak years. it is an important bottleneck to have and you can see the effects on the commodity price. matt: actually, a very interesting conversation i had earlier today. he covers oil for us, he runs her oil coverage at bloomberg, our chief energy correspondent, he said he does not think the suez canal issue is driving all of the price action in oil. he said a lot of it is probably a bounce back from the selloff we have seen over the past few sessions. it is hard to imagine as you look at 12% of the world's trade going through this canal, it does not have a huge knock on effect. i was also speaking with greg jarrett who told me these boats are not driven by the captain alone through the canal. like in the panama canal, there is a tug that pulls it through.

both the tug captain and the captain of the vessel itself are responsible for what goes on and i would not like to be in either of their seats right now. mighty embarrassing when you are the ship captain bar -- at the ship captain bar later on and everybody is laughing at you that you got the boat stuck. just super embarrassing. amanda: next time you are having a bad day at work, think of those boats and what they are going through today. matt: absolutely. we wish him or her the best. coming up, the price of keeping a pledge. president biden promised to be tough in china during his campaign, but now china is fighting back. we will speak to ron kirk on those tensions next. this is bloomberg. ♪

matt: this is bloomberg markets. i'm matt miller with amanda lang . it is time for the bloomberg business flash. a look at some of the biggest business stories we are following this hour. gamestop is hoping to bounce back from disappointing earnings in the fourth quarter. the videogame retailer wants to make good on a comeback plan that has helped turn it into the year's hottest stock. i think really it was the short interest that turned it into the hottest stock, but gamestop has appointed a trio of executives with tech experience that will be a big part of their plan to make the company from a brick-and-mortar retailer into an e-commerce tower of some sort. tesla is going all in on bitcoin. it's stunned the market last month with a $1.5 billion investment in the world's

largest cryptocurrency. the ceo elon musk says you can buy one of his electric cars with coin directly. he also says any bitcoin pay to tesla will not be converted back to a traditional fiat currency. most of the world's biggest automakers are suspending operations due to a persistent shortage of semi conductors. the problem was made worse over the weekend by a fire at a key chipmaking plant in japan. ford, toyota, volkswagen, and honda are among those affected. the chips are used to monitor and manage everything from engine performance to entertainment systems. modern cars simply cannot run without them. and that is your business flash update. a bloomberg analysis of official chinese data is showing that the country is well behind one of the two-year target set in its trade deal with the u.s.

having purchased only about a third of the goods it said it would buy so far. this chart shows dramatically total purchases of u.s. agriculture manufactured and energy goods were around 120 billion dollars in the 14 months since the deal was signed in january 2020, but that is well short of the target of about $380 billion for 2020 22021, amanda. amanda: intensification of diplomatic spurs over coordinated global sanctions, china imposing sanctions, reacting quite angrily. many ambassadors briefly recalled, all of this setting the tone for what may not be the greatest table setting ron kirk is with us now.

i did want to start with what kind of state you think the relationship is in. the u.s. did not get what it has bargained for with china. is there any hope of a better trade relationship based on what is going on now? ron: i think we are obviously in a much more sober period of our relationship with china. and not entirely the fault of the mistakes of the previous administration, but the simple reality that under president xi, china is pursuing a much more inward nationalist policy favoring state owned products and locally produced products, but i'm still optimistic that notwithstanding the theatrics

and the rhetoric's in the opening statement last week, meetings seems to settle down into the hard negotiating and discourse around some of the outstanding issues we have to resolve. i think it is a little bit early to throw in the towel and say we are headed for another trade, but i do think we would be foolish to not recognize the reality and the difficulties of the challenge that we now have. matt: mr. ambassador, who holds the hammer? who really has the power to swing these negotiations? ron: well, you know, both sides can inflict pain on the other one, but this is a relationship as difficult as it has been in which there has been a great upside for both parties.

it is why china, as you referenced in your opening, one of our largest most important trading partners, perhaps our most important agriculture partner, and given our dependence on so much of the raw materials that we need, even if we were to produce, pursue a policy of making more of our goods and services here, in an reality it is a very codependent relationship. one of the lessons we learn from the previous administration, the tariffs imposed as much hurt on u.s. producers and ranchers and farmers as it did on china. i don't know that i can say one side has more of a hammer than the other. to the degree that the united states begins to act in concert with our allies, as we did with the quad last week in addressing

the human rights abuses, i think that does add more weight to our argument. amanda: it is interesting when you talk about the potential for a trade cold war, trade purists would argue that all barriers are bad and therefore unilaterally lowering barriers makes the most sense. the barriers hurt american producers as much as they might help in other places. is there some path forward for the u.s. where it does not engage in tit-for-tat tariff raising, which was the style of the left administration -- last administration? i say that as a canadian, whose country also suffered from those tit-for-tat tariffs. ron: where i stand on that, i'm generally not a fan of arbitrary manner in which the previous administration imposed these

tariffs, but i do think they give the biden administration quite a bit of leverage. this is a very strong team with very deep experience in negotiating with china, from secretary of state blinken to now new u.s. trade representative ambassador katherine tai. i think they will be very shrewd and how they use the potential relaxation or removal of those tariffs to get more progress on those matters that are most critical to our long-term infrastructure -- interests, particularly as it relates to the protection of intellectual property rights, digital transactions, protection of our core trade sequence. i do think we will see more of a return to a focus on those critical issues. matt: when you see the supply

chain issues we have had over the last year, do you think we are going to resolve those by bringing supply chains back in country? i thought the intel story was really interesting today because they want to build foundries in the u.s. ron: i do think long term obviously that could be very desirous, but in the interim, those are investments that require billions of dollars and are at best maybe on an expedited timeline 3-5 years away. howard go be on the chip sector into so many other ways -- ours go be on the chip sector into so many other ways. maybe one area of cooperation is realizing one of the quicker ways to restore the health of the supply chain is to get

control of this pandemic and, two, that is an area where the u.s. and china i think a both equally hurt by all of the ships that are just sitting waiting off the various sports in o -- ports in our country to onboard those goods. i see that frankly is one area of potential cooperation that would be advantageous to the u.s. and china. amanda: really quickly, was it a mistake for this coordinated move against china on human rights when it comes to the uighurs? ron: absolutely not. the one thing we have learned from our past experience is that you have a much better opportunity to engage with china and allow them to reach a solution, but i do think it is

important to understand the position of your adversary. it is very important to china. when you can do that in the context of a multilateral engagement, it is the important thing to do. but also from the standpoint of the united states, one of the reasons we have the respect and authority that we do around the world is our adherence to certain principles on which we won't deal and one relates to respect of human rights, the rights of women, the rights of young workers not to be abused, so i think this was absolutely the right step to take and the right way to do it. amanda: it is a pleasure to have you with us, sir. appreciate your time. ron kirk, former u.s. trade representative, senior counsel at gibson dunn. as wall street and others ponder the return to work, what might

that look like? the founder and ceo of industrious is up next. ♪

amanda: this is bloomberg markets. i'm amanda lange with matt miller. businesses everywhere are starting to think about a post pandemic life and how to reopen and how to bring employees back to work when they want to come. there are a lot of moving parts. we are still seeing wall street grappling with overworked employees. 100 hour work weeks, something that they need to address. trying to get people not overworked just because they are at home. matt: yes, absolutely. we are seeing things like zoom calls pushed away from friday's. to be honest, friday is my favorite day for zoom calls. goldman sachs responding to the

deck we saw put together by young analysts and jefferson financial pledging to reward its youngest workers with pellet on bikes or apple ipads, just a ton of cool stuff. they want the kids to come in. they want them to do work, but they want to make them comfortable as well. young talent is something you don't want to waste. let's talk about this more with jamie hodari, the founder and ceo of industrious, one of the largest workplace solutions companies in the world. we are glad to get you on. talk to me first about why wall street is reacting the way it is. they want people to come in, but they are very careful to do it respectably. jamie: you know, i think part of it is that the survey data both within companies and the national survey data is consistent. about 80% of people want to get back to the office at least a few days a week, but i think companies -- i feel hopeful

about the fact that companies seem to be doing a good job of saying, in what ways do you want to be returning to work? what are your concerns? i think the post vaccine workplace strategies are less coercive and a bit more responsive to employee needs than the pre-pandemic workplace strategies. for me, that almost is for sure a very good sign. amanda: so, one of the things that many are still grappling with is what that post pandemic workplace looks like, including what kind of footprint do you need. what is your commercial real estate footprint need to look like? what are you seeing from your client base? what approaches being taken by big businesses? jamie: i think a lot of businesses are starting to coalesce around this idea that people are going to have to start returning to the office this summer. the day me and my close friends and my wife are vaccinated and we go to chinatown and we split a duck, we have a few beers, we

go for a stroll afterwards, once i'm starting to see my parents, friends, siblings -- you cannot see your colleagues for a couple of weeks, but if it is longer than five weeks, it could become a very awkward situation. the companies that before hand were saying let's wait until the end of the year i think are now starting to say, we really need a plan for return to the workplace in june, july, etc. as far as what that is going to look like, there are a few commonalities. one is distribution. you have 10%-20% of employees who have moved to new cities, the suburbs, etc. and you do not want to lose that employee who moved to denver because they do not want to move back to chicago for work. companies need to be able to serve employees across a wider variety of cities than they have historically. within cities, a lot of companies are trying to put together hub and spoke models.

there is a main office employees come to come but then there are local offices with much shorter commutes if people need to get out of the home, but don't want to commute all the way to the office everyday read -- every day. matt: how do you deal with the hot deck issue? so many banks are looking at workers that will be back three or four days a week, at the same time trying to reduce their commercial real estate expenses. not everyone is going to have her or his own desk. how does that issue get dealt with? jamie: that is one of the thorniest issues. it is clear that that is the optimal workplace construct. if workplaces are going to be 30%-30 5% fall, it is ludicrous to have space for 100 employees and have 65% of it empty all the time. it is very bad for the environment. it commercially does not make sense. it is about making workplaces with great digital experiences that assign you your desk in

real time where your things are waiting for you. more diversity of space types. you have focus rooms where you need to focus. casual conference rooms. more elegant conference rooms. they get more comfortable with the idea of moving around a work place instead of saying i'm going to sit for 10 hours a day at this desk. but it is going to require hot desk in. -- desking. and it is true that a lot of employees find it annoying. the alternative is not feasible in the long run. matt: nothing like my dad's days when people used to have offices. it is amazing how much we have changed already. then i guess how much we have ahead of us. hodari, thank you so much for joining us. pleasure talking to you about an issue so many people are giving a lot of thought to. four amanda lange, i'm matt miller. this is bloomberg. ♪

it's moving day. and while her friends are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. it only takes about a minute. wait, a minute? but what have you been doing for the last two hours?

...delegating? oh, good one. move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today. (woman) i don't want to look like this anymore. (man) what is happening to my body? (woman) why can't i lose weight? (announcer) you may be suffering from insulin resistance. measure your waist. females measuring more than 35 inches and males measuring more than 40 inches may have insulin resistance. to learn how to reverse insulin resistance and lose weight effectively, go online to golo.com. once again, that's golo.com. mark: nato secretary-general says it was a great pleasure to

speak with u.s. secretary of state antony blinken on his first visit. he said secretary blinken has a quote, "steadfast commitment to the nato alliance and was well received." the plans for allies to reach 2% of gdp spending, the plans are still on track. >> yes, we still have some work to do. we are seeing significant progress. i welcome that. mark: secretary general stoltenberg those comments in an interview with bloomberg. he also said the rise of power in china makes the nato alliance more