(woman) aerotrainer makes me want to work out. look at me. it works, 100%. (announcer) find out more at aerotrainer.com. that's aerotrainer.com. ♪ >> i think we are about four to six weeks away from this economy completely reopening and taking off. >> the vaccine alone and the covid story alone does not tell the whole story. >> we are going to billed a lot of momentum as the year goes on. there could be part of this economy, companies that are going to see demand they have not seen in decades. >> expect more bouts of extreme volatility here because that is the relief bowels -- the release valve in the marketplace. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. tom: good morning, everyone.

jonathan ferro, lisa abramowicz, and tom keene. bloomberg radio, bloomberg television. bitcoin, $59,000. move along. nothing to see here. but there is to see, i don't get the correlation, everything else in the market is correlated this morning. jonathan: that is what the bitcoin bulls want to see a little bit more of, the quest to make it digital gold. elsewhere, it is equities down, yields up. yields up five basis points on tends to about 1.76%. tom: the 10 year yield through two recent new highs. we don't see that yet in the real yield, and i see it correlated nicely in the bright red on the screen. these are the markets waiting for the president's speech and waiting for that jobs report on friday. yields are up and the rest of the world, too, in the u.k. and germany. tom: in switzerland. jonathan: it is inconsistent

with the outlook in europe, but driven by treasuries. treasuries are at the epicenter of this, and a policy decision in washington, d.c. is very much driving it, too. jonathan: i go credit -- tom: i go credit first after equities. what is so important to me is simply the calendar. april is here, and it is a boom economy. lisa: it is a boom economy as we head into a possible end of the pandemic. i want to tie bitcoin together with higher yields, the story of the day. tom: we are listening. lisa: this is important. this is what troy guy ascii -- troy gayeski was saying last week, of skybridge. it makes sense for bitcoin to rise in tandem with rising yields and expectations of more spending for the united states. tom: what i see in the bank

uproar, the margin call uproar is what we don't know. there's a lot of news flow today, but what don't we know right now? jonathan:jonathan: we still don't know what the bank's new -- what the banks knew. it leads to one tricky question. if they knew a lot, what were they doing? if they didn't know, why didn't they know. if the sec gets on the phone, no one questions what they are asking. tom: lots of different essays on this. one just posting on bloomberg. the basic theme is we have seen it before, but it does seem to be contained. jonathan: so far, but what is curious about this, and i do think it is important, this happened in a pretty normal market. no sign of stress. no abnormal events took place, and yet something broke. that's how you learn about how loaded things were to the side of the boat. that is natural of any bull market. leverage starts to pick up.

i think you've got to remember one of the biggest bubbles we blew up took place about 15 years ago, and happened in a rising interest rate environment. it is the one-sided move that leads to the additional leverage and that often leads to a fragile market, and it didn't take much to break this fund. tom: we are not back there on the 10 year yield. i'm lost on the bloomberg. jonathan: do you like how lisa has that in her head? didn't even check? [laughter] tom: it's like in "the queen's gambit." she has a bloomberg terminal screen on the ceiling of her bedroom, and she is watching it 24/7. lisa: my kids love it. jonathan: i bet. equity futures down 14 on the s&p 500, -0.3%. yields coming off about five basis points.

that's the trend this morning. yields higher, equities lower. euro-dollar, $1.1740. tom: i am watching that statistic on payrolls. here's what we are going to do. this is important for global wall street and everybody else on radio and tv. why don't we find someone out there totally removed from the madness of margin calls and excess leverage. james bevan would be a candidate, with ccla, the chief investment officer. he's been running sober money for decades, and he joins us today. i am not going to waste your time with the margin call discussion. what i am going to say to you is how do you operate in this mill you -- this mileu? what do you do when you have banks operating off of big losses? james: we are indeed going to get great economic growth figures for april and may,

significantly on the back of the action by the administration, and not least $1400 to eligible persons. i think we will see something like 100 $80 on the sb five rendered -- $180 on the s&p 500 rising to over 2000 -- over $200. i think it justifies the year in target for the s&p 500 this year rising to 4800 points next year. if there is a real risk, i think it is twofold. one, that the federal reserve continues to argue that it doesn't need to change, that the bond market does the work for quelling inflation, and

inevitably leads to a correction. the other thing i think is just as real is that a large chunk, the $1400 that is applied to markets, we get a melt up in early may and june, and that is where we should take money off the table. jonathan: optimal reopening play, then, what is it? james: for me, the world-class banks that operate in the united states. j.p. morgan and bank of america, it seems to me they have ample opportunity to lend sensibly into accelerating market. they have excellent loan criteria. they will be significant participants in recovery. i think it ends with consumer staples, consumer discretionary, but i am surprised when look at the portfolios of fund managers on a market basis.

i think few have yet to make that switch. lisa: it does somewhat there is's some subtext -- like there is some subtext when you talk about two banks that were immune from the recent blowup of archegos. do you think there are perhaps some european or japanese banks that got embroiled in this issue , or do you see them also holding value as the yield curve steepen's? james: no, i am staying out of those areas. one of the things about how the european central bank's target systems operate, there are huge imbalances within the euro system. germany has to lend huge sums into the target system.

no surprise european banks are in real trouble. french banks have been pulling back and lending into asia. that strikes me as a real sign french banks are being run. i think the most interesting areas are in a decelerating economy, a reasonably well performing banking system. jonathan: i've got to jump into bring some breaking news. germany to reassess the astrazeneca vaccine after more thrombosis cases. this just speaks to the divide between the united states and europe right now, just the compare and contrast of the last 24 hours. president biden talking about making the vaccine eligible for all adults in america, and here is europe grappling still with the astrazeneca vaccine to reassess the astrazeneca vaccine in germany after those headlines crossing bloomberg. tom: a headline with similar

treatment, but certainly it is a trend. jonathan: how do you see year up in any way, shape or form? james: i think it is extremely difficult -- see europe in any way, shape or form? james: i think it is extremely difficult. there are difficulties within the euro system. you also have to talk about italy. i do hope the populists reshape italy. i think it will be good for the long term. it is the giants that are capable of making money, like lvmh, but which should remain. jonathan: thank you, james bevan of ccla, chief investment officer. always important not to just offer my opinion on any of this and go to the data. the data in the bloomberg right now -- the data in the

bloomberg right now, germany has vaccinated about 10% of the vaccine coverage. contrast that to 160 billion doses, 22 point 4% population coverage fro -- 22.4 publishing coverage. germany will reassess the astrazeneca vaccine. lisa: the messaging on this has been so confusing. what are they trying to accomplish? you obviously have a lovely science, but why is it health officials have come on this show saying those fears have been overblown, and the u.s. saying the vaccine is safe. really raising questions after angle merkel said they were going to shut down for the easter parade, just kidding -- for the easter break, then saying i was wrong jonathan: jonathan:. the consequences are clear -- i was wrong. jonathan: the consequences are clear, there's a huge pr issue

around this. huge. tom: you wonder who comes to the rescue. they've got to find another solution. maybe it is pfizer, moderna, and the others, j&j. coming up, gregory meeks, the chair from the house for an intelligence committee. this is bloomberg. kevin: -- ritika: ships are on the move again in the suez canal. an almost week long effort to dislodge a ship stuck in the canal finally succeeded. hundreds of ships were forced to wait in line. opec expects the global oil stockpile surplus that built up during the pandemic to be mostly gone in the next three months. that is earlier than previously forecast. the cartel says the precise earnings point will come in july.

the group is expected to maintain current limits for another month when it meets on thursday. drivers won't be asked to pay for president biden's $3 trillion transportation -- $3 trillion infrastructure plan. the problem is that the federal fund that pays for roadways and transit systems is funded by the city gas tax, and that currently runs at a deficit. shares of a chinese parent of tiktok are trading in the secondary market. bytedance is value has surged -- bytedance's value has surged in recent weeks. the founder has weight options for an ipo. paypal has rolled out a cryptocurrency check out feature in the u.s. starting today. companies with cryptocurrency in their paypal while it's will be able to buy goods from paypal merchants. briefly, these will allow the use of the cryptocurrency usd

coin to settle transactions on its network. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ >> what hasn't been remarked about as much is how much positions below the surface are

being whipsawed. these daily rotations where you see sectors and styles moving two, three standard deviations in a day because investors flip back and forth between trades, that is also causing a lot of pain if you are on the wrong side of those moves. jonathan: a less constructive tone coming out of blackrock in the last 24 hours. that is the blackrock global allocation fund portfolio manager. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. counting you down to the opening bell, about one hour and 12 minutes away, here's the price action. equities lower, yields higher. down 10 on the s&p, declining on the nasdaq. yields higher by four basis points, off session highs. we did have a look at 1.77%. dollar index, 93 handle. euro-dollar, $1.1742. tom: 1.75% on the 10 year yield.

all in all, a resilient tape into three important days for the american labor economy. gregory meeks joins us, a democrat from new york. this could be a two hour conversation because of his perspective on foreign affairs and his perspective as a congressman from jfk airport, the fifth district in new york. congressman meeks, on infrastructure, new jersey is worse than new york. that's all we need to know. [laughter] new york is doing fine right now by any civil engineering study. you get off the plane in new york, at laguardia, at jfk, there's a lot of roads that are troubled come up bridges troubled -- are troubled, bridges troubled. how do we fix this with the new infrastructure bill? what is different this time right now. rep. meeks: i think this time we are going to get something done.

i think if you talk to democrats and republicans, they understand that if you look at our crumbling infrastructure not only in new york come about across this nation, we've got to invest in it. just like those with their own homes, you've got to invest in your home to keep it up. otherwise, no matter how well it was built, if it was built 50, 60 years ago, like our infrastructure, it deteriorates. therefore, you've got to invest in it. if you invest in it, that makes it profitable for everybody that will utilize it. tom: can we do this with bond financing of the maturity and links of our new bridges, roads, and a new terminal at jfk? why can't we just finance this out 30, 40, 70 years? rep. meeks: i think what we need to do is a combination of both. it is a little bit of everything

from everybody. that is why i believe in a number of public/private partnerships. if i look at what we are doing at jfk airport, there needs to be government investment, and we are fighting to get that. i've tried to get some of it because of the pandemic. you look at the revenue, it was down tremendously. but also, we had private industry investing in it, so we need some sacrifice from them. that is why we extended the lease on the airport so that there's a longer term for them to get return on their investment for what they will be putting into it also. so you're getting money from both sides in that regard, which is fair to the taxpayer and the private investors also. jonathan: you wear many hats. i want to turn to a question about foreign policy. companies are getting very much entangled with what is happening in china around the cotton situation in xinjiang.

i wonder from your perspective whether you think u.s. companies should face a ban of using cotton out of xinjiang. rep. meeks: i think what we should do, and i believe that foreign affairs should work in multilateral ways. i was a strong supporter in tpp. working with other countries to make sure that the rules were level, instead of isolating ourselves. make sure that we all play by those same rules. then china would be isolated. so when they are playing with certain products, and particular when you talk about the type of product you just mentioned, and chips, etc., it is us who believe -- i'm a firm believer in the wto, and we need to

enforce those rules. and it is china who is violating them. so just the united states by ourselves, we are not as effective. but if the united states come our friends in the eu, and others are doing it collectively, now you have something that is really going to have an effect on china. jonathan: forgive me for jumping in, usa companies are facing potentially a boycott on the mainland right now. that would hurt their profits, and to get in line with the policy of the united states, you need to get these multinationals on board. that has repeatedly not worked out. we saw it last year with the disney production of "mulan," and we are seeing it now with nike and others. how do you make a decision that would be in line with your administration? rep. meeks: if they work collectively together, we can reverse it.

i know china is doing what it's doing because they put pressure on us in that regard to isolate us. so the way you change that is working with the multinationals collectively. putting them all together, figuring out how we can work together so that their issues are resolved, and then putting that proposition versus china. jonathan: but they want to be there, sir. that is ultimately the problem. they want to be there. they want to straddle the fine line between pleasing you and a progressive consumer base in the united states and press into china at the same time. so is this something you would consider, banning the companies from using cotton from that region? rep. meeks: i don't like to use the word banning. i like to work collectively together. that means you can come to a resolution collectively. you are understanding they'll have the same business interests.

i don't want them to damage their business interests that they have in china. one of the things is to be able to open up their markets in regards to our companies so that we can compete globally. that is equitable. that is what trading is all about. that is what it's about for multinational corporations. so in my estimation, what we want to do is talk to our multinationals and let them know that is important for them to work collectively together in the long haul with all of us in the long run, and that is in the spirit of cooperation. jonathan: it is a really delicate issue right now. i would love to catch up with you again soon on it. congressman, thank you. on infrastructure, a very delicate foreign policy issue right now, too.

lisa: trying to maintain a good relationship with china, supporting your own companies, and also getting allies on board. jonathan: coming up, on the outlook for this economy, ethan harris of bank of america. from new york, this is bloomberg. ♪

jonathan: from new york city for our audience worldwide, this is "bloomberg surveillance." this is what the situation look like in the bottom market. yields are up three basis points. on tens, up five basis point. on tens, 1.7545. to the equity market, underperformance comes from the nasdaq. underperformance from the russell. on the nasdaq, up .6%. the reopening of the economy and the data we expect can be stellar. we will skip the rest of it and get straight to this point. bank of america looking for growth around 5.5 next year and one million payrolls growth on friday. the data is stellar and you can

draw a line to what they see in the credit card spending data, which is absolutely massive. tom: is the micro data, the macro call. ethan harris joins us now. using the resources of bank of america where he is head of global economics. i look at the parlor game of one year gas or two year gas and come out with the chinese economy. you have 6.25% economic growth spread out over 24 months. that is a chinese equivalent economy. how will america adjust to this if we have an economy not structured like china? ethan: we cannot grow at that pace indefinitely. this is a huge recovery, the fastest recovery in history for the u.s. economy over the next two years.

eventually we have to slow down. by the time we get to 2023, the fed will have to pull back a bit. we cannot afford to continue to do $1 trillion physical packages every year. we cannot grow at chinese rates. we do not have the population, we do not have the catching up to do of technology that china has. we can get early robust years in a row. i've been looking at the spending data you've produced in your reports. how useful has that been to have every twist and turn spelled out for you ahead of time? ethan: we aggregate the data, so obviously we do not know anything about the individuals involved. it has turned out to correlate quite well with turns in spending. it is interesting to look at the spending behavior when you can match it to policy changes like

the rollout of stimulus checks and how that impacted households who got those checks. what you found was the stimulus checks really boosted spending a lot. it is one of the factors that convinced us to get even higher above consensus on growth, with consumer spending in the start of the year and almost 12% annualized rate. the stimulus check has put a lot of caffeine into the economy. jonathan: unreal numbers. i will go through some of your research for our audience. seven days ending march 20, you can do the year-over-year and do the base effect, but look at 2019, 2019 into 2020 versus 2021, we are up 23% on a two year basis. looking at the credit card spending out of bank of america. these numbers are huge. lisa: went to we moved from

recovery into something more sustainable and something that has longer legs, adding to employment, adding to inflation over the longer-term? ethan, it seems like the consensus is this is a momentary blip. do you agree or are there longer-lasting legs from the spending for a faster economy for a longer period of time? ethan: it is true we will not grow at 12% every quarter going forward. the fate in growth will not be that dramatic. we think by the end of next year we will be growing 4% instead of 12%. that is still a great number by historic standards. the reason we think there is legs's they will continue to rollout fiscal stimulus. we will get another two or $3 trillion spread over the next four or five years. the fed has both feet planted on

the accelerator. keeping interest rates at zero in the face of a strong recovery and rising inflation is very stimulative. it is unprecedented. i do not agree with the idea of a short run caffeine high that goes away. i think we slow down but we slow down the strong rates. lisa: you raise an issue of ongoing fiscal stimulus. how much are you thinking about these checks? not $1400, but checks being sent to americans as the precursor to some sort of universal basic income, some sort of ongoing payments, and that the evidence of the spending jonathan was just talking about used to justify that kind of plan? ethan: you got elements of this already in the various plans throughout the administration. you've already seen an increase in the childcare credit for the next year.

it is very likely that will be extended. there will be elements of trying to support moderate income families on a sustained basis. i do not think we go to some of the broader proposals around guaranteeing incomes at certain levels. do not think we get to that but there are a lot of progressive elements to the stimulus. lisa: here is the conundrum when it comes doing elation which is such a key issue. -- when it comes to inflation which is such a key issue. if we start getting payments on an ongoing basis could that fuel and inflationary push and how much does this lead to wage inflation we have not yet seen? tom: the wage inflation question is there. i want to go back to columbia university at the engineering work at clark university that was hit over your head at a young age. it goes back to systems analysis and the idea of many people,

there has to be upon, there has to be a price to any zero-sum system. how do you have a boom with all of the benefits of a boom we are all hoping for and have that emotion? there has to be a price to this down the road. what is the ethan harris price we will pay? ethan: you just gave my whole resume away, thank you for that. in the short run, we can afford deficits. we need to get the economy out of the hole. the problem is while you can have your cake and eat it too during a stimulus, once you get into a full recovery, now you're competing for resources between the private sector and public sector. if you keep rolling out big stimulus money and financing through the bond market, you will starve the private sector

of capital. that is where the danger comes. it is not right now. my concern is we get into a fully employed economy late next year and nobody hits the stop sign. we do not slow down at all. then we get competing resources, inflation, crowding out of private investors. tom: brilliant analysis. versus a closed economy versus open economy. if we get to her capital allocation moment 2023, 2024, we do that in a global economy. does that leak out into the global system? ethan: we are going to be driving the global economy and the next couple years. to a lesser degree china as well. we will be buying a tremendous amount of imports. we'll be exporting a chunk of

our fiscal stimulus and we will be relying on form capital to help fund our economy. that is not free money. that is money you owed the rest of the world. there is a growing indebtedness to the rest of the world. we will have bigger trade deficits and sustained high budget deficits. this is not a free lunch. tom: this is so important and goes back to bill gross talking about the locomotive of the system. there is no question the u.s. is the locomotive. jonathan: you can see that in the data. the recovery and china has already matured. ethan, we have to leave it there. ethan harris, bank of america securities head of global research. 7% gdp growth is the estimate for this year. 5.5% the estimate for next year. payrolls this friday, upping yet

one million. huge numbers. tom: it is my fault. we did not get to that. that is an unimaginable number. what i find from the optimist is they sustained that one million to get to a 7 million job ad out to the end of the year. jonathan: see you again in april, may, june. lisa: bank of america very different from morgan stanley, saying not necessarily burning hot and burning short, but there could be legs. that raises questions about inflation not necessarily going to 1970's runaway inflationary discussion points, just more inflation and what does it mean for the bond market? jonathan: 700,000 if anyone is interested. morgan stanley and the team looking at 700,000. i go back to the credit card and card spending data. total card spending is measured by the card data increased 45%

over one year. 23% over the two years for the seven days ending march 20. it gives you a feeling of what is still to come in this economy. tom: can i tell you what i've been doing all morning? jonathan: you have me worried because we have been doing the show together for the last three hours. tom: i've been doing my taxes. i just got the bill from motel 6 in l.a.. i've been looking at ms equities cm go, which is the news flow. jonathan: looking for a statement from morgan stanley. lisa: how was the airport? was it completely crowded? tom: i learned a lot from this trip. the airport had a pop to it. jonathan: why are you encouraging this? lisa: it is kind of fun. [laughter]

tom: from terminal two in lax to motel 6. coming up, goldman sachs g equity strategist david costin. from new york city. good morning. tom: i have tyler the creator. [laughter] jonathan: lisa is back. this is bloomberg. tom: you are not happy about me back. [laughter] ritika: germany plans to reassess the use of the astrazeneca vaccine after reports of more blood clots. according to reuters, the countries vaccine regulator says nine people have died from a rare blood clot after taking the vaccine. on monday canada suspended his of the astrazeneca shop for people under the age of 55 because of concerns about the blood clots. biontech has now raised the number of vaccine doses it plans to make this year by 25%, the new target 2.5 million doses.

biontech estimates it took in $405 million in revenue versus $33 million a year earlier. president biden is planning to take on the nations challenge of inequality with a massive expansion of government spending. the president also plans to revamp the tax code. he will start to outline his plans tomorrow in a speech in pittsburgh. his speech will route the infrastructure part of a $3 trillion spending package. social programs will be unveiled next month. the immediate crisis over the suez canal blockage has ended but a battle over damage is just beginning. it is estimated the cost of the closure was $10 billion a day right cargo is delayed for days if not months. global news 24 hours a day, on air and on quicktake by

bloomberg, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i am ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

tom: "bloomberg surveillance."

we welcome you on radio and television. lisa abramowicz and tom keene. jon ferro migrating to our next hour of coverage. we are waiting for news on this margin call. i will give it a global nature. we started with m ufj in japan in tokyo and then we go to further billions at credit suisse. lisa: there is a question of whether the trait has been unwound. sources close to it have been telling bloomberg reporters they were mostly done with the selling. however this raises the question about the amount of leverage in the system that is not being tracked. that continues to be a question as we deal with a hot market after a long time of low interest rates. tom: the history is there'll will be others out there. i do not put too much in that. the thought there'll be one family office or hedge fund. to get perspective on this we rip up the script and talk to barry ritholtz who remembers

where he was the third week of august, 1998. he remembers where he was with an irish collapse of 2008. we have seen this before. it is greed folding into success and then folding into additional leverage. robin wigglesworth talking about 20 times and eight times leverage. you cannot succeed without leverage, can you? barry: if you are hedge fund and you have to meet a monthly bogey is challenging to succeed without leverage. let me point out two things. everyone wants to reference long-term capital management. they were at 100 times. 20 x relatively speaking is almost rational. is there any field besides finance that has demonstrated such an inability to learn from history?

it is shocking. tom: it is shocking when we see that. i go back to a guest talking about the russian roulette. he says the math we get gone is the simplicity of a gun. the reality is it is a one in 1000 collapse. what we have seen as you go with success until it does not work. barry: that is right. i jokingly reference that if you set the speed record on the straightaway and you have the fastest time but you cannot make the turn at the end and you hit the wall and exploded into flames, you should not get credit for setting the record. you have to be able to navigate the turn. we have seen this time and again. when people embrace risk, when they ignore managing the downside, leverage is fantastic on the way up, but it is hideous on the way down. this one of the oldest lessons

in finance. tom: what is so important from taleb to randomness to the black swan's you wonder what the family office had with skin in the game. the answer is they did not. they passed up the ownership to the prime brokers. lisa: they did not have a lot of skin in the game but it was allowed. some people might argue the fed was encouraging people to do just that, to lever up, whether it is a company borrowing a ton of money or individual fund that cannot earn their bogey with a 1.6% treasury yield on the 10 year. they have to lever up where they are encouraged to lever up with cheap money on the front end. how much do you view this as a side effect of the ongoing policies we have out of washington, d.c.? barry: not really. none? how about nine. there are 11,000 -- how about none?

there are 11,000 hedge funds that did not blow up in this is the rule. the vast majority with access to infinite amounts of average are more or less not overleveraged, unless you are implying this is the tip of the spear. lisa: i am not implying because i do not know. i am raising the question because we are looking at leverage ratios that are still high historic late among u.s.-based long short hedge funds. i was looking at one statistic that as of march 23, these long short hedge funds are underperforming because a lot of them are using more crowded trades, the leverage is still 201%, only 9% lower than january's high, which is the highest in a decade. doesn't this raise a question about what happens if we do get a material disruption that does spur an unwind on a more holistic basis? barry: sure. that is always a risk.

there is always the possibility that a large group of highly leveraged funds -- similar to the quake back in 2008 -- if everyone has a similar book and they're all exposed to similar things. i'm not sure this environment is conducive to that. what was on 2007-2 thousand eight is there were so many things moving in a specific action it was not surprised the quants were all similarly exposed. this smells like a one-off. i am not sure if this is the first cockroach and there are a lot more. it seems to be specific, spreading out the leverage amongst a lot of different prime brokers is kind of the interesting systemic issue that is raised. i am wondering what the fallout from that will be? are the various brokers going to start enhancing their ordination so they can avoid -- i do not

want to say being duped -- but they can avoid lots of exposure to a specific overleveraged fund. i do not know how much they're doing that but i would not be surprised to see more coronation to make sure they do not have similar exposure to one highly leveraged hedge fund. tom: a brilliant idea. it is so competitive. i've trouble seeing that. barry ritholtz, bloomberg opinion. i'm sure in the coming weeks and months barry ritholtz will address this disaster from the banks on his acclaimed podcast. lisa, what an extraordinary moment it has been since thursday. lisa: i will say to your very good point about difficulties for the banks to work together -- tom: i do not buy it for a minute. lisa: and the reporting overnight about how banks were at each other's throats because they were saying let's cordon eight so we do not end up with a free-for-all -- let's cordon eight so we do not -- so we do

not end up with a free-for-all. according to reporting -- newmar and credit suisse got left on the hook. tom: had the honor of speaking with a lawyer not once or twice about his experience in 1998 about his experience as an advisor in some equity interest. i do not see the equivalency. that was the banks all meeting except bear stearns and saying we have to get together to fix this. lisa: some people might view this as a testament to the strength of the financial system. the fact that even with millions of dollars of losses the financial system is not at risk. no one is worried about contagion. you can see that in the calm price action. that is testament to the high capital withholdings. michael: -- tom: it is testament to being in the triple leveraged cash bond. it is a wonderful way. prime brokers love this. lisa: i was going to say. are they coordinating with one

another? [laughter] tom: it is a moneymaker. dow futures -38. the vix 21.26. stay with us. on radio and television. my book of the summer at 12:00 noon. ♪