tv Bloomberg Markets Bloomberg June 17, 2021 1:00pm-2:01pm EDT
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>> i'm alix steel, welcome to commodities edge. let's get right to the data dig. taking a look at some of the top market stories of the week. there were some bullish indicators. stocks fell more than expected particularly in the midwest. refinery runs going strong, and so is product demand. gasoline demand jumped, and diesel inventories fell. jet fuel demand is the highest since may 2008. this is a pop in the stock at the end of may. the cofounder and chairman of tulare and was the first to see and invest in the u.s. lng market. he is taking his pitch direct to retail investors as he battles what he calls the scourge of short-sellers.
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>> you are our investors. you have also helped us get rid of the scourge of, counter the scourge of short-sellers who are the day traders who play the same security 10 times a day and you have made it very uncomfortable for them to be short the stock. alix: it kind of played out. the orange line is short interests. about 8.7% shares are short. retail guys are making up nearly half. reddit users creating their own forum for tellurian. the story of the week is the metals crash. rolling over here. one potential explanation is china, which ordered state forms to do many things like curb overseas commodity exposure, force domestic banks to hold more currencies, limiting leverage, and selling metals all
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from state reserves. that is having an impact, particularly when it comes to copper. has the cycle hit a roadblock? is it a roadblock or speedbump? joe is all over the story. which one is it? >> probably a speedbump. china is old news, they feel like they are way ahead of the game. you are still looking at south america and europe. they have not fully reopened. in terms of demand, we could see a lot on that front. steelmakers came out with pre-reported earnings yesterday. they say demand is great, we expect better demand in the third quarter. even in the u.s. there is room to grow. you are seeing the fed coming out saying they will raise rates quicker than expected, so you see a bump up in the dollar, making commodities more expensive. alix: china does not want superhigh commodity prices when they need those commodities.
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can they actually influence the price like they did in the last cycle? joe: like a trader told me, of course they can. we might police the strategic reserve, we say we will do it, but are we going to do it? you have seen the way prices are impacted, machinery stocks, everything. the question is, will they follow through on that? we don't know. if you are a traitor, a lot of guys will say we believe it when we will see it-- trader, a lot of guys will say we will believe it when we see it. alix: thank you, joe. time now for commodity in chief, where we talk to one executive in the commodity world, the chairman of -- mining. the world needs copper for ev's, smart grids, solar panels, the stuff that will determine i the world. demand can grow at a compound
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annual rate at 2.3%. over the past 20 years, that number is closer to 2.2%. bank of america still sees a deficit, and sees the prospects of a super cycle as this decarbonization push can offset any market softness. net net we need more copper. but mining is not exactly super green. you can use renewable energy to power mines or replace diesel engines with battery ones or use less water. all and all, copper is not the worst offender. it him it's just 3.95 tons of co2 per ton produced. over all, just 1.5% of all metals. enter 4m mining. they plan to be shovel ready this year. it recently got a $100 million
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canadian investment. the goal is to be carbon neutral on day one and be carbon negative eventually. i spoke to the ceo ask about how he can possibly turn a coppermine green. >> copper is really the key ingredient needed to decarbonizing the world, yet, extracting copper is one of the biggest carbon emitters in the world. it is kind of a large oxymoron that doesn't make sense. we wanted to solve that first. we were really lucky. in canada, we have hydropower. hydropower is a renewable energy. more than that, economically, it is one of the cheapest sources of power in the world. we are lucky in that sense. we started thinking about how we go about building this mine to be green, knowing that we have a major head start, knowing that our renewable energy is a source
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of co2 emissions. we started to see that a lot of the factory electric vehicle technology, electric equipment was already there, it just had not been upgraded to heavy scale mining activities. however, in the last 24 months, all of this has changed. alix: aside from the hydropower, what are some of the specific nerdy things that you are doing that is different? >> we started looking at using hemp. not only is it one of the safest methods for storage, but by utilizing hemp, it acts as a bio accumulator for the heavy metals, which is good for the environment. hemp is also a sequester of carbon, essentially carbon negative. we started bringing these types of things into the mix.
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then we went a step further and started looking at not just normal concrete to build infrastructure on the surface, we started looking at ways to utilize hempcrete instead of concrete, other forms of carbon negative materials when we go into construction. alix: can you actually be carbon negative? >> we think we can. we have some ideas. we are trying not to talk about it too much because we are not there yet. i don't want to give away too much yet but we have a lot in the works. alix: how much more expensive is it to build it the way you want to? >> we are lucky that our deposit is an underground mine, so starts 30 meters below the surface. it is a much less carbon intensive process per unit of copper, but it is also a much lower capex, which is the big
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thing, to maximize your returns. alix: if you wanted to build this the way that you wanted to three years ago, how much cheaper is it today? >> a lot of the technology aspects, let's say battery electric vehicles, equipment, they were not ready to be used in mining two or three years ago. between 30 and 50% more expensive on some of the key equipment. alix: do you feel like your company will be able to command a bigger premium in the capital markets? >> there's a lot of pressure on money managers today to only invest in carbon neutral business, so for us it is a strategic approach. we don't want to limit ourselves to a certain pool of capital. we want to enable everyone to own us. alix: if a mind wanted to retrofit their activity, or if another new mine wanted to start up, what would they need to see to do that more greenlee? >> i would say not really for our mine, but the incentive
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price that is needed for the industry will be around $15,000 a ton in the near term. call that close to seven dollars per pound. alix: that was my interview with dan myerson. we know everything is bigger in texas, now including the temperatures. the lone start state is pushing some businesses to conserve electricity this week to stave off that -- blackouts as a heat wave fix the west. this is the first heat related stress test of the year for grids, and an historic drought is gripping the western half of the nation. there are low water levels in key reservoirs, which is used for hydropower. it is all connected. what is on my radar next week? i'll be monitoring a panel of the bloomberg qatar economic
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analysis on the federal reserve's slightly hawkish turn. and we are speaking with antony trench avenue, one of the -- with one of the largest -- why the commodities boom is fueling a surge in crime. let's get a quick look at the markets. we have some real movement in some of these commodities. the s&p little changed at 4221. the u.s. 10 year coming down to 1.4922. it had been down in the .148's 10 minutes ago. gold coming down substantially, $40 a troy ounce, well under 1800 now, 1774. if the federal reserve will raise rates, rates will rise, we don't see them doing that now.
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you don't want to own gold. u.s. crude, nymex crude, west texas intermediate also trading down to $70 a barrel. commodities coming down across the spectrum. let's get more on what happened yesterday with the federal reserve with brian jacada with bloomberg opinion. we did not really see a lot of action yesterday in terms of rate moves, we only saw a few basis points on reverse repose. we did see a hawkish turn in language. powell says now is the time to start talking about rate increases, reducing stimulus, and we saw the dot plot move. what is the most important? brian: markets are considering this to be a hawkish surprise. if you look at the yield curve from five to 30 years, it has flattened about five basis
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points. it seems a little bit overdone. i think there was the most short positioning heading into this fed meeting since 2005, at least measured by jp morgan. they were expecting jay powell to tow the dovish line, not think about tapering or raising rates. even though i don't think that is necessarily a huge hawkish signal because you can predict anything 30 months out from now. it is still a hawkish movie and people are closing their short positions in the bond market at least. matt: in terms of the dot plots, what i'm hearing from a lot of observers today is, who cares? 50 basis points in three years will not make any kind of difference to the economy. did the market get too worked up about this? brain: that was my stance as well. the fed didn't do a whole lot yesterday, they just indicated they would not let inflation go
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overboard. maybe that was a concern for people who are trading treasuries. the fed is going to let along and go wild, rise up to 4%, and that just does not seem likely. the fed is clearly monitoring inflation, is willing to admit that they could be wrong that inflation is transitory, that inflation expectations could be coupled home where they been anchored for so long. that is not what they are thinking but the fact that they are possibly thinking that could be the case is a shuttle -- subtle shift from their view that it was nothing to worry about. matt: you know i love reading your columns on bloomberg opinion. there were a couple of other great pieces over the last couple of days proceeding this meeting. mohamed el-erian argued that the fed backed themselves into a corner with this new policy framework, where they are supposed to watch what happens,
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rather than trying to forecast what will. lisa abramowicz wrote a piece pointing out that this may cause some financial market dangers. we see such low rates, companies are taking on so much leverage. has the fed eased its way out of those positions? brain: i think the markets are try to figure out what is going on right now. you have commentary ranging from, the fed is not moving fast enough to tighten policies, to the fed is tightening too fast, we were surprised by this hawkish turn. when you look at the sharp move in the treasury market today especially, people are saying what is going on here? it just does not feel like it is connected to anything fundamental. a lot of people were positioned for the fed to act in one direction, as the framework dictates, to just focus on informant -- employment at all costs. that is not what the fed will do.
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they are, trying to balance their risks, preserve some optionality, and that is not good news for those who thought it would spike along with inflation. matt: in terms of employment, jerome powell did not really seem so outcome-focused yesterday. he was making some actual predictions? brain: he said we think it will be a really strong summer for the job market and heading into september, when unemployment benefits expire. he also talked about the idea that may be the employment to population ratio might be different from what we anticipated. a lot of people who used the pandemic and the run-up in asset prices to retire early. maybe there will not be quite so many workers in certain demographics like we saw before the pandemic. i think the fed signaled an openness to being wrong, rather than a rigidity to this is what will happen, we believe this
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will happen and we will not move until this happens. on the employment front and the inflation front. matt: you mentioned the 10-year move seems disconnected from what we are hearing from powell and the fed. what is happening with the 10-year? are there are a lot of foreign buyers piling in, are there technical reasons for the yield holding under 1.50? brain: when you see such a sharp move like today and it is already retracing a bit, you have to look at short covering. the positioning seem to like it was outsized. naturally, cover some of those shorts. you have seen for the past several weeks, months now, there has been a bid from pensions, banks, and foreign buyers. there seems to be a demand for safe assets. that is still very much in play.
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when you have yields that backup to a certain level, study, and then start to fall, you will draw demand. matt: thank you so much, brian. talking about the fed. when i wake up in the morning, the first thing i do is look at daybreak, top stories, most read ny blog, and then it is time for opinion. a really great section. opin go on the bloomberg. still ahead, we will be hearing from the front runner to succeed angela merkel as chancellor in germany. he is the head of the cdu party. he praises the u.s. multilateral approach with its world relations. this is bloomberg. ♪
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matt: this is bloomberg markets. i'm matt miller. one of the things the fed actually did yesterday was slightly raise rates in its reverse repo facility to just above zero. that seems to be drawing a lot more cash into it. we are at an all-time record now. looking at $756 billion in the reverse repo facility. the chart you are looking at are the tweaks to the rates. our producer in new york has put together a really incredible
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chart on the amount of money that has been loaded into those facilities. we will try to get that to you. earlier today, here in germany, armin laschet, leader of the christian democrat union, leader to succeed angela merkel spoke to bloomberg. he called for the reinstatement of european union budget rules after the coronavirus pandemic subsides. armin: the basic principle is that debt is connected with responsibility. we do not want to enter into a debt union in europe. we don't know what the economic situation will be in 2025, what kind of pandemic situation there will be, if we are in a dire situation. under normal circumstances, it is always limited in time. matt: highly recommend checking that out on bloomberg.com when
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you have some time. it looks like, according to the polling, armin laschet will be the next leader of germany after angela merkel finishes her 14 years at the helm here in berlin. now let's get to summing that caught my and the attention of my colleague, tracy. pet inflation. she wrote about the available pool of dollars from rescue shelters and breeders is too small to accommodate the surge in demand during the pandemic. it matches a lot of the shortages we are seeing in the supply chain for other commodities, as customer demand surges, retailers order goods, often too many, and factories are caught short. it is very difficult when you are talking about puppy production. here is the shot of my puppy stephen when i first acquired him. he was quite expensive actually but he has been worth it over
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the last 10 lovable years. much more ahead from berlin. we will talk about what is going on in the markets after that fed meeting. we will also talk about what is going on with commodities. the surge in prices is pushing a lot of people to steal stuff. hopefully, steve does not get taken. i'm matt miller. this is bloomberg. ♪
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that provides health insurance to 20 million americans. the justices rejected a challenge by republican-controlled states and former president trump administration. the boat was 7-2 with samuel alito and neil gorsuch dissenting. dr. anthony fauci announced united states is devoting more than $3 billion to advance the limit of antiviral pills for covid-19. the pills are in development and could begin arriving by years and. the clinical trials are completed. the medications would be used to minimize symptoms after infection. applications for u.s. state on a plummet benefits rose slightly last week for the first time last. initial jobless claims increased by 37,000 to 412,00.
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president biden plan to sign legislation this afternoon that will make june 19 a federal holiday, celebrating the end of slavery.juneteenth will be the 12 federal holiday in the united states, which marks the day in 1865 when union soldiers brought the board of freedom to enslaved people in galveston, texas. global news 24 hours a day, on-air, and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. i'm mark crumpton. this is bloomberg. amanda: welcome to bloomberg markets. i'm amanda lang. matt: i'm matt miller. welcome to our bloomberg and bnn bloomberg audiences. here are the top stories we are following from around the world.
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ford sees strong demand in the second quarter. we will break down the numbers from the automaker second-quarter earnings. and we will speak with anthony trench avenue, managing partner of nexo about his call on bitcoin hitting possibly $100,000 over the next 12 months. and why the boom in commodity prices during the pandemic has fueled a surge in theft from around the world. although, amanda, that might be self expiratory. when stuff gets more valuable, more people want to steal it. amanda: especially when it is often left lying around job sites. watching markets, lots to chew on today post that hawkish fed. it is a mixed picture. the s&p 500 unchanged, it had been weaker.
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the nasdaq is bearing better. inside the s&p 500 is the big story. the big decliner are energy, financials, materials. the groups that make up tech are doing ok, mildly positive. worth noting that the big banks are really suffering today. bank of america, citigroup, wells fargo down to the tune of 4%. you have a hawkish fed in the mix. lots for investors to think about. the 10-year yield, not enough to know that the fed is talking about tapering to get the yield to stay above 1.5. we are watching the u.s. dollar. we saw a strong reaction yesterday, as with a lot of the assets we were following, some of volatility in the u.s. dollar. the real question is inflation and if it is transitory. so interesting to hear jay powell say that much of what we
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are seeing is an anomaly. one place you can point to, he used it as an example, along with lumber, was used cars. used car inflation the highest since the 1970's. there is a great chart that we will show in the terminals. we know that is being driven by chip shortages, bottlenecks. it is a fascinating snapshot with the kind of thing the fed is grappling with right now. matt: i would also like to point out, the average age of cars on the road in the u.s. is now more than 12 years. one of the things contributing to this is that cars are just so much better than they were. not in terms of design, aesthetics, big block engines, but in terms of reliability and durability, they are able to be driven for much longer, and maybe even more pleasurably over
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a 10, 20-year time span. which is why you are seeing them stay on the road and selling for more money. amanda: and there will be a huge turnover once we do away with the internal combustion engine. that will be a big moment for everyone to replace their cars. we heard from ford today, which gets us to stock of the hour. despite the bottlenecks that continue, which today and other carmakers have felt from chip shortages, it sees a decent quarter. dave wilson is here. dave: if you just look at today, the stock has had a 2% gain, 3% loss. remember, gm came out yesterday, increased their first-half forecast for earnings before interest and taxes. today, it was ford's turn for
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the second quarter. i didn't get into the numbers but analysts are participating that it would be -$1.3 billion this quarter after three straight profits. there is plenty of room for improvement there. it is all about the chip supply issues, dealing with those, expected costs, how high used-car prices are helping with the credit business when it comes to auctioning off vehicles. then there is the demand for new models. the ford bronco, sport-utility vehicles. behind that, the f-150 lightning, electric pickup, maverick pickup, while we are at it. there is demand and it is being reflected in ford's optimism about what the numbers will look like this quarter. matt: you have to hand it to them, they have come out with
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some pretty unbelievable vehicles with jim farley at the helm. the new bronco is one that i cannot wait to drive. i would swap in a coyote 5 leader. the newraptor looks amazing. i think they are the only company to offer a 37-inch wheel set from the factory. and then they have the electrics. the f-150 lightning has this huge frunk. i wonder how that will do. ford and gm have upset -- substantially upped their investment. in electric and i cannot not mention the electric hummer. dave: both companies are ramping up their bets on ev's. when gm came out yesterday with that first-half forecast for earnings, they also increased their projected spending through
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2025 on ev's and av's for the second time since november. another $30 billion on top of the already 37 that ford is spending. that particular number was increased about 20%. from a market perspective, folks at bloomberg nef pay close attention to the ev market, looking at 2.5 percent sales in north america from those electric cars and trucks. out to 2040, anticipating 74%. there is a lot of market that these companies are chasing. matt: i know the mustang mach -e is a favorite. do you have a new favorite production car? dave: i have my ford escape at home, it is seven years old, and i may keep it passed that 12-your average for the u.s.
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when it comes to cars. matt: like i said, they work better for longer, more reliable and durable. thanks for joining us, dave wilson, talking about the car stocks. coming up, we will talk crypto. anthony trench avenue joins us, cofounder of nexo. we will get his take on bitcoin. this is bloomberg. ♪
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sped up its expected pace of hollis e tightening -- policy tightening. we also saw the dollar index jump, at one point, its biggest gain over the year. we have seen commodities probably drop. its biggest loss in over a year. we have seen some real moves around this, but the other thing that we have seen that normally would move a lot is crypto's, and they have not really been hit by this big dollar move. let's bring in antoni trenchev, cofounding partner of nexo, best known for providing the first crypto credit lines, one of the largest crypto lenders in the world. let me get your reaction to the fed. it is odd to ask somebody from
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the crypto world about the fed, kind of, although this is the master of fiat currency. he did not drive but going down even as golda dropped. antoni: bitcoin has taken a little bit of a beating prior to that, so the news is not even affecting me anymore. kidding aside, it is important with the fed is doing. bitcoin has profited handsomely off of the loose monetary policy. right now it is hovering within a range. i don't think this should have too much of a sway over where crypto is trading right now. amanda: we should note some of the lack of logic of what is happening in gold. if we are going to get real yield anywhere else, because monetary policy changes, you could see people shifting out of yield, but we have not seen anything yet. maybe a pre-reaction.
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as the case for bitcoin changed in your view? what is the key driver to own bitcoin here? antoni: fundamentally, we are still in an inflationary environment, and i know the fed says it is transitory and that what we are feeling is not real, but every day i feel inflation creeping up. 10 years ago, something that cost 20 pounds, my special lunch, now it cost 46 pounds, so i feel the inflation. with regard to bitcoin, we have something that matt is very fond of. 50-day moving average crossing with the two hunt-day moving average. i think we are in the range for a different reason, taking out
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the leverage of the system. i see us within the 32 to 40 range. depending on how we react to that we will see a pickup. hopefully, the worst is now behind us. amanda: you have a high ultimate target for bitcoin. what is the catalyst that drives it out of that range, up toward 100,000, if possible? antoni: a couple of factors. now that leveraged accounts have blown up, there is no more leverage in the system, so it could build up again. this bumps up the price. institutional adoption is coming, slower than some of us would have hoped. now we have entire countries accepting bitcoin and adopting it as legal tender, which i'm excited about. matt: do you see other countries
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following that? after el salvador did it, will we see others jumping on the bandwagon, other leaders? antoni: not immediately. el salvador is a small country, they have some troubles here in their, and this is -- and there, and the country has some troubles with remittances. other latin american countries could follow. is the u.s. going to follow suit? i doubt that. but imagine how much more enjoyable it would have been if you could pay for your mojito on the beach with bitcoin. amanda: can we agree that one of the weaknesses in the bitcoin story is, if it were to be adopted by a country of real size, it has limited capacity to be useful. it would go to a million if the
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u.s. adopted it and it became widely circulated. doesn't that argue for other crypto's in favor of bitcoin to be the favorite digital currency? antoni: not at all, bitcoin is the number one currency and it will maintain that position. i am super excited about ether. what this calls for is companies like nexo, where you don't sell your crypto to buy whatever, you just take out a loan against your appreciating asset. the whole deal finances itself. we are here to help everybody out there with this particular offering. matt: do you see nexo moving further into -- antoni: we are doing that precisely as we speak. last week, we had a governance vote. the next token holders can have their say in certain aspects of the business, how we go forward,
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adopt and change to the needs of our customers. decentralization will benefit some businesses, eliminating the need for trusted third parties. being the bridge between traditional finance and the brave new world of crypto, you still need companies like nexo being centralized because of the inherent things with fiat currency. amanda: great to have you with us. we didn't get a chance to ask you what you had for lunch that is so expensive. appreciate your time. cofounder of nexo. commodity prices are driving a surge in crime. that is bloomberg's dictate, coming up next. ♪
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amanda: this is bloomberg markets. i'm amanda lang. surging commodity prices have also created an upswing in crime related to the theft of some of those commodities. it's a global phenomenon that is tracked in our bloomberg big take. one of those reporters is with us now. obvious, something gets more valuable, more people will want to take it. what does that say and how bad is the problem globally? everything from copper to catalytic converters are apparently up for grabs. >> as we probably know, the theft of commodities is not new. soaring prices incentivizes the situation. you had a unique number of
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factors in the pandemic, supply chain being messed up, companies having to source from suppliers that are not your usual. we also have a lot of economic stress in companies such as chile. then you add a soaring prices of commodities, it becomes a for tile ground for theft of commodities from everywhere from canada to chile to nigeria. matt: amanda is well aware of the greatest commodity heist of all time. canadians years ago stole 10,000 barrels of maple syrup worth 20 million canadian dollars. that was difficult and took months, was a whole operation. here, we are seeing canadians just grabbing piles of lumber from jobsites. how else are we seeing people steal this stuff? >> there is a range of stuff
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that just seems to be lying around, lumber at canadian jobsites. but there are also certain thieves with experience. when we looked into chile, the police were aware of things like that even before the pandemic, so they knew how to spot such things. the police recently arrested three people near train tracks carrying copper slabs, which are pretty expensive. if you have one bundle, it can be around $28,000. there is a range of things being easy to steal right now because we have jobsites and stuff like that, but in other places, certain preparation, and there is more incentive to engage in stuff like that. amanda: one of the commodities that matters most to everybody is food. you also detail in the story food crimes that are up.
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we know food related fraud cost the industry billions a year. what is happening on this front? >> a lot of this goes back to the desperation of the pandemic, related to soaring food prices. one of the things that we saw, in india, reports of alterative commodities. not only the idea of theft about fraud. certain commodities being laced with dangerous materials, in some cases, people ended up in the hospital because of this. in malaysia, other products were being passed off as palm oil, which is a staple. we have a wide range of activity when it comes to fraud, to robberies, because of these combinations of factors we have been discussing. matt: thank you for joining us. reporting on not only the surgeon commodities but the crime that has been driven because of it.
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we should point out, today we see the bloomberg commodity index dropping, now 23.7%, the biggest drop since april of last year. these things are turning over. amanda: some of it will be currency driven but definitely watching hard assets on the move after the fed turns a little hawkish. matt: i am sure that thieves will make sure that those hard assets remain on the move. this is bloomberg. ♪
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in the u.k., more than 11,000 covid-19 cases, the highest numbers since february. the nation delayed recovery. the former u.k. prime minister weighed in on the urgency of global vaccination. >> every economy will face that the disease will continue to spread and mutate and be in danger of coming back. mark: we will press on. defiant words from hong kong's pro-democracy apple daily news paper after police arrested five executive. it is escalating the case against activist and publisher jenny live -- jim ely.
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