>> from the heart of where innovation and money combined, this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang.

emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg technology. coming up, antitrust showdown in the house. it takes up a series of bills like to change the internet as we know it. tech giants mount their defense. we will have the latest. bitcoin rebounds but there may be more choppy waters ahead as china enforces its current crackdown. more u.s. regulations? we will explore. the retrial market is expected -- the resale market is expected to double to $77 billion over the next five years. we will check in with julia wainwright on how she is positioning the company for demand as she celebrates a decade in business. those stories in the moment but nasdaq climbing for a third day and bitcoin bouncing back. let's get to aleppo who has -- to ed ludlow who has more. >> reforms in bitcoin.

we broke down below 30,000 u.s. dollars. throughout wednesday, trading in a range of 30,000 to 34,000 u.s. dollars. everyone is trying to make sense of this. look at this chart. let me give you my fact of the day. we are talking about this issue of bitcoins 50 day moving average falling below its 200 day moving average. this has happened seven times previously it 2010. in five out of seven, bitcoin rose by 34% but that yellow line is the 30,000 mark. the concern is if we drop below it, will we drop further? the market tells us yes. history tells us no. the stock market did not have a direction. slight outperformance in tech shares. the nasdaq flat but the nyse had techs higher. tesla leading, rising by the

most in six weeks, it's highest level since may. some conductors higher and we talk a lot about bitcoin and ethereum but there were others making gains. some of those crypto related stocks have been much higher. bitcoin rose but fell away toward the end of the day. the market is looking for direction. it was a pretty quiet day. emily: thanks a lot. the house judiciary committee consideration of an antitrust bill has begun. bipartisan pledges to break the loopholes that large companies have on the internet economy. here is a breakdown of the bill. the first house bill would protect companies from giving their own services an advantage over competitors. they could limit how apple protects its music and messaging products.

spotify and whatsapp depend on mobile phones. amazon could be sold to sell its logistics network of warehouses. a third measure aims to make it easier for users to move data like photos and contacts from one service to another. the fourth would create a new law making it easier for regulators to block deals they see as anticompetitive. the remaining measures have companion bills in the senate, giving them a better chance of becoming law. one would give the doj and the fcc more resources taken to pursue antitrust cases. the house thinking by breaking up legislation into smaller pieces, each has a better chance of becoming law. emily: for more on what to expect from the bills,anna

edgerton. what is the big takeaway? can republicans and democrats agree? anna: there is certainly enough they need to agree on. we have been going for seven hours and gotten through two of the six bills. it's a pretty long slog. lots from both sides. there has been bipartisan agreement but there is pushback from republicans about whether these measures would do enough against censorship. there is a lot to be discussed in whether the antitrust rules are the way to go about doing it. emily: republican congressman ken buck talked about the approach as a scalpel, not a chainsaw, to break up these big ambitions into smaller bills that have a greater chance of succeeding. do you think that strategy will work? anna: that is an interesting quote. i think what he is getting at is

these bills are tailored for companies. facebook, apple, amazon, and mughal. -- and google. the legislation doesn't mention them by name but it suggests it is supposed to be the only companies affected. this is different than the senate approach. the committee chairwoman amy klobuchar has taken a broader approach looking at the whole economy. the house has targeted big tech. they're looking at measures that would affect these big companies. i think that is what he means by taking a scalpel. on the question of whether these bills can become law, i think they will pass with bipartisan support out of the committee but i don't know if they will pass the house. there is concern about what these bills would do to products consumers enjoy. google maps. iphone apps like imessage. it is hard to see whether these

would get enough support to pass the house and senate. emily: anna edgerton continuing to listen into the house debate. thanks for bringing that to us. much more discussion. two of the six. stick with this and talk about how all of it could impact the tech industry with adam cova savage, who led googles public policy campaign on security and antitrust. how much of a threat is this to big tech in this moment after years of avoiding this kind of scrutiny? >> tech honeymoon is over. i know that. it limits their ability to do acquisitions. the biggest bill they are concerned about is the ones that affect their ability to improve products. if i get an iphone and it doesn't compound with apps, no imessage or facetime, that might be something zoom or facebook might want but that is not

something most consumers want. i don't see consumers marching to say make my iphone work less well. i don't see that happening. i do think one of the things is the companies that are trying to for their own ability, that's one of their concerns. emily: i want to challenge that because it is along the lines of what we have heard from google saying this would break up favor -- break up customers' favorite products. consumers have expressed concerns about tech addiction and aspects of the power. amazon sellers have expressed the power of the amazon platform and its ability to sell its own products that compete with their own sellers. it certainly seems like there is

consumer concern there. possibly for different reasons. mr. kovacevich: i agree. do you want tech to have greater regulation? they say yes. what we find is we are seeing a real debate. what specific ideas would do. if you say something like amazon cannot do amazon prime, that might help walmart or amazon cannot provide amazon basic batteries. that might help a small supplier. it might help a competitor. some things apple is limited to do could help. that is not why we write competition laws. i think that is one of the things you see.

a lot of companies like them. emily: we will have to get out of this. we are having problem with your audio but i get the high point of what you're trying to say. former head of public policy at google and current ceo at the chamber of progress who works a long time for google. we'll get back to bitcoin. just what is it rightful place in the currency universe? we will talk with mark chandler. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> the conversation about crypto is a minor percent of any dialogue we have with any company worldwide. it is not terribly important. it could crypto become a really important? sure. if there was a digital dollar or digital yuan. that would be much more impactful than any other.

emily: blackrock ceo saying earlier downplaying the prevalence of crypto. mark chandler. he is the managing director of global forex. how prevalent is it? are you having the larry fink situation? mr. chandler: i had the same experience. they are talking about corporations. companies and the treasurer's office is trying to manage risk and not take on numerous. -- not take on new risk. emily: what does that mean mean? our customers not interested in crypto? mr. chandler: the u.s. company is buying goods from germany or japan or china. they are going to trade in the u.s. dollar. why would they have crypto? it gives them new exposure and comes out of the business. corporations typically are trying to avoid that.

risk management is an important function for large companies and they typically don't want new risks. needlessly. emily: how are you looking at crypto as an asset class? are you following the ups and downs of bitcoin? we are at 33,000 but will we hit a new low before longer term potential climb? mr. chandler: yes so i follow crypto because i think it is a possibility it is a new asset class but what we see in the recent several weeks is that with the internet, hold on for dear life. giving back everything it made while inflation price transit -- price pressures seems to be

rising. the header was supposed to be a limited supply. it was supposed to protect us from inflation and it is not working out so great. emily: if you are on institutional or retail investor, why are you not see crypto, given the volatility, when by this year, you can get better returns elsewhere? mr. chandler: i think that is the point. they pride themselves on decentralized finance but when i see the survey of people looking at the ip addresses of the ownership, it looks like something like this. crypto is born in a country with great disparity in wealth and income. the crypto space is picking that up. large retail hands. you say bitcoin is around $33,000. i think most of the coins are owned by those who have 100 or more which excludes the average american -- median family is

only $65,000 or so. there is not much to accept. some people see diversification and it doesn't seem to be correlated. emily: we know china is cracking down. some regulation is coming. how much could that further debt -- further dent the momentum of this market? will it completely change? mr. chandler: there are two big challenges coming up. one is regulation. first, you talk about china. you say they are cracking down on crypto. they are enforcing a rule that has been on their books for several years. the first thing i think is china is keeping on their policy. secondly, i think the u.s., western europe is not going to

be banning crypto as some people fear to protect a monopoly but rather regulating it, making sure it is not being used to do some undesirable activities. but i think the other hurdles coming besides regulation is i think as larry fink mentioned, the possibility of bitco issued -- of a crypto or a bitcoin issued by central banks. in, digital currency, whether china, sweden -- other countries are looking at it like estonia. i am not sure why the u.s. needs one. i see some clamor for one. i am not sure it changes and i think the reason chinese currency is not being used that much in the world and you see is -- this in swift surveys

every month, less than 2% is being used by china. i don't think that is because of a technology gap. i don't think we are using it to invoice trade because they don't have a digital form. i don't think it will change the current order of things if china is the first to come out with a digital currency for next year's olympics. emily: it's this is -a million dollar question. the $33,000 question. if you look ahead five years from now, how will we look back on this time? mr. chandler: i think crypto is peaking at $2 trillion. market capitalization. i think it is a symptom of the times like sports gambling and lotteries for schools. these are parts of excesses of our society. we have $13.5 trillion of negative yield bonds. it is reeking of excess savings and capital searching for a home. emily: does that mean you think the market is going to collapse? in some way?

mr. chandler: i don't know about collapse. i am watching this -- 27000 and 30,000 in the bitcoins. a very important technical point. they are important because there is no intrinsic value except buying at a higher price. i think psychology plays a big role. i look at technical analysis and it goes through 27,000-30,000. a lot of people have been holding on with second thoughts. it might stick around but it costs a lot of money. i don't think it will capture our imaginations going forward. mr. chandler: emily: it is interesting to hear your perspective after hearing from so many bowls. -- hearing from so many crytpo pto bulls. global forex.

managing director. thank you for sharing your perspective. the cybersecurity software pioneer john mcafee has died in a spanish prison. news of his death came hours after a spanish court approved his extradition to the united states. he was arrested on tax evasion charges for failing to file tax returns for four years. his defense team argued the extradition request was politically motivated. he was accused of hiding cryptocurrency income of more than $23 million. he was 75 years old. coming up, another shakeup at the bill and melinda gates foundation in the wake of their divorce. all the details next. shares of roku and via, rallied -- and viacom rallied on a wall street journal report that comcast ceo might make a bid for one of those companies. the speculation following a flurry of big media deals including amazon's acquisition of mgm and at&t's agreement to combine warner media with discovery. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: trillions of dollars and assets. tighter rules. we spoke earlier on bloomberg television about everything from meme stocks to spacs. take a listen. >> i am animated by working families on this job and working families need the protection and franklin roosevelt knew this in the 1930's. we know this now. president biden do this. -- knows this. it's about ensuring they can make choices in the markets. that helps companies raise money by lowering the broad manipulation, ensuring there is consistent disclosure to those investors. companies benefit. >> what do you think we need more disclosure? >> i think there is trillions of dollars of assets under management calling for greater and consistent disclosure around climate risks and i've also asked staff to take up

disclosures around human capital. the most important asset of a company -- the people working there. >> thank you for joining. i am going to go broader here. i have never seen a primal cry for an sec commissioner to just do something. you mentioned something. i mentioned it an hour ago. fdr -- i will go to the commonwealth speech in the depression, there is a screen -- a primal scream chairman to do something. what does it do something you want to do to help this with meme stocks, spacs, and other things i don't understand? mr. gensler: i am sure you understand him better than that and your listeners have listened to you for years but i think the important thing is investors

want to know there is somebody looking after them. working families, pension years, people with 401(k)s. you mentioned special-purpose acquisition companies, also known as spacs. it is making sure the sponsor behind that is fully disclosing their take away. these are expensive, diluted products. there is more being taken out after the beginning when they merged with private companies in a d-spac. i call that a target ipo. it is those ensuring retail investors get the right disclosures and are protected and somebody is not misleading them and secondarily, they are participating just like the institutional investors and a lot of institutions buy into these spacs later during the target ipo at a preferred price. emily: sec chair gary gensler

with important stuff on what is to come. we will talk about the competitive landscape for new media with the ceo and founder of sub stack. pioneering a revolution. this is bloomberg. ♪ wanna help kids get their homework done?

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emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang in san francisco. let's get back to what we could call the abc's of markets. ed ludlow, educate us. ed: stocks are both lower on wednesday. class b shares owned largely by the managers of google who control the voting rights. over the last few weeks, class c shares that do not have voting rights are outperforming.

that's the price gap between the two. the class "a" shares with voting rights have closed about 4% lower. normally they have a premium of 1.3%. you put them side-by-side and you can see the yellow line. on that side of your screen. the class c shares. no voting rights have outperformed after moving in lockstep for such a long time. and, finally, the rest of the big tech stocks, both of them outperforming the whole basket. my question to the audience. if you're out there and you know the answer, why would you want the shares that do not give you the right to vote? tweet me. call me. email me. i want to know the answer. one theory is that alphabet, its shares buyback program is around the class c non-voting shares. get the audience to let me know.

emily: @edludlow. pretty straightforward twitter handle. thank you so much. if you have read a newsletter, it might've been published by substack. a subscription platform is aiming to create a better future for writers by giving them ownership for ideas and a direct relationship with their audience. for more, we come back with chris best, the founder and ceo of substack. he cofounded the mobile messenger app kick before this. it feels like in the last year, especially, we have seen so much more momentum as the -- puts that substack has become synonymous with the word newsletter. talk about the recent momentum you are seeing. what trends are you pulling our? -- pulling out? chris: we think that writers have one of the most important jobs in society, because their

work shapes how we think and how we see the world. and the social media has, which has made us angrier and dumber has also really hurt writers. it's made it's hard to do the work you think actually matters and to make money doing it. substack is about providing a new way for writers. we make it simple for them to go independent, own their own work and get paid directly by their subscribers. this frees writers to do great work, which is also important for the rest of us who depend on those writers to help shape how we see the world. emily: we are taking a look at some of the most popular substacks out there. some of these folks have legions of subscribers. however, facebook, twitter. they are making moves and trying to give creators the tools to do this themselves on their platforms.

how much of a threat is that to substack? chris: it's nice that they have noticed that this is happening. i can't help but feel that these are the companies that are created a lot of the problems that substack is designed to solve. i can't imagine their solution being the right one. emily: why not? chris: because, when you have a business model that's based on advertising, your whole goal is to keep people as addicted as possible to your product, maximize engagement at all costs. this dynamic, the fundamental logic that underlies so many of the social media giant, is at odds with writers. it means the company's interests are -- is against your interest as a writer. even if you make an imitation substack, it is never going to be able to let writers go independent. emily: some of the most popular substacks. my former colleague, eric

newcomer, great content. any justin one, -- just did one about the future of horror. how do you see these trends changing the competition between traditional and nontraditional media? chris: we don't really see ourselves as in competition with traditional media. we think traditional media is important. it has an important place in the media landscape. we are thinking that substack is a new kind of a thing that is most directly in competition with the engagement based social media world, which has been causing a lot of trouble for writers and for legacies. emily: a lot of these -- they don't have editors. they often get long. i often see great nuggets in their news that is not being reported in other media. how big a problem is that.

are they going as far as they would be going on a traditional platform? chris: we think the editors are quite valuable. some people hire editors. what matters on our platform as we are putting writers and reade rs in charge. if you are a writer, you decide, you to decide what you publish. it turns out they are able to do a lot more interesting and valuable work because they are not performing to make everything the -- story to try to go viral with every piece. they can create a lot more value for their subscribers and do better work. emily: then, of course, there is the issue of the money. i know this is about empowering writers to pursue their own ideas, but how much money are these writers making. on balance, are they making more money than they would make in a

traditional media job? chris: you would be surprised. people are paying about $5.00 or $10.00 a month. you only need a few thousand writers to make more money than any traditional media job provides for a writers. there are many writers on substack that are making more money on this new independent model than they ever could've hoped to earn out of a legacy publication. it is because they are creating value for their subscribers. emily: now, there are platforms that have tried to do this in different ways, and thinking about medium, do you consider medium competition anymore? is mediumbecoming a competition of the pet-- a thing of the past? chris: the biggest differentiator for substack on this front is the independence we afford writers. it means without when you are a writer on some stec substack, -- on substack, people are

subscribing to wrigley to you. when they pay for you, they are paying for you -- subscribing directly to you. when they pay for you, they are paying for you. they have power. it is also better for the reader, because they feel like they get to choose their heroes. they get to choose who they are inviting into their minds. i think substack is the first platform that really gets this right. emily: in four years, give me the view in the next four years. how do you imagine that substack would have changed the business? how much of my time, general readers time, will be spent on substack newsletter versus everything else? chris: one of the most exciting things about substack is not the famous writers who leaving their publications to go independent on substack -- although we are thrilled this can provide a new option for many of those people. the thing that is most exciting

is all the people who are finding massive success on substack as writers, who, but for this model, would not have been able to be writers. these are people who are academics, working in industry, lawyers who have gone to do other things, always felt like they had something to give the world as a writer, but never could make it work, never could make the money, never could have the independence until they found a model like this. i think about the next four years of substack, the thing i'm most excited about is this massive potential energy of smart people who have something to give the world as writers. but this will now unlock. that market, that value can be much greater than the legacy newspaper industry ever was. i think that is like an exciting potential to unlock. emily: all right. fascinating. we will watch for that potential to be unlock. ceo of substack, thanks much for

joining us. let's look to other stories we are following. warren buffett has resigned as a trustee of the bill melinda gates foundation. buffett says his goals are "100% in sync with the foundation." he's announced that he has reaches halfway mark in giving all of his berkshire hathaway shares to charity. the wait time for semiconductors has hit a record 18 weeks and continues to affect industries like cars and electronics. research shows that up by seven days from the previous month, the gap already the most since the firm began tracking data in 2017 and four weeks longer than 2018. coming up, are we about to see a two wheeler come back. we will speak to one company that smashed and bashed and deliberately crashed its scooter

to prepare it for the pandemic. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: tata, a smaller e.v. stock, jumped outperforming the broader market. the most american-made vehicle for 2021. it's investing $50 million in exchange for a 20% equity in a clean hydrogen project.

are you getting back to the office? e-scooters littered the streets after taking off in december of 2017, but covid-19 has -- has kept a key customer at home. now the industry is hoping to capitalize on the post-pandemic community wave. ed ludlow caught up with one company showcasing a scooter with some school new features. -- cool new features. ed: cities s are coming back. looking for eco-friendly ways to work. the electric scooter. e-scooters took off in the summer of 2017 but when the pandemic shut down, scooter sharing company suffered. >> there was a 90% decline in ridership across the board. ed: the few scooters were more than likely being used by

essential workers. they have a new scooter packed with tech for the post-pandemic world. most scooters buy off the shelf scooters but this is good or and built in-house. we took one for a ride. it has a more powerful 500 watt swappable battery pack, faster acceleration, and less environmental impact, and it can see the world around it. >> basically, cameras and sensors on the scooter. that goes through an a.i. algorithm and it says, am i on a sidewalk, am i parks correctly? ed: the technology is about enforcing good rider behavior which spin hopes will make more cities get on board. the company bashed and smashed the scooter to prove it safety. the main players have raised $3.5 billion since 2017,

according to bloomberg nef. spin was bought by ford in 2018, and it has grown to be the third largest scooter company in the u.s. the company is san francisco-based but it is launching its new scooter in sacramento. its biggest market is washington, d.c. will spin technology convince hesitant officials? >> naturally, it has the environmental credentials. i bet a scooter is going to get you a tick mark in that category. ed: spin is working on -- a three wheeler powered by software that can be moved out of harm's way remotely or to an area where it is more likely to get a customer. ed ludlow, bloomberg news, san francisco. emily: taking a ride on a spin

scooter. electronic parts has agreed to buy the maker of golf clash for $1.4 billion. e.a. acquiring it from its current owner, warner bros. games, which allows them to compete in world time. it's has 80 million downloadsd coming up, we will talk about the state of e-commerce and the secondary market from luxury, fashion, and home decor with julie wainwright, founder and ceo of the realreal, as they celebrate 10 years in business. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: ten years ago, julie wainwright founded her start up from her kitchen table. a decade later the realreal is a public come to with millions of shoppers and 16 retail locations. we welcome julie now, the founder and ceo of the realreal, on ten years. congratulations. i remember the stories about the u-haul. now that we are here, does it surprise you how far this company has come, and how much it has evolved? what do you see as its biggest accomplishment? julie: i didn't expect us to change the culture, to be a leading influencer on

sustainability, to be a leader and a driver of the economy. when you think about creating a business and having this other compounding impact, that is actually something i did not plan out and it is something i, the whole company is product. emily: i shop on the realreal. i love the things there that were left by someone else or they may be one-of-a-kind. but there is also this ride of fast fashion, happening at the same time the circular economy is becoming more compelling. how do you think that is shaking out? julie: our data shows that our customers that start really buying retail move out of fast fashion. they are mainly not -- maybe not moving completely out, but they are spending more money on resale and primarily because they becoming aware of the environmental impact of the landfills filling up with, i think it's one truckload every second of fashion going into a landfill. emily: you have women's, men's,

kids, fine art. you have paid out to be on -- $2 billion in commissions. 'why do you see the next -- the biggest area of growth over the next 10 years? julie: we have such a long way to go. as of last month, less than half of our new consignors, 45%, never have consigned before. so, when you look at where we are in the u.s., getting people to think about consigning, we're at the beginning. and getting people to realize the positive environmental impact of a circular economy. and we're only in the u.s. so, certainly, we have the ability to expand worldwide. but right now we have a long way to go here. emily: i am so you are here in person because you were literally one of the last in person interviews i did before the pandemic. it was the opening of the store, the realreal store in san francisco. days later, the world was on

lockdown. and the pandemic was a challenging time for retail in general. how did you weather that? are you over those challenges today? one of the biggest issues was supply. the demand was there. people wanted to buy. but getting them the stuff they wanted was hard. julie: you know we are not primarily retail, but you are right. three days later, after opening the store, we had to shut it down. and, when you think of new york, the state of new york, the city of manhattan and the state of california were really shut down. california very quickly. we could not get product. so, last year at this time, and really q2, we went from in q1, we were heading 40% above a year ago. we went down 45%. we had an 85 point swing in our business. that was then.

i'm happy to stay that's -- to say that starting in q1, our business started accelerating. and in q2, we published the numbers through may, and we are about -- are up about 55% versus a year ago. we feel pretty good. 106% versus a year ago. so, everything is on the rise. it feels, knock on wood. things are getting back to normal. you are my last in-person interview, and you're my first in person universe. -- in person interview. emily: your are about to open a store friday in atlanta. julie: we just had a big company meeting and i said my short-term goal is $5 billion in five years, which may be not be aggressive enough. we really are, want to keep planning the sustainability, changing peoples both shopping

and consigning habits, and be a worldwide company. we have a long way to go. ten years went by so quickly. it is almost a blink of a nikon and less you look at the pictures 10 years ago. -- it was almost a blink of an eye, unless you look at the pictures 10 years ago. emily: how much do you see the balance between physical retail and e-commerce? there is still some desire to touch and feel things in person. julie: our stores have done phenomenally well both and generating demand but supply. our challenge is to get more supply. some people are just much more comfortable dropping off at a store. our plan is to get 13 stores open this year. we are on track for that. 12 in atlanta. one more in the bay area. what does that mean for supply and demand? the stores open during

covid got to breakevens very quickly. on an incremental basis. we are coming out of covid. so, we have always been primarily -- when i say primarily, 95% an online business. to read the data and follow the signs. emily: are we going to see more partnerships like gucci? julie: i am sure you will. one of the fun things we did during covid. we worked with some very important companies to up cycle. we took their damaged goods that they could not resell, worked with another designer to reimagine those goods, and that actually has phenomenal potential. it sold through incredible quickly. so, in that, i think we had almost 16 different designers we worked with. so, there's multiple ways we can work with them to reduce waste. emily: we'll be watching for more of those potential

partnerships. julie wainwright, ceo of the realreal, great to have you on a big day. we'll be looking out for the story in hotlanta. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang. this is bloomberg. ♪

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