>> bloomberg television -- >> from the heart of where innovation and news collide, this is "bloomberg technology." emily: coming up in the next hour, chairs of the senate subcommittee. senator klobuchar makes her case against some of the biggest tech giants of our time.

monopolies, antitrust and more in our one-on-one interview. plus, space is amazon's next big push. the market size of cloud computing projects is estimated at hundreds of millions of dollars. and, a software design company worth tens of millions of dollars. all the stories in a moment. first, bipartisan support out of washington where president biden announced a deal on a $579 billion infrastructure plan he says is now moving forward. >> we will see what happens in the budget process. if we get some compromise there and if we can't, if we can attract emma kratz to a position.

-- attract democrats to a position. emily: we will see how it plays out in the markets. >> the s&p 500 and nasdaq slight outperformance of technology shares. a weaker dollar. in terms of the names catching a bid, companies on the move are those that would benefit from the economic reopening and infrastructure spending. caterpillar is up for the most since mid-march. this is a company that is the biggest maker of infrastructure equipment in the world. also gaining, tesla. strong over the last three sessions. its highest level in the next several months. green across the board for cryptocurrencies. emily: meantime, the house on

day two of the lengthy debate over legislation to challenge big tech. the question now, what will the senate to -- do? i sat down with senator klobuchar to ask about the reality of getting new legislation passed and what she sees that is so problematic about some of the world's most innovative companies. sen. klobuchar: we have some great products out there and no one wants to get rid of them, whether it is fitbit, iphones, getting ready to order your groceries online. let's start with that. these companies have done very well. i am pleased they have been successful and employed a bunch of americans. at the same time, our country has rejuvenated capitalism. we have said these are good products like with at&t, but at some point if there is no competition, these companies are

allowed to become these monopolistic dominant providers. in the case of at&t, no one wanted to destroy at&t. they just wanted to make sure the competitors can develop like at the time mci. we got the market to go from one cell phone to where we are today. i think we need to look at this the same way. you have situations where you have gateway companies that dominate so they can literally tell people who want to advertise on them in the case of google or facebook i'm sorry, or going to charge you for that. we just had a big story on the app store and found out that they are charging spotify or match.com 30% of the revenue that comes in, but they don't charge it to other big companies. they get to pick. i don't think that's how a

competitive marketplace works. i look at it as, i love capitalism but i always believe you need to put guards around it when it comes to ensuring capitalist work. i'm not alone in this. adam smith, the godfather of capitalism and theory related to economics that our founding fathers subscribe to, he says the same thing. yes, we want to have capitalism but always watch out for what he called the standing armies of monopolies. that's what we have the sherman act, the clayton act, and we need to be as sophisticated as the companies into the ceos that run them when it comes to fostering new entrants in the market. emily: when you look at the companies, do you see monopolies? where do you see the best case for regulatory action or breakup? sen. klobuchar: everything has to be on the table.

it's not just tech. you see it in pharma and the egg industry. you look at each industry as it is. in this case, there were a bunch of decisions made over the years that allowed for things like facebook buying whatsapp and instagram. when we look at it and we read mark zuckerberg's e males where he said we would rather by the compete, basic competitors could be disruptive to us then goes on and buys them. tech is supposed to be about disruption. in a way, economic capitalism is about disruption because you get new market entrants. that's why you have to change the standards i believe for looking at mergers going forward. give the money, invest in enforcers. then, look back at some of these industries. not all of them, but look at the

ones where you see gatekeepers are highly concentrated and yes, ray cups investiture -- breakups divestiture should always be on the table. that the things we agreed to in the past are actually being enforced and the whole idea is not meant to publish success. it's to make sure we have more success in the future. emily: your antitrust approach would strengthen antitrust legislation across industries. the house is taking a more specific approach targeted at a handful of the tech companies we are talking about. you said you plan to introduce smaller bills as well. you introduce a companion bill to the other proposals? sen. klobuchar: yes we are looking at all of those and they have already put forth companion bills to some of my proposals including increasing the merger fees which has passed through the committee.

we expect that it will pass through the house because it is already past through the senate. that is over a hundred million dollars to take on the biggest companies the world has ever known. i am seriously in discussion with republicans about a number of their proposals. think you will see companion bills. they may not be the same, but similar. i think we also need to look at other industries, as well. given that we are a small group works on this oath and republicans, we don't believe there is a monopoly on good ideas when we are dealing with monopolies. we have been very good about trying to work together on this and finding where we have common ground. that means tech specific bills, but also broader bills. emily: the white house has said

the president is encouraged by the bipartisan work on these issues. republicans and democrats seem to want action for different reasons. how far does that bipartisanship go? where could that break down? sen. klobuchar: they are going to have to look at all of the bills and make decisions. some of them are coming at tech from a different place than i am. i don't agree that there is some kind of bias politically with tech. i have been very impressed at some of our hearings that that's not what they had been emphasizing. amazon and google were not the subject, it's more the monopolies. i am hoping we can come together on this instead of going off on tangents and the arguments for taking this on. i think the proof is in the pudding.

several bipartisan bills in the house, a partisan work has already past in the senate with increasing the fees on all mergers. bipartisan work taking on newspapers and news organizations to combine their negotiating power against tech given that we have seen closures of newspapers at an alarming rate breaking down the entire investigative process at the local level that we need to maintain a democracy. that is bipartisan in both houses. i lead the one in the senate with senator kennedy. there is a lot of bipartisan work going on. then you have the biden administration putting in people. i think all of that bodes well for moving ahead on this both branches of government. >> this revelation from pro public at that peter thiel accumulated $5 billion in an ira

that was named after a senator to create a retirement account for the middle class. this is in part an investment in facebook. what is your level of outrage on this and this congress need to act? sen. klobuchar: in general, i will take it even outside of that, there are too many people that have been using things that are maybe well meant to make a lot of money at the expense of other people. it's just not there. that's why as a presidential candidate and as a senator, i have advocated and will continue to advocate for changes to the tax code. i disagree that the corporate rate should go down to 21%. there were some of us in the middle saying if you're going to go down, at least go to 26%. you have outrageous situations with carried interest and with

other parts of the tax code that have allowed the wealthy to get wealthier. you lose respect for the government when your average citizen, a taxpayer, we don't want the breakdown of trust. we lose the money that we should be bringing into pay for important services then, to make matters worse, they have so much lobbying power and people basically fall prey to their lobbying efforts. it is all of that synergy and think the time has come to put the truth out there and i'm glad that president biden has been willing to talk about changing elements of the tax code that are unfair. the use of the roth ira, the roth provisions in this way to me is just one more example of that. emily: my exclusive interview with senator klobuchar. coming, space gets smart. how amazon web services is

providing earth to space services. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ emily: it's not only rockets powering the space race with jeff bezos planning to take off on blue origins first craft to carry passengers. joining me now is the aws director of aerospace and satellite solutions.

thank you for joining us. a lot of people don't realize aws's role in space and the space cloud. talk to us about the customers you are working with and the missions you are helping to carry out. >> thank you so much for having us here on bloomberg technology. it is really interesting. space is at an inflection point. it's an exciting time to be a part of this industry. we are seeing epic and dynamic change and rapid growth including growth of all of the ways we are using space data around the world. from climate control to disaster response and humanitarian, economics, everything in between. the future of space is data-driven. it's about collecting data. more dated than we have ever had before from space. it's about processing, managing, distributing data. those are the things that we are good at. doing all of that at scope and

scale with speed and in a cost-effective manner. that resonates with our customers. it's about data management and data processing. emily: i talked to bill gates and he says it's great that jeff bezos and elon musk are exploring space but i am concentrated on making earth better. what we get out of exploring the great beyond? >> we are also focused on ways that we can use space to make life better here on earth. we are working with the company here today. fireball is using space data and advanced cloud capabilities to identify wildfire breakouts in areas than three minutes of ignition. think about environmental management when you can tell within minutes when a fire breaks out. before it gets out of control.

those are things we are seeing today. our space accelerator, what is interesting is we put out a call to space startups around the globe. we were looking for companies that had innovative ideas about how to solve big problems. what we were looking for is companies that had big problems in the space industry that they wanted to tackle and had an appreciation of how the cloud can help do that. satellite view is a company out of the u.k. that is tackling climate change. they are using aws and the cloud in space to monitor emissions from places on earth to manage climate change. emily: amazon's project has been competing with spacex star link for these low orbit satellites that are supposedly going to improve broadband and internet access here on earth. what is the vision for project

kuiper given that the satellites have yet to launch? >> that's an interesting mission. it is a slightly different part of the amazon family. the mission is to provide global rod band capability around the world to disadvantaged users in low-earth orbit. kuiper is one of our customers. we are helping them so -- solve problems here on earth. emily: fascinating to hear what you guys are working on and how the space out is growing. thank you so much for joining us. coming up during the age of direct listings, traditional ipo. we will talk to a ceo. this is bloomberg.

♪

emily: thank you for joining us. we have seen a lot of direct listings. why take the traditional ipo route now? >> we were going after $50 billion market and we wanted to raise capital as part of becoming a public company to go after the opportunity. this is the tried and true way to do that. it made sense for us and we were happy with the outcome. >> you have developed streaming technology that helps process massive amounts of data online. this was critical during the pandemic, but now that the world is coming out of lockdown, people are going back to work.

will we need that kind of technology as much? >> yes, absolutely. no company in the world is looking at the digital side of the business inking this isn't so important. even with people going into in-person experiences, if you look at retail or other businesses, the digital and in person is blending. there's a whole software side of businesses that demand real-time access to data, real-time processing and that's what this is all about. emily: speaking of this whole era of data immersion, we have seen a rise in cyberattacks. increasing severity of the cyberattacks. how big of a threat is that and what are you doing to secure your customers in this ever evolving world? >> it's a huge problem. one of the things that drives customers to want to work with us is their starting to think about how to use data in a

structured way so it can be secured so they can analyze how it flows between different stubs. that is a big advantage of us is that it makes the flow of data more structured, more secure. emily: where do you see the most room for growth given that the threat landscape is constantly changing. needs are constantly changing and the whole remote work situation is still a massive experiment? >> this is a new category that is just emerging. we think there is a $50 billion opportunity and think this can grow into a massive dated -- data platforming. we are still in the very early days of that confluent. we have built a business we are very space i did about. emily: what's next? what's the 10 year plan? >> like i said, the world of

data has been all about storage. these piles of data sitting in databases and filesystems. now, data is helping to run businesses. it is helping to deliver customer experiences, the vision that we have is that each of these companies is going to be a central nervous system that ties it together in real time and lets companies act on that and be smarter, more intelligent and how they build their businesses. we think it's a huge opportunity. that's what we're trying to make true. emily: it's a really interesting time to become a public company. how do you not get distracted by those dynamics given that now that you are a public company, there are many more factors that you can't control? >> that's very true. one of the things i always say to the team is for our company

to be great over time, you have to execute in the short term and over the long-term. you have to keep your eye on both. stock price goes up and down every day. there's a ton of things we have to get done, but we also have to plot a longer path toward what we're trying to make true in the world and it's hard to do both of those things at the same time. any company that does something great has to do that so that's the challenge for us. emily: the ceo of confluent, thank you so much. coming up, microsoft windows adding a big upgrade. all the new features and why gaming and cybersecurity are top of mind. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪

wanna help kids get their homework done?

well, an internet connection's a good start. but kids also need computers. and sometimes the hardest thing about homework is finding a place to do it. so why not hook community centers up with wifi? for kids like us, and all the amazing things we're gonna learn. over the next 10 years, comcast is committing $1 billion to reach 50 million low-income americans with the tools and resources they need to be ready for anything. i hope you're ready. 'cause we are.

♪ emily: welcome back. let's get back to the markets. >> this is a florida-based company that struck a deal with volvo for its next generation of electric vehicle suv. at one point it was up 12.8%. it's fascinating the details. basically, this electric suv

coming from volvo in 2022. at first, just boosting additional safety features. later, volvo plans a highway pilot. does that sound familiar? basically self-driving software that will combine the sensors volvo software. you might remember the name. we broke a story a few weeks ago about how tesla was testing this to benchmark its own self-driving system which is very camera centric. obviously, a lot of players in the space taking different approaches. over the last few years up until the end of 2020, the amount of dealmaking in the autonomous space is growing. this also includes the companies working on some of the components including lidar.

it's definitely a space to watch going forward. emily: windows is getting a big upgrade. windows has announced windows 11 aimed at improving the remote work and gaming experience along with security features. >> today marks a major milestone in the history of windows. it's the beginning of a new generation. i am excited by what we have shown you today and how we are we imagining everything from the operating system itself to the browser to the store and feed. emily: joining me now is a microsoft representative. good to have you back on the show. white the redesign? what is driving this? >> a big part of what we are trying to do is put people at the center of the entire experience to help them inspire their creativity. a big part of what we felt like

over the last year we have learned the pc has never been more essential in our lives and this is designed to do that with a new simple fight experience. hope you can -- connect to the people you care about. ultimately get more apps, games, entertainment to accomplish the things you want. emily: we know you have been proponents of remote or hybrid work. how will this improve the remote work experience? >> a couple of things. number one, we have done a bunch of work to create a new capability so you can do the deal call, chat, text message from the desktop. that lets you work remotely or in person in a more robust way. secondly, when you dock and undock between computers and big screens, it keeps all of your layouts together.

through cloud power and ai, we can keep your files wherever you go. any time you sit down and login, all of your data is right there. emily: what are the new security features? microsoft itself has been targeted. how does this make customers more secure? parks we pushed to have a much more secure system and we go from the chip on your pc all the way to the cloud. we have raised the baseline security mechanisms and windows to protect so that we can protect your data, your privacy in ways that we have not been able to do before. it goes much farther. this is the most secure windows we have ever released. emily: there's a lot of scrutiny on big tech right now. i just interviewed senator klobuchar. we you are doing things like bundling teams into windows, you are making changes to the app store.

are you thinking about the rising scrutiny from washington as you make these changes to make sure that you don't draw the attention of regulators? >> yes, we are always thinking about what is the role of technology in the world. what role do we as a company plate. we think there are a lot of important issues we need to be a leader on. whether that's responsible ai or the role of innovation. are we creating enough platforms and opportunities for people to come and create. with windows, we have always tried to do that. we believe we are putting forth one of the most open platforms for development. with windows 11, we are making a big step form -- stepped forward with new improvements. with the store, anyone can come with their own commerce engine and sell within our store. you keep all of the revenue. that is distinct from other platforms.

do the same thing with how we are working with teams. the ability to text message and android phone or ios phone but both. that will allow any apps to run on the platform. we want them to be on the platform, we want them to run great. we will do everything we can to make sure we have the most open platform for developers and creators. emily: if i am a gamer, why should i be excited? >> the pc has always been the home to gaming. there's about your performance improvements, games load faster, the world in the games you play or more rich. with game pass, you will get over 100 games that you can play with one subscription. give it like netflix for gaming. we will put that on the pc as well. emily: we will be watching for the big upgrade to windows. thank you.

meantime, google has pushed out its timeline to remove cookies and its chrome browser. it pledged to get rid of cookies last year but in a blog post, they said cookies will now be phased out. this is helped create an enormous industry of web advertising. it also created widespread privacy concerns. the news provided some short-term relief for tech companies that use the data to sell ads online. coming up, what is cigna? it is the fast-growing software company shaking up the world of design. we will talk to the cofounder and ceo next. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ emily: >> i have exciting news for you today. we have announced the launch of a news mailer. early subscribers can see their

questions and my answers in the newsletter. i look forward to all of you signing up and me interacting with you online. emily: you will know you don't want to miss that. design has become an ever more important part of user experience. figma has been disrupting the world of creative collaboration just raised new funding. it's five times more than what it was worth last year. i want to bring in the cofounder and ceo. great to have you with us. figma has been disrupting the world of design. i am curious what makes it so special? what makes it stand out from competitors like adobe which does many things but also is trying to do what you do? >> designers have been on a tear

the last decade. we are just on the start of that. it's amazing to see the way that as we have cloud services, app stores, everyone is able to stream software better. they care about can you make something really well-designed? if you can, great. if not, you might losing business. people want to be involved in the design process. we are a design platform that lets you collaborate with designers and also get more involved in design. our poor product makes it so you can create things like interfaces and we also just launched a digital whiteboard tool. emily: it's not just the user interface design. people are using it for interior design and plan weddings. >> my wife and i planned our wedding on figma.

we are seeing everything from brainstorm and ideation to creating cities together all the way to people experimenting with , went slack went down, people started chatting in figma. anything you can imagine, it can be done there. we'll do it which is great to see. emily: given the chatting that is happening, the collaborating that is happening, do you see yourself taking on a company like slack in other ways? >> not at all. we are focused on creativity, visual communication. how to make design successful to everyone. so everyone can be involved in the design process. especially over the last year, we have gone from a physical economy to a digital economy. it's important that everyone can access the digital economy. how do we make it so everyone

can join and? emily: five times as much as last year, why is it worth? >> it has been a crazy year. we are fortunate the team has been working super hard. we have had a lot of lunches, traction. it has been a hard year for many and i am thankful for the progress we have made. emily: the pandemic really accelerated the digital transformation and made so many people realize the need for tools to collaborate remotely. are we going to need those tools as the world goes back to work as we come back from locked down and we are doing a lot of different things? >> we're going back into a hybrid world. i don't think that people are going back into offices. the ones that do will often have employees at the office some days and other days not. whether you are remote, hybrid, in person, we make tools that will work for you.

we are trying to help people to be more effective in general. emily: you dropped out of school to start the company. what are the things that you have learned along the way? what advice do you have to impart to people who are thinking of doing the same thing? >> i'm a little biased, but i have had an amazing time. even when things were hard, it was worth it. the amount you get to grow and build is incredible. the advice going bass your question, if i was to give someone that is starting off today, i was fortunate with my fellowship to have space to work and innovate. what the fellowship taught me was to think big and swing for the fences rather than thinking small and local. it's tempting because you think that something small will be easier than the big thing. it turns out they can both be just as hard with a lot more

impact on the large thing. emily: peter thiel is controversial. what did you learn from him? tell us about it. >> there are hundreds of fellows now. i don't know him super well, but i was thankful for the time i spent with him and i am thankful for the program. i don't have any lessons. emily: talk to us about the big vision. the ambition is bigger. where do you see the biggest opportunities for growth? >> making design accessible to all, we are excited to take people from brainstorming and ideation all the way to designing, create a design system, protecting the ideas -- prototyping the ideas, all the way to code and production. if we can get the entire cycle,

then everybody can spend the design cycle inside of figma. we will make it so you aren't created -- inhibited in the creative process. emily: a lot of the collaboration is happening on desktops and laptops. how much of the plan is mobile? >> we just launched on android and iphone. we are hoping to do more mobile in the future. stay tuned. emily: what makes that difficult? it's a hard problem porting something from your desktop to your phone. >> it's interesting to think about how do you make it so that when you're going from one platform to another, you are making it native to that platform and not just taking the same metaphors and moving them over. that's why we don't rush these things. most designers are at their desks most of the time. perhaps in a new the -- in

another world you will be at the beach. emily: that was my next question because so many companies are trying to figure out the remote work plan and it's scary. ceo's people back in the office. workers are rebelling. how are you balancing that and what is your plan for figma getting back to work in the office? >> about a year ago, we had a blog post that outlined our strategy. at that is to be a hybrid model to make it so you are able to choose to be the hub or remote. if you are at a hub, you are committed to going to the office two days per week. you have more conduct -- connections and we were able to connect across teams more. if you are remote, that's great. we can only do it in some areas not around the world but we do it constantly in the united states right now. emily: if you're thinking about

dropping out of college, should you do it? >> it's dependent on everybody situation. i think if you have an idea and you are excited to pursue it, it could be a great way to learn is to go pursue it and college will be there later. emily: cofounder and ceo of figma. thank you so much. youtube trying to grab a larger slice of the e-commerce market. the platform has been hosting a livestream shopping event. where viewers can buy products directly. google has also bolstered online retail ambitions by deepening its partnership with shop a fight. snape has struck a deal with a top record label. the agreement will give users access to thousands of songs including tracks from taylor swift and drake. they can be used in messages and post. it can also share links from their streaming service of choice. speaking of peter thiel, the billionaire amassed $5 billion

and his roth ira account. we will talk about how the paypal cofounder legally skipped out on paying taxes on all of those gains. shares of amd gaining. this is bloomberg.

♪

emily: the cryptocurrency exchange trying to make the industry more sustainable. gemini trust purchased $4 million and credit to offset the bitcoin it holds. they will try to do this until only renewable energy is used. peter thiel the cofounder of paypal accumulated nearly $5 billion in his roth ira. raising concerns and questions about what kind of regulation should come from the irs. our personal-finance reporter has been following the story. how did peter thiel manage to do this and was it illegal? >> that's a good question. pro public at has a trove of tax documents. what they say has happened is that peter thiel took almost 2

million shares of paypal in the late 90's and put it into a roth ira. the background on roth ira, it's different from traditional. what you do with that is you take pretax dollars, you put them in then any investment gains are tax-free for the rest of your life. if you are able to get money in their. there are guidelines and barriers where back in the 90's you were only able to contribute $2000 per year to a roth ira and there were income limits so only middle-class people could do it. he was able to do was take the shares, it was less than $2000 worth, but they were 2 million and they were only valued at a 10th of a cent each. within a year, they were worth millions. he was able to turn the paypal fortune into investments in facebook which he also made through the roth ira.

now he has $5 billion according to pro public in the account. >> i asked senator klobuchar about this earlier. she called this and other ways the wealthy abuse the tax code to get wealthier outrageous. what can or will the irs do about this? >> part of the issue is worth the shares that he put in the ira in the 90's, was he valuing them correctly or was paypal valuing them correctly at the time? that is open to question. the problem is the irs doesn't have the resources to go in and look at all of these transactions and fight with rich people who have very expensive lawyers over these valuations. you remember in the 90's, there were tens of people in silicon valley who were starting tech companies putting those shares into roth iras as well. a lot of those ended up being worthless.

one issue is the funding irs and whether we have cops on the beat keeping an eye on these transactions. the other thing that is being discussed is maybe we need to have a size limit on roth iras. they are supposed to be for middle-class people. the chair of the senate finance committee has proposed in the past capping the size of them at $5 million. he says based on this story, he is planning to revisit that proposal. and possibly it could be included in tax reform that passes this year. emily: it makes you wonder how many other tech billionaires might have billion stashed away in roth iras. i'm sure folks are were -- working on during that out. thank you so much. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. tune in tomorrow. we will be joined tomorrow with

the ceo of microstrategy. this is bloomberg. ♪

(announcer) back pain hurts, and it's frustrating. you can spend thousands on drugs, doctors, devices, and mattresses, and still not get relief. now there's aerotrainer by golo, the ergonomically correct exercise breakthrough that cradles your body so you can stretch and strengthen your core, relieve back pain, and tone your entire body. since i've been using the aerotrainer, my back pain is gone. when you're stretching your lower back on there, there is no better feeling. (announcer) do pelvic tilts for perfect abs and to strengthen your back. do planks for maximum core and total body conditioning. (woman) aerotrainer makes me want to work out. look at me, it works 100%. (announcer) think it'll break on you? think again! even a jeep can't burst it. give the aerotrainer a shot. pain and stress is the only thing you have to lose. get it and get it now. your body will thank you. (announcer) find out more at aerotrainer.com. that's aerotrainer.com.

♪ haidi: good morning. >> we are counting down to asia's major market opens. shery: the top stories this hour. u.s. stocks hit a record high as president biden's infrastructure plan boosts sentiment. he says the deal will create millions of jobs.