caroline: from bloomberg world headquarters in new york, i'm caroline hyde. joe: i'm joe weisenthal. romaine: i'm robot -- romaine bostick. down on the day. joe: the question is, "what'd you miss?" caroline: the deadly covid-19 variant, causing markets to drop? and what we talked about yesterday, putting the brakes on

reflation trade. and it's not just the u.s.. a major chinese company lost $15 million as they were slammed by shareholder suits and underwriting. wall street tightens all had to defend themselves there. they were pretty bullish on investing in china, but we can't go a day of course without what we love best, cryptic's. we hear from the founder of the so-called soundcloud, built on the theory of network. don't miss it but apparently, joe, what you might have missed his technical. we have been talking about this all day. joe: technicals is the answer to everything when you don't know the answer to anything. therefore the answer must be technicals. we have seen moves and plays with all kinds of stuff going on. romaine: you aren't going to claim that chart? joe: looks like a bunch of high data plays.

[laughter] caroline: we'll see what they are on the left. joe: for more, let's bring in our cross asset reporter. is it all technical driven? >> adam think so. caroline: mobile sellers? [laughter] >> might've been. i think this move has been in play for months and is accelerating now. looking at the chart of the 10 year yield, it peaked at the end of march and then came down. the unwinding of reflation has been in play for a few months, just not by the same margins you are seeing right now. the most recent game this weekend and i'm of the opinion, i think i'm one of the very few who say this, a contrarian, that's my middle name, actually, i think it is coming from the oil market. you are still in a limbo within opec agreement that hasn't come

through and it could have two very extreme upside down scenarios. romaine: i mean, commodities have been revealed as economic conditions in the past and we saw a bit of a pause in the rally. i'm curious, when you talk about the technical aspects of the pullback we have seen in bonds and bond yields, there was a sense here that a lot of people were anticipating yields to go higher, we were on our way to 2% and when that didn't happen and worked against them, a lot of people were really trying to cover their shorts. taylor: absolutely -- >> absolutely and there is nothing better than people seeing the trade to buy it. when you see this much pressure coming out of treasuries, this much money, that was the trade these last five months.

holding on a second, and overdone trade. romaine: and we saw that paper. caroline: this is what all the retail traders are up to now, squeezing the hell out of u.s. treasuries. [laughter] caroline: the small fries and the big bucks now. falling out of bed, no volume? stocks down? >> i can't put it into the macro narrative, but you have to keep in mind here that retail traders are not active every single day and we are in a summer lull. the kind of like volume we were supposed to be seeing in the regular market is in tailstock now. -- in retail stocks now. romaine:+çp5 these were mythical people bringing them down, the updates. where do they actually get the money to go on vacation? [laughter] joe: taking a loan out against

amc shares. >> it's all that retail money. romaine: prop traders, exploiting. caroline: always great with rita gupta. coming up, we speak on china from the octahedral and capital. we will talk at all, here on bloomberg. -- it all, here on bloomberg. ♪

romaine: all right, today we are focused on the turbulence in the markets. we talked about the bond market but we are also seeing turbulent -- turbulence over dd, chinese companies and fitness apps, putting off their ipo with another podcasting platform, shocking you, a chinese podcasting platform that you are not on, also pulling the ipo as well. joe: i think i'm a huge hit on that platform. but you mentioned, i have never seen an ipo chart like this. it just came public a few days ago and it's already getting clobbered thanks to the clock -- crackdown on regulators on the app mystically. you ever see a chart like this? caroline: not on the regular. maybe a crypto. joe: maybe a crypto.

joining us with more on this, the founder of octahedral capital. you have been a consistent bowl on chinese tech, whether it's a big company or one of the more narrow focused. does something like this, where a company goes public and days later we get this crackdown, plus other things, plus potential changes, does it make you think, does it change your view at all about the tech investing opportunities in china? >> joe, thank you for having me. listen, it's all about the fact and the facts don't prove -- the facts and the facts don't prove to be warm and fuzzy right now. we are still very bullish on the fundamental chinese consumer but we have come to the conclusion that not everything is made equal. what's happening in my opinion

is it's a bit of a stock goes green. if you could start distinguishing around companies that have structural issues like the ones you have right now, it's a couple of other more narrow areas, like education. because the entire world is now covered by china and there's a lot of tension in those companies there, based on our conversation. if we could correctly identify the winners and the losers, this may actually be a phenomenal time to invest in china again on a longer term horizon. caroline: ram, are the winners and losers going to be dictated by the government your perspective? ram: this was a real surprise, a doozy. nobody expected this. we didn't expect that, for sure.

the 4% regulation has been an ongoing process for 2.5 years now. as we all know, when the event hits, stocks are never priced in . again, it's a new regime and we have to recognize the new regime . over the last 15 years, chinese companies have taken advantage of the expertise and the capital and now there is this a leaf that china is relatively self-sufficient and they want to have destiny in their own hands. i think the way to think about normal,:dpi be much morea data sharing back to the government. companies will have to kiss the ring in many ways. they will have to be positive on their actions around people in focus on the productivity of the country, natural strength and well-being of tumors. if you can do those things and you have the resources to not be

in the eye, and if you don't and you behave badly, you will be regulated and your profit financials will be curtailed, the nerve -- the new normal. romaine: talking about self-sufficiency here, part of the reason we were seeing these ipos was the idea that a lot of these companies needed the capital to expand and there was a reason they were looking outside china. i'm curious if that means that capital is still there. we have a sense that they will be able to find it in china, hong kong, and the asia region? ram: there's plenty of access to china and even if we don't get it in the adr market in the u.s., many of us are set up for hong kong. a lot of it is finding the capital, in my opinion, and it's a function of how they find it. do we have to keep capital in hong kong, or will it be easier?

if this is just a frictionless way to purchase a chinese company, my sense is that the capital will still find its way into chinese companies. it's about how much control the chinese government wants to have over its capital. joe: obviously, you know, this concerns what big companies can do with data and whether the interests of large companies are in line with the beijing party. you hear rumblings about it there. it's always rumblings when he filed against the big company. the actions are not as extreme or fast, but we know the lytic landscape has changed. is there any concern of a further escalation of that in the u.s.? or is it just going to be a lot of sort of lawsuits and stuff that doesn't go anywhere?

ram: it's tough to say what's going to happen in the u.s. there will likely be a lot more noise. basically my conclusion is to be pragmatic, that all of this reflects in lower monthlies and if you are an investor in chinese companies or larger companies that4) could be in the political view of antitrust, we are assuming for now that we will have a much more sober entry price. but if this is how you view that in the longer term, the big -- business fundamentals are ok and you make good ir under sober expectations a few years out, i think it's good to invest in the businesses right now, even in china. and we are taking advantage of it.

caroline: in terms of how, after the whisperings that public offerings will be delayed, how do you play getting into china? ram: well, on the private market, as long as we have some belief that the company will listen to hong kong within a reasonable amount of time, typically one year to three years, we can just invest in those companies again. so, that's trivial. you can do that. the challenge on the market are the stocks are fundamentally cheap, no arguments there, but the question is whether this is cloud clear. it is solely driven by sentiment changes and for the average portfolio manager, i can see why no one wants to touch china right now. it's a bit toxic.

i think china might be get money for the foreseeable future. until this cloud clears and fundamentals come back, people moving into next year, companies keep x tuning quarter over quarter for the next few quarters and then the positives come back. now, i have been to china at many points in my career and each china is different. that's the difference with every china. it's different and we just have to figure out when the cloud passes. romaine: great stuff, really appreciate your perspective there, hearing from you, ram parameswaran. you can hear more from him on the recent episode of the outlaws podcast on spotify and whatever that one is that they make for iphone. this is bloomberg. ♪

romaine: all right, welcome back to "what'd you miss?" we have been talking about the volatility in meat stocks, chinese tech stocks, the bond market, but this wouldn't be "what'd you miss?" if we didn't talk about the volatility in crypto. joe: it's not just bitcoin, a theory him had an incredible year but has also back a lot. so, what's being built there? interesting question. here to describe -- discuss more is the cofounder of the streaming service there, as well as sonali. sonali: i'm wondering pie theory him is allowing you to build your business in a way that's any different from soundcloud or another music streaming service.

>> fantastic question. we are a digital music streaming service that connects fans directly with artists and new music and the direct piece of that is really the key whereby being decentralized, owned and operated by the very users that contribute all the content, audiences are able to kind of create direct engagement, which has never been possible without into you -- intermediaries sitting in between. romaine: when we talk about the interconnectedness here, being decentralized from traditional streaming platforms, explain to me how it's better for the artist and the end user. romaine: yeah, yeah, from the artist perspective they own the relationship -- >> yeah, yeah, from the artist perspective they can find their fans.

whether they are going off the track or things like that, a lot of the analytics that i think we take for granted in traditional tech have not made their way into music for a variety of reasons. it's really owning the relationship. from the fan side they get to hear cool, new exclusive music as a result and artists are using it to test new content to see what is via being with their fan base before they release it more broadly. they can release works in progress to their fans. it has been really exciting to see all the creative, cool new things people come up with. joe: i still don't think that i quite understand the role that a token or a coin plays in this. there are sites like and camp or even the old myspace where they had relationships with fans, saw their own analytics, maybe see

something. tiktok is obviously a place where musicians emerge out of. what does the introduction of a token, a price element, improve the music experience? >> what it really means in terms of function here at the network, people do run nodes that post content, things like a server, it grants access to futures on the network so that artists can use the token to get access to means of distribution, things like that. it actuallyi-q governs the netwk so the folks who built it were able to vote on any and all changes made and putting those things together, what it starts to look like is the right to own and control this means of distribution. right? what it more broadly does is it gives that power to the community that makes the network valuable. right?

they are able to pay the users uploading content, engaging with things, doing all of the things that make a marketplace valuable , with ownership and control of the underlying system. caroline: to joe's point -- sonali: to joe's point, do you think that your users and artists are afraid of what the volatility looks like? >> that's a great question. for the artists i don't think they see it as monetization. what the token is meant to represent his control of the network. right? they see this as a means of kind of gaining more agency and power over their means of distribution. right? so they are able to game out the control and the ability to access the features, all of those things. they can charge users directly

for content, things like that. these are separate ways to monetize content, undermining the tokens. sonali: you are a newer, younger technology company and i'm wondering, by you using this new model of wall street, of financial services, when it comes to a traditional ipo or raising money through traditional capital markets, is that something you would still consider? >> that's a great question. we have been backed by a lot of the traditional guard of venture capital. then there is also this kind of new class of crypto native investors. folks like standard crypto, multipoint, blockchain, all backers of ours. i don't think that things are qlzz

it may seem. the same risk kind of exists for investors that are willing to underwrite them early in the lifecycle of a project. you know, the token is kind of you know publicly openly available now and i think what's interesting in crypto is that products go through the threshold much earlier in their life than a typical tech company. romaine: interesting stuff, really appreciate you coming to the program to break it down here. interesting, joe. i guess artists are always sort of looking for a new way to connect with fans and get out from under the thumb of the normal studio system or whatever you want to call it. caroline: what about you, joe? weren't you doing live events? joe: i have not played a show in a couple of years, but if there's a chance to earn a

token? maybe i would do it. caroline: how are joe points? joe: don't ask. romaine: is that a scam? joe: it is a scam. [laughter] caroline: this is bloomberg. ♪

>> from the heart of where innovation and money collide, this is "bloomberg technology," with emily chang.