>> markets are hinting that the fed may be made a mistake by moving to early. >> the biggest driver up on growth slowing is the fear of restrictions from the delta variant. >> when it is your hard-earned money as opposed to test dollars, it takes a bigger hit to that mental outlook. >> there's a ton of cash on consumer and corporate balance sheets. that needs to go somewhere. >> this is bloomberg surveillance with tom keene, lisa abramowicz. jon: it is a risk on thursday. good morning, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance" live on tv and radio. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. down 25 on the s&p, down .6%. a risk aversion through this markets worldwide. tom: we go out to the deepest market, the dollar, really breaking out and moving stronger. renminbi up to 6.49.

bbdxy up, it is a correlated week. jon: the cyclical breakdown has been building for a while. look at the move in airlines over the last couple months. that is not the fed, that is delta, that is china. i think claiming the fed every morning if there's any move like this is missing the mark. tom: i agree. here is the mark. i put these out two weeks ago in celebration of our great epidemiologists, virologists. we all have these back on our face. on radio, i'm hold -- holding up a mask. jon: lisa and line with the goldman forecast, in the past 24 hours, downgrade q3 gdp in america, an up to q4, and did i mention the fed? they're talking about delta. lisa: this is the right focus. i think it is important you talk about how this is not about the fed and tapering, it is about supply chain, about inflation reducing consumer sentiment. we have seen that across the board as well as production. interesting to see people are

coming out and seeing the potential ramifications for this. the big question in my mind, how long do these disruptions go on at a time of zero tolerance for covid cases and the likes of china? jon: china front and center. a conversation about 12 redistribution in china, look at the move in europe, that is where the big move is right now. look at the move in the luxury players. they are getting hammered. tom: the first thing i looked at this morning was the germany 10 year yield which has given me some greater negative statistic. the single thing i've noticed in the last 24 hours, i have never seen this, we have economists playing epidemiologists. goldman sachs, wonderful work, but read the note jon. he is guessing the delta variant. i don't buy that, it can cut either way. jon: we will catch up with

neil. "this is a forecast to rent not own. we will be trending a bit more risk in q3 for less risk in q4." that is a bet. tom: well said. that is a bad. it is absolutely a bet and we see it now. on twitter, nibbling at amazon, he has been a massive short. that is a massive drawdown. tom: let's get -- jon: let's get to the drawdown. we are -.6% on the s&p. let's call it three. tom: drawdown? jon: fx euro-dollar, 1.16 handle. we are down there by little more than .1%. lisa crude with the 63 handle. negative there for six straight days. lisa: this to me as one of the key indicators. where we find the risk off ill is not a huge drawdown necessarily. that's as we are seeing rather

in commodities and in some of the dollar complex area where you see dollar strength rise to the most this year as time was talking about. i want to give you any indication of the potential slowdown we are looking at, and whether we see this in the labor market is unclear. toyota motor said they were cutting production by 40% because of supply chain disruptions, the chip shortage. do we see a pickup in layoffs as a result of the increase in the delta variant as the result of the supply chain disruption? people expect those jobless claims to continue to decline and they continue in claims. do we see any upside surprise, the ron kind, as we see the delta variant start to take hold? also today, all day, tesla is having artificial intelligence day, awkward timing given u.s. officials are doing an investigation into their autonomous technology.

or will there -- at 10:00 a.m., u.s. supply leading economic indicator index. the interesting thing to me is how much do we see some of the issues bleed into consumer confidence? how much are people getting ahead of that michigan survey that's really shook a lot of people in the market last friday? jon: thank you. we have to process so many things this morning. i wonder if you can reconcile these two things. delta threats to growth and the fed tapering, can you have the latter without the former? tom: i think the over analysis of the fed, given the body of moving events we've got, including afghanistan, is frankly unfair to chairman powell. i think the media is over thing -- this distinction, taper in rate rise, we are divorcing its. jon: let's bring in ear at shem person -- bring in ian shepherdson. can you have the latter with the

former? can the fed taper while also discussing the threat of a slowdown because of the delta variant? ian: i certainly do not think they can taper quickly. it is clear from the minutes yesterday that's back in late july, the last meeting, there was a split of opinion on the fed. the word delta was cropping up more in the minutes in previous meetings. if they have a meeting today, they would be talking a lot more about delta because even in the three weeks since the july meeting, the numbers have deteriorated dramatically across the southeast corner into the u.s. and cases have risen in every state. on that basis and looking for an early taper or for a clear steer from chair powell or jackson hole, i think premature at this point. we have to keep an open minds. we do not know what the path of delta will be. the two states it became rapid first, missouri and arkansas, cases are falling. it took two months from the

initial pickup to the turning point, early june to early august. if this is followed elsewhere, it is reasonable and we are guessing here but it is reasonable to think by the end of september or early october the delta wave will nationally be clearly coming down. that might clear the way for a fed to announce tapering in the early november meeting but this is speculative. it is possible, that the fomc members pointed out yesterday, that they might have to wait next year. the impact on the economy at this point is unknown and for all we might speculate delta will be going by october, we do not know. it could get worse before it gets better. tom: i noticed overnight repo going out to a new high, well above $1 trillion. i don't want you to play bond or overnight reaper guy. i want you to explain how the wall of liquidity out there changes the discussion for chairman powell.

ian: the liquidity is everywhere now, so we see it in the markets, in the repo markets, in consumer balance, housel balance sheets, elevator housing prices. there is an unprecedented amount of liquidity everywhere. a lot of it seems to be on the sidelines. we are not seeing households deploy their liquidity and we are seeing some corporate spending but it is not rampant. it is not as though taking away liquidity or adding less or tapering -- tapering is just adding less, not taking away. it has a massive potential impact on market expectations and perceptions. as some fomc members noted yesterday, it is difficult to separate the idea tapering from tightening. the problem is, if you give the markets an inch by starting to taper, they take a yard and fretting about it in the rate

hikes. once that hare is running, it is hard to stop it. if you want to be cautious and are worrying about delta, don't start the hare running immediately, wait until delta has subsided. the less core inflation print of july showed the spike -- the reopening spike is beginning to recede. we are seeing strong productivity growth, so that is pretty favorable. to make this argument the inflation spike be transitory i think is a solid idea. in the face of the delta uncertainty, why not quite a couple months? what difference does it make? jon: ian shepherdson, thank you. why not wait? what can chairman powell say next week? lisa: the incredible irony is that the longer the delta variant continues to be a problem, we see more inflationary pressures on the margins when it comes to some of the supply chain disruptions.

how does the fed deal with the fact that consumers are getting less buying power in the store. it can they affect anything with that? what does it do to not taper in order to stimulate the economy? i'm struggling to get my head around how the fed addresses issues way beyond their control. jon: many people ask the same questions. lisa, you follow the consumer confidence data more than i have. last friday, the weakest since 2011, and the question i think a lot of people are asking, every time we have a downside to price, higher price is starting to crimp demand on confidence. lisa: and we have seen that in specific industries and other data we got this week confirmed that disappointing reader, are basically higher prices are crimping people's willingness to spend. you see a runoff on stimulus checks, also a great disappointment we see a resurgence in the delta variant.

there's a series of data points that confirm this. jon: if there's a consensus on this it is recovery delayed and not derailed. that was the view from goldman overnight i think. tom: i would go out further and this goes to what we have seen from jp morgan, from goldman sachs, from others, is the measure of where we land. i want to emphasize goldman sachs 2022 is not only where we land lower gdp but it is the deceleration to get there. jon: what do you want to own in this market? we ask that of stuart keiser, who will join us in the next hour. hit the price action, down 24 on the s&p, negative 0.5 part -- -0.55%. we are negative three basis points. in the commodity market, six straight days on the run for crude lower, down by 3% at 6354 -- 63.54. this is bloomberg.

♪ ritika: with the first -- >> with the first word news. president biden will keep troops in afghanistan until all americans are able to leave the country, even if it takes longer than his august 31 deadline to withdraw. the president also said u.s. intelligence did not see such a rapid advance by the taliban. the president of afghanistan said he fled the country over the weekend to avoid being hanged. he is now in the united arab emirates and said he left on sunday after security officials warned him taliban fighters wanted to execute him. he denies reports he left with a helicopter full of cash. most of the federal reserve officials agreed they could slow the pace of bond touches later this year, according to policymaker meetings -- meeting minutes last month. enough had been worked toward their inflation go and gains had

been main unemployment. a new study shows vaccines are less effective against the delta variance. that could lead to a booster shot for people. the british study that the phis and -- pfizer and biontech lost efficacy after eight months. about three quarters of the 355 billion dollars in assets is backed by environmental, social, and other criteria. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and on "bloomberg quicktake," powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. i am laura wright. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> i don't think it could have been handled in a way -- we will

go back in hindsight and look but the idea that somehow there's a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, i don't know how that happens. jon: the president of the united states speaking to abc. good morning alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. here is your equity markets. risk off, negative, softer, lighter on the s&p 500. we take more weight off it, down .6% on the s&p. yields come in to 1.2283. the dollar is stronger, comfortably with a handle. outside of that, crude down three percentage points, 63.30 three on wti. that is a six day on losses on crude. tom: no question about that. to take it over to the global price, maybe china worries about brent crude from china down to 63.33 as well. washington is turned upside down

on august -- in august. annmarie, what is on the president's agenda today? what does he expect to pick up? annmarie: we know the president will be meeting with his national security team so his nsa advisor, jake sullivan, that is the chair of the joint chiefs, mark milley, secretary of defense, lloyd austin, and of course this is as they continue this evacuation from the kabul airport of american citizens as well as afghans. that will be the number one agenda. i expect a white house to tweet another photo. this time the president in situation room. lisa: how did some of president biden's comments read out in the beltway when you had -- have a president that said i do not think we will go back in hindsight and look. the idea that we could get out without this chaos is misguided. what is the reaction among

politicians in washington? annmarie: frustration and confusion because this administration had assured politicians on both sides of the isle and the american people, saying you will not see scenes of saigon and it is not inevitable of a quick taliban takeover and that is pretty much exactly what happened. there is this frustration and i would note in the interview with george stephanopoulos from abc, the president have a tone -- had a ton of taxation. he was frustrated and defensive on what was going on and how this was playing out. the bit that caught me was when george stephanopoulos said we have all seen the pictures, the c-17 filled with african refugees, and the president cut off mr. stephanopoulos and said that was four days ago, five days ago. the president doesn't realize those images are still very much on americans and politicians minds. lisa: does that it matter that there is frustration into

americans? does it bleed into relations or does president biden's opponents make a lot of this to be the case? annmarie: there's always going to be politics. they don't call it a swamp for nothing. domestically, this is a cloud over his agenda. already next week there will be hearings, already we have speaker pelosi and senator mitch mcconnell saying they want the gang of eight having briefings with top administration officials on what exactly went wrong. lisa, to your point on the international front, there seems to be some relationships that are frayed. you could feel frustration from the europeans. we have a german election coming up and the next likely chancellor of germany said this is the biggest debacle nato has ever seen. so you will see there will be a lot of reconciliation needed after this out of this side of the pond and international players. tom: let's go to your soldier in london and the idea that maybe you have a handle on

transatlantic better than i do. i know the wall street journal is no friend of the president, rings up the debris -- the degree of robert gates, the secretary new -- secretary of defense, and his harsh criticism of the president over the decades. then there is a criticism of people like robert gates. does that force europe to call an emergency g7 meeting? annmarie: they have already. the prime minister of the united kingdom says he wants a virtual g7 meeting, and that is likely what we will get. my question regarding the g7 is in early june, when the taliban actually had control of more districts than the government, much of the country was contested but what was in the taliban control was bigger than the government. the g7 at that moment was meeting in cornwall. why was this not discussed? tom: look at this, and the admiral will be with us in

the 9:00 hour. strip venus and "time magazine" -- admiral strip venus and "time magazine" was scathing. how we blew it in afghanistan with one year tours of duty like we did in vietnam. what did the pentagon say about this? i haven't heard a word out of the pentagon. annmarie: the admiral was calling it delusional america and went back and showed the soviets tried it, the americans tried it, and it is just not happening. tom: [indiscernible] annmarie: we heard from the pentagon yesterday. the thing that stuck out for me from the pentagon was general mark milley talking about we knew we could be a quick takeover but the quick takeover would be months. no one knew it would fall in 11 days. that bit of intelligence was interesting. another bit of this briefing was

reporters stressing about why did we leave bagram airbase in july, wouldn't that be a better place to evacuate americans and afghanistan's, and general milley said that is a great question. jon: we've got a leave it there. let's look at this market. that is where the moves and intention is. we are down 24 on the s&p, down -.6%. a story that has not been talked about enough this morning, in china, there has been a high level party meeting led by xi asking for high income groups to give back to society more. it is so important to look at this move in europe and look at the names. it is alvy mh getting whacked down by 4.6%, it is anglo, it is others. for the last five years, most growth scares have been born in one country, china. that is the story this morning in europe as well.

the stoxx 600 is getting slammed down 1.75%. tom: they are political moves in china, including the headline out to moments ago, they asked them to resolve debt risk. to me, it is a stew in china of more and does speak of can they reach the 6% gdp? jon: we have a sled upslope -- threat of slower growth and on top of that, the conversation about wealth w -- wealth redistribution. lisa: step-by-step, xi jinping seems to be making moves on his agenda and frankly he does not seem to care about the slowdowns that results. this is a game changer for markets and we see that across the board. jon: it might not be as sexy as seeing fed taper on or off when you look at the moves in europe, that is what is going on. tom: we are having a

conversation on wealth redistribution. jon: i bet you are, tom. tom: yeah, we are. it's called back to school. jon: going to buy the apple ipad, right? tom: that's in there. hbo max looks great on that puppy. [laughter] ♪

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jon: live from new york city for our audience worldwide on tv and radio, this is "bloomberg surveillance." here is the price action. futures are negative, stocks lower, down by .6% on the s&p. -1.4% on the russell. the nasdaq off .4%. so many things going on we need to work through. i ton of contradictions. here's one for you. can you have the fed tapering yet also worried about a slowdown globally? can you get one with the other? does the latter make sense with the former? we need to talk about that. the bond market, twos, tens, 30's, yields shaping about follows, down for on 185, that is a flattened curve. that's the story in the united states but i think we need to

spend more time talking about the story globally. this has been building for a while. we have seen the move in airlines, seen the move in energy players, we have seen the move in crude. six days of this now, down to -- down 3.2% on copper futures. i hate that, you love that. tom: 8776. jon: i do this for you and you do that for me, it is a partnership. china is what we need to be talking about, every growth scare, pretty much for the past five years, has been born in china. when china talks about restrictions, slower growth, and wealth redistribution, who does that had first? it is europe. look at the cac 40 and look at the minors in london and the luxury players in france and paris. that is what is getting hammered. does that sound like a story about fed tapering? tom: no, i strongly agree, the

idea the fed analysis here has become secondary as goldman sachs and their first sentence starts with the delta variant. it is a different discussion than 10 days ago. jon: you are right to bring up the goldman call, that's call summarized as follows, downgrades for q3 and upgrade to q4 into 2022 largely because they are pushing this out, saying they -- sang the giveback will be in later quarters and we will get through this. the down point was not on the fat, the downgrade was on delta and the full-service sector recovery we have been waiting for, ultimately delayed. tom: this goes to our guess we will bring in right now, clearly goldman looks for a slowdown into the end of 2022 as they use deceleration. to continue this discussion, advance it in the stew, a representative from morgan stanley, thrilled to have him on with decades of prescribed -- decades of experience.

every story is different, every august is different, and a scathing note to the bears this morning, saying you're wrong. it said margins are there and said the waiting in technology stocks will actually increase in the coming years. can you look out past this gloom and see better margins and better tech increase? >> wow. that is a loaded question. i think it is quite likely these mega cap tech stocks report great numbers. i do not think they are as expensive as they were in 2000, so i could see their valuations continuing to move higher. earnings have been better then what people expected. i think yeah, they could continue to move up. i think what we are seeing, i totally agree with what jonathan said, this is not about

tapering, it is about china. jon: do you want to buy into the cyclicals move we are seeing, the more energy parts of the market? the energy sensitive parts of this market as well? andrew: i think it is early. the markets down 2%, could we get to 5%? i do not think it will be more substantial from that. i think you want to prepare for stronger growth going into the fourth quarter, you want to prepare for rates. rates always are kind of weak at this time of year. i think you want to prepare and get in position for those areas that have already sold off in anticipation of this summer swoon, which the financials, the reopening stocks, i think those will come back but i think it is early for that. i was slowly lay into more of these positions over the next couple weeks. jon: what will tell you you are wrong? how would you know? andrew: if rates went to 1%. if rates really got hit.

my basic view is, look, rates peaked in april. they have been dropping since april. they seem to put in a floor, and that gives me confidence the markets already anticipated this slowdown. as an equity investor, i have to get in front of the next move. i think it is higher but if rates were to drop to 1% or below, it would challenge that thetis -- that thesis. lisa: this is an interesting conundrum i've been thinking about a lot. in the recent past, low rates were an excuse to buy stocks. there was no alternative. it now we say if we get rates lower, that will be bad for stocks. what is the tipping point at which low rates are bad for stocks rather than good? andrew: i think what jonathan with his asking, i think he was asking kind of the cyclical financials reopening, if rates were to drop lower, those stocks

would not -- the market would suffer, because i think it is a growth slowdown. i think it would challenge people's earnings estimates but it would certainly, though stocks would underperform the growthier names. i think what has underpinned the market this year is simply that earnings have been stronger than what people expected. if rates come down, i think that is a growth scare, then suddenly that piece is no longer prevalent. the reality is, if earnings estimates from this year and next have been revised higher, than the stock market -- then the stock market is up this year. it wall street is behind the recovery. again, a growth scare would suddenly reverse that, and i think that is why i would -- i think it would cause a market run. i do not think 1.5% would

challenge equity valuations because, right now roughly half the s&p yields higher than the 10 year. that is a very unusual situation. lisa: today, one of the biggest stories is perhaps a little below the radar, toyota motor said in september their production would fall by 40% because of ship shortages. just one of the supply chain disruptions we had seen continued for longer that -- longer than previously expected. you think investors added lately -- adequately priced in these exceptions and that they could continue longer than for what people thought? andrew: look, i think as long as it is not a demand-driven slowdown, then investors will look through a chip shortage. that is a supply issue. it is the demand side and suddenly they said there's not much of a demand for cars, i think that is what would

cause much more weakness. if it is a chip shortage, the market will look through that. i don't see it. i don't want to sound -- it is august, i have been raising -- i have gotten cash and tower funds and i have been sitting on i cash waiting period i want to emphasize the key difference between last summer. we had a 9% correction between august of last summer and this summer. last year, rerun the clock to august 2020, through the summer we were getting calls from investors coming from a -- investors, from and visors -- from advisors, saying we would have a covid outbreak in the fall and they want to cash out and get out and can you keep each all -- keep people from cashing out. this summer, when is a pullback coming? i have too much cash on the sidelines. it tells me it will keep the

correction from really getting out of hand and that is why i do not think we are good for a 9% or 10% correction like last summer. tom: there is a famous buy on the dip theory. where is that theory? where is a single mechanism you have for stepping in, given the wall of liquidity out there? andrew: so i think you got to watch rates. as long as the tenure rates don't really fall off a cliff, it tells me this is a classic august situation. we get down 5%, we will start to push that cash to work, but it is a little early so be patient. jon: i will try to be patient, i will try my best. andrew slimmon, morgan stanley senior portfolio manager. is it noise or news and doesn't get reversed? we will catch up with our guests when we get jobless claims.

any weakness in this quarter he thinks will be replaced by a stronger q4 and a stronger year next year than anticipated because of that. i think we take away from q3, it gets given back in q4 and beyond. tom: what do you do if your timeline is one year, short-term term is one year out? not everybody has cash daytrading the yankees. jon: andrew just said it, he wants to bind to the cyclical you see on the screen right now. buying to the cyclical weakness that is born out of what is taking place in china, the restrictions because of a delta variance urging, not just china but you're up to some degree as well. some people want to buy the weakness. tom: you want a four digit answer to ender's theory? jon: i would love that. tom: 1.156 four is two standard deviations lower yield on the 10 year yield. we are nowhere near that. jon: right now, 1.2 to 50. yields are in.

-- 1.2250. yields are in. lisa: he did say supply cut -- supply-side constraints are not as a key issue as demand-side. one of the key issues, when do supply-side constraints become a demand-side issue? when prices start to go up because you have these kinks in the supply chain this reduces people's willingness to go by. it is a serious concern at this -- go buy. it is a serious concern on this point. jon: i agree. negative .7% on the s&p 500. we will talk about this pandemic with the johns hopkins center senior scholar. we do that next. i am jonathan ferro. in new york, futures are lower. this is bloomberg. ♪ >> i am laura wright. the national monetary fund says the new government in afghanistan is cut off from using the assets.

he comes days before the nation was set to receive $500 million and it deprived the taliban of key resources. the imf said afghanistan cannot use the money because they lack international recognition. in haiti, the death toll last week has risen to 2200. tensions have been rising over the slow place -- slow pace of aid. they have complained of inadequate food and things needed to repair homes. the state is having a hard time finding more wildfires as they rage across the western u.s. and canada. 12 major wildfires are burning in california. in china, regulators issued the harshest warning from the ever grand conglomerates. they want to ensure the health of property and financial markets. this has led to sensitivity and

china's credit market leading to a pullback in homebuilding. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and on "bloomberg quicktake," powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in over 120 countries. i am laura wright. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> it's time to lay out a plan for covid-19 boosters.

recent data makes it clear that protection against mild and moderate disease has decreased over time. this is likely due to both waning community and the strength of the widespread delta variance. jon: that was the u.s. surgeon general. from new york city, good morning. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz i'm jonathan ferro. your equity market shaping up as follows, down 33 on the s&p, down .8%. it is a classic risk offset up with a bond market bid, a dollar stronger, and commodity complex that is softer. yields lower by three to four basis points to 1.22 33. euro-dollar with a 116 handle, negative a little more than .1%. the commodity market holding onto 63 on wti. down 3.73%. tom: on radio and television this morning, we will do more data checks and keep you abreast. the vix, 17-18 after 23.81.

that does get my attention. 30 is sweat and we are not to sweat but well on our way, 23.81 on the vix. this is an important conversation because jennifer news oh reads the research. -- nuzzo reads the research. the new york times has a standout article on the silly plastic barriers that have invaded our lives, including john hopkins university research which say desk screens could actually give us an increased risk versus intelligent use of masks. can you help us with the plastic and golf in this -- the plastic that has engulfed us? i am hermetically sealed from lisa and john. i have not hugged lisa in like 18 months. lisa: that's not because of covid. [laughter] tom: help me. jon: i think lisa needs your

help. tom: and -- i miss you guys so much. jennifer, on the plastic screens, help. jennifer: let me reach over and hugged tom, he needs it. lisa: go ahead. jennifer: we don't have a lot of evidence for a lot of things. intuitively, there are probably some environments that don't make sense. people that have a lot of exposure with the public putting another barrier between those people and the people they are serving i think makes a lot of sense. when you see people sitting at a desk and they have a three foot plexiglass between them, it is not clear what that does if anything, and sounds like it could potentially cause harm. bottom line, probably will not be as protective as a mask. we always try to layer these interventions, but i think the most egregious example of plastic is one of the vice presidential debates, the tiny little things that separated the vice presidential candidates, not going to do much. tom: help me with the need to get vaccinated.

what has the last 40 hours showed you in all your reading and research about the getting vaccinated? jennifer: that has not changed. if we do anything to put ourselves back to normal, to go back to our lives, it is to get vaccinated. there is nothing new in the data that suggests otherwise. heard a lot of news yesterday about the potential need for a third does. i will tell you most people, including myself, think the data are not quite there to suggest most people need edits. there are cloud -- there are some small groups of people that absolutely need extra help, the immunocompromised, and they are already able to access a third does. as far as people broadly, we are not convinced that happened. the vaccines are still doing what they need them to do, preventing us from getting ill enough to get into the hospital. lisa: then went we stopped caring whether we get infected? right now, i will be honest, the vaccine -- as a vaccinated

individual with a child at home who is not vaccinated, i care as much about getting infected as i do about getting very sick simply because this will affect the people who i care about. when does that change? dr. nuzzo: i think that is exactly a potential offramp for caring about getting infected. i have also unvaccinated kids at home that are too young. hopefully when vaccines become available for them, that will less in those worries. getting a third does does not necessarily prevent you from getting infected and the first place so that will not ease the worries for you. lisa: there have been reports about new anti-body therapies out of china that have been somewhat promising. how much does that potentially provide a game changer here where we can combat this and treated it like a regular illness? dr. nuzzo: i think that is one of the missing areas that we need more progress on his treatments. there will be still breakthrough infections but we also know we have a lot of people who are not vaccinated and are going to need treatment. that is i think an important

area of research. we have some things now but they are not scalable. you have the monoclonal antibodies you hereabouts, you have to go to a center and we hooked up to an iv. it is hard to deliver that at scale, particularly given the number of cases we have. if we could get somebody and treat them potentially at home like we do for instant fluids a -- influenza, i think that will lessen the worries about the virus. tom: new york restaurants and i'm sure other restaurants listeners and viewers are familiar with are in an uproar about paper vaccine inspection to get into their restaurant. when do we get away from the silliness of what the 1850's? when do we get away from a paper document that is clearly instantly affordable? dr. nuzzo: well i think that is a real problem, people can forge it. unfortunately the apps are not potentially better than that. i think there was a story about one of the apps used where you

could upload any photo and get a green check and it is on the bouncer at a club to scrutinize whether you got your two pfizer doses on time. i think there are people who are pushing for a more verified vaccine record. that raises concerns and potentially concerns among the people who have not yet gotten vaccinated. we absolutely do not want to turn those folks off but i think we are seeing right now the challenges of the immunization records we have. they are easily forge a will. in my view, people who are determined to not comply will find a way not to. people are crafty. i tend to focus on changing hearts and minds and convince people to get vaccinated. jon: appreciate your time, doctor. dr. jennifer knew so -- nuzzo from johns hopkins center for health and security. we have to talk about the damage done to surprised the -- done to

society more broadly. my nephew, my godson, he went to the park the other day, two years old and a couple weeks, he went to the park and said hi to another child, touched the child on his arm and the other kid touched him on the arm. he had been told at nursery you cannot hug each other and you cannot hold hands and cannot touch each other's arms. that is what we are doing to children around the world. tom: we are all dealing with the daily. we are talking to our guests all the time off the mic and off the camera. we have a huge network of people from all walks of life. i am here 24/7 -- hearing 24/7 from everybody and i had to buy school clothes yesterday, uniforms and that stuff. we are there. school, even for people -- jon: i think the point is we are often having a narrow conversation about the pandemic and not having a broader conversation about the broader health crisis that is taking place. tom: lisa is living every day.

jon: and the consequences we will be living with for a long time. lisa: this is some people will be saying. if either of you need a hug. [laughter] jon: i don't know what's going on. tom: i'm just trying to get everybody back on one desk. jon: this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪

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♪ >> when the economy is in trouble, you use your fiscal cannon to deal with that challenge. we are now in an ambiguous moment. >> the markets are kind of hinting that the fed may be making a mistake by moving to early on the paper. >> did biggest thing i think is the fear of restrictions from the delta variant. >> when it comes to tax dollars, it takes a bigger hit to that mental outlook. >> there's a ton of cash on consumers' and corporate balance sheets. that eventually needs to go somewhere. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance" with tom keene, jonathan ferro, and lisa abramowicz. jonathan: when in doubt, blame the fed. from new york city, for our audience worldwide, good morning. this is "bloomberg surveillance ," live on tv and radio. alongside tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i'm jonathan ferro. your equity market down 32 on the s&p, -0.75%. if in doubt, blame the fed.