♪ >> delta does have an impact, but specific services. >> there's is still a lot of momentum but, we are seeing headwinds from the delta variant. >> a think next year we're probably looking at 3% inflation. >> the economy continues to pick up and inflation continues to stay above 2% in fact, well above 3%. the fed will have to move sooner. >> it will be sometime until the fed becomes the major market driver again. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance."

with tom keene jonathan ferro and lisa abramowicz. lisa: we gear up for the jobs report on friday. this is "bloomberg surveillance." jon ferro is of, taylor riggs very much in. time, that stands out. we had a couple of disruptions this morning. it really highlights the reality that everyone is in as we await to see whether we will go back to school. the economic ramifications of that significant. tom: across the nation, many of you back in school. in the east we start later. it has been remarkable this morning to see different tests struggling -- guests struggling with the new economy. a tweet i saw yesterday, the idea that this was supposed to be over in september is gone. lisa: and i think we saw that overnight with the pmi's out of china. the slow down, a re-jigging of

expectations going forward, you wonder if we will see that in the u.s. their shutdowns are more aggressive than here. tom: there is real economic uncertainty about gdp. we will get some clarity on friday with the jobs report. lisa: and uncertainty when it comes to the equity markets. taylor, when, i am looking at the fact that we were poised for a 50 for the record high on the s&p 500 at what point does momentum beget momentum? taylor: you could argue both sides of that. we have got it,-down from the lift-off in the equity markets, but we could pull in some of the negatives. we just heard from marcus ashworth, right? where else are you supposed to go? bonds could be close to zero in your portfolio, after inflation

basis, you are losing money. that back the question if that wall of money is flooding into equity markets. lisa: meantime, what has taken hold of this morning has been the potential of a sooner discussion on tapering. falling faster than expected in germany. an official saying that it has created a seachange when you look at bond yields. they are creeping higher on the back of that. you wonder, is this going to be some sort of tipping point, or another head fake in a world that is going to be low yield for a long time? tom: we will see how that unfolds today with taylor riggs at "the close." futures are down. -19. . vix, remarkable. we had a 15 handled this morning. we are back to 16.55.

10 year yield, 1.2 nine. still rangebound. crude at $73. $72.74. right now, geoffrey yu joins us. we are thrilled to have you, from bny mellon. lots to talk about this morning. an open question to begin, your next research note, what do you focus on the cross equities, bonds, currencies, and commodities? geoffrey: europe, the area, especially germany, is it ready to unlock the value we have been talking about ad infinitum? if we get election results that support public investment,

than a lot of europe is undervalued. equities. fixed income, we can discuss, but in particular, are we going to see the relocation into the euro banks? tom: if there is an olaf scholz victory, is that a threat of a threat over germany to the left? geoffrey: i would not characterize it as a threat. also, does left mean more public investment to get gross domestic product up? the rebates back 20 years, the gdp has been lagging behind its peers like france and the u.s. they need investment in that direction. it doesn't matter which side of the political spectrum you are on, if you feel the investment gap, you are doing the right thing for germany and europe as a whole. lisa: we were talking about the german elections, the tolerance among the higher -- among the population for higher inflation. they are always worried about

inflation. given the fact there is more awareness, more openness to fiscal spending, how does the ecb handle that, given the already starting to talk about potential tapering? geoffrey: if we listen to what has been said regarding the 2% inflation target, and the criteria for retakes, we know that rate hikes are a ways away. thinking about six months away from the gross domestic product quota anyway. what monetary policy change can you achieve in six months? not much. but there is a signal from european policymakers that they are advancing, only because iraq is in a state of reflation. if we can continue to see real income growth, than that is the tapering, the normalization that everyone can handle. but rate hikes are a long way away. lisa: so what is the market

response? geoffrey: the market is trying not to respond right now, still trying to digest the fed. if we look at equities outperforming, if a look at people's and equities, being sold. we are still worried about the global cycle right now. they are looking at china as pmi's and saying -- chinese pmi. they are missing about the bigger -- they are missing the bigger picture about what europe can do for itself. taylor: you said we could talk about bonds. . i am curious, what does the 1.28 tell you? geoffrey: one of two things, if the fed is going to taper it is going to be restraining the economy anyway. the other side of it is, taper, no taper, stagflation, bonds are going to be where they are for a long time.

that is a monetary story that could be on either side, but neither is a positive story. taylor: is stagflation a risk? geoffrey: in the short-term, stagflation is something we really have to monitor right now. the labor markets will stabilize. what sets the u.s. apart from the u.k. in china is there is additional fiscal stimulus, through. we have support coming through. you can have that organic inflation. in the rest of the world a think there's going to be greater stagflation risk. tom: frame where yields are right now we had a guest on recently lisa abramowicz who has been really good about expanding the range of the 10 year yield. is there a collar that you are paying attention to with the u.s. 10-year? geoffrey: it all goes back to the potential growth.

these longer-term rates. are bond yields basically repositioning expectations? we should not expect longer-term inflation to be high anyway, so basically, markets have long-term growth expectations. 10-year yields are reflecting that. if it is economic or psychological, the tail wags the dog there. i don't think that is the right approach. we should identify where potential growth is, then maybe yields can start to pick up. we are just not there yet. lisa: tool short of a visit. tom: thank you so much. we really appreciate it.

in that interview 10 or 12 days ago, the idea of where is the potential gross domestic product, and if we get that technology left, we can be more optimistic. lisa: it goes to the labor market. aluminum prices at the highest in 10 years, is not going to lead necessarily to a higher 10-year yields, not to a longer term higher inflation outlook. but if you do start to see productivity improve, if you start to see the labor market get heated up, how much does that change the dynamic? tom: it goes to the determination friday of what, 5.2% expected means. taylor: we are on our way there, but it is much better, i think than what people thought. emergency medicine still needed 18 months after we entered the hospital. tom: that is the e.u. view. rv going to hear it here? i don't think so.

lisa: i don't want to say sugarcoating, i think geoffrey yu highlighted that, we did have an expiration date. tom: we have bridges and tunnels and social programs. lisa: that, i think is a question, especially if germans are showing a willingness to vote for someone in the face of higher inflation rates, saying, we don't care about that, we want more infrastructure and greenification in all the years i have been doing this, this e. this is the strongest august. the euro at 118 point 37. coming up, our conversation of the nation's foreign policy future. john bolton on pakistan. this is bloomberg. ♪ rick: with your first word news, a ritika gupta.

the finer flights carrying american troops left of understand yesterday -- left cabell yesterday after the evacuation of more than 120,000 people. new orleans managed to escape the harshest from hurricane ida, but now faces days or weeks without power. not just new orleans, by monday evening, more than 2 million people across the region lack electricity. many floodgates and pumps installed after hurricane katrina devastated the city in 2005. the data -- that should reassure the opec+ coalition that they can proceed with the widely expected output increase for october. inflation in the euro area jumped to its highest level in a decade.

consumer prices rose. that is testing the policymakers' insistence that the spike in costs could be temporary. this company will add satellite features to iphone phones which will allow users to report crashes in areas without satellite coverage. the satellite features are unlikely to be ready until next year. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i am ritika gupta. this is bloomberg.

>> we engaged with the taliban

to enable our rescue operations. going forward, any engagement with the taliban in cabell will be driven by one theme only, our vital national interest. the taliban six international legitimacy and support. our message is, any legitimacy and support will have to be earned. tom: the secretary of state on the exiting of afghanistan. jon ferro is off today. x c lisa abramowicz and tom keene, we welcome you all across the nation and worldwide. we have to pause here. those of us clearly remember 1975. those close memories, i was truly taken by how -- i was to see that memo on twitter from the military yesterday afternoon. lisa: the idea that this was the end of the 20-year foray into

afghanistan by the u.s. certainly not the end for service members, dealing with the ramifications. there is the question now of what is to come. does the u.s. to negotiate with the taliban, negotiate with close neighbors like pakistan? how do we move forward in order to prevent some sort of consolidation of all the terrorist groups in the region to form something that is a little bit bigger and comparable to what we saw 20 years ago? tom: to frame what we have learned on "bloomberg surveillance," and we thank our team, terrific experts, we started with thomas barfield from boston university, his definitive volume on the tribal structure in afghanistan. it included much of western pakistan. we went on to this stunning interview a few days ago with a

general. his experience within the central command. he was scathing about what we did in cabell airport -- at kabul airport. we now finish with john bolton, former national security advisor. the book, a sensation a year ago, " the room where it happened," we are glad he could join us. you were scathing about the urgency and the magnitude of the pakistan problem. how should the secretary of state advised the president on our new relationship with pakistan? mr. bolton: i think for many years, we have been constrained by our concerns are pakistani logistical support to our forces in afghanistan, and concern about pakistan's nuclear weapons which, if they fail in the hands of terrorists, or if a terrorist

regime took over pakistan, would be a global threat immediately. the fact is we have been played by the government in pakistan for a long time. terrorist elements in the intelligence have played a double game and we have put up with it. i think with the end of our involvement in afghanistan, with a terrorist government in place there now which gives potential support for terrorist activity to take over pakistan, we have to get tabs on the government -- we have to get tabs on the government -- we have to get tough on the government. tom: let's take it back to john galbraith, ambassador to india long ago and far away. we have always been struggling with this tilt to india. how do we tilt to india now with

the memory of our soldiers in afghanistan? mr. bolton: well, the principal threat we face globally in the 20th century was -- 21st century was china. india moved away from neutrality in the cold war when it actually tilted toward the soviet union, which is one reason we tilted towards pakistan. it goes back and forth. india now sees china as a threat, and it sees the same thing we see in pakistan, a large and growing chinese presence chinese assistance to pakistan in the next -- in the past few years for its nuclear weapons program. we need to tighten up with australia and japan, and really put to pakistan as clearly as we can, give up this flirtation with terrorism. if you do, there is a real prospect for cooperation. but we will not go on any

longer pretending. tom: what form of relationship would you advocate, after your travels to central asia, does biden need to go to new delhi now? mr. bolton: he needs to go soon. we have issues with india, too -- and their dependents russian weapons systems which they have relied on and purchased for decades going back to the cold war. and i think a lot of the political class in india will have to wake up to the fact that the neutrality, which was never really neat during the cold war, is no longer an option. i think they are beginning to move in that direction. there is a lot of opportunity there, but i don't underestimated the amount of work that is going to be involved. taylor: other groups could become reminiscent of the geithner of your -- of the al

qaeda of yore. mr. bolton: we should remember that the allocator of -- that the al qaeda of yore his back and forth now. we saw that even before the fall of the afghan government. isis-k has been -- with the taliban because they don't think they are tough enough. they don't think they are sufficiently strict in the imposition of islamic law. so there is tension there now. but this could turn into cooperation in the blank overnight. and isis-k does have worldwide threat capabilities, as does al qaeda. i am worried that we have slipped back into a pre-9/11 situation. taylor: meanwhile, reports that there are a number of american citizens still in afghanistan. the u.s. has completely pulled out. what do you see as the best pathway to get some of these

people remaining out of the nation safely? whose alliance are we going to rely upon? mr. bolton: i am very worried that they are not coming out. let's remember, a lot of these u.s. citizens may be dual and afghan, or they may have been afghan and become u.s. citizens. i would not rest any effort in cooperating with the taliban. if we can get a few more people out who are american citizens. the number of afghans who worked with us and other coalition forces for the last 20 years be few and far between getting out. we are at real risk here of a long, brutal hostage situation. taylor: we left those people behind. we knowingly did it. mr. bolton: we never should have left. it was a mistake.

the exit itself was badly bungled, no question. about the mistake goes back to the trump administration negotiating with the taliban. negotiating with a terrorist group. not negotiating with the government of afghanistan that we helped create 20 years ago. whatever its efficiencies, and it had plenty, it had some credibility, of which the taliban has zero. tom: a lot of the concerns about the way in which we left, has been china stepping in. the belt and road initiative through pakistan you wonder if it continues through afghanistan. is that a real threat? mr. bolton: i think it is. in fact, i have an op-ed in the wall street journal today on the reaction both by china and russia to what we have done in afghanistan. we are all understandably concentrating on what has gone

wrong in afghanistan. if you look at the main adversaries, they read this as a sign of american retreat and weakness. tom: you came out of baltimore. your father was a fireman. you did the military academy thing and wondered up to the liberal swamp known as new haven, connecticut. it must have been a shock your first date at yale university. you did pretty good there as well. you have a pretty good perspective on the international relations establishment of washington. are we in search of an operative theory? we went from the civilizations, the washington consensus, may be zakaria's a post-american world, what does your theory look like? mr. bolton: i am not interested in broad scale theorizing but i think american foreign policy

has to be based in america's national interest which is why we were there in afghanistan. we were not there to do charity work for the afghans, we were there as a strategic defense against the recurrence of terrorism like we saw in a 9/11. when we give up that approach, we leave america in danger, which is exactly where i think we are today. taylor: we are hearing the administration is turning its focus more to the far east and to cyber warfare, the protection that could come from that and other types of france for the new war -- types of front for the new war. how do you see the u.s. should chart a path in that direction? mr. bolton: cyber security, we now realize -- we think china is the main extensional threat for the 21st century but what is most important to understand

with the end of the cold war and the collapse of the soviet union although people had this dream of the peace dividend actually in the past 30 years the world is more dangerous, from more diverse threats. it is not with afghanistan. we are more secure. that clear point today is that we are less secure and we need to be ready across a multiplicity of threats. tom: thank you, ambassador bolton. john bolton, former national security advisor. futures are down, -7. a little bit away from the tape off we saw two hours ago. part of that is personified in the oddities of a bond market and a one of money. that means. price up, yields stable. kathy jones joins us now, on the oddities of the bond market. the wall of money out there is

tangible, what would you advise to savers exhausted from low nominal yields and nonexistent real yields? kathy: the key is you need a pretty diversified portfolio. clearly, you will not get much return in traditional treasuries . but yields are low, and that reflects, as you mentioned, with tremendous liquidity in the market from secular forces that continue to pour money into high-quality bonds. that is probably not going to change. you need to have a lot of expectation to deal with it. lisa: can you put into perspective the discussion of tapering bond stimulus that we are hearing both from the federal reserve, and now also from the ecb will there be a material effect that hasn't come through yet from bond yields moving higher, as taper plans get --?

kathy: my feeling is that the slower they go, the higher the yield. tapering is the first step towards tightening policy and reducing liquidity. so if the fed takes the very slow approach that allows longer-term expectations about inflation and growth stay higher, if we move slowly, i think yields move up. if the fed moves very quickly by the ecb starts to taper quickly and clamp down on the stimulus, that we are probably going to see yields low in the long-term. lisa: this is really confusing, frankly the whole backdrop. basically a soup, which is why the market has not done much. i wonder if the federal reserve,

if they are going to remain on hold longer, where are we seeing a steepening in the yield curve? we are just not seeing it in the markets. . does this make sense to you? kathy: i think yields should be higher. reflecting the growth we have, particularly from fiscal stimulus, less about the fed but more about fiscal stimulus which has been pretty powerful so far and has the potential to continue to keep the economy pretty strong. and we have income growth. we should start to see aggregate demand pickup. and for longer-term prospects, keep inflation higher. and real yields higher. what i don't think the market is convinced that will happen. i think the market is skeptical about that. at the same time, we do have tremendous demand, just a little

demand for yields out there. what is additional investors have learned is that you have to take every opportunity when yields slip up to put the money to work. taylor: exactly, that is it what we have heard. it may not be the fed, it may be there foreign, overseas buyer who wake up, japan wants to be buying your bonds. do you see that changing anytime soon? kathy: i doubt that it changes a lot. there are seasonal factors. but you're still looking at yield spreads. in nominal terms which is what people trade in the short run, you still have a big gap between where we are and where japan is and where europe is. if you are an s additional

investor, a pension fund or insurance money and you have money that has to go to work and it has to be in a high-quality aspect, where do you go? taylor: is that what you see when you migrate away from credit? the minute you get above 300, -- came in. kathy: there is a fundamental story here. yields are low, officially, but the fundamental story is we have strong enough --, manageable levels of debt from low companies. yields are really strong. tom: lisa sanders said retirement is growing up so fast. how do you handle money? price up, yield down, can that

happen with this wall of money? kathy: it is possible, but we need some data to make it happen. there was a big scare. i think we need another big scare, but it doesn't seem to be on the horizon for the next six month or so. despite the delta variant, we are looking at the economy growing at a healthy rate. i don't think revisiting 1.12 or 1.15 is likely. lisa: there is also the question about long-term whether the fed will be too slow and we get faster than expected inflation. especially someone who has watched yields go lower and rates go nowhere. the fed is going to remain on hold, but we are seeing

movement. it is a different world based on fiscal support. what do you say to arguments like that? kathy: i tend to agree that the fiscal support is the most important. whether the fed finds itself so far behind the curve that they have to ratchet up rates is a question mark in my mind, because they have the ability to taper more quickly, taper more slowly, raise rates more quickly. . it is premature to say that they will get behind the curve. i get the risk, clearly. fiscal stimulus is the danger in this market, versus really the past 30 or 40 years. . we have not had this kind of fiscal support for the economy in a very long time. monetary policy is -- for that, but i do think it is on the radar.

taylor: on that tone of the fiscal policy, you get this idea within the equity markets of this inflationary trade. we joke that every equity analyst is now also a bond analyst and a bond strategist. what are the equity guys next to you asking you, what information do they want about your world of bonds? kathy: they just want to know what the fed is going to do. [laughter] that is all they request. tom: some shade there. [laughter] kathy fish obviously, it is important. it is a logical question. the concern amongst equity strategists that we are not seeing yields move up as quickly as inflation is. there like everyone else, scratching their heads. but we are not hearing much more than a focus on the fed. tom: for the retirees of america

crashed as savers, when do we see a positive real yield? do we need to go into 2023, or '24? kathy: probably. it will take some time. on the other hand, if the saver has a balanced portfolio, there is appreciation on the equity side. let's not forget, if you are hoping for higher yield, it may have an effect. lisa: but the implication is that if somebody has a ballast portfolio, does this mean that bombs can serve as a buffer? do they serve as that buffer or no? kathy: i think they do. i reject the argument i have rejected that argument for a long time. they are still there when the stock market really goes down. tom: looking up right now, lisa,

carefully ballast portfolio, to see what that return has been. kathy jones, thank you so much, from the schwab center for research. balance is such a dangerous word right now, lisa. lisa: i was going to say. [laughter] tom: but for conservative savers, they are not buying bitcoin. i am looking at some kind of --. i think that is what makes patel 's portfolio look so good, it is all about dividend growth. lisa: we saw for years, hedge funds losing money and not getting new clients? it is starting to reverse. people are looking for career related assets. they are searching anywhere. it highlights that there is no alternative.

a balanced portfolio looks different now than perhaps a few years ago. taylor: at my reading this right? you have 15%, 18% return on a 60/40 portfolio in the last year? doesn't sound too bad. tom: it doesn't sound too bad, but it is only a few basis points under the -- 500. you know the cfa, the consultants make note of that. to your point, people are miserable with a 15% return. taylor: totally valid. just remember, cg is th -- just remember, cfa is the noun. violation of ethics already. [laughter] i hate to say it, it means more equities. that 10-year yields is nowhere

near being a headwind for equities, tom, as we think about the equities that rely on the discount rate that is determined by the federal reserve. tom: we will see. what do we got coming up? lisa: will be speaking to the head of u.s. rates, he will be joining. us very curious about that potential buffer. all guys want to know is what the fed will do. tom: a 14-point swing on standard and poors futures this morning. much more to come. the president near the 1:00 hour. this is bloomberg. ♪ ritika: with your first word news, i i'm ritika gupta. the taliban have called good

relations with the u.s. leaders walked across the tarmac of the international airport in kabul, the last place under u.s. control. in louisiana, rescue crews are looking for people stranded by hurricane ida, many using boats to help people stuck in their homes by waters. governor john bel edwards says he expects the death to rise considerably. more than one million people are without electricity, including most of new orleans thousands of people have been told to leave, south lake tahoe in northern california. a fast-growing wildfire is threatening the area the fire erupted more than two weeks ago east of sacramento. it has burned 177,000 acres. the price of aluminum has hit a 10 year high in london. chain curbed output of aluminum to conserve electricity and cut

emissions. at the same time, demand for that metal is surging. and this might be surprising, but the retail shakeup in the u.s. slowed down. there were fewer store closings in the first half of 2021 compared to the last few years. mass closings accelerated what has already been a years-long retail downside. it is the first time in 21 years that store openings outpaced closings. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, -- powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. global news, 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by more than 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. i i'm ritika gupta. this is bloomberg. ♪

tom: good morning, everyone. "bloomberg surveillance."

taylor riggs and tom keene. lisa abramowicz is preparing for an important hour coming up. this is not a normal interview. warren davidson is from ohio to the west, on the border and on the edge, and he knows where berlin heights, ohio is. navy core man -- will be put to rest. for warren davidson, this is real, former special ops is, tour of duty not only at west point. congressman, it is a different day. what would you tell the young military that you will once a part of? rep. davidon: those people have protected america for a long time, they have kept it safe, they have done their duty,

they should always hold their heads high and be proud. of our country should always appreciate their sacrifice. those who made it home, who have injuries. and we should definitely take time to remember those that we lost over 2500 in afghanistan. and unfortunately, 13 more this past week. lisa: there was a point in 1975 in 1976, in the naval academy, i believe, '75. the pentagon has to pick itself up and move forward. how will they do that? how will they move forward after the last plane left last night? h.r. mcmaster wrote a book about the failures in afghanistan.

-- about the failures in vietnam. i am confident another book will be written on the failures in afghanistan. we saw the government the u.s.-backed in afghanistan fall quickly, similar to the government in iraq. they rolled over very quickly. we have to reassess a u.s. policy and u.s. leadership at the pentagon and it is time for people to be held accountable. . there are a lot of people that need fired right now. taylor: what do you want in that issue in the coming weeks and in the coming months on the debrief, not only why we got out, but on the how we got out? rep. davidson: it is an important distinction. when i went into this classified briefing recently, i felt like it was appropriate for president biden to resign. but when i had the classified briefing, i felt even more strongly like that.

i was left with the impression that the secretary of state, joint chiefs and the chairman of the joint chiefs should be fired. there is no way that this national security team could inspire confidence that they will advance national security. there has to be accountability there. we have american citizens left behind. i know of 60-plus personally. taylor: why did we not get them out? they think the president in the last two weeks had said anyone who wanted to get out would? rep. davidson: why indeed. i have tracked this with the state department since saturday. i am trying to control myself here on camera, but the average is an understatement. i have tried every tactic i can. they need clearance to leave. we have known american citizens,

blue-passport holding american citizens. we have had dialogue with the state department, they know they are there yet we evacuated anyway. we know it will be much harder to get them out. to me, that is complete dereliction of duty and gross negligence of the worst kind. tom: you are part of the third infantry division. all the history of the white and blue banner worn on their shoulder from that same division. i want you to discuss now the american modern military, which is technology over infantry. technology is every solution to what we can do, that we can prosecute military affairs from a distance. that does not sound like the third infantry division? rep. davidson: the third infantry division today integrates technology very well. they are a very lethal force,

based in georgia, fort benning and fort stewart. so, this is a heavy-armor type of force. we have mechanized infantry. this operation we have seen in afghanistan, the war on terror is really a special operations mission more than that. if you look at how isis was defeated, when they went from controlling vast territories to none, it was with. very focused special operations it was not by occupying ground and driving the same supply routes every day to be ambushed and killed with iud's there -- killed with ieds. i think the civilian leadership often relies on technology at the expense of the human aspect.

tom: final question, if we could, you heard our interview with john bolton. he is focused on pakistan, that we underestimate the magnitude of the challenge of pakistan. how would you advise to move forward on pakistan? rep. davidson: well, i think john bolton summarized the threat. the key that did not get mentioned is china. china is very instrumental in cash going into afghanistan by mining operations, not just rare earth minerals, but copper. you look at their one belt, one road initiative, it goes through pakistan. the nexus could involve iran. we really have to be focused on our actions there. we should not be doing things that strengthen iran, like this administration has talked about, who should be focused on our

adversaries, and iran, china, pakistan, they all run through that area. we should be focused on making sure there are no sanctuaries for terrorists. let's not forget when we found bin laden in 2011, he was in afghanistan. tom: warren davidson, thank you. of the eighth district in ohio, just west of ohio. right now we change gears. we have been speaking with ambassador bolton and congressman davidson from ohio. now, lisa abramowicz has been so good about this, we speak of the need for nato. we are joined by secretary-general. his affiliation is with norway. yen stoltenberg joins us. what should be in italy: -- -- what should be the nato policy after we exit afghanistan?

secretary stoltenberg: first of all, to ensure that afghanistan does not once again become a safe haven for terrorists. the reason why nato allies into the u.s. going into afghanistan in 2001 was a direct response to the terrorist attack on the united states. our partners have struggled beside the u.s. for the last 20 years and for those 20 years, we presented afghanistan from being a safe haven for terrorists. we need to ensure that is also the case in the future. so we will follow the new rulers in kabul closely and make sure the allies have the capability to strike from a long distance. tom: i really want to focus on

on the resolute support mission. the idea of the italians in the west of afghanistan, the germans up north where the alliance is, and then fish the turkish flag in the middle providing nato support -- nato support to afghanistan. explain nato's relationship with mr. erdogan and the new afghanistan. sec. gen. stoltenberg: nato has ended its military presence in afghanistan as the u.s. has, and i would like to thank and commend all the men and women who served there for so many years. their efforts and their service were not in vain. turkey has offered to continue to support the airport, and the airport in kabul is a vital link to the world to get humanitarian aid in, but also to enable safe

passage for those who want to leave. nato allies have strongly stated that we will not forget all those allies who supported those who are at risk and will continue to work to ensure they can leave afghanistan. tom: will that mean nato support directly on the many adjacent borders of afghanistan to continue to get people out? sec. general stoltenberg: so, nato allies are working on how to make sure that the airport can continue to operate. second, we expect the taliban to live up to their commitments both unsafe passage, but also on open land borders, and of course, on what they promised when it comes to preventing terrorist organizations being able to reconstitute themselves in afghanistan. tom: if you are just joining us on radio and television,

secretary-general of nato, we are honored he could join us on this historic morning. mr. secretary-general, nato is not so much in charge of a mission, it is a changeable europe, a changeable nato, nato as we move into 2022. all of that but trust up against the question -- buttressed app i guess the question of immigration and refugees across europe. how can nato support its nations in continental europe confronting a new round of mass refugees and migration? sec. general stoltenberg: our main task is to help to stabilize our neighbors. that is the reason why we are working with partners in north africa and the middle east to help stabilize countries in our neighborhood. if our neighbors are more stable, we are more secure.

we also have some presence in the aegean. where we hope to make agreements to stabilize migration. one for all, and all for one. this is important for europe, but also for the u.s., in the world with a shifting global balance of power. with russia and china. it is a huge advantage for the united states and its 29 friends and allies in nato. no other major power has anything like that. therefore, a strong nato, europe and north america standing together, is important both for america and nato. tom: how can america assist your members? one general from the united states, ambassador bolton,