romaine: 100 days to christmas. caroline: it was a mixed retail bag for investors today. the numbers gave us a significant downward revision to july spending. the future of how we shop and where we shop isn't changing. [laughter]

romaine: santa is already out. taylor: is this live footage of caroline in the mall? should we save you? romaine: we have to start with the data. taylor: the objective data that we do here on the bloomberg terminal as we attempt to save caroline. take a look at this. this is the august numbers. go across the board, we do not clearly see the consumer, the hindrance to the continued recovery in this economy. this shows the consumers are alive and well. let's bring in our analyst to talk to us about seasonality.

>> you are seeing two things from july to august. the variants have been rising. what we saw in june and maybe july is people were spending more on experiences rather than things. when it came to august and cases were rising, you saw the spend shift back to things and away from expanses. that is part of the trend that could continue to play out as we see higher cases here in the u.s. as well as continued strength in the underlying consumer. they continue to have pent-up demand for apparel and things that now need to get. romaine: as caroline was showing ahead, we are now looking into the winter shopping season. obviously, a lot of eyes are on christmas. halloween is actually the second

biggest shopping day after christmas. how much of a lift is that going to give to the retail sales numbers? >> everyone is looking forward to the holiday. we have to keep in mind the supply georges -- shortages. the conditions aren't getting any better. they are actually increasing and getting worse. freight rates are higher. they are the highest have been since september 15. we are seeing variants rising in asia. there's a lot to be concerned about going into holiday from a supply standpoint. from a demand supply -- from a demand standpoint, we see robust demand heading into the holiday with people shopping online. caroline: if people are going to shop more online, are we going to be able to ease the supply chain issues? our company thinking outside the box and ways of being able to deliver if demand is

un-satiated, how are we going to deal with the supply constraints? >> it's going to be very difficult. we have lots of different issues. labor issues, tight trucking markets. delayed shipments coming from overseas. there's a lot of things going on that will limit supply. you will see out of stock. you have to shop early this holiday season and retailers will be trying to get the spend in earlier so they can make sure they can capitalize on the sales. the good news is when you sell things earlier, you get better margins. margins -- product margins should be better than last year. caroline: you don't foresee sales in that scenario. in the all-important fall outfit you have lined up, romaine. coming up, the future of recs and mortar. we will talk about online

shopping with a ceo. that's coming up next. this is bloomberg. ♪

romaine: today we are focused on all things retail. we got the numbers out earlier, which gives us an excuse to talk about the long-term trends. we have been talking a lot about this and where people are spending their money. on one or are they going out physically to stores? taylor: take a look at the terminal, because in blue -- this is a long-term chart. 2010 is when it peaked. the white line is the non-start

-- non-store retailers and that's what took off during the pandemic. take a look at the right hand side, where the camera is zooming and. they are converging back together. the white line is to outperform, but it seems like it might be coming back together. now is the time of the shift. as you said and as our next guest could say, may be the repurposed thing of the stores and people going into the stores than purchasing online. let's talk to the president and ceo of a physical retail trade group. are people still going to the stores? >> are people going to the mall

or not? physical retail is a big six dirt -- sector. from grocery stores to regional malls and everything in between. with the different challenges during the pandemic, particularly open air because of the existence of essential retail, they did fairly well. malls are catching back up. people are going out shopping. the bigger story is what you saw in your chart which is coming together. you only show department stores, physical retail is more than department stores. the reality is sectors online and physical stores, people expect retailers to show -- to serve them in both channels. the most effective retailers have figured out a way to leverage online and use their

stores as consumer hubs and vice versa. people going into a store, browsing, seeing what they like and buying it online. i think the convergence of the two and the symbiotic relationship that exists is critical. that is the future of retail. i don't think physical retail is going away at all. the nature of it is changing and evolving and online has had a heavy influence. >> when someone goes to a mall or shopping center, will there be many stores there anymore? in general, i feel like my son was forever going to the american dream world -- do they become internet entertainment centers? you have rebranded your own name to some degree. this become more about the shopping or the experience? >> it depends upon which part of the industry you're talking about. used the example of a very large destination. the american dream. it has a huge percentage of

entertainment experiential type of things. that suits that environment and that use very well. if you are going to target or walmart or costco, that is surrounded much more about traditional retail. it is different and that's the point. oftentimes, the conversation gets simple fight about the mall sector specifically. but the industry is much broader than that. as far as the malls, you will see and you have even pre-pandemic you saw a big shift away from traditional. a smart thing to do, then the pandemic happened that hit that part of the industry heart. i think that will prove fruitful as we emerge from the pandemic. i think you will contingency those regional destinations and consumer destinations that draw people in from a large source of

the population will continue to be very diverse and what they have to offer. then the retail centers close to where people live will be much more retail oriented. romaine: talk more about those types of shopping centers. the ones who have stores where gay to go or at least you have a reason to go more frequently because they sell a lot of household goods and other things that are much more necessity than just once. i am curious as to how they held up during the pandemic because there was still a shift to a lot of folks discovering that you could buy a lot of stuff online versus getting it delivered. we saw people attacked -- adept to that and curbside pickup. how did shopping centers addressed -- adjust to those trends? >> well and i think those things are here to stay. your previous guest talked about the supply chain challenges and

logistics challenges. those particular retailers are very well situated. the ability of offering the convenience of ordering something online with the immediacy of coming and picking it up in the store is a very beneficial option. in so many ways, not the least of which it is a much more profitable model. if you have taken the distribution costs out of having to ship to someone's house, but you are allowing someone the option to come and get up in the store, then those costs go away and your profit margin. then if you can encourage the people to come into your store, that gives you another opportunity to engage with that consumer. those stores have really become consumer hubs. romaine: how does this all shake out? i have been to quite a few malls and shopping centers and there is a huge disparity in terms of the volume of people there

versus shopping centers that have bursary stores and target and necessity type stores versus the mega malls where you will go and hang out. i'm curious as to whether there is some sort of melding of those models or whether those models continue to go in a separate direction. >> within the mall sector, there is -- there are strong malls doing very well. some are more challenged. the use of that real estate might find other purposes. whether it's office or residential and so forth. the regional malls that are doing well, i think you will continue to see them do well. and probably add other features to make it a mixed use environment. i think retailers however are becoming more open to -- to locating within both malls and open air centers.

those lines are begin to blur. that depends on an individual retailer strategy. clearly, the advantage of those retailers, the properties that are close to suburban centers, that is a very significant advantage. romaine: you are seeing that in urban areas when there carving out. thank you to our guest. we are going to continue this conversation about retail. it takes a lot to get an e-commerce project up and running. one of the big companies here helping other because -- companies get their stuff online and to the customers. that's coming up.

this is bloomberg. ♪

romaine: the future of retail is already here. talking about online shopping, it has been growing consistently for years. last year, we saw tremendous growth as the pandemic worst people indoors and had no choice to buy things online. caroline: all demographics as well. it's notable which countries have highest penetration. china has 27%. not surprising when they get their food delivered by robot. the u.k. is also very much akin to this. it's interesting -- romaine: do they have robots in the u.k.? caroline: not yet.

only 7% penetration and india. we talk about other places where opportunities are significant. joining us to discuss how brick-and-mortar shipping -- shifting to online is our guest. software-as-a-service, digital commerce, helping your clients get online and serviced in and only channel -- omni channel weight particularly in brazil. is it as rapid of a shift as it always has been? how fast forwarded have we been by covid-19? >> i would say that before covid, the e-commerce strategy was something that vps and directors would take in and the

board members would come to the table. it's not a matter of differentiation, but survival. it changes a lot inside out from the org chart. companies enterprises are making bold decisions creating direct to consumer units. cross channels, cross-border units that have never been in their path before. it was massive, the changes that covid brought to retail and the entire world. taylor: everything we hear is that those changes are here to stay. are you hearing the same thing? >> yes. there is a big trend in the market that it was a trend before covid and now people are jumping on the table to executed. for example, it's a big trend

but not necessarily in the united states and the united states will take a big hit. it's already a reality in asia. we are reaching the united states. it already represents a big portion of the asian e-commerce market. all of these make the global trade a new reality and i can't imagine that the cross-border trade look for you guys, the three of you who already bought something online and when you open the package, came something from china? and you didn't even know that it comes from their. -- that it comes from there. this is a cross-border reality and it changes the way how we understand that organizations should work. romaine: absolutely and it's not just china. i am surprised about the other countries i have seen on the label.

i am curious why talk about how this is and reshaping not only the retail space but how we shop as consumers. there's also some concern about companies being left behind. your company deals with big companies like coca-cola and a few others. those are mega companies with a lot of money and longevity where they understand the shift. for smaller companies particularly newer companies that don't have those resources, how do they compete in that environment where those companies have deep pockets to be able to build out the omni channel strategy? >> thank you for the question. the big ones before 10 years ago, they had the advantage of the power. today, the software, it is easy and clear putting the big industry in danger. the big industries are endangered that don't have the speed to market. that's where we sit.

a one or two month project from big enterprises, this is what they want. i am very honored to serve many of them in 32 countries. all of them fighting to survival. this is a big change in the way they think. caroline: what are the risks to this global picture you paint? we know in many ways china in particular, some of the packaging and ways in which they could shift -- ship to the u.s.. is that under threat in any way? what are the weird ways in which you are seeing the globalization that so helped e-commerce being upended at this moment? >> it is a threat, but the united states will seek projects -- products coming from asia. but you can see the united

states exportation as well. i wouldn't consider this as a threat, but more an opportunity for the american corporations that now, they can take over the 160 countries in the world without having massive distribution channels, franchises, local office and this puts them in danger. the new trade will arrive and it is arriving fast. romaine: we only have about a minute left. no what you to give me some insight into latin america. we have seen a lot of companies crop up there in the few years. not just retail, but software and technology companies. this appears to be one of the faster growing segments at least globally speaking. i wonder what has been driving that and how much do you expect it to persist? >> latin america is the fastest growing marketing for the second consecutive year.

it is quite interesting. we can foresee latin america catching up with other regions. this is a massive growth that we can expect from the years to come. covid accelerates these interests of big companies, big enterprises in the be deceit -- in the b to c. this global activity will pop up with new brands, emerging markets, new companies and also big companies challenging the state of bankruptcy as well. caroline: great to have time with you. thank you and come back. romaine: that was a good

conversation. we have to bridge this topic again, because there are some a layer's to what has been going on in the retail space. taylor: repurpose think something you hit on, that we can't ignore the malls. caroline: we are going to a mall. this is bloomberg. ♪

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this is "bloomberg technology." emily: coming up next hour, more bitcoin. it's the microstrategy way. we ask our guest why he is doubling down on the cryptocurrency again. plus, what he has to say on the