caroline: from bloomberg world headquarters in new york, i am caroline hyde. today, climate is one of the main themes at the united states general assembly -- at the united nations general assembly. china is already committing to stop building new coal power -- coal powered projects abroad. commodities to shift to a greener economy. that will be our focus today.

a new boon for commodities. an opportunity for investors with a range of obscure materials. materials like rare earth will be invaluable. the group -- the clean energy transition could require as much as $170 trillion in energy supply and production in the next three decades. romaine: you mentioned rare earths, which are not all that rare. a lot of traditional metals have rallied on the back of this. aluminum, cobalt, michigan -- lithium. you talk about all of the cars tesla has been delivering. all of this requires more traditional commodities in a lot of respects and it is having a big effect. caroline: -- taylor: let's discuss more of this with our bloomberg head of clean power.

it is fascinating reading the big story that you have. what really caught my eye as the pivot away from coal more towards solar. what are the secondary opportunities that are opening up under the surface that we may not be paying attention to? >> the transition to a low carbon economy is driving this. prices for key material such as copper, aluminum, driving current demand but also in response to expected accelerated demand as part of this transition. aluminum prices earlier this year reached a 30 year high. prices on the metal exchange breached $300 per metric ton. lithium prices are up 200%. lots of opportunities out there.

caroline: a super cycle is what many call it. completely shifting toward running to focus on these cleaner commodities. how do we see demand for cobalt jumping by the next couple of decades? how much do we manage and match demand and supply? >> electric vehicle and stationary energy source, we expect it to increase around 70%. so, it is a fascinating metal, one which is very concentrated in terms of where it is sourced. around three quarters of kobold production comes from the democratic republic of congo. this is just one of a number of these commodities that investors are incredibly interested in.

romaine: in terms of the adoption of more clean energy and fuels and the like here, are other nations, other regions also participating in this? >> indeed. this is not a developed world story. the net zero pledges and increasing cost competitiveness of clean power and electric vehicles ensure that this will really become a global story. i suspect that companies and investors are still underestimating the sheer scale of this transition. as you mentioned at the beginning, this transition could require up to $173 trillion in investment in energy supply and if her structure. this is a figure and scale than most people have not yet got their heads around. taylor: the big debate that i want to try to tackle with you in two minutes, during this

transition, how to try to make it reliable if wind speeds slow down, for example, how do you maintain that reliability so we can continue that pivot to cleaner energy but also making sure we have the energy? >> it is a great question. part of this is around balancing with the disposal. you can balance wind generation with that of solar, with that of nuclear energy, geothermal, and other resources. caroline: really gate -- really great take. logan goldie scott walking us through some of the opportunities in these rare earth commodities. coming up, we will go live to the greenwich economic forum and

talk to the ceo of a company digitizing metals for investment. this is bloomberg. ♪

romaine: welcome back. today, we are focused on the future of energy, the future of commodities. one relatively new company is looking to digitize commodities trading and create tokens for digital assets.

caroline: how do you make financial markets more digitized, ensure that trading can be even smoother? at the moment, they are building a platform to digitize commodities, creating tokens for physical assets using the block chain technology. we want to know from the person leading that business as to how we are seeing the demand going. over in greenwich is the atomyze ceo along with sonali. we have this whole conversation going around the future of commodities, the future of cleaner commodities as well. how much do you see demand for the easier frictionless trading in those particular commodities right now? >> i think the demand is tremendous. atomyze is building a

tokenization platform as well as a marketplace for investing in commodities including palladium, platinum, nickel, cobalt. because of supply chain technology, you are able to include metadata. not only do you have direct title to ownership but you can track and trace where the metal came from, where it was produced, and many of the esg components. taylor: a lot of this comes in response to what institutional investors. are looking for . how much do you expect large funds to move into what you offer? >> there are two things. one is that atomyze the platform is going to offer a portfolio of commodities on the platform, so it will not only enable people to invest in one particular commodity but in a range of

assets. second, it will create liquidity in an unprecedented way. right now, there is no real way for a small or medium-sized institutional investor to access direct ownership into these products. they can own direct titles into specific inventory through the platform. taylor: and did this come from a clear esg initiative from some of those investors you were referring to? >> the demand for commodities in the marketplace today. today, one of the larger themes seems to be inflationary pressure. clearly, commodities can provide an alternative for investors looking to diversify. especially in europe but also in

the united states, the move us toward esg investing so simply stand alone investing will not cut it in the long run. they are looking for the opportunity to invest in clean energy and commodities but also ways to verify and track and trace that. it is not good enough any longer to just say your product is esg compliant, you have to prove it. gary gensler spoke about that recently, in terms of investigating some funds. i think it is a combination of access to the product, access to new products that investors cannot get their hands on today. and, a holder way to trade these types of commodities on an efficient and simple marketplace rather than bilateral or otc trades. >> there is a lot of conversation about bitcoin

versus gold. you kind of offer a convergence of the two. do you think it will be much longer before investors stop choosing? >> bitcoin has its own unique attributes to it. at atomyze, we are focused on digital assets. they do exist on block chain technology, which has proven to be safe and secure. it also has longevity in terms of transparency, ownership records. i think the investment world in general is moving toward block chain solutions because it allows them to find all the attributes they want as well as the security of the assets they want to invest in. >> you said this is mostly available to midsize institutional managers. how long will it be before the retail investor gets access to commodities via token? >> our platform thinks it is

most accessible for smaller and medium-sized investors who are not getting the services from their broker or putting on a billion dollars position in a particular commodity. it is something that efficiencies through the platform can support for them. i think for the retail public but there is a huge demand especially as you move outside of gold. gold is interesting but actually pretty accessible for any investor looking to own it. cobalt, nickel, platinum, kind of the new era of products moving forward are really creating a lot of interest from all types of investors. retail will be one segment over time. there could be distributors on the platform where there is an intermediary that is responsible. right now, we are focused on the institutional audience. romaine: our thanks to the atomyze ceo at the greenwich

economic forum. we want to build on what she was talking about. a new era of commodities in terms of how we buy and sell, but also where we source these commodities. the ceo of mp materials, which operates the only rare earth mine in the u.s., some strategic reasons why this might be necessary. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> this is a moment where the world has to decide whether it wants to grow up or not, to make a crucial change or not. mr. biden: the united states

will help developing nations tackle the climate crisis and today, i am proud to announce that we will work with the congress to double that amount again. >> it will act as an en bloc or in some of the discussions. >> 2050, our goal of achieving climate neutrality. >> korea will scale up its climate and set up a green new deal trust fund with a view toward supporting the work of global green growth. >> china will try to achieve peak emissions before 2030 and carbon neutrality before 2060. taylor: you have been listening to some of the world leaders speaking earlier today. president biden pledging to invest more in the global shift. what is interesting is biden's wanting to make the u.s. less

dependent on rare earths and other minerals. romaine: it could takeromaine: years to accomplish. of course, you remember, or maybe you don't remember, a few decades ago how dependent we were on foreign sources of oil. the shale boom transformed that for both good and bad. but it shows there is a potential to do that if you put the money in the will behind it. let's bring in the ceo of the operator of the only rare earth mine in the u.s. there was a great statistic from the department of the interior about how, as of a couple of years ago, the united states was like fully reliant on foreign sources for about 20 mineral commodities including rare earth here. i know your company has been trying to change that with regard to rare earth specifically. i wonder if you can give me the dumb down reason about why it is

important for us to be able to source more of our material at home. >> the u.s. is now at peak rare earth production relative to any time in its history. that is thanks to the work we're doing at mk materials. we are now producing more rare earths than we ever have. that is the good news. the bad news is, if you look around the world, look at the scaled investments, regardless of the world leaders and where in the bifurcated global economy you said, we will need a lot more of this stuff to tackle climate change and electrify. there is clearly hundreds of billions and into the trillions of investments coming. if we do not have these raw materials, we need to make more of them. i think we are making a lot of progress but we have a long way to go. caroline: talk to us very

basically in the u.s. how well resourced it is for these new rare earths vis-a-vis china, which we already associated with it, or even talking a lot about afghanistan and the amount of lithium in that country. how well-stocked is the u.s.? >> the big thing there, and i get asked this afghanistan question. if you have a backyard, you have rare earths. the challenges if you have enough to make it economic to separate. it requires a multibillion dollars. afghanistan, you are really talking about into the many billions of investments, the roads, the power supply. i think we will probably be processing rare earths on the moon before afghanistan. what i would say is that we have the capacity to do this in the

u.s. we believe we are actually the low cost producer to the world and we are doing it in an environmentally friendly way. this capacity, we have it all, we just actually have to focus. but it takes time to do all of this. 's ro i am curious, there is some concern here that we are putting all this effort into mining this stuff, yet a lot of what those rare earths go into, those products are actually not made here in the u.s., so effectively we are just taking something out of the ground and sending it off to whatever country. >> that is right. if you buy your smart phone or electric vehicle, the odds are almost 100% that the magnet inside that product came from china. we could have all the rare earth in the world in the u.s., we would still be sending it to china.

need to think of magnets as almost a cousin of semiconductors and maybe the semiconductor issue is kind of the ghost of christmas future. we need to restore that. like to the united states of america and that is obviously the mission of our country. -- of our company. romaine: i know right now you are kind of at the very front of the line with regards to the supply chain. is there a realistic possibility that we make the intermediate inputs and the end products in the u.s., particularly given a lot of the concerns about labor costs as well as the environmental issues? talking about climate change and all the things we need to do to sort of treat the earth better. >> every commodity is different but rare earth, the good news is we are actually leading the way.

we have -- not to get into the minutia of what it means in the mining material space, but we recycle 95% of our water. the united states of america today has the second largest producer in the world, the lowest cost producer in the world. we actually can do this, it just takes a lot of investment. it is less about just labor costs than having the proper focus. at mp, we are years and billions ahead of others trying to do this. as i stressed earlier, we can't just focus on the rare earth. we have to go to the magnets. if we had rare earth for free, everywhere around the country, we would still be sending that off to china because the consumers watching this program, when they buy their smart phone or ev, that magnet inside is made in china. we need to at least offer

alternatives. it should be a competitive field out there. we need to at least make sure that some of that supply chain can be sourced holy in the united states. you asked me, can we do this? absolutely, we can do this. we are doing it and we will make this happen. caroline: fascinating as always to have you with us. it is kind of fascinating, we all talked about off shoring, now suddenly we are de-globalizing and on shoring. boss row this does become sort of a full supply --romaine: this does become sort of a full supply chain issue. when do we get to that point? and do you need more government involvement to sort of move that along? taylor: we started off this conversation talking about the willingness to get there.

is there enough willingness at this moment in new york when you have these dignitaries flying in. it sure sounds like it but when they go home, is there a willingness to continue that? "bloomberg technology" is next. boss romaine: this is bloomberg. ♪

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