tv Bloomberg Daybreak Europe Bloomberg October 14, 2021 1:00am-2:01am EDT
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fed minutes suggest tapering as soon as next month. bank of america, morgan stanley, and citigroup report later. we break down the figures this hour. plus, revenge of value trading. we speak to the chairman and founder of research affiliates about the market bubble and the revival of cheaper stocks. looking forward to that conversation. very good morning. i've got a conundrum. i don't understand. inflation at the highest since 2008. core inflation is up there at a 25 year high. tapir is set to begin. why is the bond yield dropping? is it more worried about growth? dani: good morning. is this a recession signal? it's not just a conundrum for us, it's the return of the greenspan conundrum. this is something that was
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flagged at not alliance. when you have this move lower in the 10 year yield, buying on the long end as rate expectations pick up. it's indeed a conundrum for both of those strategists. they say this is all positioning. perhaps it will be short-lived. manus: short covering is a great excuse to cover everything. i put it to the chart. we looked at it this morning. we will have a disagreement about the quality of the rep up and inflation. this is the 20 month average. let's take a look at it. it's running at a 25 year high. the month-to-month changes are two core cpi. we are worried about a substantial rise in the new york consumer inflation numbers. this is the chart that matters. this goes to the core of the inflation narrative. dani: yeah.
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you can look at some of the segments of cpi -- to tilt our hat to ben emmons again. when you see these places reversing, it's not unusual for investors to expect cpi to reverse again. perhaps that's a good reason to buy. a voracious appetite for that 30 year option yesterday. manus: it wasn't allocated as equally as the street would have liked it. tech had a winning hand. dani: they did. lower bond yields helping those long-duration assets intact. 3/10 of 1%, tenure selling as well. i wanted to point out zinc at a three year high in london because of the energy crisis. zinc factories putting their capacity at 50% of what it usually is. that's a skyrocket higher there. brent crude above $83 a barrel. manus: let's take the inflation
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discussion further to china. inflation the highest since 1995. juliette saly is losing control. shocking headlines. is it really important? ? juliette: it is when you start to think about these differences passing on higher costs to consumer. let's have a look at the chart of cpi. this big diversion's that you are seeing between china's factory gain inflation which was 10.7%. we are looking at u.s. inflation now and cpi. this is really adding to this chorus. you will see a 50 basis point cut to the rrr. bloomberg economics saying that the pboc has room to maneuver. let's look at how it has flowed through. there's a beautiful chart on the gtv. let's have a look at how it flowed through the markets.
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we have seen weakness coming through in china's equity market. elsewhere, growth straw -- stocks pushing higher. the nikkei doing very well in supporting asian equities. it's just about this reopening theme as well. monetary authority in singapore tightening. they are worried about inflation. have a look at the indonesian yeah. bali is reopening to tourists including the uae. dani: thanks so much. juliette with all the charts, whether she wants them or not. let's stick with that u.s. picture. u.s. inflation coming in harder than expected, underscoring the perspective of price pressures. a tapering of bond purchases from mid-november. let's bring in our bloomberg opinion columnist. i know you m&s might have a difference of opinion but i won't wait into that water. is transitory still the best way
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to describe inflation, given what we saw in the cpi data yesterday? >> i'm struggling to think of a better word. they don't want to go back to contained. that became a tainted word in the aftermath of 2008. atlanta fed president says it's a swearword and they have to put money in a jar every time the term is used. that will be the first question jay powell is asking after the november fomc meeting. they will have to come up with another word. i would love to be a fly on the wall in the division of monetary affairs at the fed building in washington. they are the focus on what to say. they are going through their thesaurus. maybe even now. manus: bill gross says we will see 2% in bond yields by the end of next year.
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larry summers has slammed the fed for their woken us. do you think it a -- plays any part in a delay? daniel: that's a tough one to get into. i don't think elizabeth warren would accuse larry summers of being woke. they've made it very clear, the fed, that they are interested in broader underlying measures of employment that go beyond the monthly rate that we get in the first friday of every month. you have to go back before the pandemic before saying that gains won't spread equally among societies. have they overcompensated for that? it's a possibility. it's a stretch to say woke. manus: those are larry words,
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not yours or mine. thank you very much. to the banks. bank of america will kick off a busy day-to-day in terms of the report cards. jp morgan's mixed numbers. let's bring in our finance editor, adam hyde. good to have you with us. a little bit of worry we had yesterday on the consumer and corporate landing. how important is today for the likes of city? adam: yeah. obviously huge. it's a big day in terms of getting the full perspective across some of the other big banks. let's just go back to jp morgan for a moment. if you look at some of the basics, it was a pretty basic set. 26% or so ahead of expectations. you have this continuation of
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the covid provisions. another 1.5 billion will come out of that. even with the investment banking close, the feeling that things aren't on the page that they have been in in prior quarters, that's their story really. how much of this is slowing down , less of that money being released back for the worst of the pandemic. investment banking trends have been very strong. not really delivering to the excitement that they want. that's really why you saw the stock and up higher yesterday. that will be the big test for city and bank of america later. dani: all right. thanks for staying across that for us. we will be monitoring remarks on the third quarter earnings call from bank chiefs throughout the day. we will start off with the morgan stanley cbo who is due to speak around 3:30 p.m. u.k. time. we also have gregory brock a of
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markets. is this a temporary issue? i believe it is. in the sense that covid is a one-off and it has created a spike. u.s. china is already ahead of where they were pre-covid. europe will be there in q1. i think energy is a factor. hopefully, it is part of the broader picture of how we green the economy at a cost that we can afford and that is fair. whether the cost is borne by everybody in a fair way. you have a great -- >> you have a great snapshot of the world because you have a view of the emerging markets. what worries you about what we are living throughout the moment, economically? >> let me say the positive first. we are in a much better place than a year ago. 6% global growth for this year, 4% for next year. it's actually pretty good.
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i think that's one thing. the other is government, especially in the developed world, is very much making sure that businesses survive. i think those are very positive signals. the other one is that it's been a huge amount of savings. in 2020, increased savings by 110 billion. that's almost 10% of gdp. on the risk side, what happens with the excess government debt? what happens when businesses and people are taking -- taken off of life support? do they go back to being in a regular situation and able to cope? is inflation temporary? those are the issues we need to tackle. manus: speaking exclusively with francine lacqua about the state of the world. it's a conundrum. everybody's debating it. martin malone does this on the
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day by day basis. you and i and danny can debate why bond yields are going over state in a moment. chile, back to back rate hikes. 225 basis points of hikes in chile. it's a bit of a shock to get does it set a precedent? martin: good morning. yes it does. it is quite important. the 75% of the population is fully vaccinated. the vaccination rate is as good as any advanced economy and that really dramatically changed between q2 and q3. they had a very small hike and then they have rapidly hiked in the last two or three policy meetings. this is simply because, they are very close to what's going on in america.
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the so-called supply chain problems. we have to watch very carefully. chile is exactly the same as the netherlands, population wise. that signal that we saw from chile at the end of august shocked us. that's why we became very bearish, particularly in relation to advanced economies hiking and especially the bank of england hiking on november 4. dani: are you then, given the context of what chile has done and the closeness to america, are you expecting perhaps, perhaps it is not a surprise, more surprise hawkish and is coming from the fed? martin: we are always expecting hawkish is from the fed. the issue that the fed has is that they -- their new regime of average inflation targeting is from the last few decades. the big problem is that central banks have predicted that inflation would go up and it
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never did. the fed's new policy is, they are going to wait until they see it. we now have quite significant near-term inflation measures. we are not expecting inflation levels to rollover quickly. we don't fear 4, 5, 6% inflation levels over the horizon at all. >> taper in early november. last week, you said to me, we have to look through growth. we have to look through the delta. you are not worried about inflation. what does that do to the equity narrative of the portfolio? does 60/40 still work? martin: yes.
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to a certain extent, except we would fade it and continually expect that it should be more like 7030. in relation to your equity. we are very bullish equities. we are very bullish growth. we expect significant growth upside in q4 and in q1. for instance, if you see the delays in the supply chain, los angeles and long beach ports, they have had a 60 hour work week. over the next six months, they have reached double that. along the supply chain, the retailers in the logistic providers have also decided to step up. basically, america is going to see movement like they've never seen in the next three to six months. dani: as you describe it, your glasses half full when it comes to the corporate pictures.
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for those who aren't, what are they getting wrong about the pessimism about the supply chain and about the results coming this earnings season? martin: what they are getting wrong is focusing on the short-term and focusing on the narrative. we really have to downgrade near-term news stories and near-term narratives as they are not telling us anything about the medium-term horizon. when the bank of england am a which we will expect will hike on november 4, that hike in interest rates is for december of 23, 18 months out. it takes a long time for the economy to change it interest rate structure. central banks are hiking rates because of 2023, not because of q4 or christmas 2021. manus: you are calling for a
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rate hike in the united kingdom this november. what size and scale? martin: they should hike interest rates from .1 2.5. we should have a 40 basis point hike. there are some central banks that are rapidly accelerating the rate hikes. the bank of a lid will not do that. they will be a little bit more cautious than what we would recommend a 40 basis points. i expect the first hike would probably be 20 or 25 basis points. the issue with the bank of in glenda's they have trigger points for end of qe, unlike the fed. they will no longer reinvest on their portfolio. at 1%, they will start selling the bonds into the market. the fed has never given us any indication overall of trigger points. a much clearer outlook from the bank giving wind. the bank of england is the most
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activist central bank of all advanced economies and they are unfortunately behind here in relation to actually monetary tightening. dani: given all that, what happens to sterling? what do you do with it now? manus: -- martin: sterling unfortunately is a difficult call. we are very positive the dollar. last year, the dollar was -10%. with global monetary tightening, we have -- fiscal is not tightening but we had a bridge on fiscal for the last two years where we had 20% of gdp in fiscal. fiscal is not as big as those numbers. doesn't have to be. the economies have recovered. but global currency tightening, the dollar is much higher. on cable, we are not very positive on sterling at all. in fact, with the fiscal tightening we are seeing in the u.k. over the next three years, monetary tightening will now
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start imminently. something has to declined to balance that. sterling is going to be the -- the projection will burden -- depend on job growth. if we see 80,000 jobs per month, sterling could do well. we need to see significant jobs. if that doesn't happen, sterling risk is much larger than the monetary and fiscal mix. manus: we are looking at cable and the moment. euro sterling. we can grab a euro sterling chart for you in a moment. how much downside risk are you talking about? does the currency do the having list -- heavy lifting? does that manifest more in euro sterling than a dozen cable? martin: if we go back to the supply chain disruptions in the united states, they have around four different ministers,
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transport ministers, commerce ministers, all parts of the government have now basically stood up to try to fix the supply chain disruptions. america doesn't have an energy problem to the same extent that the u.k. has. if we have a bed winter in relation to energy or logistics and supply chain problems in the u.k., that will upset the economic factor and will upset the jobs profile. the whole issue on the currency is the jobs profile going forward. the u.k. is not taking the risks seriously enough to fix them. we call this the political pandemic. there's a huge risk that political leaders do not take rapid actions. dani: the political pandemic. great to have you want to get your thoughts this morning. that's martin malone. take you for joining us. coming up, the chairman and founder of research affiliates joins us. we discuss the age-old debate of
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♪ manus: this is bloomberg daybreak era. let's get your first word news with truly at sally. juliette: the eu and u.k. have raised a new round of negotiations in london over the coming days over the trade barrier in northern ireland. brussels slashing custom checks into the territory by half and cut senatorial inspections on many resales. the british say the existing arrangement is unworkable. police are considering an
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incident that saw five people killed into injured in a bow and arrow attack. the assailant is suspected of acting alone when he walked around shooting in the center of concord, a town about a mile from auckland. police say that officers around the country will be temporary armed as a result of the incident. the turkish lira has dropped to a record low against the dollar after president erdogan fired three members of the central banks ratesetting committee and a midnight decree. bloomberg understands the changes are about members who disagreed with the call to continue cutting interest rates despite high inflation. global news 24 hours a day on air and at bloomberg quicktake, powered by 2700 journalists and analysts in 120 countries. this is bloomberg. dani: thanks so much. coming up next, the chairman and founder of research affiliates is here in the studio with us. value versus growth.
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a veteran of the investment industry. why now is a once in a decade opportunity to buy value. this is bloomberg. ♪ this halloween, xfinity rewards is offering up some spooky-good perks. like the chance to win a universal parks & resorts trip to hollywood or orlando to attend halloween horror nights. or xfinity rewards members, get the inside scoop on halloween kills. just say "watch with" into your voice remote for an exclusive live stream with jamie lee curtis. a q&a with me! join for free on the xfinity app. our thanks your rewards. baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. adorable, but does yours block malware?
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fed minutes suggest tapering as soon as next month. earnings season ramps up for u.s. banks. jp morgan's loan growth disappoints investors. the revenge of value trading. we will speak about market bubbles and the revival of cheaper stocks. good morning, manus. breaking earnings news in the chips space. manus: we have indeed. taiwan semi conductors. let's have a look at it. this rapid demand, the stoked up demand. the gross margin comfortably beating as well. this all comes where you have
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the hyundai motors coo saying that the chip crunch, the worst may be over for the auto sector. that is according to the hyundai global chief operating officer. i think that a significant. the tliv is live. dani: tsmc has vastly underperformed its peers in both the u.s. and taiwan. manus: indeed, but the markets are debating the inflection point of where we are on inflation. bonds are rolling over. let's look at your equity board. let's have a quick flash mob of what is going on. equities are higher, bonds are lower. we have a global commodity rising prices across the spectrum. three year high on zinc.
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is this enough to get the white house to call his royal highness and go, hello, can we have a little bit of oil please? you saw bank of america talking about $100 oil. dani: good morning, manus. every day there is a new of secure commodity going to a multiyear high. let's get to the conversation of the day. value versus growth. in recent years, we have seen cheaper stocks underperforming that of growth, but the tables started to turn with a partial rebound. our next guest says it is not too late to take advantage of the come back. in multi-decade veteran investor in the industry, he writes hundreds of research papers that are very well read. his name is synonymous with smart beta and indexing technologies. thank you so much for joining us this morning. really fantastic to have you in london with us in person.
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you wrote a paper last month saying it is not too late, that this is a once in a decade horde might take multiple decades to see this kind of opportunity to go by value. why is this time so unique? rob: there is always the spread between the pricing of growth and value stocks. it sometimes widens out and then narrows. it is something known as mean reversion. mean reversion is one of the most powerful factors that work in the capital market. one spreads become unusually wide, there is very high likelihood that they will close back in. when they become unusually narrow, very high likelihood they will widen back out. 2007, they were very narrow. it is unsurprising that that was the beginning of some difficult years for value. they then widened out during last summer to the widest spread ever, even wider than the peak
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of the tech bubble, which means tech stocks in this tech bubble are more expensive than the tech bubble of 2000 and value is a bigger part. the snapback from september to may was profound. 20 percentage point spread. then we get back about half of that. in response to the covid delta waves. this brings us to valuation spreads that are not quite as extreme as they were last summer , but are in fact more extreme still than they were at the peak of the tech bubble. it would require value beating growth by about 74 percentage points to get back to a normal spread. manus: good morning, lovely to meet you, albiet apart. how do you recommend -- martin
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malone has said we will work 24 hours a day in the u.s. ports of l.a., logistics will ramp up -- that is going to embolden the value trade for you. is it u.s. value you want to be longer off? where is the strongest value proposition for you? rob: value relative to growth is roughly equally cheap in the u.s. and emerging markets. a little less so in europe, but what is very interesting to note is that the market itself is expensive in the u.s. you have valuations roughly 38 times, a schiller p/e ratio. the forward-looking returns are likely to dissipate. that is where we are in the u.s. value relative to growth looks terrific, but value in the u.s. merely looks moderately attractive and growth, very
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overextended. in emerging markets, the market itself is less than half as expensive as the u.s. market and value is quite drastically cheaper than the broad market, which means that emerging markets value represented extraordinary opportunity. the same can be said about u.k. value. dividend yields are nearly twice that of the u.s. and in addition to that, the spread is very wide. even if there is no mean reversion, even if value remains as cheap as it is today forever, you are looking at value beating growth by 2% to 3% a year. dani: you mentioned the bubble of tech. there are many tech balls who would disagree with that -- tech bulls who would disagree with that. how would you characterize the
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frothiness of tech stocks? what are those supporters of the sector getting wrong? rob: it is interesting. the supporters will tend to point to the growth prospects of the businesses and i'm a huge fan of disruption. i'm a huge fan of innovation. i'm a huge fan of many of these very same companies. it does not mean i'm a huge fan of their stock prices. how much do you have to pay for that future growth? someone quipped in the 2000 bubble that the markets were discounting not only future prospects of these growth companies, but the hereafter. that is where we are today. a lot of these growth companies are priced at levels where you would have to make utterly implausible long-term growth assumptions to justify the current price. dani: not to hit a lightning rod, but last month you had a
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pretty public debate with cathie wood. it was very fun to watch. we continue to see these inflows into art etf. should investors really be running for the hills instead of running into these types of funds? rob: i'm going to be cautious here because bubbles can last longer and go further than anyone can possibly imagine. i would say that if you are thinking of buying tech, some of these frothy growth names, ask yourself, what is my exit strategy? if you don't have an exit strategy, don't go in. you will write it up and all the way back down. i liken it to picking up nichols in front of a steamroller. it is very, very dangerous. rob: i like to play in the middle of big, fast, moving roads. we had a guest before you, martin, we ended up talking about chile.
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he expects the bank of england to raise rates in the next meeting. the intricacies of that i don't want to dwell on with you. he called for a drop in the pound, a rising of rates more aggressively than the market perhaps presumes in the united kingdom. would you buy in the u.k.? rob: yes, i would. the u.k. is priced terrific. think of it this way. if markets are vulnerable because of a risk of a tightening by central bankers, than markets that are expensive like the u.s. are particularly vulnerable in markets that are cheap are less so. if the growth mavens turn out to be correct and the surge in growth in the coming 3-5 years
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justifies current valuations for the u.s., than the u.k. has a huge amount of catching up to do. in one case, you have downside risk and not a lot of upset opportunity. and the other case, you have huge upset opportunity, not much downside risk. it is a beautiful asymmetry. dani: in terms of some of the oddities of the market we have seen over the past few years. at this point, does it seem to you that fundamentals matter at all? rob: to the market, no. ben graham famously said in the 1940's, the stock market in the short run is a voting machine, in the long run it is a winning machine. the weight of the future growth prospects is very light relative to the price. if tesla saw its profits grow by 50% per year for the next 10
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years, that would mean profits 10 years from now are 55 times as large as they are today. if that happened and you discount that back to today, you get a fair value. do i think it is going to go 50% a year? no. amazon grew 27% a year. the projection of 50% growth means five times as much growth over the next 10 years. i don't see tesla growing faster in the coming decade than amazon did in the last decade and you would have to assume five times that growth to justify half of today's price. manus: which takes us to the top line on what you think about tech valuation. you say hi evaluation shares in danger investors.
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how much of a repricing and growth for tech are you seriously expecting? what is the trigger to that? rob: i love the catalyst question because whatever the catalyst is it has got to come as a surprise to most of the market, otherwise it would not be a catalyst. there are many possibilities. i love to frame things in the context of a very simple question. what is going on today that will matter in five years? covid? nope. current supply shocks? nope. soaring debt and deficit? in my good, yes -- oh my goodness, yes. these things point to value doing fine and tech reverting. i love the question, what matters five years from now because it can help us clear the
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noise out of the way and think sensibly about long-term prospects. dani: talk to us about the expectation gap and how big of a worry this is for you? rob: well sure. the expectations gap is much bigger in the u.s. than the u.k. you have investors in the u.s. expecting that their 401(k) portfolios will give them 8% or 10% returns, as much as we have seen over the last 10, 30 years. the simple fact is that that last 30 years started at valuation levels much lower, bond yields much higher than they are today and we have seen this transition to much higher valuations and much lower bond yields. you've got to change your expectations.
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we have a website called asset allocation interactive that gives people forward-looking expected returns. our outlook for u.s. large-cap stocks is 1% per year below inflation. if you want to make 1% on your money, u.s. stocks is a good place to do that. u.k. stocks, u.k. value you get 5% more than that. 11% annualized return. where do you want to go? out-of-favor markets that are unloved and cheap? or popular, trendy, frothy markets where everybody has wonderful expectations and those expectations are built into prices? manus: i like the way that you cast the mindset forward. sometimes we get lost in the daily minutia of read headlines on the bloomberg terminal.
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take me forward five years. take me forward five years, will re-recover from this energy crisis -- we recover from this energy crisis? rob: energy is one of those areas that is wildly out-of-favor and pretty darn cheap, so we were hearing stories of stranded assets, that the oil companies would never be able to profitably extract. that might have been true at $40 oil, but it is not true at $80 oil. one of the things that is often overlooked, whatever your opinion on global warming, whatever your opinion on carbon stocks, there is a very simple fact and that is coal, oil, natural gas comprise about 83% of all energy consumed in the world.
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the most optimistic projections are 70% in 10 years, 60% in 20 years. that means that energy extraction from carbon is going to be with us for a very long time and the projections aren't that you go to 60% in a context of production and demand for carbon falling. it is that the proportion falls is the overall energy consumption increases. whatever one's view on whether that is wise or not, that is the most optimistic scenario. oil is going to be with us for a long time and it is cheap. dani: so fantastic to have you in with us. anytime you are in london, you are always welcome on the set. manus? manus: thank you. great conversation with rob. transitioning toward a climate friendly future. we just heard rob say energy is cheap. our interview is next.
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>> most of us are net zero in our own operations and the big thing is how do we help our customers transition to green? we need a common language. we call it taxonomy. what is green? we need to ensure that stress tests are lined across countries and regions. we need to have countries that have governments that have policies that are common. we do need the clarity of coordination across the world. >> will we get it? if you look at some of the anxiousness in banks, partly because of asset managers, partly because it doesn't really help with the root of the problem they say. how much more will be done in
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the next two months? >> i think covid has helped us because we have realized we depend on each other and it is the same for climate change. even though some people say you are not seeing it, you see a lot of the signs that we are in a very dangerous path. i think the consciousness that it has to happen now and it has to happen working together is very much with us in the private sector, so there is a real push for coordination happening and for having clarity. what is green? how do you measure? what do we do about it? >> the eu changed some of their metrics, saying some of their products should not be labeled green and they were in the past. will we see a similar move? >> that is a goal that we have. we have more alignment in of the global standards.
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we need to speak the same language, otherwise it will not be done in the right way. my biggest concern is not leaving customers behind. we see that with the energy price increase. going green will have a cost, but it is also a huge opportunity for business and investment, so doing it in a way that we can bring along the more vulnerable customers, the developing economies that are not starting in the same place as us. in brazil and mexico, people need a home. how do we get this done in a fair way across different countries and sectors? manus: that was the banco santander german speaking to francine lacqua. tsmc reported third-quarter numbers. it is a beat. we discussed. this is bloomberg. ♪
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manus: this is bloomberg daybreak europe. we have the numbers from tsmc and it is a beat. demand for chips stayed robust. we know that in spite of a worsening supply chain. let's get to our senior editor on tech. we have the numbers. what has driven the growth? >> yes, it looks strong across the board. tsmc has the largest contract maker of chips is really still enjoying from the boom and demand and everything from cars to smartphones to gaming consoles to personal computers.
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consumers are just snapping up gadgets and devices and tsmc is enjoying the growth and benefiting as a result. dani: if that is the positive, what is the negative? it has not all been rosy for the chip industry. >> there are certainly a lot of risks or a lot of things to look out for. margins has been one cause of concern and that is a result of capacity constraints in the chip supply system. right now, it seems like tsmc's margins for the latest quarter were stronger-than-expected, so that is a good sign. we will want to see going forward how the industry will deal with the crunch and how tsmc in particular will deal with pricing and capacity to
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