caroline: i'm caroline hyde. the former treasury secretary right here. taylor: there we go, caroline. you sounded like a million miles away, but now you are here. i'm taylor riggs in new york. [laughter] caroline: we have had some

really fabulous conversations while here, trying to tackle some of the world's key challenges as we see them. first and foremost, challenges to infrastructure. we will talk about supply chain issues with elaine chao. we have got also plenty of fabulous conversations coming up when it comes to crypto and the like. first and foremost, whether it be in the markets, whether at the bright minds act milken, inflation, supply chain, and a healthy dose of crypto conversations. let's have a listen to what they are saying. >> i think 70% of the coins out there today are garbage and will go away. the question is, just like the internet bubble, which of the companies survive? >> my son and i lived together during the pandemic and he gave me a lecture every day on the

fact that i had opined about bitcoin without knowing what i was talking about, which is true. >> i can tell you it is a value but i can't tell you you should short it because it is likely to be higher in the coming months. >> you have to push out the risk curve and go into new or odd things. >> if you want to be long cryptocurrency, probably now is not a bad time to get long. caroline: let's dig into those investments later into the program. we speak to michael sonnenshein, grayscale investments ceo. they are turning their biggest bitcoin funds into an etf. now we will talk supply chains. one of the key areas of travel to focus on. taylor: we are getting earnings from united airlines and third-quarter results. bear with me. they are first of all saying they are on track to meet their 2022 goals.

third-quarter operating revenue $7.8 billion. third-quarter passenger revenue that is up. $6.6 billion versus estimates of $7 billion. but they are on track to meet their 2022 target. you are only looking at a loss of $1.02. this is an improvement over an expected loss per share of $ 1.61. looking at fourth-quarter revenue, capacity is lighter than the fourth-quarter of 2019. when we think about where we were pre-pandemic, still lighter in terms of capacity, but united saying their planes are returning to service. we are looking for them what they hope to be a bright 2022 as i take you through the horse race of all the numbers. caroline: away from the horse

race, air cargo has been something that companies are depending more on. our supply chains have become unstuck, whether it is trying to shift from asia to the u.s., truck drivers, rail, the transportation and between, we have to take deeper. elaine chao is with us, former u.s. secretary of labor and transportation. joining me, a woman who knows business and understands shipping. what do you make of the supply chain issues? >> wea -- we are in a globalized economy. the interconnection between freight and the destination and origin points are very important. we for decades relied upon just in time delivery. now we are beginning to find there are real vulnerabilities i n the supply process. i think we as a nation and world need to focus more attention on intermodalism.

that is a way of saying that the connecting point between different modes of transportation need to be integrated more smoothly. aside from that, the return of the economy and the pent up demand by people throughout the world are just increasing tremendous demands on goods and services. at a time when the supply of workers and supply of key components and raw materials are clearly constrained. supply and demand are not at a match right now. caroline: it has been a perfect storm that needs to be solved with public and private focus. you bridged that gap. what do you think leads us from here? does it have to come from the administration or private? elaine: i think the government can do a lot, but the government can also help by not doing too much. first, i think the regulation of

our economy needs to be carefully guided. there is a propensity to increase regulation. that will have a real economic cost on our economic recovery. there are new regulations being considered. i would urge the government be more careful. caroline: like what? elaine: there is something called the hours of service. that applies to truck drivers, how many hours truck drivers are required to spend on the road and not spend on the road. we had in the previous and ministrations implemented -- previous administration implement it new rules. we hear there is additional momentum to tight -- to tighten them further. i think that would be deleterious for the economy. what we need right now is less red tape, greater flexibility to ease the supply chain obstacles

we are saying. caroline: the last part is about paying people more. and i skills cap. -- elaine: and a skills gap. we have employers who are desperately looking for workers. we have basically 11 million vacant jobs in this country at a time when our economy is trying to come back. we need workers to come back to work because they are absolutely essential to ensuring that our economy can come back. i think the government has a role to play in that the government must not compete with the private sector in compensation of workers. caroline: you are on board. you joined the board of a company that is trying to navigate the statistical nightmare as it stands. how are you consulting? do you say you need to pay them more? elaine: it is a great company.

what is happening is usually there is 7% to 10% of items that are not in the inventory chain. those missing items jumped to 14% to 18%. there are more items missing from the shelves. that is obviously an indication that the supply chain is under stress. consumers get shortchanged and can't find the items they need. this is happening all across the economy. it goes back to the regulatory approach the government can take on the economy. we all want to be protected. we all want to make sure the environment and safety is taken care of, but there is an overly intrusive hand on our economy that the government needs to be careful. caroline: i want to go back to

your time in the previous administration. do you regret not investing more of that time? did you have the ability to invest in some of these supply chain issues that you wish you had? elaine: the previous administration had an infrastructure bill as well. we were never able to persuade the democrats to embrace public-private partnerships. the big debate was about whether it should be one for one dollar investment. the public-private partnership can bridge the demand for 100% deficit financing, which will also have an adverse impact on our economy. not having the infrastructure bill passed was a disappointment, but we invested in infrastructure dollars. this is a transportation infrastructure.

that means roads, bridges, transport, airport. i hope the new infrastructure bill put forth by this administration will eventually get past. i am optimistic. -- get passed. right now the infrastructure bill is held hostage to the budget reconciliation. all the action is on the democrat side. moderates and progressives are disagreeing with how much to spend. the standalone bill, i am hopeful that will eventually move before year end. caroline: there are tensions within the democrat party, but within the republican party as well. are you proud of what the republican party is now? elaine: i have always been -- caroline: you are a political family. elaine: i have always been a bipartisan person.

i have worked always on policy. as a former secretary of transportation -- caroline: you are proud? elaine: transportation infrastructure is important for the competitiveness of our country. i have always been for more investment in transportation infrastructure. that is the debate, because there are lots of other infrastructure. newly defined as infrastructure, that is a basis for the disagreement on both sides of the aisle. caroline: elaine chao with her delicately put between public and private focus. taylor: it is pretty incredible, caroline. you might want to zip up to san francisco. take a look at this. i'm looking at the price of bitcoin, another record high, $6 4,300 on a day where we had the etf futures start trading today.

some other big news that we saw as well. grayscale filing to convert its $40 billion bitcoin trust also into an etf. we do it next with the grayscale ceo, michael sonnenshein. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: it was a big day for crypto. earlier this morning, we saw trading of the proshares bitcoin futures etf. a nice increase in the morning around 10:30. it has turned negative, but we ended up near the highs of the session, all of which as the

price of bitcoin at a near record. all of this is really interesting in the midst of the conversations you are having at milken. you spoke earlier with the global cio of guggenheim, saying this trading of the bitcoin futures etf is pretty interesting. >> this coin in and of itself is difficult. you end up -- you have to be in something that is a tradable vehicle like an etf. i think the etf is an interesting development. caroline: let's stick with this focus of institutional money getting into crypto. michael sonnenshein is with us, grayscale investment ceo joining us from new york in an exclusive conversation. on the heels of this new bitcoin futures etf, you are filing to turn your grayscale investment trust into an etf, right?

how quickly do you think that might happen? michael: thank you for having me. we have been on the show talking about this before. the grayscale team has been working on the approval of a spot it coin pdf for many years. -- bitcoin etf for many years. only recently we have seen the sec change their temperature in allowing these products in the market. in seeing a futures based etf debuting today successfully, we think it opens the door towards physically backed etf's having their time in the market as well. taylor: what does that do for you, a trust into an etf? how does that change the way you are thinking about it? michael: our team has always had public market aspirations for the grayscale bitcoin trust. it actually has the exact same legal structure and a lot of commodity-based etf's. anybody who holds gbtc today

would not actually have to do anything upon a successful conversion to an etf. the product would simply up list to the new york stock exchange, who we selected as our partner for the etf. there would be simultaneous creations and redemptions that would allow gbtc to trade with its underlying net asset value. caroline: michael, what did you have to persuade gary gensler of? he has very much only wanted a futures etf. yes, it mutes you perhaps on some of the upsides, but what is that you need to convince regulators of to allow a spot etf? michael: i think we need to focus on what regulators have said historically about their discomfort with the underlying bitcoin market. historically they have been post on things like fraud and manipulation, -- focused on

things like fraud and manipulation. i would say the commentary we have seen out of the commission, as well as the approval of the first futures based coin etf on the market would tell a story that a lot of those fears would be cleared up. when we really zoom out and think about the difference between a spot based etf from a pricing perspective, these are two inter-correlated markets, where futures are derivative of spot. having futures in the market could clear the pathway for physically backed products as well. taylor: you saw the and some of the analyst notes today. mark palmer was one, comparing the futures to the spot, like you have to crawl sometimes before you walk. on the flipside, you think about the run-up we had, $64,300 one measure we are tracking on spot bitcoin. do you worry the price is getting ahead of itself? michael: i think what we have seen time and again is investors

being bullish about bitcoin at 5000, 50,000, and where we are today, back time all-time highs. we need to remember that bitcoin has been around for only over a decade. the fact that we have a bitcoin futures etf trading on the new york stock exchange is an incredible milestone for this entire industry. we think it is encouraging for the entire investment community as well. caroline: what happens until you become an etf? for many, the opportunity with gbtc was you were in some way an ad hoc etf. now we actually have a real one. you traded at discount to bitcoin's price too. do you think you are going to lose inflows? are you going to gain because people see the opportunity to make up money from the discount? michael: i think many investors are still action and gbtc as a

way to gain exposure to bitcoin in their portfolios. today i think gbtc did over six under million dollars in notional trading volumes. this allows investors today to have a product that solely and possibly holds bitcoins as opposed to holding bitcoin futures in an actively managed fashion. people are holding these in retirement accounts, inside mutual funds and other etf's, looking for bitcoin exposure. given the product today does trade at a discount, a lot of investors think about buying bitcoin exposure at a discount as opposed to what the capital would do if they were buying bitcoin in the spot market. they see that certainly as a compelling opportunity, knowing that up conversion to an etf, that differential would be arbitraged away. taylor: it is interesting on days like today when you talk

about a futures etf, the potential for a spot etf, it's bitcoin only. a lot of people argued bitcoin was great, but there are other things like ethereum. is it too soon to start talking about those developments as etf's? michael: i don't know if it is ever too soon. certainly the success of grayscale etherium, the largest ethereum fund in the world, certainly tells of the story that investors are diversifying away from just bitcoin and even beyond just ethereum. earlier this week, grayscale had its seventh, eighth, and ninth product debut on the market. we are seeing an acceleration amongst our investors that crypto is a thematic part of their portfolios and needs to go beyond just bitcoin and ethereum to other protocols as well.

caroline: michael sonnenshein, thank you for joining us hot off the heels of the new grayscale investment announcement. from crypto to a company that is familiar with crypto itself, we hear from amc's ceo on how the company is recovering from the pandemic. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

caroline: more from milken. the amc ceo spoke to carol massar earlier. >> this is something much bigger. if all we do is innovate at our

theaters, we will bring back post-pandemic the company that existed in 2019. as you said in your build up in the last segment, the market cap of the company was not $20 billion. our next challenge is to transform the entire company, not just the theatrical experience. we ended the second quarter with more than two bullion dollars in cash. we will do something with that war chest. not necessarily a pure movie theater play. caroline: the amc ceo adam aron speaking from milken. he came over, he was giving a ride home to someone at the dinner. we are not just talking entertainment today. we are talking the future of entertainment on friday. thursday, a special edition of bloomberg markets focusing on supply chain pain. myself and romaine will be live

at the second largest port in the united states. on friday, catch a special edition of the close, when we look at the future of entertainment. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang. ♪ emily: we will break down the