>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology," with emily chang. ♪ emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco. coming up in the next hour, the verdict is in. elizabeth holmes found guilty of fraud and facing up to 20 years in prison. where the theranos case goes

from here. despite multiple major companies pulling out of ces, the conference is pushing full steam ahead. we sit down with gary shapiro, president of the consumer technology association that runs the annual tech show, this hour. and death to the blackberry. the end of an era for the iconic handheld device. services no longer supported after today. what this means for the company turned meme stock. we will get to all of that in a moment, but first a look at stocks. tech shares dragged down u.s. equities. ed ludlow is here with more. ed: we heard the story before. the outlook for higher interest rates providing a discount for future profits in the tech sector. that was the psychology of investors on tuesday. nasdaq 100 a very tech heavy index. it was down the most in two weeks. also starting slightly higher at the beginning of the session. also the nyse index, a basket of megacap tech stocks following

the most in two weeks. there was some outperformance down to the philadelphia. a lot of news out of ces. the chipmakers, which we will get to later in the show, and ark innovation etfs, having its worst day in a few weeks. have a look at this chart. we are looking at apple 3 trillion. isn't that astonishing. we are almost at 3 trillion. down by .5%. but we are flirting with that level. it is one to watch for in the coming weeks. i can't get my head around it, $3 trillion market cap, up $700 billion over the course of 2021. back in the studio, cryptocurrency is still in focus. bitcoin trading in the range between $46,000, $48,000. goldman sachs with research saying we could see bitcoin at

$100,000 per token as investors move out of gold and there is a broader adoption of the digital token. overall, cryptocurrencies are high as you see on the number cryptocurrency index. and finally pfizer having a , really bad two days. it's worst rout since june of two-day 2020. we had news from the company that u.s. government agreed to buy 10 million of the covid-19 pills, boosting the stock of that drug. some of the stay-at-home stocks also performing particularly bad. the likes of peloton and zoom, down significantly during tuesday's session, which is interesting given all the bad news we have had in the last 24 hours around omicron. emily: ed ludlow, thank you. cases of the omicron variant should start to ease as the federal government increases test capacity. the president told reporters at the white house today, the country has opened new testing sites, and that drugstores restocking home kits.

pres. biden: on testing, i know this remains frustrating, believe me, it is frustrating to me. but we are making improvements. in the last two weeks, we have stood up federal testing sites all over the country. we are adding more each and every day. emily: the u.s. recorded over one million cases monday, nearly doubling previous records. hospitalizations are increasing as well, especially among the unvaccinated. alex from bloomberg government is joining us now to discuss. alex, maryland declaring a state of emergency. are other states going to follow suit? alex: i think blue states are looking to respond quickly. the emergency declarations, the big change, they let states scramble resources. maryland let's them get the national guard involved, helping them setting up things. you know, this is really crucial. early in 2020 when the national guard is working test sites, setting up things, it is a scramble for resources.

emily: meantime,, president biden now doubling the u.s. order of an antiviral drug. does that mean more people will get treated with it? alex: that is a good question. i wouldn't expect to see it soon, this drug is backordered. i think a lot of the timeline that they have and the usher from the federal government is to say we were expecting it in the fall. would love to see this in the summer. i doubt you will run into it at this point. but it really is preparation, and a lot of it is to show the white -- is for the white house to show it is acting. they are really trying to show that they are gearing up and preparing. they faced a lot of criticism for not acting fast enough recently. and this is the white house doing a lot to show that it is trying to respond to his

historic numbers here. emily: meanwhile, we are all waiting, especially as parents with kids under five, for vaccines for younger children to be approved. moderna is supposedly close to finishing trials for their vaccine for kids under five. what can you tell us? alex: they have not released a lot of the information to us at this point. i know a lot of young parents, parents of young children are eagerly awaiting this news. it is a slower process. a lot of the vaccine response has been focused on the elderly, who were generally the most affected. it will take a long time. again, i think the timeline here has been -- moderna had said march or april. part of that again is that young children are less hospitalized, they are less likely today from

the virus, and, therefore, the emergency use and emergency approval is going to be a lot slower, and the expectation is that it will have less of an emphasis for young children. emily: alex ruoff of bloomberg government, thank you for covering this story for us. another story we are following -- elizabeth holmes convicted. we are waiting to find out when she will be sentenced after a jury found her guilty of fraud for her role in the collapse of her once multibillion-dollar blood testing startup, theranos. bloombergs -- rosenblatt was in the courtroom every day of the trial and is back with us. i would love for you to paint the scene for us. as the verdict was being read, what was elizabeth holmes' demeanor, and what happened afterwards? >> as the verdict was being read, i watched elizabeth holmes closely. what was very interesting about her was she comported herself as she has throughout the entire trial. she sat upright.

she looked at the clerk who was reading the verdict and she stood perfectly still and stared straight ahead. the room was quiet. the family was quiet. there was no noise in the courtroom other than the fluttering of clear keyboards from the press. what was more telling was immediately afterwards. i went into the hallway to wait for elizabeth holmes to get a response from her. as i was waiting, her father was waiting for her. he found a little nook outside outside of the room where the defense counsel needs and he was waiting for her, too, and he, in a suit and tie, sat down on the ground with his knees to his chest. and i peeked at him to see what he was doing. he was doing nothing but sitting on the ground stunned. to me, that image encapsulates the whole trial and the whole story of elizabeth holmes,

finally really falling to earth, and the gravity of what happened kind of taking effect. that was, to me, the last image that i will remember from this trial. emily: the partial verdict says it all, in terms of the mixed potential outcomes. she was convicted on four counts, acquitted on four counts, and the jury was hung on three counts. do you think she will appeal, and how likely is it an appeal would be successful? joel: she will certainly appeal, no doubt about that. the mixed verdict shows that the jury took a long time, and they studied it carefully. if you can read between the lines into what was going on, i can explain it briefly, the fraud count that she defrauded patients failed terribly. most of the investor account

that she defrauded investors, those stood up very strong. but it indicates is that the jewelry really took their time and deliberated carefully and kind of map to their way through the verdict form and the instructions. there is no appeal. i think there is no issue for her on appeal, because the jury did such a careful and good job, and the judge also took great pains to allow them the time they needed to do it. emily: she faces a maximum of 20 years in prison, but as i understand it, she will likely serve far less than that if she does go to jail. how many years is she likely to serve, and what will her experience in prison the? goldfish this requires much more research on my own part, because recently as i spoke to my sources, it seemed as if she might spend ultimately, may be to five years. as it turns out, we discussed the counts she was found guilty

of, one of them is for wire fraud in the amount of $100 million. the money matters. how much you defraud somebody off, that is excel and under that statute, that will probably kick up the amount of time spent in prison. i need to research it more, but now it is likely she will spend at least five years in prison. may be a bit more. certainly not 20. no way. but a lot more than i initially expected. emily: i know it was a long trial to cover for you, you were in that courtroom every day from the very we hours of the morning. we appreciate your coverage thank you for giving us your , thoughts in the aftermath. at&t and verizon have agreed to hold the launch of a 5g service by two weeks. amidst concerns it could interfere with airplane electronics. the carriers had vowed to go ahead with the deployment this week. that delay will allow airline and safety officials to take

steps to mitigate attentional potential risks. coming up, ces pushing ahead, despite the pandemic. we are joined by gary shapiro, president of the consumer technology association running that runs the event, to talk about why they are moving forward as major multiple companies canceled plans to attend in person. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: events around the world are being canceled amidst omicron and the covid surge. but ces, the biggest consumer tech show of the year, is powering ahead, and officially kicked off wednesday, this after many companies pulled the plug

on there in person attendance in favor of presenting virtually. let's talk about what it means for the event with gary shapiro, president of the consumer technology association that hosts ces every year. all of these major companies pulling out in person, other major conferences like jp morgan health care conference being canceled. why are you moving ahead at this point in the pandemic? gary: i just want to clarify the facts, and thank you for having me and giving me that opportunity. the fact is that fewer than 10% of our companies pulled out at the last minute. they made the decision for their own reasons. but we have over 2300 companies exhibiting. and there is concern about covid. but there is also the understanding that we are not back in march of 2020. he set the parameters very early in the summer, we were the first major event to do so and said, look, you have to be vaccinated

to come here. we only allow adults in. you must have a mask. we are giving every attendee a free test to have a quick 15 -minute test in the privacy of their hotel room. we have taken all sorts of safety measures, and it is something that we will have -- wider aisles social distancing, , a brand-new facility. facilities we are using. this is an environment we feel is a bubble. at least on the ces premises. and i want you to compare that to a basketball game or a hockey game or a football game which millions of americans go to each week, where there is no vaccine requirements, no masking requirements, no social distancing. so i can rest more comfortable at ces right now, and being with people, wearing a mask, i would than i would go to a local grocery store or a sporting event. so i think we are in good shape, i think a lot of people figured that out. we already had a number of events.

he had one last night with the media and exhibitors showing the products. the innovation was amazing. we had two years of innovation. hundreds of the companies exhibiting our health care exhibitors, focusing on technology. a lot of the companies are selling things to deal with covid itself, how you can get rid of it, how you can test it, there is a breathalyzer, all sorts of thing helping. there is environmental, transmutation, robotics. innovations that people want to see, and they come from all over the world to do this. they put their life savings into this. this is for the entrepreneurs, for the startups. 80% of our companies are smaller companies. emily: people are worried about having a couple of friends at their house and spreading covid. are you at all worried about becoming a superspreader event? is it ethical at this point to hold an event this big? >> we consulted with medical

experts, and they have been pretty unanimous in saying that there are things we can do well. they say go forward. people are coming involuntarily. these are vaccinated people. vaccinated people, statistics show now that it is pretty safe. you might get something equivalent to a cold, that is a possibility. a lot of different kind of these -- a lot of different companies are out there and want to be there. they have nothing to do with us to begin with. a lot of misinformation is floating around. a lot of companies are here, big companies. a top executive is giving a speech. we have some people taking advantage of the opportunity. a lot of companies are part of the event and are participating digitally.

so we can extend our footprint around the world like we did in 2021i feel really good about going forward, because we have to get back to living again. and we have to do it with leadership, and with conviction. we have to understand the risk. we have lived our whole life knowing we can get the flu. it has never stopped us from doing anything. and by all accounts, if you are vaccinated, you have no risk at all of getting this mortal danger that some people have with the flu. it is the nonvaccinated who are the issue. emily: gary, look, gary, i have to stop you there. let's leave that to the cdc. let's talk about ces. no one is arguing that the tech trends are thereafter showcase. but look at twitter, people are posting pictures of empty showrooms, even someone myself, a journalist who has been to ces in the past, you don't see empty hallways like that on a day before the event, even on press day. so what is the argument?

why attend this year? >> i was walking down the hallway, and it is the empty registration area because we are not allowing people to register. the show has not started yet. i think those are very deceptive pictures you are showing. the fact is that if you go to the exhibit halls, if you go to the brand-new west hall, you will see vibrant, new, major and smaller company exhibits. this is what it looks like right now the day before the show. you are showing empty hallways an venetian hotel which i am in now. yes, we will have a smaller footprint, yes, we will have fewer people, yes, there will even be gaps in the floor from the companies who pulled out, but people are choosing to go because they feel relatively safe. some people are choosing to go on with their lives, recognizing that there are risks in everything we do from getting into a car to going to a sporting event to our kids going to school. we are choosing to live our lives. it is important to take on leadership and go forward and not spend the next several years in our homes being scared of being alive, because we might get something which is

definitely uncomfortable, it is bad. no one likes to be sick it could happen and. it is likely to happen to a lot of people in the next several months, that is the reality of it. i think it is ethical to go forward with our lives and think the position you are taking, i find very unfortunate. emily: alright, we will be covering it and covering the tech trends of the year. gary shapiro of the consumer technology association, thank you for joining us. i appreciate you sharing your views. coming up this week from ces, wednesday, we are going to be joined throughout the day by a number of ceos who are attending. qualcomm's ceo christiane ammon, g.m.'s mary barra will also be joining us on bloomberg television. shauna shanker. some in person, some not. you don't want to miss them. coming up, with social media

companies looking to push even further in the metaverse, we will dive into how snapchat is looking to use that to expand its base. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: snapchat recently released an avatar ar filter that gives you a sneak peek into what it could look like in the metaverse. it comes as more companies are taking advantage of the growing interest in the metaverse. joining us now is madly sing. how will the promise or potential of the metaverse impact the growth trajectory of a company like snap? mandeep: i think what we are seeing now is disruption in the social media space from gaming companies. typically gaming companies used to have 10 to 15 million user base.

social media companies were bigger. for example, snapchat has 200 million daily active user base. now with roblox getting much more traction, consumers' engagement times are moving towards more of the gaming platforms, and metaverse is a as word. at the end of the day, the better use case for the metaverse is gaming. all these social media like snap and meta are pivoting to metaverse. snap more so on the augmented reality side and now facebook is pivoting to the virtual reality side good that it will have an impact on their advertising and i think they will run tougher comps. so i think the growth rates will taper for the social media incumbents. emily: who are the biggest threats? is it roblox? mandeep: roblox, unity is the

engine used in designing these games. at the end of the day, there is a lot of innovation around web 3.0 and 3d software. so a combination of these technologies, and some of these startups, but you can see how people are thinking about metaverse and how they are building it, so they are the ones be disrupting it. some of them will go to the likes of nvidia when it comes to building the background infrastructure, but i think it is a full-fledged ecosystem when he think about metaverse as a whole. emily: all right, bloombergs's mandeep singh, we will continue following your coverage. thank you for joining us. coming up, we look at whether the rise and fall of elizabeth holmes will change silicon valley or not. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang in some physical. after seven days of deliberation, a jury convicted of elizabeth holmes, founder of theranos, of defrauding investors of hundreds of millions of dollars. will this spur investors to scrutinize companies more carefully? will it deter founders from letting their optimism slip into dishonest exaggeration? in a red-hot start up investment market, is anyone willing to take more time to do due diligence and slow down? our guest is a professor at wharton school and joins us now

to discuss. jacklin, the big question is, will investors actually learn from this, will they change their behavior? >> a lot of the lessons investors have already learned. they learned when this all came out. they don't have the burden of proof that a court or a jury has, so they took their cues off articles and the stories that came out a couple of years ago. and in a lot of ways, a lot of those lessons have been learned. that said, lessons learned come

and go in this part of the world in investing. so some of those lessons may have already been unlearned by some investors. we will have to see how that plays out. emily: we have some of the ardea recordings played in the trial of elizabeth holmes speaking to potential investors. take a listen to this of elizabeth holmes back in 2013. >> several years ago, we realized that we had created an infrastructure that could in fact make it plausible to get rid of lobotomy, or the big tubes of blood that are drawn, in its entirety. emily: what about founders, jacqueline, and the technology culture built on over optimistic exaggerations? will it deter them from doing that? jacqueline: one of the things about this case is kind of a horrible example. we talk about back sale often when it comes to silicon valley startups. that that is rarely the story when it comes to something as high-tech as blood testing. when you mislead or outright lie about the state of your technology, you put yourself at an extra ordinary disadvantage. because you have lost all the time you needed to do that development, because everybody thinks you are already there. you are starting behind.

and that is why even more than the moral or ethical or legal implications of doing this, this is a really bad -- for an entrepreneur to take. you cut out all the years and research time you needed because you told everyone you're already there. more than anything, that hurts startups. it is supposed to be about what the right thing to do is, the right product, the right marketing, the right targets. when it comes to hard tech, lying and faking it until you make it actually hurts you in the development process, in some ways, even more than the ethical questions about whether or not you should lie or whether it is dangerous, which in this case we are certainly getting into. emily: you teach the theranos case in your entrepreneurship class. what is your message to the students, your main takeaway?

jacqueline: time is precious to entrepreneurs. half the time, your trying to get time to find money, to do the work. so life sciences, biotech, you want all the time you can have. tell the truth. and you can be optimistic without lying. you can say "we will" without saying, "we already have." that is the biggest message i tell my students. once you cross the line saying you already have, you lose that time. you can be optimistic, you can be positive, you can be gung ho, you can convince people that you are doing the right thing and you are going to get there, without crossing the line into claiming having something. the fact is, we all want what elizabeth holmes and theranos were selling, we would have bought into that if the message was "we are," "we will." the lie didn't have to be there, certainly not so early, the video just showed it was 2013,

july didn't have to be there to get the funding, to sell that story. that is the biggest much as i talk to my students about. you can tell the pitch, you can talk about what you're going to do and be incredibly optimistic, without crossing the line of fraud or lies that can cost you as much in your development process. emily: i would agree that the lie may be didn't need to be there to get the attention of reporters either. much of the trial actually focused on a "fortune" cover story written by a journalist, and hours of recorded conversation between elizabeth holmes and the journalist himself. journalists, including myself, manyjournalists, including myself, interviewed elizabeth holmes and didn't ask enough tough questions. how much responsibility does the media bear, and will "the media" learn from this? jacqueline: it is funny you say that. i actually use a video of an interview that she did with a different "forms" reporter in my class and i ask the students

what is she doing right, partially to get them to think about the things she did write right as an entrepreneur. she convinced people of a message of post market and life for people, the human social mission. i don't think we should ever let go of that. i don't think the media should let go of that. but what we need to do is make sure we are doing the due diligence. the trial has definitely highlighted how much we don't dig down, and we need more. that's the piece that i think may be the lesson for some of the rest of us, i hope the investors will learn something, but we will see. emily: have is a risk that this could negatively impact not founders, but female funders in particular, in an industry where women are already we too underrepresented as entrepreneurs? jacqueline: i was frightened as

i saw the trial unfold that -- the svengali defense, that i think could have damaged not just female funders, but female funders with mixed gender teams, because it implied the mail founder would have power over the female founder. i think in the verdict, the jury did not see that as what was going on. hopefully that will not female founders as much. and that what it means is that all founders, females included, need to demonstrate what they are doing and showed that they can answer the question, that they can stand behind what they are doing and move forward. i don't think that part of the defense has flown away in the

outcome. i think that will have less impact. typically on female entrepreneurs. emily: jacqueline kirtley, thank you for sharing your thoughts. another story about a controversial founder, adam neumann, who built wework. he has a new business venture as an apartment landlord. entities tied to him have been acquiring majority stakes in more than 4000 admits in several cities, valued at more than $1 billion, according to court property and public records, and people familiar with the transactions. nuemann has told friends and associates that he wants to shake up the rental housing industry. coming up, the chip shortage dragging on. what is next for the semiconductor industry as delivery times get longer. and when we can expect bottlenecks to ease. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> now, one of the things that jumped out was the need for a better, more unified cross device experience. i am pleased to announce that we have acquired a pioneering leader in delivering technology for advanced interaction between multiple devices based on different operating environments. >> the notebooks feature our fastest verizon processor ever, with deeds up to five gigahertz. we are delivering an average of 1.3x faster performance compared to the 5000 series across a wide range of compute intensive benchmarks. >> the rapid expansion of 5g offers low latency cloud gaming everywhere. so we have teamed with at&t and

their fast, reliable 5g network to bring the power of pc gaming to mobile devices. emily: sticking with semiconductors, 2021 was a year of bottlenecks and times for supply chains. let's get to ed ludlow for all outlook of where we're 2022. ed: well, i am sad to say that we are headed in the wrong direction. leadtimes are stretching. almost 26 weeks. leadtime being the point in order where the semiconductor is made and where it actually is delivered. broad-based across all types of processes. there are supply-chain constraints going in the wrong direction. not necessarily improving. that was december. 2021 was a good year for companies. revenue really strong. 2022 is set to be a $500 billion year for the industry for the first time. what is so interesting, this

data behind me, is that the annual revenue growth for semiconductors is set to continue. we can see three consecutive years of revenue growth, annual revenue growth, for the first time in decades. this data going through to 2025. of course, this is an industry that has typically been boom and bust. and we know that when we have seen extended leadtimes in the past, we have seen a lot of over-ordering in the past, which has led to glut. that may be the case this time around. that is on the chipmaker's side. there is a different story, especially the automotive industry. we have got fourth-quarter sales from american auto sales on tuesday, and many painted a much more positive picture in 2022. select one's i picked out, they would hit the bottom in terms of what they experienced. with limited inventory because of the shortage of semiconductors. gm saying they are looking at 2022 and they are actually optimistic that the semiconductor actor is improving . finally, toyota, they put it

simply -- our inventory continues to improve in large part because semiconductors cycle through. they will continue to be watched. it's been a whole year of having this story, emily. i will tell you more about it in the year to come. emily: thank you. a long year ahead. so, when is the chip shortage going to end? what is the future of the chip industry? i'm joined by rene james. computing chair and ceo and former president of intel. good to have you with us. where are we right now in the chip crisis? how bad is it? when does it ease up? rene: i wish i had all those answers. i think we are at the point where, as ed just pointed out, leadtimes are long. there are different reasons why those leadtimes are longer than we need them to. but people have orders now starting to come in.

over the second half of last year, a lot of long leadtime orders were placed by customers in different segments. inventories are starting to come in. from a consumer perspective, you will start to see improvement. even though the leadtimes are longer than we want. in some sectors, we are seeing the second half of 2022 beginning some easing as capacity comes online. a test depends on if you are on the -- it just depends on if you are on the leading edge of high-performance, or more of the mainstream, how long it will take to work its way through. but the good news is, we are growing. emily: what about the potential for supply, oversupply? do you see that happening? renee: it has historically been a cyclical business for that possibility. i think this time is a little bit different than what i have seen in the last couple of decades in this business, where we have multiple growth segments happening at the same time. ordinarily really pc's growing

or cloud data centers growing, we might see automotive growing, now we are seeing every segment. when we see that, we know that what we are seeing is sustained growth, expansion. so i am less concerned about overcapacity on this cycle than i have been before. lots of us follow capacity landing, we see how much capacity different companies are putting in as they announced their capital expenditures in each year, and i myself have not -- i am not an economist, but i don't see that this time. i see multi-segment growth, demand for multiple modes, not nodes, not just leading edge, but some of the older nodes. and growth in those areas. and i think that is important factor this time around. emily: ces is going ahead with

in-person plans despite major companies like intel, where you work for many years, putting out. what do you think about that? renee: you know, i think it is a personal choice if people want to go. i know a lot of our industry has in at work from home for long time and we are excited about that. i myself would not advocate it, but i guess it is a personal choice for those that want to attend in person. that's a hard decision. emily: even before the pandemic, there was some skepticism about how relevant ces still is, and i am curious given your long history in this industry, does the consumer electronics show still matter when companies can go direct to their audience, direct to the press so much more easily these days? renee: that is a great question. the one thing the consumer

electronics show has done is focused a bunch of different -- you know, what used to be discreet different consumer electronics that are now all connected in some way. i mean, you used to think of the television as separate from the computer. you don't so much anymore. i think it's an opportunity for everyone to convene with new information and to give consumers and industry a kind of a vision of how this all comes together. does it need to be in person? i don't know. can it be done direct to consumer? absolutely. we saw in those press conferences that were virtual. but i do think that the timing of it and having it be an annual thing, and the convening of all those announcements is still very helpful to organize all that information. it is hard to wade through how much comes out once a year about these new appliances.

emily: point taken. last question, what is the future of ampere in 2022, what is your role in the return of the chip industry going to be? >> i'm glad you asked. we heard a lot today in all of those announcements of ubiquitous connected computing, and devices. pc's still growing qualcomm had , a tour de force announcement. what we do is build cloud chips. what we do even more specifically is power efficiency. power efficient high-performance , microprocessors for the cloud and the edge. so i am very encouraged. i enjoyed listening to the visions from the client-side. because all of that leads to more demand in the data center. the pervasive use of ai in cars and software across different services and different applications demands even more compute in the cloud.

so from our perspective, we are super excited about it. we had a great year in 2021, we are looking forward to 2022, we have more new things coming out. it will be an exciting year for us. emily: we will be watching. renee james, ampere computing chair and ceo, thank you so -- good to have you back with us. coming up, 10 years ago, this was one of the biggest phones on the market. now the device can't even make a phone call. more on blackberry ending service on its legacy devices. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: the james webb space telescope team deployed its protective sun shield, a key milestone in preparing it for scientific operations. it is about the size of a tennis

court and will protect the telescope from light and heat of the sun, earth, and moon. it has another 5.5 months of set up still to come. after that, the telescope will deliver its images exploring every space of cosmic history. and the end of an era, literally. this tuesday, blackberry ended service on its once iconic phones. if you have one at the bottom of a drawer and turn it on, it will not work at all. bloombergs mark gurman joins me now with more. mark, i remember the days of the blackberry and how important it was to me. how many people are actually still using them? mark: i would say in terms of these legacy blackberrys, remember the blackberry curve,, blackberry pearl blackberry poll, they were the most popular. in terms of active use, it has to be in the single digit thousands, double-digit thousands. and most if not in the hundreds. because the functionality has been dwindling for years.

carrier support has been good real support from blackberry as a company has been gone. so many people have transitioned to android devices and iphones and all types of smartphones. i would say it is a slim number of people impacted. they warned about this about six years ago. people have had a lot of time to prepare. emily: i know there are folks using blackberry android devices. will those still be affected by this? mark: certainly, there is a slew of devices from small manufacturing partners, names of companies that people really have been heard before. company called tcl that makes bones, they are leveraging the blackberry brand. even though blackberry has completely pivoted and it is a really old-school brand, it is still very popular with some people. i don't think it is a name anyone who knows popular culture will ever forget. so they have been leveraging

that name with the devices with full touchscreens and keyboards that look like blackberrys, but blackberry has nothing to do with them other than the brands and retail channels. google operating systems. they are not impacted. the impacted devices are the real, old-school blackberries. running blackberry 10 software, blackberry 7 software, and the blackberry playbook tablet that launched many years ago in the early day of the ipad running playbook os 2.1 or earlier. emily: blackberry more recently was a meme stock. what do they actually do? 20 seconds. mark: well, they have completely refocused to cybersecurity for technology, protecting devices. they work with governments and companies as a security system. their current ceo of really transformed the company in their people. emily: mark gurman, the death of the blackberry. thank you.

that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." tune in tomorrow. we will be joined by a number of ceos. i am emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪ is is bloomberg. ♪

>> the following is a paid program. the opinions and views expressed do not reflect those of bloomberg lp, its affiliates, or its employees. ♪ announcer: the following is a paid presentation furnished by rare collectibles tv, llc. kim: in a letter dated back to december 27, 1904 to the secretary of treasury, president theodore roosevelt wrote a short, two-sentence letter, and this was in typical theodore roosevelt direct bravado style. "my dear secretary shaw, i think our coinage is artistically of