announcer: from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang. emily: i am emily chang in san

francisco and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, watershed moment, amazon, a vote to unionize. will it drive a push for organized labor across the u.s.? we will discuss. -- organize labor across the u.s.? plus, chinese authorities preparing to give full access to auditing reports that the 200 plus companies, chinese companies, listed in new york. we break it down. and fractal is the new nft gaming company founded by the twitch co-founder. why does he think in a piece future of gaming? he will join us for an exclusive interview in this hour. first, stocks in flux, mixed signals, jobs report, war, talks between russia and ukraine. ed ludlow here to break it down. ed: yeah, that's a lot.

happy friday. stocks did bounce into positive territory. information technology was the worst performing sector. you see the nasdaq 100 managing to end just shy of up .2%. it was all about jobs, adding 500,000, unemployment fell by more than expected, and a robust labor market, all signals is the fed will be tightening aggressively, but yields rise in stocks followed suit. bitcoin above $46,000. momentum. nasdaq 100, we were talking about the worst or first down quarter since march 2020 when the pandemic hid. the other way of looking at the nasdaq 100 is that we have been

up on the index for the last three weeks, so there is a change in psychology around technology shares. quick movers. tesla. watch this over the weekend. we expect delivery figures for the first quarter. consensus estimates are at 309,185-ish, which would be a new record. amazon was up .4%, despite the new york union vote, which could be a negative headline. emily: thanks. workers have voted to join the union, a historic victory for organized labor. in the amazon has been able to stop it for more than a set number of

years. we are joined now by our guest, and our bloomberg's senior executive editor covering amazon for decades. amazon is the second largest private employer in the country so this could be huge. how remarkable is this? >> it is historic. amazon has been fighting the union attempts in the u.s. since the late 90's when it started in a customer service call center outside seattle. amazon close the facility and moved the work elsewhere. it has fought this bitterly. in europe, unions, work stoppages, but amazon routes around it. it is historical. it is just the beginning. one facility. amazon will contest it. the real work begins, bargaining , and will amazon sit down with

this new and untested union? will it renegotiate things it gives employees, like a $15 an hour wage? this group is now going to be very tested. >> chris smalls has been a huge character in this story. i want to read amazon statement, we are disappointed with the outcome of the election because we believe having a direct relationship with the company is best for employees. we are evaluating our options including objections based on the inappropriate and undue influence that we and others witnessed in the selection. it sounds like amazon intends to make the argument that basically president biden's pick to run the labor board is moving in an activist direction. does that argument hold water? >> i don't know.

historically when we look at organizations and unionization attempts, the power and balance -- imbalance is in favor of organizations, so i would be surprised if that held a lot of water in court, but i was not on the ground and did not see what happens specifically in that center. emily: so what is your outlook on just how this could ripple across the u.s. and other amazon warehouses, but at other companies where employees could look at this and say maybe we should do this to? >> it could have enormous effects, because walmart and amazon have been untouchable giants, and now they are not so untouchable. it is still an uphill climb for other amazon distribution centers and other organizations,

but the momentum is there, and we have seen the momentum continued through the nation. we have movement at starbucks, rei, alphabet workers, so it is there, and i do not see that this movement is going to go away soon. emily: brad, at the same time, you are looking at a similar boat in alabama, a do over vote because of controversy around the first vote. that one going at this point in the other direction. it is too close to call and will likely be challenged, but in alabama and it's looking like the union is not coming out on top. why are we seeing different outcomes here? >> well, i mean, look, staten island, new york city, this is the second-most unionize state after hawaii and the country. new york city is higher. staten island higher in terms of

union membership. you had a group with chris smalls and his colleagues that employed the kind of community activist playbook in terms of using social media and getting arrested, a very innovative playbook, and also speaking as former amazon employee, so that had something to do with it. she is right. there are important symbolic victories here for a labor movement, an organized labor movement that has been losing ground over the past few decades in terms of the sheer number of union members, but i think it is too soon to say that the tide is turning. amazon has this immune system response to unions in its supply chain and it fights them tooth and nail. i think workers at other fulfillment centers will be watching and waiting to see if chris smalls and his colleagues can convert today's important and symbolic victory into meaningful change for amazon workers. emily: we are looking at chris

smalls popping a bottle of champagne on the back of this vote. do we need a character like that if other pushes for organized labor and other parts of the country at other amazon warehouses and other companies is really going to succeed? >> i think the case of chris smalls is particularly interesting because he led that independent union. when we look at the tactics he used in terms of change of management and coalition building, he is really smart. amazon has a particular playbook they use when it comes to fighting unions. chris smalls's tactics subverted them. it was really clever. the next step will be negotiating, which is going to take a lot of effort and a lot

of resource allocation, um, so the transition to that process will be harder, but he seems to be focusing on participation and bringing the workers involvement in, so if he continues to do that him he could be very successful. emily: brad, what kind of roadblocks do you think amazon will throw up next here and elsewhere? >> boy, we, we probably can't conceive what they will resort to. when you look back the ark of amazon history, they have shut them facilities and walked away from facilities that even attempted to organize. i don't think in 2022 under andy jassy that amazon can or will do that, but frankly a couple of years ago come of the shutdown, you remember, emily, the h2 q

project in long island city because it had become about unions, and the mayor filled the blahs has said it is a union town and amazon will have to accept it in the next day they close out, so, but, andy jassy is a different ceo than jeff bezos. i do not think they will do that, but i think they will fight tooth and nail. i think these legal objections are just the beginning. i think bargaining tooth and nail for everything with chris smalls and his colleagues in the we can certainly anticipate that him and maybe they do not reach a contract and maybe there is a striking amazon resorts to replacement labor and we have a big battle with the world watching. i don't think they are going to allow smalls and his union to set an example, because they do view it as a little bit of an existential challenge for the company and the relationship they had with their one million plus workers. emily: i see that you are nodding your head in agreement with what brad is saying here. what do you think comes next from amazon?

>>,, i think they will fight tooth and nail -- i, i think they will fight tooth and nail, as was just said. the location a, it is in a pro-r town, a pro-labor state, uhinve, distribution centers. it would be hard to shut those down easily. that being said, they are in a large urban area with greater labor supply possibility, so, it is, they have some things going or them and against them. it will be interesting what they choose to do. emily: the scale of this is potentially massive, amazon employing 1.5 million workers in the u.s. alone.

thank you both. sticking with amazon, the tech giant gave andy jassy a pay package worth 212 lien dollars last year, almost all of that in the stock award, 61,000 shares, vesting between next year in 2031. he took over from jeff bezos in july. coming up, apple moving into fintech. how they plan to develop its payments processing technology and what it means for the rest of the fintech world coming next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: >> you soon may pay for your hardware the way you pay for other things. we are working on a subscription service that would allow users to pay for their phones monthly. this would differ from normal installment plans as the fee would be a proprietary price based on which model the user chose, versus the cost of the device divided by 12 or 24 months. apple would let iphone users replace their model each year, as new versions are released. over time, of course, the recurring revenue we generate more money for apple and allow consumers to get new iphones

more frequently and not have to pay $1000 outright for a new, high-end model. apple has internally discussed tying the program to its services bundles that include tv plus, apple music macleod storage avenues in the fitness plus and more, in additional to apple technical support plans. similarly, apple is working on a widespread buy now pay later service for apple pay. if all goes to plan, apple could launch the hardware's obstruction service later in 2022 or sometime in 2023. i am mark gurman. this is power on. emily: mark gurman there for bloomberg. don't forget to sign up for his weekly newsletter power on it bloomberg.com. sticking with apple, they reported earlier this week that the iphone maker is developing its own payments processing technology and infrastructure for future financial products. to talk about that and other fintech news, i want to bring in

the ceo and founder of post-house capital. great to have you with this. i am curious what you read is on apple digging deeper into the financial services world, and what this means for other fintech players. >> i am not surprised for a few reasons. first, they process hundreds of billions of dollars worth of payments throughout the entire apple ecosystem, so the scale with which they operate is extraordinary for any types of payment system to run throughout their network. the second thing is they have been in payments for eight years and they have already shown interest in launching payment and credit products, and what they are doing in particular with this is enabling consumers to just by and another form, so --buy in another form, so making it easier to pay with your

device and pay over time, making it easier for consumers to control their monthly spend, so it is obviously helpful because from apple's point of view, it creates engagement, this relationship, even after a transaction, because the servicing relationship enables them to continue to build a relationship with the consumer on their phone, so there is tons of utility for the consumer who wants to control monthly expenses, as well as apple, who wants to dig a little bit deeper into the consumer's wallet. emily: who does this hurt the most? what does it mean for paypal, for example? >> i do not think it will hurt anybody. i think it is a new form and way to pay. you will see it proliferate everywhere, credit card providers, specialist do it, that firm is after pay, clar not

-- affirm, after pay, klarna. -- it is another way to expand the relationship and give options amongst all of their products. emily: we have seen a number of fintech stocks taking a beating this quarter. affirm, i know you are on the board of multiple companies for many years. why do you think fintech in particular is taking this, i know that there is a broader down market, but fintech seems to be taking it pretty hard. >> fintech had an unbelievable series of years between funding and valuations, which reached fairly heady heights, so you have seen her reset back to

levels that are more standardized levels of a particular given the growth of these companies. i think you will always see them operate with disruptive multiples, multiples higher than the non-technically-advanced companies in the payments and financial sector, but they came back to a more sustainable multiple level in this overall market reset. having said that, the private market also reset, and in 2021 alone, you saw a 645% increase in crypto investments, a similar increase in fintech investing, and all of that had reached a level of valuations and levels of interest that really had pete, and it -- peeaked, and it just came back to earth. i see opportunities in the sector, the biggest, and where

the traditional companies that operate in this market are for the majority of the public companies over 50 years and older as companies, and so there is incredible opportunity to be disruptive in the space from so i still see lots of opportunity and lots of investment, even today. emily: you are an investor in the crypto market. i am curious how your thinking about adoption trends and dfi. there was a headline talking about and reason horowitz, jack dorsey come in the crypto "holy war" that is brewing. >> ok, i think that is a little dramatic. having said that, it is entertaining. i think defi is fascinating. it changes the paradigm of who owns, controls, and operates companies, so there is an opportunity to expand the aperture of how these companies are run and created. i also think we are only in the

first inning of defi. we are seeing experimentation in infrastructure and vertical products, but you have not really seen use cases come to fruition and build significant scaled companies, where you are seeing these broader use cases used in consumers day in and day out lives. emily: right. >> it is exciting, and i think along with the rest of the crypto market in the fintech market, it continues to show the level of interest in investing in this area of the united states economy. emily: yeah. i want to ask you quickly about your new book, self-made boss, which you cowrote, and you talk to entrepreneurs, owners of small and medium businesses, son me of your customers when you were working at square capital. what is the catalyst for this quickly? >> small businesses need help to

start and run the business. half the economy, two thirds of job growth on my co-author and i really saw the need to create a pragmatic guide to help small businesses build their companies through feedback from other small businesses, and it is a helpful tool to help them start and grow their business. emily: post-house capital, and new author, self-made boss. check it out on amazon. thank you. we will be right back. this is bloomberg. ♪ this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: a few other stories. gamestop soaring after announcing stock split.

it wants to increase the number of class a shares from 300 million to one billion. gamestop has become the poster child for so-called meme stocks. it boosted the stock by 700% last year. coming up, chinese tech stocks rally, after beijing says it's getting ready to give u.s. regulators access to the auditing reports that tens of companies. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." potentially huge news from twitter, or is it news that all? it is tweeting it is working on an editing button. april fools' day appeared is it a joke -- april fools' day.

it is a joke? >> it is a joke. emily: this is what i want. it is a joke. twitter has resisted for years, so why do it now on april fool'' day? even investors think it is a joke. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." -- we will have to see tomorrow. yes, you were prayer pairing -- you are preparing is not to fall for it. china tech stocks. beijing potentially giving u.s. regulators to the full access of auditing reports of 200 plus chinese companies listed in new york. what would be the significance of this? >> yeah, yeah, u.s. listed of chinese tech companies, right, the golden dragon china index almost a 5%, lots of names on the move, 69 out of 81 in

positive territory, some of the names, alibaba, baidu, all companies that have struggled with this concept of whether they would be delisted because of the tensions was so one to watch, but a significant olive branch, if you like, based on what sources to bloomberg, between chinese authorities in the u.s. look at this. it is pain. 12 months. u.s. listed. chinese tech companies. shares, right? this was the worst start to a deer since 2008. worst first quarter two a year since 2008. you look at the right-hand hand side of the screen. four successive quarters of declines for the nasdaq golden dragon index, riep, which is its worst run since 2009, but suddenly we start to change the narrative a little bit. earlier in march the beginning of this year, chinese authorities started to signal that the regulatory crackdown at companies, gaming, internet

social media companies would be eased, and look at this white line, the cold and dragon starting to do this move and could be a substantial step forward. emily: thank you. chinese tech stocks rallying now. when you make of the chinese government potentially taking an unprecedented step given how secretive and protective the government is about its own companies? >> i hope this is not an april fools joke from the chinese authority. who knows? they have a sense of humor as well. emily: that is a good point. >> based on what you discussed, it is amazing to see the stock rally. for the last 12 months, the chinese stocks and companies have been under pressure and it has been a really, really tough

time, so this announcement, there are three implications. one, it is amazing to see the chinese authority is willing to work with the u.s. to potentially open this up. we will see how it goes during the summer, but this is that the government level in terms of cooperation. it is amazing to see. in some sense it is historic, because there has been a lot of pushback for many, many years, a number two, it is great news for the listed companies, because the combined market cap is $2.1 trillion, it is really nervous for many investors, ceos, public listed companies, so now they are willing to lead the charge, so that is great news. number three, from the point of view of a start up, so many startups have really been

wanting to ipo in the u.s., and now there is light at the end of the tunnel, so it is great news over all, and last but not least, i still have family and friends under complete lockdown in shanghai right now, and it is so bad, so economically and we need some good news in china. emily: well, so, i wonder if this will be part of a longer-term strategy given that the chinese government has been cracking down on its own tech companies for months upon months now. will we see a broader easing up? >> um, i really hope so. i am definitely not qualified to comment on what chinese authority in government would do, but one for sure, i think chinese government really want to support the economy, and then what happened with the ant group, or it is not just purely regulatory with ag back or

fintech sectors. it is overall the whole economy because of covid has been really going through some tough times, and i think right now that the government wants to help and push this along to at least for us from an early stage investor, from a startup point of view but this is really, really good news, and i think they really want to suppress it. emily: so what is your assessment now whether investors should be getting into or staying in chinese tech stocks, public companies, and whether chinese companies in general are smart from a private market or venture capitalist perspective as well? >> from a private market, there are many, many areas that are little bit more, from health care, or others, or any sort of electric cars come and frankly, china is been one of the fastest-growing growing markets for companies like tesla, so china as a whole is still the

second largest in terms of, um, gdp in the world, so it is a huge market, and so tencent, ant group, it hasn't been so great, but still huge, huge in terms of user base, and i'm so really, really bullish about the chinese market. we can't predict what the chinese government wants to do, but at the same time come in terms of the health and future of the economy, it is to really, really bright, so in general, take a very positive attitude. emily: i want to turn to crypto because you have back some of the biggest crypto names out there, why do you think we are seeing such hesitance on the part of investors amid this downturn? there was a thought that cryptocurrencies could be decoupled from traditional equities on the but we are not

seeing that. >> i actually, i guess it depends on the day. emily, we caught up december last year, and i actually predicted for the last five years that three crypto winters, and i swear to god, every january, there is a downturn in but particular with bitcoin, but i have not said that in the past few days as the crypto market rallied again. so there are a few things come in 2021, it has been record high in terms of early-stage crypto venture, and just look at ftx loan, the revenue has been insane, and in some sense, i think the biden administration, you certainly, the white house can't say i won certain things to happen to they really have, give their blessing in some sense. we still need to wait for all the agencies to give the official to regulators, but at the same time, i do think we are

going in the right direction, and regardless of those who invested in other things, there are more and more institutions offering actual products for sort of the family offices or many sort of consumer to get in the game, just started with coinbase being public and ftx, i don't know win, but getting the regulation and licensing to be in compliance, it will come in. emily: edith young. thank you, as always. coming up, the cofounder of twitch getting into crypto. we will speak with him. this is bloomberg. ♪ s is bloomberg. ♪

emily: the future of nft in gaming. fractal, founded by the twitch cofounder just raised funding from crypto-focused investors. i want to bring him in now for more on his vision. we know you so well for experimenting with and popularizing early technologies from justin.tv to which. what makes you think it is the future? >> it feels like those early days of livestreaming.

15 years ago, when we were building a company that turned into twitch, there was a lot of experimentation on how people will interact on the internet. today in crypto and nfts in particular, there is this experimentation on how people will regard an exchange value on the internet. that is exciting to me. emily: what does a successful game that uses nfts look like in your vision? >> yeah, we will not think of blockchain games or nft's as something separate. we will see these as games that have assets and those are worth something. people trade them, own them, take them with him, and it will be something that is standardized. so today if you look at the games that are the most popular in the world, they sell skins, characters, fortnite, kids play,

and the next step in the evolution of these digital assets is they will sit on the blockchain and people really have ownership of them. emily: and yet there is a huge debate about the future of nfts in gaming. a lot of folks don't want this to be the future. why is there so much pushback? >> it reminds me a lot of free to play. as a business model, it came out in gaming around 2007, 2008, and those early games like mafia wars. there was a lot of pushback from gamers who said these games are not great, not good, just something viral, i don't want to pay incrementally here i just want to pay upfront. what happened was there was more investment in the model and people build better games. people build games they want to play in general, and there what happened is 10 years later, every game is a free to play game in the market is worth tens of billions of dollars a year in

digital assets. so i think the same thing can be said of crypto were crypto games and the people are saying these games are not good yet. we don't need nfts. this is not something gamers want, but i think it is actually something that will become the predominant model as the games become better. emily: that said, where do see hype in this industry, whether nfts, crypto, or play to earn. i know you're not a huge fan of that in particular. are there technologies you see getting a disproportionate amount of tension that -- attention that should not be? >> the fundraising, the amounts games are raising is capturing the imagination of the game studios, players, and sometimes people are like it is ridiculous these games have not launched yet or have rudimentary gameplay compared to aaa titles in the traditional world raising hundreds of millions of dollars or have these economies with

billions of dollars. they think it is overhyped, and to some extent, that may be true, so the fundraising access -- aspect is overhyped. what is interesting to me as a technologist, these games shifting from closed economies with the game companies control everything, to really open economies where there is a system of developers and players to control what happens in the economy, and to me, that will inspire more people, like these games to become platforms on top of which many different developers build experiences, and these open ecosystems will be more durable and worth a lot more in the future. emily: we are seeing the fight to on the future of defi among venture capitalists and bigger players like jack dorsey. just had a controversial headline talking about how mark and reason and jack dorsey are starting a holy war of crypto.

what he think about the competition to invest in this basin whether it will be decentralized at all or whether it is a different players owning a? >> yeah, the argument is between how much decentralization is enough. jack on one side is like, you know, these venture capitalist are funding and owning a large portion of these protocols, so it is not truly decentralized, and i think mark and reason -- mark's position is someone has to fund these things and it is decentralized enough, and the answer to that question depends on like what your use case is, right? so bitcoin, a store that i for a massive amount of people in the world, you won a huge amount of decentralization. for something that is maybe more like a game, it might be variable how much decentralization you really need, because of how much, how and portly assets are in there

is true decentralization and no one can ever take control over this or, you know, i think like, that depends on the use, where defi, security might be the most important thing, and for game, it might fall in the middle. emily: now you have made a choice fairly early on to build on the solano blockchain versus the theory is, why? >> what prevented me from getting into crypto as a builder was usability. i saw with interest ethereum -- with interest and invested in it and thought it was interesting, but i did not see how you could go to an application for transactions for example something like twitch on it, so what got me excited about solano, for the first time, i felt like normal people could build on top of this and you could build something that reached a mass audience because the transaction speed and cost was low enough that it made sense for something more like a gaming use case where you might

have many different nft items in a game and you might trade in and out of them very quickly within one playing session, so it was like a usability you know, choice, but at the end of the day, fractal once to be wherever games want to be, so our goal is to expand to everywhere the game companies want to build it. emily: all right. we will be watching to see where this goes. you will have to come back soon for a progress report. twitch and fractal cofounder. coming up, we talk about the need to address teams and -- teenagers and mental health through technology. this is bloomberg. ♪ gy. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: right line -- bright line

just raised an additional $105 million in funding led by kkr, and earlier investors like alphabet. what is to come? i want to bring in the cofounder. we have been hearing about the health crisis facing kids and teenagers across the country, in part as a result of the pandemic. what is the need you believe is not being met that you're trying to fill with technology? >> emily, thank you for hav ing e. the need is for an affordable solution for families. today, one in five kids will be diagnosed with a mental health condition and 80% did not get appropriate treatment, because historically care has been really hard to access and hard to pay for for families. emily: so, how does bright line

solve that problem and make sure it is solving it with quality care? >> great question. we have built a care delivery system where we hire and manage our own team of pediatric-train coaches, therapists, psychiatrists, and speech language pathologists, and bring those services to insurance companies and contract with insurance companies to make sure the services are affordable to families, and then we provide those services virtually so that no matter where you sit in the country, you can access high quality behavioral health care for your kids. we have built this all through a model which has been proven and tested to be effective, and we measure clinical outcomes every single week for the children that are in our care. emily: how would you say the pandemic has exacerbated this crisis?\ you said 20% before the pandemic. what is the number now? >> the incident rates of

pediatric anxiety and depression have gone up 30%. new data just released last week by the cdc says one in five teenagers has considered committing suicide in the past year, so what we are seeing is across the country and frankly even globally, we are seeing a sharp increase in terms of the need and severity level of pediatric behavioral health conditions, and again, that was building already on a point of crisis for the country. the other thing that we are seeing is an acute shortage of clinicians, and especially conditions willing to work with insurance companies, so the affordability crisis is real as well. emily: so with better access and better care, how do you think those numbers can change? >> yeah, we believe there is no reason for kids all across the united states not to be able to receive care within a few short days of seeking care and treatment. now, we have a long way to go as a country still working on

stigma with parents and caregivers, but we are seeing stigma go down meaningfully amongst the new generation of children, adolescents, and teenagers, so that is good news. we are seeing more openness, so what we need to do is create affordable and high-quality access, and that is what bright line is doing across the country. the other thing we think is critical is reducing the lack of equity and equitable access. today, 75% of the counties in the u.s. do not have a single child or as adolescent psychologist, so one of the ways we reduce that lack of equity is by scaling using technology, so we have built a virtual solution to reach kids and families, where they are in the country. emily: all right. we will be watching. cofounder and ceo of bright line. thanks for sharing your story with us. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." don't forget to check out a new podcast. find this anywhere you get your podcast.

for our daily news roundup. i am emily chang and sentences cope you to have a wonderful weekend everyone. this is bloomberg. ♪ this is bloomberg. ♪

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david: rising recession concerns, a budget move to the center, and the killing continues in ukraine. this is "bloombergtechtv wall street week." i'm david western. this week, special contributor larry summers. >> we do not do anybody a favor when we overheat the economy because when we overheat the economy, the chickens do come home to roost. david: and a former ibm ceo on the opportunity for the united states to form a new coalition to compete with china in tech. >> i call it the super bowl of