>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond. this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang. emily: i'm emily chang entrance and cisco and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, elon musk is now the biggest shareholder in twitter. why did he wanted, and what change will he push for? or now that shares have shut up

27%, could he just sell? we have discovered from all angles. plus, we will hear directly from okta ceo todd mckinnon his first interview since that massive third-party breach was disclosed. what really happened, and how are they addressing customer concerned? we will have all the details in an exclusive interview. and coming out of crypto's breakout year of 2021, what trends should we watch for now that greater adoption is underway? from inflation to regulation. we will speak from a top exec from the crypto platform gemini about their latest global report. first to the biggest story of the day, elon musk and twitter. the tesla and spacex ceo is closing in a filing he now owns a 9.2% stake in twitter worth somewhere around $3.7 billion, making him the company's largest shareholder. the big question, how will he use this new power? let's bring in ed ludlow.

the big question is just how active is elon musk going to be? ed: it is the $3.7 billion question. the filing type e used, 13g, you are only eligible to do so if you have no intention of changing or trying to control the operations of the issuing company. in other words, you are a passive investor, not an active investor. look at the board. 27% gain on twitter, the best performing stock on the s&p 500 on a day where we saw very muted moves. various asset classes not moving strongly in either direction. but that gain in twitter having real effects on other social media stocks, pushing the nasdaq 100 to show some outperformance when it comes to the technology sector. let's put some size and scope on this. this is the biggest jump in twitter stock since november 2013. in other words, the biggest jump twitter has experienced since listing day. i know you were there in 2013, you witnessed that ipo, the

massive surge in twitter shares. if you look at that chart, we have not had many days like that for twitter since over the last decade. this is a stock that was underperforming year to date. it is now in positive territory year to date. but things have kind of lost momentum since 2013. emily: it has. i was on the floor of the new york stock exchange when twitter went public. i want to stick with twitter now, the social platform gaining the most since is trading debut in 2013. joining us to discuss, katie stanton, founder of moxxie ventures, and an early twitter employee. sarah, why did elon buy this stake? srah: i think he has hinted a bit at why in the past few days. among his beef with twitter is he thinks they are doing well on free speech. news to elon, twitter does not

have a free speech commitment under the first amendment. they are just a private company. but i do think that with this influence, with this power, even if it is a passive stake, decanted exert some -- he can exert some behind the scenes influence over twitter. we do not know exactly what he is going to do, but it might have something to do with their content moderation efforts. emily: katie, you worked at twitter for almost six years until 2016, and you tweeted today, maybe take 9% of one of the -- and accelerate their path sot clean energy. what is your reaction to elon buying this stake? katie: it is a very offensive way to get yourself an edit button. it is a very interesting move. elon is a power user, he knows the product well, he knows it is the place for the world conversation.

first, it's really difficult. elon has been very vocal about making twitter and unfettered free speech platform. it is one of the founding ethos of twitter, it is not an absolute. and we see the consequences of what happens when there is no accountability when disinformation spreads. so, it's complicated. second, it is tricky because it comes -- it becomes another distraction for the twitter team. but it's basically what we would have called a monday. emily: on that note, that twitter shares have lancaster for years -- have languished for years despite all this activity, president trump on the platform, so many ups and downs you look at what happens on twitter on a daily basis. what do you make up the strategy that the current twitter team is taking without jack dorsey there, under new leadership? katie: i'm a big fan.

i think jack has hired externally well. i have worked side-by-side with the chief officers. they are excellent. they are excellent at what they do, they are thoughtful, ethical. i know he's very well respected by the team. he is well prepared. he has been at twitter for a long time. is technical. he has led the engineering team. i am very bullish and i am very confident twitter team will continue to evolve and protect the platform. emily: sarah, elon musk, the way that he disclosed this indicates that he is not intending to be very active, or join the board. i mean, maybe he just once an exclusive edit button, as katie was alluding to. but how active do we expect him to be, knowing that elon musk does not just sit back and let things happen? sarah: i think the most interesting thing will be any criticism he makes of twitter now, anything he says on twitter about the company, might move the stock. so we can be in for a few very

volatile months ahead. there is also the question of whether twitter will feel that they can moderate elon musk now, should he violate the rules. would they take down their biggest shareholder? that is a question i have. we are still waiting to hear if the company an elon musk have talked about this. it is worth keeping in mind the with twitter what katie just said. this is a company that has been through a lot of drama. the reason the ceo is there now is jack dorsey was looking into a succession plan under the activities by elliott management in the last year or so. and this is a company without founder voting control. so unlike facebook, unlike google, unlike amazon, unlike snap, this is a company that is very vulnerable to to takeovers, to m&a speculation, to activist investors, to all of that. so i think that elon musk, whatever he plans to do or even

hints that he might do, we know how much people follow what he says on twitter. now it could actually move twitter's stock every time. emily: katie, what is your take on his potential opinion, that may be a new platform is needed? you are a venture capitalist now, you are placing bets on what could be or what you believe will be the next big thing. do you think there is room or opportunity for a new social platform? katie: i don't really think that the world needs another centralized social media platform. i think we have more urgent needs such as climate change, such as innovations in health care and economic mobility. but i do think that there is a lot of room for improvement make sure that the platforms that we connect on are healthier, that they are safer, and that we are doing a better job of reducing a lot of the toxicity and the hate that tends to spread uncontrolled on a lot of these platforms. emily: jack dorsey and elon musk, sarah, have had some

interaction on twitter. when elon posted that question about whether the twitter algorithm should be open source, jack responded saying the choice of which algorithm to use or not should be open to everyone. and then a few years ago, he actually said directly that he liked how elon musk uses twitter, that he is focused on solving existential problems, sharing his thinking openly. i respect that a lot, all the ups and downs that come with it. and yet we have not heard from jack yet today. what do you make of that? sarah: i think it is almost like, did elon go out of his way to defend his friend who is no longer ceo of twitter? it seems like to have a bit of a friendly relationship. but it is unclear now what happens. it's also, there are a lot of viability issues now if there is some public discussion about what might happen next.

like i said, it could move the stock, change things. so i think everyone is just trying to be very careful about what they are going to say, if anything, about what happens next. and i'm really waiting to hear what jack wants to do. he has talked about decentralization of social media. the other day he actually tweeted that he regretted what he built. he regretted being a part of contributing to this very centralized, viral media ecosystem. so, i think that there is some soul searching that jerk dorsey has done and maybe elon musk has been part of that. emily: katie, what you think jack is thinking now? katie: i have no idea. i have no idea what he is thinking. i am big jack fan. i am sure he is very thoughtful in thinking through what the future holds, and what this new development may or may not, how

it impacts the product and the team. but i have no idea what jack is thinking. emily: well, we all want to know. katie stanton, founder and general partner of moxxie ventures and an early twitter employee, thank you, alongside bloomberg's sarah frier. coming up, the okta third-party breach. we will be joined by ceo and cofounder todd mckinnon, his first interview since the breach was disclosed. what happened and what have they learned? that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪ is bloomberg. ♪

emily: okta in focus after a security breach at one of its third parties. the breach happened in january but okta did not disclose it

until two months later, and after the hacker group claimed responsibility and posted screenshots of alleged customer accounts on telegram. okta and their ceo todd mckinnon say he has spoken to hundreds of customers about what happened and joins us now here in an exclusive interview, is first since disclosing the breach. thank you for being here. todd: it is good to be here. emily: i know you have been investigating the incident and talking to a lot of customers. what can you tell us now about what exactly happened and how much damage was done? todd: to put it in context, okta is the trusted identity provider for over 15,000 companies. big, small, government, private companies. so any time like this happens, it is a big deal. we will talk about details on what happened but i want to be really clear that we are responsible. so, third parties this and third parties that. it is our responsibility to make sure that does not happen. there are many takeaways from us but the big takeaway is as we

have done before, we are going to learn from our mistakes and we are going to be transparent about what we are doing differently and in a concrete way, how we are going to prevent this happening. emily: so how did it happen? todd: as you mentioned, there is this third cardi -- third-party call center. inside this call center there are about 40 people who work on behalf of okta to provide low level support to our customers. and the hackers broke into this site. so, they used some vulnerabilities and actually the competitor's software to break into the site. and when they were in the site, they were able to take screenshots of what the support agents were doing on their computers. and that is what they posted on twitter a couple weeks ago. emily: so how many customers were actually compromised? you said initially as many as 366. todd: this is really important because through this whole process we are trying to be as transparent and as conservative in our impact analysis as possible. so we looked at every possible

customer that had any kind of support interaction over the five days in question. and that is the list of potentially impacted customers. now, everyone is very concerned about this, as they should be. okta is critical infrastructure for 15,000 companies. so everyone assumed the worst, and we did as well. but the actual technical impact to companies in terms of what they need to do is near zero. near zero. but it is incumbent upon us -- emily: what do you mean by that, technical impact? todd: actually what they need to do as a response to this, what disclosures they need to make. what they actually need to change is near zero. emily: 366 companies, how many were actually compromised? todd: potentially impacted, 366. we are drawing that line very conservatively. because of the nature of how our system works and our product, the okta security technology worked well in this case. we really limit what a support agent can actually do on the systems, so the impact was near zero. emily: so how many of those 366

customers do you believe was impacted? todd: it is not exactly clear, because the hacker was essentially looking over this report -- over the support agent's shoulders. so we want to work with our customers to have a detailed analysis of what actually happened. so we have shared with all of these 366 companies detailed click by click support logs so we can work in conjunction with them to truly verify that the impact was zero. this investigation is open and it will not be closed until we get every customer to agree with our assessment. emily: you faced a barrage of criticism including from your own customers about the timeline with which this was disclosed. why did you wait almost two months to share this with the public, and only after screenshots were shared by presumably -- todd: this comes up over and over. and it is unacceptable, and we are accountable for it. the fact that when ideal -- when i tell people the facts, they get a better understanding.

what we actually knew is that an account takeover attempt actually failed and we detected it and it was not clear, the impact. we did not know the extent of the forensics report. it certainly did not contain screenshots. so for all intents and purposes the first time we knew about this, the severity of it and what the hackers got, was on march 22 when they lead to the information. emily: you are initial statement also stated that okta itself was not breached, and this was in the middle of a lot of conflicting and confusing information, not just for your customers but for the cyber community, for journalists like myself. how do you regain the trust of the enterprise community after this? and for perspective customers who are saying why should we use okta? todd: it is very important, we are a trusted brand and that trust has been damaged. we do take accountability for all the mistakes we have made, and we have made mistakes. one of them was the communication was not as clear as it should have been. we are trying to committee kate more openly, more transparently,

and ultimately more clearly. when customers in conversations like this understand the facts, how the unfolded and what we knew when, and more importantly, as we share how we are going to do better in the future, to make sure this doesn't happen again, to make sure customer support environment are not put in in insecure places, to make sure the communication is more timely and clear, and there is no question about what was and was not breached. that is what we are committed to doing better next time. emily: what is your sense of how the business will be impacted by this? have you lost customers as a result of this? todd: is very early. our focus has been on talking to customers and prospects. when we have those conversations, what is very clear is a lot of these same questions come up, which is why i am so grateful for you allowing me to talk about this today. when we address these concerns and we talk most important about how mistakes were made, we're taking responsibility, and how we have concrete plans to remediate this and make sure it

does not happen again. they are in a much better place at the end of the conversation then when they started. emily: bloomberg has reported that the alleged mastermind of this group is a 16-year-old who lives with his mom in england. what do you make of the fact that teenager may have pulled this off? todd: it is interesting, but ultimately it does not matter. because we have to protect customers against everyone. teenagers, adults, nationstates, and people that have various different motives. it is incumbent upon us to make sure this never happens again, and that is including learning from all the mistakes made. and more importantly, collaborating with the broader cyber communities to share open and transparent information about what happened. one of the biggest weaknesses in cyber response is people are free to share what happened. if you look time after time again, even this subcontractor to okta, they were hesitant to share what they knew because they were afraid of litigation, and they are afraid of reputational damage. this hinders our response as a

community over and over again, and we have to be better at that. we are trying to lead the way. we are trying to be a leader and be open and transparent. if you look back at the facts we have -- we're proud of this transparency, despite the mistakes we have made. emily: are you worried about, or are you bracing for any potential regulatory scrutiny as a result of, a, what happened, or b, the timeline? todd: i am confident with the facts and how we have behaved in light of those facts. but the bigger question is should there be more regulation to get this logjam broken of people disclosing things. i know the sec is working on things, the federal government is working on things. and we would welcome that, because we think the best thing to happen would be more openness and transparency. emily: have you been talking to law enforcement about the incident and self, authorities in the u.k.? todd: this is an ongoing investigation and we have been working with law enforcement and they are doing a good job. emily: so what will you be doing differently going forward?

todd: like i said, there are many learnings and we are committed to not only taking those learnings, doing a deep analysis and practically putting things in place to make sure these happens -- these problems don't happen again. we are going to publish this report to our customers so they can collaborate and have input into this. so the first thing is just to make sure that no customer support information is ever placed in an insecure environment. ironically here, the problem with this site is while they used okta to log into the support systems, they did not use okta to protect their own front door is a company. it was a competitor product, and the competitor product was at fault for this breach. and we are going to make sure that these companies that are third parties to us use okta, among money other things, to make sure that they are up to snuff. emily: so do you no longer work with them? todd: we no longer work with them. emily: what is the problem that -- product they were using? todd: you have to ask them. emily: the biden administration

has warned of more cyberattacks amid the ongoing war between russia and ukraine. how would you describe the environment in cyberspace right now? is there chaos, is there a greater risk of any type of cyberattack happening? todd: a couple things. first of all, all of our information shows, or indicates that this was not related. but like i said, we are very diligent and we are checking every possible scenario, and we are most focused on protecting all of these kinds of things from ever happening. but everyone knows that the power of technology is so great, and with that power comes risk. so everyone has a general heightened awareness and heightened investment to stop these kind of things from happening. in addition to that, what is happening geopolitically has everyone on edge, which explains partially why people were so concerned and there is so much stress and strife. to what ultimately has turned out to be something very minor and technical.

emily: todd mckinnon, thank you for joining us and thank you for explaining what happened. coming up, apple employees are pushing back on returning to the office after two years at home. more on what some work on the iphone maker's in flexible work policies, next. this is bloomberg. ♪ is bloomberg. ♪

emily: a few other stories we continue to watch, workers at apple are pushing back on returning to the office after two years working from home. the company's relatively inflexible remote work policies, some employees say, are inspiring them to look elsewhere. they are required to be back in the office twice a week by the end of the month, and on mondays, tuesdays, and wednesdays by may 23. a company backed by celebrity

investors listing on man -- on nasdaq via spac,-beast. investors including tom brady and tennis champion naomi osaka. we will be back with more of "bloomberg technology" and elon musk's big stake in twitter after the break. this is bloomberg. ♪ this is bloomberg. ♪

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emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i'm emily chang in san francisco. let's get back to our story of the day, a surge in twitter shares after elon musk disclosed a 2.9% stake and boosted some of its social media rivals as well. ed ludlow back with the movers. not just twitter. ed: we saw the likes of a meta, snap, google, and also youtube made gains, caught up in this optimism and interest during markets day monday in social media stocks. that surge in twitter it raises

the question, is this a positive move, elon musk taking a 9.2% stake in twitter? what will happen next. earlier we heard from cathie wood, the coo of arc whose innovation shed twitter shares earlier this year. cathie: i will say this could be setting up for another leadership change at twitter. you never know. i am not jumping to this conclusion automatically. i am saying it is one of many possibilities. it will either be changing the policy of the company, to really open source, the censorship for call people out on censorship. or it will be a management change. i don't know what is going to happen. ed: cathie wood saying she is not sure what is going to happen, but this could be a shot across the bow for the ceo of

twitter, it could be a warning from elon musk. she also talked a bit about the landscape for social media stocks, which of course have not been great this year. just a quick point, though, that that jump in twitter shares we saw during monday's session took twitter firmly into positive territory where you have the likes of facebook down more than 30% year to date and snap down more than 10% year-to-date. will this put more attention on the space? emily: attention, indeed. we will see. friday marked the first time ever the software company palantir entered space. during spacex's falcon nine launch last week, their edge-ai -enabled satellite was deployed, a milestone which could significantly speed up the delivery of data sent back to earth. joining me now, coo of palantir, shyam sankar. great to have you back with us. so what exactly is this satellite doing right now? shyam: thank you for having me

back, emily. we are so excited to have our hai technology -- our edge ai technology in this satellite. it allows us to quickly move ai models right next to the satellite's camera itself. you think about the pictures we are taking, the video you can get from space. these are massive files and it takes so long to bring that data down to earth, and it really introduces tremendous latency in terms of how long it takes you to leverage insights that are happening the real world, given that downlink delay. my moving the ai into space you can do that in seconds and get the information down to earth in less than a minute, and that is a fundamental game changer. emily: can you share some examples of what will improve because you have this capability? shyam: when we move -- so, commercial space has exploded over the last decade. we are drowning in collection. but if you think about this from, say, a military

commander's perspective, they are not interested -- they want to know how many tanks are there, how many transport launchers are there. and how often can i revisit that? i need that information every hour. and with this capability, you can reduce the latency to provide real side -- real-time insight into what is happening in the world. emily: now, the war on ukraine has sparked a backlash against russia's continued dominance in space, and you have a lot of companies looking for partners as a result. has palantir seeing any new business because of that? shyam: we have really mobilized our entire company against the invasion of ukraine and the consequences of that. i think in many ways we believe this situation was foreseeable and at the time of our listing we went publicly about how we would not work the russian government and actually with russian companies, given that

overall context. but now our software is being used to power refugee operations from romania, poland, across europe. i have talked before about how supply chain is a thought -- is a software problem. in our software is hoping match all of the goods that are coming in, the beds that are available, everything coming from the hands of the donors to the hands of the refugees and those who need it, and doing it as efficiently and effectively as possible, given the incredible scale, the millions that need help. similarly, we are helping commercial companies with their supply chain. there are a lot of automotive parts in ukraine. we are helping by dynamically changing their production plans out there. and most obviously we have been deeply involved in helping with the military response not just in the u.s. but across european nations who are on a fundamentally different footing.

emily: how are you helping them? shyam: we are helping them gain insight into what is happening on the ground. a lot of that is coming from space and coming from reports that are happening through different information sources. there is a lot happening on social media right now that gives you fundamental insights, and helping drive coordination around logistics. a lot of that plays into refugee operations. how many folks are we expecting, how do we plan for the capacity for folks we need to provide housing and betting for? there's an enormous amount of orphans we are helping provide housing and shelter for as they come across the border. emily: now, you have talked about supply chain trends in the past, food shortages. i am curious given your unique view at all the data palantir has, how is the supply chain at this moment? is it easing? and especially when it comes to food, where in so many parts of the world, we're short on? shyam: i think it is actually

getting worse right now. when i look at inflation, we had inflationary pressure from covid, we had inflationary pressure from ukraine, but now we have inflationary pressure is released to energy, as a relates to food. what we are seeing is we are seeing companies that have a granular, transaction asset of the once thriving. they have a better ability to do management, find substitutes in the supply chain, and be more competitive and offer the lower price. and those that don't are struggling to understand what this means not only for their own profitability, but how they should be reacting to pricing the market. the greater challenges lie ahead of us here for the commercial world. emily: what do you think is going to happen with the markets? i mean, palantir shares, along with the rest of big tech, has taken a nosedive. palantir, since the war started, actually trending upwards. shyam: we had a very strong 2021.

we did 41% revenue growth with 28% adjusted cash flow. in this environment, investors are very excited to see the company and of strong revenue growth and profitability on cash generation basis. the u.s. commercial business doubled for the second year in a row. the government business grew 47% year-over-year. so, we came out of our q3 earnings call thinking we are still excited about the business, it is clear from the feedback investors were mixed. they do not quite see everything we are seeing. we went into the q4 call breaking a lot of -- which allowed investors to see what we were seeing and why we were so excited about the performance of the key growth areas, u.s. commercial. and i think the market is reacting to that. emily: shyam sankar, coo of palantir. always good to have you on the show. thank you. coming up, 2021, it was crypto's breakout year. we're going to talk with gemini coo noah perlman about their new

report on global crypto trends, and what is to come in 2022. this is bloomberg. ♪ s is bloomberg. ♪

emily: time for our crypto report now. with bitcoin not being the lead here. a sign of a broadening rally in digital tokens. while bitcoin over the same period remains a little changed and still trading within a tight range. i want to talk about this much more with noah perlman, chief operating officer of the crypto

platform gemini. great to have you with us. what is your take on what is happening in crypto markets at the moment, given all of the buzz and activity we have seen around crypto specific to the war on ukraine? noah: emily, great to be back on the show and thank you so much for having me on to discuss gemini's global report and all things crypto. you are right, there has been so much buzz about crypto over the past year, and we were really excited to dig into the actual data to dig into trends and adoption, barriers to entry, and general thoughts on capped out. we looked at 30,000 respondents and found four key findings. first, increased adoption globally, 2021 really was a breakout year. we saw crypto ownership really doubled in several geographies including the u.s. that means basically about half of the people who bought their first crn 2021. second, and interestingly, we saw that in addition to

increased ownership there was a real broadening of the base of crypto investors, with more women and more diverse investors coming into the space. third, we saw that respondents were really tuned to inflation and it showed inflation is a significant driver of demand in the space. finally, consumers worldwide continue to seek out more education and regulatory clarity concerning digital assets. emily: we are looking at india, hong kong, brazil. looks like they had a big uptick. where are you seeing the most adoption right now? noah: we are seeing the most interest in developing countries where there's historic currency instability. so where we see that, our theory is where your currency is stable, crypto may be a nice to have, it helps to diversify your portfolio. but where we see currencies that have been devalued against the dollar, we found that people are

five more likely to buy crypto. there, the theory is that crypto there is not a nice to have, but a need to ahve. emily: crypto has been trading between $34,000 for most of 2022. do you think that is going to change? noah: i talked to my traders about that. we do think that we are poised for continued growth and price increase this year, and a number of things are driving it. certainly inflation, which we have seen that worldwide where there is inflation, it is a driver of demand. obviously we have inflationary pressures here in the u.s. and also the war in ukraine has demonstrated some interest in ensuring that countries are taking a look at their currencies and making sure that they're not as attendant on world events. and we have seen crypto as a mechanism of easing friction for cross-border payments. and so we will see if that

increases price movement here this year. emily: what headwinds are you bracing for? is it regulation? noah: regulation and education continue to be the headwinds. so, despite the fact that the crypto markets continue to have tremendous investments, and we saw more than $10.5 billion in investment in this space in the fourth quarter of 2021 alone. we still have regulatory uncertainty and a lack of clarity. and, look, this is not just in the u.s., it is worldwide. we have a sense that governments, regulators know that they have to do something. often they don't know what to do, so they will make statements that are not always helpful to industry. you will see things like, a plan for a plan, or we are going to study it. and with the markets want is certainty. tell us what they are, we are more than happy to work with regulators, and we do, and so we can get some clarity and move forward. emily: noah perlman, coo of gemini. noah, good to have you back. coming up, more on elon musk's

big twitter stake. what does he plan to do with it? that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪ is bloomberg. ♪

emily: let's get back to the story of the day. shares of twitter soaring after elon musk announced he has taken a 9.2% stake in the company, the largest of any investor. natasha lamb joins us now to discussed. as an activist investor yourself, what do you make of this? natasha: well, i mean, it is

hard to say. i think that i believe that elon musk's critique is that social media companies need to be better managed. that is something he has been saying for years, they need better governance. but it's so interesting because i don't see elon musk as a golden child of good governance. even if you just look at tesla, where he inhabited the role of ceo and chairman initially. that was bad governance 101. tesla struggled with allegations of racial discrimination. they could certainly look to improve the diversity of their board. and in fact, musk has gotten in trouble on twitter before with the securities and exchange commission, the sec, for saying that funding was secured to take tesla public when it was not. was that free speech was that a regulatory violation? but as part of the sec

settlement, he actually had to step down as chair of tesla's board. again, we do not think he should have been in both roles anyway. and we have seen the same with mark zuckerberg, who i guess now, another social media mogul, struggled to learn that lesson, that that unchecked power is detrimental to facebook, or meta. i think that musk has the ego and the capital -- and i say this in the best way possible -- he has the ego and the capital to try and reform twitter. but i don't think he has the expertise in terms of how to actually make that happen. emily: interesting. you brought up the funding secured tweet, which sent shares of tesla up. he can tweet about doge or bitcoin and then sell a bunch of it tomorrow. he could turn around and just sell this twitter stake, and we

would -- and he would have made a lot of money in a single day. is there something wrong with that? natasha: yeah, because that sounds like manipulation, not free speech. and i guess the question, the big question mark is, what are musk's intentions for twitter? based on his tweet, it appears musk thinks twitter needs free speech. but what it really needed is upholding free speech, while dealing with rampant manipulation of social media platforms. it is not just saying, oh, i like this stock or i don't, or making jokes, playing games like that. it is the misinformation, the disinformation, the likes we have seen from russia. voter suppression. racism, sexism, abuse, along those lines. violence. think about the mass killings in el paso, christchurch, new zealand, not to mention the

insurrection on our capital. all of those issues need to be dealt with in a mosaic. so i think musk might be simplifying things in a way that just isn't possible. emily: now, virginia capital still has a small stake in twitter, but smaller than it once was. why is that? natasha: i mean, take a look at the stock. [laughter] emily: right, so, i wonder, could elon musk be good for twitter shoulders? natasha: -- twitter shareholders? natasha: one thing about elon musk is he is a brilliant engineer and he is a systems thinker. but i do not think he is a human or civil-rights expert, which is really what is needed. so if you look at silicon valley, they continue to fall over their shoelaces figuring out how to deal with all of the issues i just mentioned, this huge mosaic.

but i do not see anything in musk's background makes him the man for the job. i would like, however, to see musk support stronger governance at twitter, now as an outsized shareholder. and that could be in the form of board memories who do have human and civil rights expertise to address free-speech. we have stepped back our positions in twitter because of all the issues it has had. but we do still own some twitter, and we actually have a proposal going to a vote on may 25 asking twitter to add board members with human and civil rights expertise. that gets exactly to musk's point on free-speech, that is what it is about. so, maybe the best outcome is musk can throw his weight behind that proposal. emily: now of course jack dorsey left fairly abruptly last year, left as ceo, left the board, but

is still a fairly large shareholder. has 2.3%. we have not heard from jack. what was your experience in dealing with him as an activist investor, and what do you imagine he is thinking? natasha: i think it is a tough job. and it was tough for jack dorsey, who was also splitting his time. i think he was a well-intentioned individual that tried to do the right things at twitter. and took some steps to do that. and of course because it is such a huge mosaic, you are going to get criticism from both sides. i think it was the right choice for him to step down and have the new coo. but there is still work to be done to transform the town square, if that's what this is. a lot of people spent a lot of time on twitter, but it's a

small chunk of the population, and the manipulation that is happening over these platforms is really unfortunate. so, we will see what happens, but there is room for improvement. and maybe musk can be part of that. emily: indeed. natasha lamb, lots of open questions. thank you so much for weighing in and trying to answer some of those. thank you as always. and that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology ." we are back here tomorrow. we are going to be joined by kristin smith, executive director director of the blockchain association. we will also have an exclusive conversation with johnny price. don't forget to check out our new podcast as well. find it anywhere you get your podcasts. the daily bloomberg tech news roundup. i am emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪ this is bloomberg. ♪

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haidi: good morning and welcome to daybreak us show you. we are counting you down to asia's major market opens. shery: the top stories this hour -- the u.s. and eu may impose more sanctions on moscow on reports russian troops masker civilians in ukraine, allegations denied by the kremlin. -- massacred civilians in ukraine. haidi: