>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology, with emily chang. emily: a retail giant defeating

a push to unionize one of their new york warehouses. weeks after they won at another warehouse across the street. warren buffett discloses a massive stake in activision in a merger arbitrage play. plus a wide ranging conversation with the former nintendo coo. media stocks like netflix, spotify, meta, falling down 50% so far this year. what is a good business in media right now? we will ask rich greenfield. all of that in a moment but first, emily, investors are on edge this week, we are expecting the biggest rate hike from the fed into decades. >> it had been largely a choppy session with traders anticipating the fed raising rates in their decision from wednesday. the s&p 500 ended up nearly .6%.

this is after it fell over 1% on the intraday trading basis with big moves in the bond market. the move on the u.s. 10 year treasury bond topping 3% for the first time since december of 2018 when we saw the dollar moving higher with the spot index having it approach its highest levels since 2020. i mentioned a choppy session. look no further than the volatility index to see the uncertainty gyrating the markets right now, paring back there gains a bit but if you look at the year to date basis, up over 85%, it all has to do with the fed and uncertainty when it comes to the path of monetary policy. in an interview with bloomberg news, jane fraser talked about volatility, saying that her trading desks are seeing volatility they haven't seen in decades and she cited rising

inflation and concerns about recession risks really adding to the market uncertainty. let's get to amazon, one of the biggest stocks in the u.s. equity market, eking out a positive gain to finish the day, down a bit in the after hours. but it fell almost 5% on the intraday basis after that big earnings report that disappointed a lot of wall street on friday where they fell 14%, their biggest intraday loss since 2006. interesting to note that even after that report not a single equity analyst has changed their recommendation for the stock. whether it is by, hold, or sell, there hasn't really been any movement, suggesting the report didn't really move the narrative . there's also big union news that i know you're going to get to. no big news so far how that has impacted amazon stock prices. emily: turning out to another

part of the narrative with workers in new york voting not to join an upstart union weeks after they had won a victory at a warehouse across the street. spencer, who covers amazon for us, joins us now. given that the union was just a winner across the street, what happened here? >> it's a great question. it's tough to really make big sweeping conclusions out of this. the question was is the union going to build on the momentum from the last vote or suffer a setback and you will see that they suffered a setback. what it means for their overall drive and momentum? we just don't know. these things take months to finally unravel. they are generally contested and the process can be extremely slow. you have still got a union vote that was denied twice still being litigated and we've got the union vote that was approved

at the other facility that amazon is contesting. we are just going to have a lot of, i think more of these as we move forward. emily: surely not every warehouse is the same. could it be that conditions are simply different in different warehouses? brexit could be. this was a sorting center, the initial one was one of these bigger fulfillment centers. and i think that maybe people have this false notion that it's this big community of people. people go to these facilities as places they work with a clock in, clock out, go home. there isn't necessarily a big community that congregates and that is really up to the union now to make that happen. to increase that kind of solidarity among the workers. and a big thing against them is a lot of the people just are fairly apathetic. maybe they don't want to have this job for very long and don't see them doing work to unionize

in then they question it, do they have to pay dues, what are they getting an exchange. emily: one person apathetic, someone who was critical and amazon is now trying to overturn it. what is the status of that? >> there will be a hearing later in the month. amazon was concerned that the media was allowed to get too close to the voting when it occurred. it supposed to be this pristine process where the workers are allowed to voice their thoughts without fear of reprisal or intimidation or that kind of thing. amazon is trying to throw allegations that this was not a pristine process. so, we will see where that goes. emily: all right, you will keep us updated. thank you so much. coming up, he spent years

disrupting the gaming world and nintendo on top. he joins me next to talk about the disruptive forces shaping the gaming industry today. and his new book. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: shares of activision blizzard jumped in u.s. trading after warren buffett us berkshire hathaway raised its stake in the videogame maker to 9.5% of activision stocks that are up considerably from the less than 2% stake that the company held at the end of last year with warren buffett settling -- betting on the merger between activision and microsoft with plenty of hurdles to clear but my next guest has -- knows plenty of things about

the world of gaming, i'm joined by reggie fils-aime, president and coo of nintendo, with his new book, "disrupting the game." your book chronicles the rise of nintendo and how you navigated a lot of different disruptive forces. i'm curious, looking back, it's been almost 20 years since you joined the company. what do you know now to help folks -- that could help folks navigate the drama of the gaming industry today? reggie: the gaming industry always undergoes so much change, new technology into new forms of gaming. again like fortnite didn't exist -- a game like fortnite didn't exist five years ago. as i continue to be engaged with the gaming industry, we are constantly thinking about what's next, where are the new technologies going to take you and how do you continue growing

the business moving forward? you talk about the activision merger. i do believe there will continue to be consolidation in the overall gaming industry space but i also believe it is going to give rise to new smaller studios that are going to be even more aggressive in bringing new types of content to the marketplace. the big will continue getting bigger but they are going to be -- there are going to be relit innovative smaller players in the market as well. emily: let's talk about activision for a moment. some investors don't think this is going to happen. do you? >> when you look at the overall combined entity, it makes the new combined business one of the top three gaming businesses, but not in a number one position. that is still held by apple, i believe, with sony not far behind. it's not a situation where the merger is going to create a new

biggest player on the block and as i said earlier i think there are going to be other types of mergers, other entities that are going to continue growing in the overall space. i do think it passes all the antitrust hurdles, but as you said, it has a long way to play out. emily: you recently told me that you are a big believer in blockchain technology as a big opportunity in the gaming world. can you walk this out further? how you see it benefiting players in the developer ecosystem? reggie: i believe that blockchain technology can create an ability for new types of different games to be created. games where you are actually playing to own a piece of content. i also believe the blockchain will enable developers to potentially create new types of different games. just as augmented reality gave rise to games like pokemon go,

this fundamental technology can give rise to new and different types of games. now what has to happen though is fundamentally the games need to be worth playing. technology by itself doesn't necessarily create new forms of content, but it enables new and different types of play to come to bear. that is what i believe will happen when you look at blockchain as a technology and what it can do for gaming. emily: could that though it turned -- eliminate intermediaries like big gaming studios? reggie: i don't think it eliminates the big gaming studio but i do think it changes the payment mechanism, changes may be how retailers participate in the industry. i think that is where there is a bigger risk for great game creators and development studios . as long as they are developing novel content that speaks to the consumer, i think they will do fine. i would be more concerned if i was a retailer in this space and

what it looks like and 5, 10 years. emily: nintendo, for example, has traditionally avoided giving players control of things like game data and in game items. do you see that changing? reggie: i would say that nintendo has evolved to do much more digital in downloadable content. there really is no gaming company out there today that truly lets its players own all the content. once a game potentially comes off the developers systems, all of the mechanisms where they are updating the games, once that happens, the player is always at risk for potentially losing their content, losing what they have spent years building. which is why i think lock chain can change the dynamic so that when i create something i can truly own it forever. which i think is a very, very appealing to a gamer today. emily: speaking of new

technology on the horizon, i recently interviewed you at sxsw and you had some very controversial remarks about meta-and the mark zuckerberg vision for the metaverse. i want to replay what you had reggie: reggie: to say then. i am not a buyer of that idea. i don't think that their current finish and is going to be successful. >> why not? reggie: i say that because first, and i don't know if anyone from facebook is here, but you have to admit that facebook itself is not an innovative company. emily: you can see my face there in response to that remark. i'm curious, what reaction have you had to that, if any, since? reggie: well, let me just finish the thought. i said that facebook has been a fast follower, they have

typically taken other initiatives and pushed them forward. they have been an acquirer. looking at the things they are doing with instagram, they acquire that business. the only piece of completely new technology or completely new ideas they did was the very first social network. that's where i was coming from when i said that. meta-today, i wouldn't qualify them as an innovative company. what i found shocking was the amount of people who agreed with the statement in the statement overall that the other reasons, the fact that they don't partner very well or have a lot of credibility or have suffered credibility issues with consumers. this all affects the concept of the metaverse where ideally you have one overall environment that is digital in nature, there is a common currency, all of those things are fundamental to at least my visual on the metaverse. this is where i see them as a

company having some issues. emily: i wonder if there are any metaverse companies that you like, like traditional gaming companies, and tendo, stock lagging because people are looking at other iterations of the metaverse. what do you thick of that assessment, the pace of innovation at these other companies, including nintendo, which isn't trumpeting a vision for the metaverse? emily: there are a number of different things. -- reggie: i thing there are a number of different things. companies like epic are doing interesting things with the platform. introducing avatars and having events within the space. i believe that roadblocks has the potential to really push on this area quite aggressively. i think the market is down on

nintendo in part because while the nintendo switch continues to do exceptionally well, they have already announced that stocks will be down and hinting that there will be challenges in the next fiscal. i think that is why investors reacted to that stock in terms of where they see it going in the next 12 to 18 months. in terms of other companies doing interesting things, you know, as i said with you on stage, there are a number of tightly held smaller companies doing interesting in the space that will come to light in the next couple of months. emily: any advice for nintendo leadership today? reggie: i'm still in very good terms with all my peers and my friends over at nintendo. whenever they call me for advice, which isn't too often, i've been away for three years now, i give them a lot of my opinion. look, the nintendo switch is on the verge of becoming the

best-selling system of all time. that speaks a lot to all of the momentum they have and the wonderful content they are creating. emily: since we last talked, we saw netflix lose subscribers for the first time in a decade and a lot of folks are concerned that streaming has hit its peak. reggie: i actually don't believe that. i think there are a number of different factors going on, specific to netflix. there are a lot of new players in the streaming space. they need to take another look at the overall strategy for how they pair their content. i personally believe that binging has become a bit passe. looking at hbo and what other players are doing, they are coming back to having appointment tv with content airing on a regular day and a regular schedule. i think those are some of the things they might have to look at rather than complete overhaul

of programming. emily: interesting advice for the netflix team, reggie. appreciate you joining us, as always. author of his new book, disrupting the game. available now. coming up, could cyber threats be the greatest threats we face? more on what the war in ukraine is teaching us about cybersecurity, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: as the war in ukraine rages on, a recent report from microsoft saying russia has carried out hundreds of cyber operations including destructive attacks against ukraine throughout the invasion in an effort to do grain the ukrainian government, military, and undermine public trust in the institutions. to talk about what it all means

for the future of cybersecurity abroad and here at home is camille stewart. great to have you with us. i'm so curious what google has seen in light of the war in ukraine. have you seen a big uptick in cyberattacks? >> yes, we are focused on elevating information to help the folks on the ground in ukraine understand the threats headed their way and we have provided a lot of's work to homeland as well and are leveraging android phones to provide a kind of air rapid alert that folks need to stay safe. we are providing support in any way that we can. emily: specifically how have attacks ramped up? >> they are mostly locally targeted and we are seeing some activity around misinformation and disinformation, around the

war and the campaign. access to information being limited, those things causing return. we are seeing a little bit of activity targeting ukrainian infrastructure but not as much as anyone predicted before when we started, but we are definitely seeing some activity. emily: department of homeland security had this to say, and i know you work there under president obama, so i wanted you to take a quick listen. >> five years ago the biggest threat to the company was isis inspiring massive acts of violence and that's no longer the case. the biggest threat from homeland security and national security standpoint is cyber actors attacking us. that's 24/7. emily: would you agree with that assessment? >> it's definitely one of the

greatest. it has risen in public consciousness. we have seen attacks like solarwinds and colonial pipeline . the pervasiveness in the public consciousness, that's a helpful thing as we move forward but we are definitely seeing an increased focus on that medium. emily: our businesses prepared? >> they are working on it. depends on the size of the organization in their investment in security, but there has been a really strong effort through the u.s. government to collaborate with private sector in that public-private collaboration has facilitated a lot of investment at dhs, as mentioned by the congressman and that provides a lot of support for organizations throughout the private sector. emily: this number to me is still so striking. 6000 open cybersecurity jobs. is that part of the reason we

might be seeing uptick in attack? >> i wouldn't say that that is the reason but we definitely need more people to combat the threat. smart people with a number of different backgrounds. i'm glad you brought up that statistic. people think they need to be an engineer or very technical, but there are a number of jobs that require folks with a variety of backgrounds, from legal backgrounds to training and marketing. emily: all right, camille, thank you for giving us your view on the cyber landscape. from crypto to twitter, we will hear from ken griffin at the citadel. and what is old is new again. new media is struggling after looking almost invincible through the pandemic. what roles streaming and media companies will plan the future. we will talk about that, next on

bloomberg. ♪

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♪ emily: welcome back to "bloomberg technology" the milken institute global conference is underway and erik schatzker caught up with citadels ceo can griffith -- ken griffin to talk on everything from inflation to the war in ukraine. part of that conversation right now. take a listen. >> it's pretty simple. all of my colleagues who are younger than i am probably think i am a dinosaur on this issue. they're big believers. they believe that cryptocurrency

has an important role in the global economy as a means of facilitating payment in a web f ree world. i have to give that due consideration, these are really sharp people. i have to live with the reality that -- what they perceive it to be worth. i may be skeptical on cryptocurrency, what is the value of bitcoin? i also collect abstract art. why is a painting were $10 million? so, a value is in the eyes of the beholder and the eyes of the market. one of the things we do at citadel securities as we help people create portfolios they think create the greatest value for them. as such, given the institutional increase an interesting -- and interest in cryptocurrency, it is reasonable to see us be more involved in the crypto space -- and potentially retail investors. >> how soon? is it difficult to build a market-making business and

crypto from scratch? >> it is difficult to build to the level of rigor we would want to build two. things like ensuring we are not a party to a transaction with north korea are really important to us. it may not be to our competitors, but i am not going to help fund the north koreans with their various ventures by mistakenly buying their cryptocurrency. we're going to run our business to i believe a very high standard of kyc and aml in interest of making sure that we're in the market as a constructive purchaser and really bring the best practices that we see in north america inton the market. >> would you describe the business, the one you envision as a market-making business akin to what you do in equities or more of an exchange? >> i would say it is probably a combination of the two is what we will end up in. obviously, we as a market maker commit our capital's principal

and we believe that exchange technology is very important, helping to bring buyers and sellers together. >> do you feel any sense of regret from not diving in any sooner? because as you know, there are examples of funds, i'll mention finance because it is the biggest, that have become among, in revenue terms, and valuation terms, among the biggest in the world. >> well, i'm going to answer this in a way that is personal to me. look, i wished i owned a whole lot of amazon 15 or 20 years ago and owned a lot of apple and kept it for 20 years. i see one difference between those investments and having built a cryptocurrency from that time is i've actually feel that -- what amazon has done for the u.s. consumer. i feel proud of what apple has

done for the u.s. consumer. i was checking my iphone. it is clearly changed our lives. amazon has change the ability for somebody to purchase goods o r a small retailer to offer their products on a vast virtual marketplace. these are businesses that clearly changed the world for the better. i'm still looking for that story of how crypto has made the world so much better. i'll give you the story about how bitcoin consumes as much power as a small country. in a world that is fixated on the carbon footprint it is in remarkable that we apply the influence of a a c02 footprint of a small to midsize country. >> a couple quick questions on politics. you are among the most significant funders of political campaigns in this election cycle. one important thing has just

changed, or is about to change. elon musk is going to own twitter. how is that going to change this election cycle and those that follow? >> i think the most important part of elon musk owning twitter is about free speech. hands down. the most important part. the social media networks are so focused on curating what all of us see and read every day, they really eroded free speech as you and i knew growing up. i know elon is deeply committed to the idea of freedom of expression. free speech does not necessarily mean good ideas to be clear. but to have a robust debate around ideas is how we come to recent conclusions and showing both sides of the story is important. hunter biden laptop disappearing into the abyss of a cover-up of

a large social media companies -- made the news franchise as a really terrifying story. with that change the election? probably not, but should american voters be entitled to know about this information? absolutely. if we want our democracy to work, we need people who have the time and the ability to access the relevant information on candidates. it may not change your view on a candidate but you should have the ability to make an informed and recent decision -- and reason to decision. emily: ken griffin at the milken institute. bloomberg will bring your more coverage from the conference throughout the suite. and speaking of these companies, they are now struggling over concerns of what role online media will play in the future. tech companies lost $2 trillion in market value during april alone. why not and how long will it last? i'm joined by rich greenfield to get his perspective. when you look at media

companies, in particular netflix, spotify, meta, all down more than 50% so far this year. how long is this keep up? rich: this is pretty ugly. i think part of the challenge is we're in sort of uncharted territory. we don't, we know what a recession looks like. we know what global or geopolitical unrest looks li ke in eastern europe and russia. what we don't know if the unlock effect of the pandemic. and what i mean by that is, has consumer behavior really fundamentally changed? you're looking at sort of a surge vacation travel. people want to be out of their houses. try to book a trip to disney world. it is complete and utter insanity trying to get into disney world, even without european travel. what's really happening to

streaming? has there been a fundamental change in the future of streaming television or the shift from a linear to streaming television, or do we just shoot two years too fast and it is going to take time for consumers to catch up now and for the business and valuations to catch up? that is what we are struggling with. what everyone investorwise is struggling with. we used to talk about there being maybe one billion homes that do streaming television. whether you're talking about netflix or disney, that was the total addressable market that everyone is excited about it has it changed, is at much lower now? is it time to get their longing, or pricing has to be lower to get there? those of the things everyone is grappling with. i do not think we have fundamentally changed but i do think the combination of pandemic unlock, geopolitical, inflation, maybe recession in europe, maybe fears of recession in the u.s., all of that, look at the price of eggs.

there are a lot of things going on right now. and nobody, there is nobody right now that understands what the other side of a two year pandemic looks like because we have never lived through this and the markets we have today with that effect. this is just new and virgin territory and is making it very hard not just for us, these companies can't predict their businesses. emily: so, you recently said advertising -- the cable bundle is falling apart. streaming has slowed. is there a good media business to be in right now? rich: well, the obvious one, right, there's two businesses that are big beneficiaries right now. one is my partner brandon ross covers the entire live -- live nation is on fire. it is just insane how good that business is. tickets go on sale and are sold out two seconds later.

live entertainment is clearly a beneficiary and you see that across that category. the other one you're showing netflix on the screen in terms of sort of what content is available, the business that's benefiting from the explosion of streaming services is content creation. if you are in the business of making content, that business has got far far better because there's incredible demand from all of these services. so, production studios have been big beneficiaries. the problem is, there is not a lot of sure play production studios to actually invest in. sony is not a streamer. they have a lot of other businesses but sony's production business has been incredible in terms of what they have created over the course of the past year. the problem is there is just not a lot of ways to play that. in live entertainment, you can own live nation. emily: what you expect to see when we see disney's result? you mentioned that theme parks

are bombing. if you are disney and you have a streaming arm and a themepark arm, are you well insulated or not? rich: you would've thought they would've been well insulated. stock peaked at 190 and is sitting at 112-ish. i don't know where it closed today. it has been beat up. disney has been trading down every single day and i think part of it is really two fold. one i think local economics. fear of not so much how good the theme parks are right now but what happens if we go into more of a global recession is certainly a fear. the other piece of it, right, is the hope the reason to own disney. for multiple years the reason to own disney was, ehy, this is a company with a netflix inside, they are the only company coming out of the fox acquisition, this is the only company that can really rival netflix and create netflix. well, the problem is as you showed on the screen, netflix's

valuation has been eviscerated. so, what is the implied value of this netflix inside of disney? it is far less. look, emily, the other piece of this is that both netflix and disney in that last three months have come out and told her in order to grow our businesses we now think we have to incorporate advertising. disney was on record saying just a year ago, we don't want to put advertising and disney plus. now they are going to start doing it later this year. netflix had been pretty much relation was never going to do advertising and now all of a sudden they are talking about how in the next couple years they are open to incorporating advertising and think you could be additive. so, do you believe that advertising in this content is hopeful? it is sort of a red flag and investors of why are all of these companies all of a sudden who did not feel like they needed advertising, whose prices

are so much cheaper than cable, why all of a sudden are they resorting to read advertising? i don't hear a whole lot of consumers saying that i know that -- god, i really would like advertising inside of my media content. emily: here's something that consumers, most of them do one, and that is fourth. and disney has espn. with apple and amazon betting on sports. could sports be the answer? i've only got 30 seconds left. rich: sports can be an answer as an add-on. sports as a dedicated streaming service is very hard to make the math work. amazon made the most robust move with football. stay tuned. amazon needs to show they can generate a massive audience for r thursday night football. with the billion dollars they spend, it would look like a bad investment for streaming. this is the biggest investment ever made in streaming sports. let's revisit this when we sweep the numbers look like in terms of viewership -- come the

fall. emily: thanks for being here. he says he is stepping down as interim ceo of twitter. it's a joke but twitter does not think it is too funny. more next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: time for our crypto report. we want to take another look at twitter from us let a different angle. last week the crypto executive tweeted to the masses that he had the name twitter interim ceo. that was maybe just a joke.

shortly after, his account was suspended in less than 24 hours later, twitter reversed that suspension. he's back now talking more about his faux appointment and founder and ceo of the open source market -- with me now. ok, so, what exactly happened there? you tweet that you are the interim ceo. your quickly banned and then reinstated 24 hours later. >> yeah, i mean, it happened quite quickly. so, essentially i made a tweet that is supposed to be a joke about potentially becoming an interim ceo of twitter. followed by the news about the elon musk acquiring twitter and making a private. i'm known in the social space for building -- social media protocols. and, essentially, i continued toj joke -- about laying down a

road map for 90 days, -- that twitter has been working for four quite a while. and also making twitter more open, opening up the algorithms and making them open-source. and even creating a more decent price twitter as well. then what happened is that i got suspended. and at some point, there was this kind of like #freesonny movement and it started to pickup in the community and i was able to get back in. i alerted my followers and couldn't access my dm. emily: twitter has not responded to this situation directly but it seems like they took your tweet seriously and then decided maybe they should not have taken it so seriously but it does raise the debate about what is real and what is fake and free in the world of

speech. what do you think the learning is here? stani: yeah, the timing is quite interesting regarding the freedom of speech, especially because twitter itself and many of its bigger social media platforms say they kind of are this, this digital -- where everyone can comment and talk about and you have your audiences, and essentially, in my case, when i got banned, twitter was my only public facing platform, where i had my followers and my audience in my communications with my audience. and i thikn the challenging part here is that when you have a platform that is not open, it is very hard to create competition in terms of the algorithms that are used showing the content or even understanding the

reasons behind the different kinds of suspensions and bans. and i think, like, from the three crypto perspective is -- is fascinating is there is a movement about -- many important parts of the infrastructure and that might be financially infrastructure that has been happening with find it -- digital finance but now also with social media because social media as an infrastructure is very valuable and maybe there is kind of like a thinking behind of it that it is so valuable that it should not be completely owned by the few or let's say even be privatized but actually everything should be open and anyone can customize and build algorithms and let the users choose which of these algorithms are most favorable to them. emily: but you know, one of our opinion columnists made the point today that open sourcing the algorithms would open up average users to a lot more

unwanted content. is open sourcing the algorithm, as elon musk seems to want to do, really the right move? stani: i think it is all about giving choices to the user. for example, what we are doing at lance protocol, we are simply trading -- social -- where you can create a profile and then you have your father will relationship unchanged -- your follower relationship unchanged. if you get banned from one application and you can go to another application and log in with another account and you can have your followers. recently bloomberg reported that facebook discontinued the podcasting services in their platform, meaning that all of these podcasters have been building their audience on facebook, they pretty much lost the audience and the hardware, what was put into those relationships. by opening up the social graphs,

any application developer, entrepreneur who figures out interacting a new way with the content, the berries -- the barr iers, creates more usability that way. users can then choose what they want to use. emily: quick pitch, 30 seconds. what do you think is better about the lens protocol and the web 3 alternative than twitter? >> lance protocol is about giving opportunities for anyone to build new ways to draft content. for the users to -- create profiles once and have their follower relationships on the blockchain and essentially no any single platform can take that away from you. so, what it means that first time ever all the platforms like twitter and facebook, they actually need to compete on the algorithms they are providing you and you as a user, you are not locked into the platform

itself and this is like a new dynamic. emily: all right. aave founder and ceo. not the interim ceo of t witter. to be clear. we will have a lot more on e-tech next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: the european union has had apple with a formal antitrust suit over iphone payments. alleging that apple abuses its dominance via its apple pay service. apple says his contactless pay system helps consumers. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we are back tuesday with more earnings including airbnb and lyft. don't forget to check out our new podcast and find it wherever you get your podcasts.

i'm emily chang. in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪

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>> good morning. welcome to dayb australia. -- welcome to daybreak australia. >> good evening. i'm shery ahn. we're counting down to asia's major market open. haidi: dubais -- did buyers boost ahead of