>> from the heart of where innovation, money and power collide. in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with emily chang.

emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco and this is bloomberg technology. u.s. stocks oscillating as investors walked to position after the latest comments from fed chair jay powell saying a recession could lie ahead. we will speak with shopper five president about how it's impacting consumers at where the company is placing its bets when it comes to the future of e-commerce. plus, slack unveils a slew of new features to the hybrid work world. they have been building company since before the.com boom. we will also get his view on the market lockdown. and jeffrey katzenberg them joins to talk about the future of entertainment and disrupting the legacy industries. plus, we will get his thoughts

on what's happening at netflix and disney. all of that in a moment, but first let's look at the markets with ed ludlow. everyone listening to those comments from fed chair jay powell. >> all eyes on the fed. we are down by less than 2/10 of a percent on the s&p 500 and nasdaq 100. nothing changed in terms of wet fed powell said on the outlook. it's whether they can deliver a so-called soft landing. in other words, fight inflation without causing recession. it would be challenging. tech heavy nasdaq 100 down by to tempt of a percent, snapping two-day rally, a short-lived rally, yields coming down by 12 basis points from the 10-year and bitcoin below $20,000, caught up in the move of s&p's and the risk off environment. you know how i like to do it, let's take a step back and look at the last few days of trading and look at this in the context of what we have seen in markets. in the nasdaq 100 when you seek

about all of the news of the last seven days. we started with the fed meeting one week ago where we got a clear picture of the outlook for rates. we will be at 3.25% on interest rates. we are trading sideways. today, the markets not making its mind. has anything changed? was anything that new and wet fed powell said throughout the session? what i'm hearing in the markets is that really, no. we swung between gains. you saw big tech up highly. there was interesting movers that we could talk about it. the one thing i would say is we are thinking clearly about recession risks. the conversation is, not necessarily if there is a recession, it's about when there is a recession. emily: obviously there's a lot of big tech moves that are driving the moves, thinking about amazon. ed: partly what we are looking at is all of these stocks are trying to take trading in lockstep. tesla down for 10th of 1%.

at one point it was one of the biggest pushing the index higher. netflix up 4.7%. there was news when it came to netflix. the wall street journal reporting they are considering a tier of subscription that is ad supported. we know that is something they discussed at their most recent earnings as an idea, but according to this report, they are talking to partners on partnerships on ads. down very quick according to a dow jones report that regulators considering pulling the june -- pulling the juul product in which altria has a state from the u.s. market. how long has it been since we have discussed juul? it went from the impact on children, flavored products, now reports of it being pulled from the u.s. market and that having a material impact on altria shares this wednesday. emily: thank you for the roundup. retail and e-commerce companies have been under pressure in the midst of rising inflation and market turmoil but shopify shares take a leg up today after announcements targeted at the changing nature of consumers.

i want to talk about all of this and more with the president of shopify. harley, we've got a lot of news to get to and a lot of announcements you may. but first i want to get your sense on what's happening. shopper via hasn't necessarily been spared period what's your feeling on how bad it would get in if a recession is inevitable? harley: always a pleasure to be on your show. two things, let's start with consumer sentiment. there's certainly some retail rebalance happening in areas like in person retail and we are well-positioned there. i mentioned on the earnings call that we saw physical retail up by nearly 80% year on year, and then when we add things like -- one of the announcements today was local inventory on google and tap to pay, we are well-positioned to ensure that if physical retail is rebalancing and reopening, then merchants can see that as well. one of the things from a macro perspective, consumers are still

voting with their dollars to support independent brands. this is something we saw happen quickly and intensely during the pandemic. they are looking for quality products and a lot of the shop by merch are doing well. in terms of the economy in general, it's clear that inflation is at a record level. but to the degree that merchants wallets are stretched from higher prices. what they are beginning to do is get more value out of every dollar. what we are seeing is that more merchants are coming onto shopify and taking more of our products whether it is capital or payments or fulfillment, they are leveraging our economy to scale while keeping an independent business. we think both those things lead to a lot of optimism on our side, and of course, shopify launched today. emily: you are making this shift to direct to consumer to connect to consumer. what does that mean and why do you think that is the future? harley: this idea, which we announce this morning at 9:30

a.m., it introduces the connect to consumer era of commerce and part of it is the speed of innovation and the breath of what shopper fight is building -- i celebrated my 12 year anniversary last week at shopify, a third of my life. emily: congratulations. harley: thank you. the amount of product we are shipping is stronger than ever before. we unveiled more than 100 new product updates and launches today and we are moving faster than ever and shopify additions is our way of sharing that momentum. i have been on the show talking about direct to consumer which was about this one-to-one connection. but it was transactional. what we are noticing is that more and more, consumers want to connect with these brands online on social media, they want to attend an event or their store, they want to have an emotional connection where they can connect with brands across different areas. commerce is not just about the transaction, it's much deeper. we think c2c places more loyalty and trust at the heart of every

merchant interaction so a lot a products you saw today as about us ushering in this new model for commerce. emily: you are striking a new partnership with twitter to help businesses reach buyers. i wonder now when twitter is facing uncertainty about whether elon musk buys the company or not and if this partnership will hold up in a new regime. harley: we think the future of retail is going to be retail everywhere, online and off-line, social media, in person, at farmers markets, at events and concerts. i think we started as being an e-commerce company and 10% of all e-commerce in the u.s. flows through shopify. we were one single aggregated store we would be the second-largest online store in america. but the key here is that commerce in the future will happen everywhere. we announced on the show and talked about our integrations with google and facebook and instagram and tiktok to embed commerce there and the newest one we are embedding the newest , partner is twitter.

they are in the news a lot lately, but if you think about where commerce used to happen, it was around the town square. where the bakers sold bread and they sold shoes. twitter is the modern-day digital town square. so, embedding commerce into twitter so you can turn conversation into commerce powered by shopify we think is a great thing and whether or not they have a new owner in the future or not, i think commerce will play a role in twitter's future. emily: i recently interviewed amazon ceo, andy jassy, and i'm not sure if you caught this but what i asked about amazon's relationship with third-party sellers and the tension that existed between amazon and some third-party sellers, he took a dig at shopify. take a listen to what he had to say. andy sellers don't really long : for e-commerce software. that exists in lots of places and is not very expensive. what they love about selling on amazon is they get access to our hundreds of millions of customers and that changes what their prospects can be in terms

of the businesses they are building. emily: what is your response? harley: i think it is quite clear that the future of retail is going to have direct connection between brands and the consumers. obviously, a place like amazon allows third-party sellers to access a large network of consumers but if you look at these marketplaces, you are not building your own business, you are effectively renting customers from the marketplace. for some merchants, that matters. but for a lot of merchants, think about your favorite brands or mine the shoes i'm wearing, , they want to have a direct relationship with the people buying their products and more and more, you see consumers choosing to go direct whenever possible. there's a place for marketplaces and obviously amazon has done a great thing there and is valuable in that way, but i think consumers want to have a direct relationship with the brands they are buying from, that's the reason you see

companies like mattel and crayola and procter & gamble use shopify to go direct to consumer, these are brands that traditionally never did so and now they are doing that. emily: now, harley, shopify shares have taken a dive since november where they hit a high point and we are in the middle of broader market turmoil but how concerned are you about this and going forward? how are you thinking about this? what are investors missing? harley: i think shopify was a pandemic story and the stock reflected that. what a lot of people are missing is the shopify story, on one hand, we are 10% of all e-commerce in the u.s., at the same time 2 million stores on shopify have an independent business. every 30 seconds or so, a new entrepreneur work at the first sale on shopify. we are not only getting a larger piece of the pie, we are growing the pie itself and those businesses that end up being successful will stay on shopify

indefinitely, and that's lazy companies go public, these amazing brands that were built at their mom's kitchen table that are now category leaders built on shopify. emily: i want to ask about -- go ahead. finisher point. harley: i was -- finish your point. harley: i was going to say, i think we were a pandemic story. what people miss, we are also this re-opening story. 80% -- we had 80% growth in point-of-sale, we have thousands of stores that use shopify to power their physical store. we saw social embedded commerce on instagram and tiktok and no twitter grow almost 400% year on year last quarter. shopify is more than an e-commerce provider or a pandemic story. we are the world's retail operating system. look at your favorite brands, for anyone listening, look at your favorite brands, you will start seeing shop pay, you will see shopify power those brands. that's really important to us, that's why i think our future is

very bright. emily: i want to ask about your evolving governance story. shopify made changes to enhance the ceos power. some shareholders did oppose these changes. what are you hearing from shareholders in terms of concerns about this change and what has been shopify's response? harley: i spent the last few weeks with our largest investors and a lot of investors generally. we are grateful for their trust. the goal was modernizing our governance structure. we want to be a100 your company. we have 84 years to go. we want to run our business and make good long-term decisions for investors, merchants, every stakeholder involved with shopify and we think this modernization around the governance structure allows us to do that. i will also tell you that some investors that have been with us the last seven years since the ipo in 2015, they believe in shopify more than ever before. we have a lot of room to grow

and we have a lot new opportunities. emily: always appreciate you joining us. thank you for taking a wide range of questions today. appreciate it. coming up, slack's annual conference underway, they are introducing a slew of upgrades. i'm going to speak with stewart butterfield next about how this will impact the evolving future of work, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: happening in new york, slack frontiers, the annual conference where they have

unveiled the latest innovation to a product that has become integral to the hybrid workplace. joining us now is stewart butterfield, joining us from new york. great to have you back with us. among the announcements today, you are building out slack huddles, adding this video feature. i'm curious of videoconferencing, a crowded market, what's the unique niche you are hoping to fill? stewart: thank you. it is a little different than a video call. huddle, is for those who are not familiar, used by tens of millions of people a week on slack and up until now, they have an audio only and the intention is a little different than a call that has a scheduled start and end time. they are for more spontaneous conversations. they have invaluable and that respect, fastest-growing feature on slack's history. adding more of a co-working space and there is a difference between on the one hand meetings and the other hand people working together and happening to use computers at the same time.

we are on the far left edge of that spectrum. i, like the people in the audience, will be on many more video calls years from now but there's also a set of tools that became obvious that they are desirable during the pandemic but we are just starting to see some of them now. some will come from slack, some will come from others. it is an exciting time, so far as enterprise software can be exciting. emily: there is competition from zoom and microsoft teams and cisco webex and in the same way you are moving onto zoom's turf, you have zoom announcing chat features. are you concerned about them taking slack market share? stewart: not at all. we at slack are a happy zoom customer and i do not expect that to go anywhere. they are just in the lot of use cases that are not covered by the 30 minute video call. there's also a judgment of zoom

does that i don't think slack will do and vice versa. we are at this moment where it feels like -- i am as optimistic as i ever have been. i feel like there's an opportunity to create new categories in the same way that everyone has the standard set of email and calendar and word processor and spreadsheet. there's a couple more slots that the pandemic made clear were important so we are excited to spend time experimenting and releasing new stuff. emily: you don't have to worry about this as much as slack is part of salesforce and i wonder if there is relief that you don't have to worry about the market meltdown, but you have been in markets for 20 years. what is your take on what is happening with the economy now? elon musk has a super bad feeling about it.

global news, 24 hours a day, on air and on bloomberg quicktake, powered by 2700 journalists and analysts in more than 120 countries. how does stewart butterfield feel? stewart: i'm getting pretty old at this point, i graduated from high school in 1991. i worked through the dot com crash. 2008 as well and other little or ones -- littler ones. i do not want to suggest that there is no immediate negative impact for a lot of people in the short-term, but at the market level, i see this working itself out over maybe six months if we are lucky, maybe 18 months if it is more realistic. but we do come out of the other side and so many great companies including slack were started -- we started slack in 2009 in the bottom part of the trough. i think there's more opportunity now. emily: how do you think silicon valley looks different after this if it is not a major dislocation, is it an evolution?

stewart: if we are talking about stock prices, multiples have come down to a realistic level. we will see if people can deliver the earnings that are expected, we will stay in the same box for a while. the bigger question is whether a recession will impact us. something else is going on at the same time which is we have realized the importance of the digital infrastructure that supports collaboration and to make that a little more tangible for people. if you go back to march of 2020 and imagine a parallel universe where you can keep traveling for work and go to the office, all that stuff, but took over the software, all of these companies would have disintegrated. at some point in the last 20 years, we switched from a world where physical is more important than digital to the other way around. all of these companies continue to exist and what happens, there's more interest in investment.

the worst-case scenario is a chief authorization -- chief information officer who you are just try to get it as cheap as possible as opposed to an investment in the organization's effectiveness. emily: slack is becoming more integral to all kinds of workforces and has been in the news because the january 6 committee asked twitter for slack messages tied to their decision to ban former president trump, etc. i'm curious for your thoughts on this, if slack has been subpoenaed. i know twitter has refused to hand this information over. and if you are subpoenaed, would slack comply? stuart: i have to be -- stewart: i have no idea if we have been subpoenaed. i don't think so. we have a range of customers. an opportunity to mention that we have announced a version of slack used by lockheed martin in the u.s. army software factory.

there are a lot of complaints requirements -- compliance requirements. emily: you're trying to attract more government agencies. how do i intend -- how do you intend to do that? stewart: we have government customers in 20 countries and some of those have been long-established. i think there's 13 u.s. federal agencies using slack but also state, local, me discipline usage. there's usage in australia and the u.k., japan, france, germany. the benefit slack brings to any organization that uses it are there for the government as well. there might be an opportunity to create more of a fabric that goes through the federal

government because those agencies are pretty autonomous and it is harder to get them to coordinate than it should be. emily: all right, stewart butterfield, always good to have you. appreciate you stopping by. coming up, revelations from elon musk that could explain why she decided to lay off 10% of tesla's workforce. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: elon musk says tesla's new plant in germany and texas are losing billions of dollars as they try to ramp up production. in a video posted online that was taped three weeks ago, his comments offer new insight into the days leading up to his decision to cut costs by laying off employees.

the staff reductions will affect 10% of tesla's salaried workforce over the next three months. coming up, we are going to head to toronto for a conversation with jeffrey katzenberg fresh off a panel at the conference about disrupting legacy industry, something he knows about. plus, we will get his thoughts on the current economic climate and where he is putting his money these days and a company he is invested in. that is coming up next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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emily: welcome back to bloomberg technology, i'm emily chang in

san francisco. it was a choppy day for tech stocks as the market tried to make up its mind on the fed and risk of recession. where did we land? bloomberg's ed ludlow back to unwind it all. ed: we were modestly lower across multiple indices, especially tech indices. look at the nasdaq 100, off by 0.2%. chip stocks, some of the worst performers. checksum both the s&p 500 and the nasdaq 100. you also see the index, it should meet up with the mega caps in the u.s. nifty shares of chinese tech companies, modestly lower. they have been higher during the session. the market china make up its mind about the fed's ability to fight inflation without causing recession. don't take my word for it, have a listen to fed chair jay powell. jerome: it is our goal, it is going to be challenging, it has been made more challenging by the events of the last few months, thinking of the war and commodities prices and problems with supply chains, and the

question whether we are able to accomplish that is going to depend to some extent on factors that we don't control. ed: the market sees the idea that this is the biggest admission so far that there's a real risk of hard landing. the labor market still incredibly tight. the economy still incredibly robust. some of the tech movers, interesting. amazon up a quarter of a percent. a leaked memo where amazon is talking about the turnover in its workforce being high relative to other industries, being a concern. what happens to that labor market as we moved to the fed fighting inflation, not just with interest rates, but the sinking of a. the other name that catches my eye with regard to the demand story, the demand is still there. netflix up 7%. according to reports, netflix considering an ad tier, ad support in conjunction with google and comcast.

you have interesting guests coming up. i would be interested on the take about netflix. having a great day on wednesday. emily: thank you. despite fears that the u.s. is heading toward ava session -- toward a rest session, there was an upbeat tone at this year's collision conference. 35,000 people showed up to hear about the future of technology. joining me now, jeffrey katzenberg, former chair of disney. also the founder and ceo of aura, an online cybersecurity firm. thank you both for joining us. i know you have been on stage talking about disrupting legacy industries. this is something you know a thing or two about. tapping here as an investor first, given everything to have seen, everything you have tried

to do, what industries do you see now that are most ripe for disruption? hari: whether it is -- jeffrey: whether it is ripe for disruption or not, the place of opportunity that we are focused on continues to be on cybersecurity, both for enterprise and the consumer. i think it will face less headwinds and a down recession economy than many industry. also think the future of work continues to be a place of great opportunity, the disruption out of covid has been extreme in terms of the workforce, and the tools it needs today in terms of productivity, collaborating, sharing, the moving of information and people is going to be a place of tremendous innovation over these next

couple years. there are bright spots but we are in for choppy times. emily: hari, there's a huge number of cybersecurity unicorns out there, especially companies with valuations when times were good. how do you think aura stands out on that list? hari: this is my second go around building a business. the first time, we went through the downside in 2000, 2001 and again in 2008 and we learned a lot of lessons. this time, we are focused on keeping the cost of our business low, looking for opportunities where there's availability, whether it is m&a, organic, etc. keeping the core of our business tight and making sure that we are mindful of costs and having raised a lot of capital, we are

set up -- well set up. we have to make sure we are creating a lot of runway and keep focusing on our product. jeffrey: aura is a mature company. as 200 million customers. it is a profitable business. and a fair amount of wind in its sales in terms of its growth. it is profitable growth. that makes it in a unique category right now. emily: given that you have seen a number of downturns, how pronounced do you think this one in particular is going to be if it is a recession with a big r or a little r, is it inevitable? jeffrey: you just went way above my pay grade. i have to say, and this is what i admire about hari and how he

is running his business, you plan for the worst and hope for the best. he has putting down his business, he is running it on a smart basis, a profitable basis. this is also a time of great opportunity. there are going to be things for us to do whether it is in m&a, direct to consumer, the ad market is probably going to become more favorable. you have to play offense and defense at the same time. you need an offense of team at a defensive team and that is what hair -- hair as -- hari has built well. emily: speaking of offense and defense, the promise of cybersecurity is the ability to play really good defense, and we been warned so may times about the threat from russia in the midst of its ongoing war in

ukraine, how big are the threats on the cyber landscape and how do you see that threat evolving as we go through that potential economic crisis for 16, 18 months or longer? hari: i think it started with covid as people removing were online, more data started moving online as well. whether you are looking at nationstate the nationstate attacks or attacks on enterprises, the thing we see is some of those were prevalent, they are getting more sophisticated, but the new thing we are senators he is an acceleration in the participation of attacks on families and consumers. going from nation to nation to enterprise and consumers and families. i think that over the next 12 to 18 months, the trend does not seem to be slowing down. there is a new variant of a different kind of attack

happening every week. criminals seem to be enjoying their work. jeffrey: emily, and interesting statistic is, in the last 12 months, the amount of thefts, digital thefts, versus burglary has actually surpassed it. there's actually more criminal activity against all of us as consumers on our digital footprint than in our homes and apartments and around our physical goods and that trend is accelerating. that value right now in terms of what aura is solving for is strong at all be going to get stronger. emily: i have to ask, given what we saw with quibi and your history in the entertainment business, what is your thought on the collapse of netflix stock? jeffrey: can i congratulate you -- it took you 8.5 minutes to

say the word quibi out loud. you got the over, not the under. go for it. emily: it is not the only thing you are going to be remembered for. if i have anything to say about it. i do want to know what you are thinking about what is happening in streaming, the collapse of netflix's stock. have we hit a peak, and is it all downhill from here? jeffrey: no. here's what i would say. surely one of the great entrepreneurs of our time is reed hastings. everybody were naysayers a decade ago when he came along with this idea of streaming. they were naysayers when he came along with this idea for binging of content. there's so many things that popular opinion were contrary to him and his vision for that company. he built a great company, there's no question that it is in a rough patch for sure, but the last thing i would do today is bet on reed hastings being

down and out. do i think -- what is the future of streaming? the future of streaming is going to be strong, likely more consolidation. so there's more competition today, there's more offerings today, more than all of us can consume. there are going to be winners and losers. i think netflix is going to be in the winter column. is it going to see $700 a share soon? probably not. emily: i wonder if you think disney and sco are in the winter column. there's a long history there. we have seen some tumult in the executive suite. what does succession look like there and how does disney fit into this future of the

entertainment business? jeffrey: 100% disney will be in that win column. if you had to pick today, apple, amazon, netflix, disney, warner discovery, they are going to in some fashion, shape, or form be in the win column. once again jacek has a , complicated hand to play, probably no company had more of its businesses adversely affected by covid. broadway shut down, theater shutdown, theme parks shutdown, cruise ships shutdown. do i have to keep going? he is trying to navigate the next renaissance of disney. it is a big challenge. my guess is he is up to it. emily: i appreciate you putting on your entertainment legend had as well as your investor hat. jeffrey, hari coming to us from the collision conference in

toronto. thank you both. coming up bitcoin dropping back to 20,000. how long can be expect the winter to last? why are some still so optimistic? we will discuss and we will hear from the labor group that helped orchestrate the first successful unionization campaign at an apple store. why the international association of machinists and aerospace workers says it is eager to sit down at a negotiating table. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: time for our crypto report, bitcoin trading around the $20,000 level, moving in tandem with falling stocks as concerns about a global recession grow. while some companies are laying people off, others are more optimistic about the near future. i'm going to talk about this and more with hannah miller. falconer's raising a big brown today. how? >> it is an exciting company valued at $8 billion. this is a company that has a lot of interesting stuff about it. its founder has an impressive background, formally at google. is funding round came together in the past few weeks, even as market conditions were changing. it is exciting, especially when you see other companies looking to raise that evaluation. emily: $20,000 for bitcoin but the ceo of finance has the worst

part is probably over. is he right? >> i think he is being a bit optimistic. there's still a lot of fragility in the market. we could see trouble for other lending platforms. we have seen babel hit. there's a lot of uncertainty revolving around regulation and security, hacks and scams have been a problem for the crypto industry. emily: we have seen layoffs at coinbase, layoffs at robin hood. when you are talking to your sources, how bad is it or how bad does it feel on the inside of some of these organizations? hannah: i have been told by multiple people to expect more layoffs. that this is going to be a trend after a rash of over hiring past year. people believe this crypto winter is going to last for another six months to a year but

it will be shorter than the previous one because we have queries, decentralized finance and nft use, people stay interested in crypto and blockchain. emily: hannah will continue to follow your reporting on all of this. coming up, apple's first union and what it means for a potential wave of tech unions. talk about that, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: big tech has been hostile to organize labor but as of late, there have been some serious moves to change that. this pence -- this past weekend employees at a maryland apple store voted 65-33 to unionize, the move creates the first union of apple retail employees in the united states and running the campaign was the international

association of machinists. the general vice president joins us now to talk about this big win. we have seen at some -- we have seen votes at amazon warehouses have been closer. why do you think apple employees here voted almost two to one? >> we were pleased with the outcome of this. the workers in maryland were very excited. they were very involved in this whole process. they came to us because of our presence in the community and we spent a lot of time with them over a long period of time talking about who we are, but we do, and they were very excited about having the opportunity to organize and have a say in their future. emily: apple has not responded to this union vote directly but in the past, as news about the forming of a possible union, they touted what the workers are

paid. do you think the vote in maryland will result in more unions being formed at apples across the united states? david: i do, 100%. we have received many phone calls from across the country from coast-to-coast. the outpour has been very good. it is definitely a wave and we are pleased with it. workers had to put a lot on the line in maryland to stand up and have a say in their future and we are hoping other workers in apple see that they were able to do it, they did not buy into some of the antiunion rhetoric. that the machinist union, we do a lot of good things, these are very highly skilled employees and we are very highly skilled union. so, we are very pleased that they were able to hold tight, hold strong, and when they walk out that door you heard screams. that was the sound we want to hear across the entire state, i mean, country. emily: how will apple have to deal with the union? what discussions and agreements

will have to be had? david: typically what we will do is we will try to do a meet and greet. we will send a letter. we are going to be certified hopefully at the end of the week, it is a seven-day process. we should be certified without issues. once we are certified i will send a letter to apple, the ceo, and request to meet with them and then we will start the process to collectively bargain a contract for the employees. emily: what will change for workers at unionized stores? david: everything. their whole world will change. they will have the ability to have a say in their future. they will have a voice on the job. scheduling is a big thing for them. they love their job, they do great stuff, they connect people to these products that we cannot figure them out, we go to the stores, we meet with them, highly technical, highly skilled, they help us get our stuff together. for them, i think because they love their job, they want to have more say in the schedule, anything to do with their future, working conditions,

safety on the job. they will have the ability to do that. emily: we are seeing a similar conversation at amazon and i spoke to amazon ceo andy jassy about union efforts in amazon warehouses. take a listen to what he had to say. andy: we happen to think they are better off without a union for a number of reasons, including the fact that it is much harder when you have a union to have a direct relationship with your manager and to get things done quickly. emily: how would you respond to that? david: i think that is silly. to be honest with you. just to be frank. for us, the union is the people on site, the employees at that store, they are the union. they keep trying to say it is a third-party coming in and they are not going to be personal and have friendships, but absently false. not true. the union is the people on site and the relationships can continue. we have great relationships with

many, many companies that we work with. i would not expect anything different from a ceo of amazon. emily: how long does a union last for? will this have to be renewed, and is this going to be an ongoing fight whether or not it happens beyond? david: there was reason to negotiate a contract, typically a three year contract. but once we are officially certified, we will be the bargaining agent for them and hopefully it goes forever. emily: last quick question, tech has so far been fairly immune to these union negotiations. how did you imagine this could change the tech industry? we've got about 30 seconds left. david: i think it will be a great change. this is the workforce that needs a union. they are not a traditional, what we would call a traditional union. they have been left behind on that and now they are saying they want more, they want to

negotiate over hours of work, working conditions, all the things that a union does. when workers around the country , u.s. and canada, see what we are doing, i think they are going to want to be part of this. i am excited. i don't think it is going to slow down. i think it will keep moving forward. emily: all right, david sullivan, general vice president at international association of machinists and aerospace workers, thank you for joining us. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we are back tomorrow with cloud flare ceo, proton ceo and talking big tech privacy. you don't want to miss it. this is bloomberg. ♪

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