>> from the heart of where innovation money and power collide, from silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with emily chang.

>> i'm caroline hyde in new york, in for emily chang. this is bloomberg technology. airbnb will host tricky legal meant amid state abortion bands. why women hoping to get abortions may not be all that easy. as the biggest names in tech gather at sun valley, we will hear from 23 me about the new study on lung covid and the current state of biotech stocks and doordash and over show that amazon will take a stake in grubhub business. why they might start a favor grub in delivery services. investors kind of inhaled the economic data that hinted at a slightly slower growth. katie joins us now.

the jobs did is looking strong. >> it is a great question. don't have a great answer. there is a lot of intraday volatility. they managed to string together a third straight day of gains. it kind of took off at 2:30 p.m. a half-hour after the somewhat hawkish bid. the broader market here. this closed a bit higher. about .4%. the infotech sector closed .9% higher. that came even as you saw an enormous jump in that two-year treasury yield. up 18 basis points. not today. they took a hit as tesla, starbucks and the like fell. we take a look at bitcoin still sticking around that $20,000 level.

bitcoin tends to move in $10,000 increments. >> many hoping this is back to the 10,000 load. meanwhile, let's talk about the u.s. supreme court ruling and federal protection for abortion. it happened last month already. many people wanted to try to find a way to help. let's talk to us about how the hosts were. >> we are changing some of the listings here. you are welcome to stay at my place for free.

this is at a time when abortion access is being limited and almost half of u.s. states. hosts learned it was not as easy to do as they thought. there are very restrictive laws in states like oklahoma and texas. they will put out bounties on people who aid and abet abortions. this was an issue that came up last year and companies like uber were saying we will defend our drivers if they are implicated in these lawsuits. what we have seen happen is some of these hosts take down these listings and then partner with local nonprofits. >> perhaps be a little less obvious. i am also interested in how you overcame to try to help pay the legal fees of its drivers. >> airbnb has said that if -- they will defend them. they also said if any other states passed laws that are similar to the one in texas,

they will step up to did the same. they have not said anything else besides what has happened. we have not heard about any of their plans for partnerships domestically. >> it has to be said in many ways, the ukrainian refugee crisis is no -- in no way politically divisive. we have to realize this is a very politically charged conversation. not everyone agrees. i am interested in whether we expect the companies to do this. this is something we have seen many businesses say. >> that is correct. airbnb has said we need to go across state lines. at that point, it still remains

to be seen with the company means to do. >> what about solutions that the actual hosts have been coming up with. >> this is somebody who has been able to work with their local nonprofit. another host that i spoke to in new mexico said they had to take on the list and because of a threat they got against their families. they hope they will make this safer.

other companies that you are discussing this with? they will have to be more clearance. >> what i think we will see is these companies will continue to be put under public pressure to it they will do, support employees and host. this is similar to the conversation about who is an employee and a contractor. that is very clear with what you say. he overstepped up to say if you are implicated in any of these lawsuits, we will defend you. we will see if this actually happens. >> thank you. another story we continue to watch is the crypto clashes that have claimed another victim. this of -- the firm sides market volatility. last month, voyager has secured a $485 million credit line from

the crypto mobile. much more ahead, stay with us, this is bloomberg. ♪

>> let's get out alive to sun valley. ed ludlow, he is our very special guest. >> let's go from billionaires and deals to health and data and

bring in the ceo of 23 in may. the weather is beautiful but it has been busy. you have been coming to this conference for a long time but you are very busy generally speaking. 23 and may, you are coming out of the pandemic. the consumer around the world is thinking about health. how does that help you? >> it is interesting. with covid, it is the first time we would publish -- publish articles that would drive sales. covid spread people to be hyper well -- hyper aware of health and what is going on. 23 and me about that people were interested in the research before doing and people were interested in health. >> as we enter this second half of 2022 and many people are double vaccinated, boosted, are they still coming to you? what is the anxiousness about health data? >> i think people come to 23 and me, have of our customers come

for ancestry and another half are very interested in the idea that they are empowered to take care of themselves and empowered with information about prevention and i think people have learned with the pandemic, we think about math and vaccines, all of that ties in with the world of prevention. some of that is type two diabetes. are the things you can do to prevent it? lifestyle, environment, i think it all wraps in. people think about what they can do to be healthier in general. >> run through 23 me and what you offer and how it works. >> 23 me is incredibly simple. you spent in a tube, we collect your dna and we help you interpret your dna. we are different than all the other companies out there. we never said we are just ancestry and health. we want to have this holistic vision that we are about you and understanding your dna and dna is fascinating. he shared with all life around

us. you and i are 99.5% the same. how can we understand that some people are introverts and extroverts. some people are high risk for type two diabetes. how can we understand how the dna influences all that? we turn -- we return your ancestry and result -- you have the results to people and we engage them with their own personal dna. >> how are these people -- where are these kids doing best? where is the most engagement? >> we are focused mostly on the u.s. right now. we sell in 66 countries but we don't sell health everywhere. house is still highly regulated and most of the world. mostly in the u.s. but we see good updates from our customers that are really interested in understanding ancestry and understanding health and what is interesting is there is a real tight and.

most people can relate and say if you are of jewish descent or african descent, you are potentially at higher risk for certain conditions. there is a real tire between the ancestry and what your health predispositions are. >> you made an interesting acquisition, limited, telehealth. there was a huge hot ticket. how is that gone? >> this was very different to what other groups got into telehealth. it is not because we wanted to get into urgent care, strep health and all of the other things but people are comfortable talking to their clinicians online and that shows most clinicians are not trained on genomic medicine meaning that if you go and you get your genetic results for alzheimer's or chronic kidney disease or other conditions, most physicians today trained on what to do with that. 23 and made by acquiring

lemonade now has the opportunity to offer the full stack meaning that i can give you access to a dramatic -- indirect consumer -- a direct to consumer text and i can now provide clinicians who are trained on genetic information and our pharmacy that is trained on how genetics into play with medication so i can offer that full service customers. because there was a successful acquisition. what is missing? are you looking for similar opportunities? >> acquisitions take a lot of time. the first step is the integration but then they'll start to train clinicians. they provide that full package. people don't know what to do with all the genetic information so there is a whole process for us on educating our customers. we are going to give you health care providers. we are going to help you to

understand how you financially translate that into your life and ways we can leverage the service to help encourage behavior change. >> the ceo of a publicly traded company now. health is important for consumers. we are challenging the inflationary environment. we have been having discussions about where the consumer stops spending. do you think the consumer will continue spending on monitoring, metrics? >> i think people are really frustrated with the lack of transparency and health care. i think there is definitely an encouragement. people want to have more control. one thing 23 and me has led on is being a low-cost provider of information and making it really affordable and accessible.

i think more and more there will be a trend where people want to be in control. they want to know what they are paying for. they want to be able to know they are getting a reasonably priced service. i think that 23 and me at our current $200 price is in that range of reasonable for people. >> what is the big picture outlook? >> i focus on beyond. for me i have always been focused on the long-term vision. that is a totally different type of health care system. i have always been focused on a self-pay model. -- on a self-pay, direct to consumer model, because my relationship is with you. how is it that i can win as a company and you can win as an

individual if i can keep you healthier? how do i actually empower you to be healthy? how do i empower you to be as healthy as you possibly can, and not actually get sick to begin with? ed: do you think that 23 and me is seen as a potential partner or a bigger health care system, or a potential acquisition? have you ever thought about doing that? anne: i think now that we have acquired lemonade, and the focus we have on genomic medicine and delivery of medicine, i think 23 and me could play an important role in helping bridge consumers who have their genetic information with the rest of the medical world, and start to bridge that genomic divide, like how people actually understand what is this information. how can we use it in the clinical setting and in a lifestyle setting? ed: it is not just billionaires and deals. it is health and data. back to you in new york. caroline: she might be a billionaire. we will have to check the bloomberg billionaires list. what a wonderful interview.

what a fascinating ceo. we will be back at sun valley on thursday. and the major league soccer commissioner. make sure you tune in. coming up, doordash shares drop after competitor grubhub struck a deal with amazon. grubhub will have easy access to amazon's board consumer base. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

mark: apple's latest chips have shaken up the computer industry, pushing rebels to search for new solutions. in the last year and have, apple has gone to the m2 and i expect

the first m3 chips here. but all of this has taken a toll on apple's other products. two of apple's most popular devices, the iphone and the apple watch, will not be getting their typical big ship upgrade this year. for the first time since apple began driving its -- designing its processors, the base iphones will not get their own chip. only the more expensive iphone 14 will get a faster processor. similarly, for the first time in its history, the apple watch stick to the same processor technology. the series eight will get a chip, and the processor will be on par with the series six. apple has also been facing hurdles with the development of its first cellular modem, with the test version facing overheating issues. i don't expect the apple modem

to arrive until 2024 at the earliest. i believe all of these issues are in part a result of apple's chip department being spread too thin, as well as the new focus on mac. there is also the industrywide chip shortage, which is leading to higher races, as well as rising shipping costs. apple's is also not without blame, due to its somewhat rocky transition to new three millimeter processor technology. this is power on. caroline: thanks to mark gurman, and sign up for the week power on newsletter at bloomberg.com. amazon struck a deal to take up to 50% with grubhub. it will also offer prime users

in the u.s. a one-year subscription to the food delivery service. grubhub is owned by a dutch company. bloomberg intelligence says -- why did amazon want to get into this delivery service? >> the lines are clearly blurring between what amazon is doing for delivery in terms of -- and with these companies are doing with food and grocery delivery. for amazon, it is an easy way for them to partner with grubhub. it is losing share, but it does have a good customer base in cities and urban areas. it is good for them to segment the market. they did a similar partnership with delivery in the u.k., really targeting high-end users that grubhub has. i think that is the play here. over time, they want to bundle everything. they already have music, video. they will add more services and the prime script and become some the customers cannot do without. caroline: why go to the high-end?

deliveroo started with top-end routes and then went lower. is the higher-end buyer more recession proof in america? >> and they have higher repeat business. >> amazon says they wie you a flat fee. it does no matter how many times the order. that could be very disruptive to the business model of uber and doordash. there are variety struggling with profitability. i think there would be a big pressure. >> talk to us about the structure. >> i think amazon in this environment cannot make a big acquisition. they already bought mgm. now i think the regulatory

environment is more challenging. even the delivery partnership went through intense scrutiny. my hunch is although they would have gotten this asset very cheap -- $7.5 billion for grubhub. it will be substantially marked down in this environment. but i think for amazon, the partnership is one way for them to gain access to the grubhub customer base. they can do everything they would have done if they had wired that. caroline: in general, we are going to see more consolidation in the space. i'm thinking about my instacart and how much i assess what gets added on versus walking into a store. are we seeing more consolidation in the space in general to mark mandeep: there will be a lot of pressure. in a slow economic environment where customers are pulling back on spending, there are too many

subscriptions that the customer has. they have to pare back on what is discretionary versus what is not. that will be a catalyst for consolidation. order growth will slow down substantially. there up against covid growth. the comparisons are very tough. that would be a catalyst for instacart and the smaller guys to give up and say we have to partner with walmart or target or one of the big retailers out there. caroline: mandeep singh, bloomberg intelligence, great analysis as always. supply chain production. an ev maker soaring.

caroline: this is bloomberg technology. shares of rivian surging on wednesday, the electric car making -- carmaker still on track to produce 25,000 units this year. ed ludlow, we are never going to

let him relax and sun valley. we are going to keep you on top of all the eeev news. this is a market reaction. why? ed: yeah, because they are making progress. they produced 500 equals approximately in the quarter. they have jumped to 4400 in the second quarter. this is about a production ramp. remember, 2018, micro focus on tesla and the production hell. rivian is showing it is making progress, and the street is looking at that and saying we believe you i know i am in sun valley, but guess who else is in unveiling to mark the rivian ceo -- who else is in sun valley? the rivian ceo. this is a company heading in the right direction in their factory

at least. caroline: you said hello, did he say anything back? ed: he did. he is an interesting guy. sources tell me he is often the smartest person in the room, but comes across as incredibly humble. it is an interesting one. at a tech and media conference, you would not in automotive really fits into that. he is not only automotive executive. mary barra, the gm ceo, is also here. it is a bit of a victory lap. the stock has been under immense pressure since november, but they are still kind of the golden company with serious wall street backing. they are ambitious, and i think that has been part of the street's concern. they talk about being able to ramp production at the illinois facility not just to 25,000 this year, but to 100,000, 150,000 units annually.

the end to break ground on a factory in georgia very soon that could build 400,000 units annually. they are going to start production on that in 2024. they have a lot going and $15 billion on the balance sheet. it is really about the quarter by quarter execution. caroline: he did arrive, the ceo of rivian, right? ed: he has been busy and i did not have a chance to send you a auto a bright green suv, and i promise i will show you pictures of it. caroline: such a beautiful backdrop as well. meanwhile, raising venture capital is not as easy for startups in what is turning out to be a challenging year as a recession potentially looms over the economy.

founders are looking for a smart way to secure money. we're joined by the m 13 managing partner. it is great to have time with you. we are hearing about companies that recently went public. in the private market, how are you seeing valuations, and how are you seeing the willingness of anders who want to raise in this sort of environment? >> a very interesting time for sure in venture capital. i think the problems with everything happening in the public market is really ricocheting back into the private market. at the end of the day, we all invest in these companies

because we want to see them go public, want to see them grow. when there is so much uncertainty in the multiples, it ricochets back from late stage investors who are holding off waiting for the market to settle, back through the earlier stage investors like myself. ultimately, we want to make sure we invest in companies that can get to something. caroline: we all know your investment in daily harvest, headspace, which a lot of people are using. you are no stranger to navigating during downturns -- the great financial crisis, 2008. what is different this time, essentially? karl: i had a company back in the late 1990's that i was able to exit during the bust. we navigated through. definitely went through these challenges myself. i think that every economic downturn is different. this downturn, there is a lot of conjecture about what is driving, but ultimately there is a lot of international activity that is driving nation and driving some of these things that are really scaring the market. the one big difference is, whereas in 2008, really, money just ride up, i think the situation we have today is there

is a lot of money sitting on the sidelines. the money has not dried up. i think the market has crated nervousness and caution on the part of the investors themselves. that money is going to have to come back to work. these later stage fund investors have not put that money to work within a predetermined time. as the market really finds its bottom, there is a lot of money ready to come back in, so we are very positive and hopeful about the future and the opportunity for these companies to raise money in the future. the period between here and there is really the unknown. caroline: you were in fintech, and one key name from where you and i originally hailed from in europe, klana, a huge downgrade in terms of its overall market valuation. as the previous leader of

businesses in this time, have these companies raised enough previously? how are they helping their employees, who kind of audit the moment? karl: it is an interesting question. you have to consider your amount of capital, your ability to run. the companies that have a lot of capital on the balance sheet, whether they are private or public, have the highest potential to see through this time. you just have to manage the business through this time. once you get through it, hopefully the market turns and you begin to see the benefits of building and running a solid business. but your question about employees especially at the earlier stage, where in this market as well there is very low unemployment -- employees do have a lot of options to think about moving around and think about what they want to do companies are thinking about layoffs, some kind of tightening , the earnings potential. one really important thing is to keep your best performers and to motivate them. one thing we really speak to our ceo's about is how to deliver that vision, bring them along for the ride, make sure everybody realizes these businesses are not changing.

it is just that the vision is something they have to be more efficient about achieving. bringing the best team along with you and making sure they are motivated to see through the end of the journey is incredibly important. caroline: give us your assessment of the overall economy and recession risks that you see, because the companies you have funded in the past are discretionary names -- tonal, headspace, daily harvest. all of these things are retreats -- are treats, if you think about people who do not have cash slashing about. are you worried that people are pulling back slightly on their

spending? karl: to a degree, yes. your talking about later stage businesses. some people have already exited, so they are not really in our portfolio any longer. we realized our benefits at the exit point, when there was an m&a transaction or ipo, so we do not necessarily maintain that business. all tech companies across the board are obviously suffering massive compression of their valuations. realistically, when you see the multiples and the valuations that are in place for last year, they were probably unrealistic in march. have the over compressed? probably. if they have over compressed, there is opportunity for us at the bottom. as an investor in my personal, private, or public portfolio of my own, it is about waiting it out and allowing good companies with good fundamentals to see through the downturn and begin to get recognized for their value again. i think in the earlier stage businesses, it is really just -- it is less of an issue of how the public perceives your business. there is a valuation compression in the private markets as well. a lot of these companies need to have sufficient runway to be able to see through the other side companies that have raised money recently, we are advising them to have 24 months of cash on the balance sheet.

companies that have not raised recently are generally looking inside, to their inside investors, to their order, to do inside rounds just to shore up their cash position and put themselves in a position to see through this period. caroline: great to catch up with you. the portfolio, those that remain, the companies that you are still waiting for the exit -- karl alomar on how to whether this particular storm. walmart, talking of consumer discretionary, reportedly told buyers that new fuel pickup fleets are coming. the giant retailer will charge companies for transport to warehouses. some competitors such as amazon already imposed similar fees.

coming up, in the wake of rapid pandemic releases, a $150 million fund. how much is being allocated to the blockchain gaming? we will discuss. this is bloomberg . ♪

caroline: crypto, the space in what we call a winter history, some say in crisis. a gaming-focused vc firm raised $150 million for a new one which will include investments in blockchain games. we are joined by the managing partner at convoy ventures. how is the gaming industry going

to respond, josh? josh: thank you for having me on the show. blockchain gaming is going to thrive during this next macroeconomic cycle, for a couple of reasons. one is blockchain gaming rises on the back of the gaming industry, which already has two billion gamers worldwide, average age 36 years old. 35% of gamers are women. this has become a bull industry. over the last five to 10 years, you are seeing 100 million people join the gaming industry in general. on the back of that, there has been technological innovation in gaming decade, ever since the 1970's, when the gaming industry really started with blockchain gaming specifically, you are looking for an industry that is bringing primary thanks to the industry. one is business model innovation, which i can dig into a little bit more. second is the digital asset

ownership of the consumer. those two trends are going to drive successful blockchain gaming for the next decade caroline: i don't want to say all of your investments are blockchain related, but you have some big names. skye mavis would have been the big pinup, but that is a controversial game to be associated with because suddenly they have moved away from this play to earn kind of model. how do you see the space evolving, and why is it so controversial to mark josh: i don't see it as a controversial thing i would attribute that more to what they are doing is quite innovative. that sometimes sees resistance in the gaming industry. when you look at the success, you see a team that really pushed gaming by saying when you play you can earn this in game token thing that you could actually trade on external exchanges -- hence why there are tokens attached to the platform.

we have been thrilled with how the team has navigated the last six months and different challenges. they have done a great job of reopening the bridge. the founder and the company took ownership of a lot of things that went down. they have done a great job navigating meta-games, period. what has been most controversial is, should playtime he rewarded with financial rewards to mark the idea is not that novel because people have been gifted things to cosmetic items, through perks, through discounts. the blockchain ecosystem in general has brought this token financial personal ownership to the gaming industry. the two combined has been right powerful. skye mavis is one of the most successful, if not the most

successful, blockchain centric form on the planet. we happen to be an investor in this amazing team. caroline: there was a hack reported relative to a particular partner looking at a linkedin and, and they are looking for how on earth it happened. when there is a hack like this, you as a backer of the company -- should you be there as money of last resort? josh: i cannot get into that specifically, as to how it went down, but i can tell you the bridge has been reopened and fully funded. i can also say we are super impressed with how the team, at their own expense, and how the company balance sheet, came forward to protect the community from having to take that. that hack was an unfortunate event, but the team and the company stepped up to own that. when it comes to the investors, we are incentivized for the success of this company. we will continue to be in their corner.

i cannot get into the exact details of how that bridged and plugged in gaps, but they navigated it incredibly well, and as an investor we are thrilled to continue to support them publicly like this, as well as privately in boardroom meetings. caroline: what kind of other gaming startups are pushing the envelope, being innovative, using new ways to use the blockchain underlying technology, but also nft's as rewards? josh: at convoy, where specialists in investing in platforms and infrastructure for the church of the video gaming industry. that platform stuff that we look at -- the next discard, the next with -- the next discord, the next twitch, the next roblox. it is digital asset ownership, digital identities, and a new business model. i alluded to this earlier, but the is this model innovation that blockchain brings to gaming is going to be, in our view, as big as the rise of the free to play gaming model in the late

2000's. the free to play business model brought in about $50 billion to $80 billion to the gaming industry, which is now valued at over $200 billion. we think blockchain gaming, with the rise of a business model that allows the transfer of transactions automatically, without having to rely on counterparties, is a powerful technology the gaming industry is going to absolutely take advantage of and integrate into web 2.0. i think you will also see gaming companies not necessarily go the ipo route, go for some type of nft revenue component to what they are doing. we think this can be incredibly powerful, and it has already proven to generate aliens of

dollars in the last 12 to 18 months. caroline: josh chapman of konvoy ventures. technology cost terrorism? china is preventing the sale of chipmaking gear.

caroline: china accusing the u.s. of technological terrorism in its push to stop asml and nikon from sending key chipmaking technology to the country. eric martin broke that scoop. it is interesting how the u.s. is leaning on the dutch and japanese makers. china responding gruffly to it. eric: that is right. we have seen china rejecting the pressure the u.s. is putting on asml, as well as on nikon, japan, with asml having by far the biggest market share of this technology, the ultraviolet thurber fee equipment. caroline: i won't tell you how much i had to look into some of the technology when i reported on asml's numbers, and some of the other european equipment makers. what could china do in response? what about their own innovation in the country to be able to develop such a med? eric: we have certainly seen efforts by the chinese to develop their own equipment. to date, they have not had a whole lot of success with it.

asml remains by and large the sole provider of this uv etching equipment to china. this is not the most advanced etching meant. it is kind of the second generation, the older generation, but still the most commonly used in this industry. this is something the chinese definitely have a desire to still in large on. advanced, rich countries are selling and making this a med. but they have not been very successful in the effort to re-create it. caroline: do you think this will bear fruit? i know i asked this previously, but we have heard further from nikon, from asml, over whether they are willing to respond? eric: asml so far has not gone along with it and has objected

to the u.s. push on the netherlands for asml to be cut off from these kinds of sales. they are feeling that this is not something the u.s. should be doing. but we have seen a broad u.s. push on china and on some of the chip producers in china. it is something the bureau of industry and security is, on a daily basis, looking at, in terms of trying to stop china from matching or overtaking the u.s. in this kind of technology, under national security concerns. caroline: the next thing you are looking for? whether asml eventually does go along with this, or if the government of the netherlands goes along with it, blocking the sale of this kind of technology. this is a real chokepoint for china's chip industry, and something that could really hamstring china going forward. caroline: eric martin with all

the scoops. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. tomorrow, we are back in sun valley. a major league soccer commissioner. football if you are british. make sure you tune in, and don't forget to check out our podcast. you can find it on the terminal and online on apple and spotify. from new york, this is bloomberg. ♪

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