tv Bloomberg Surveillance Bloomberg July 14, 2022 8:00am-9:00am EDT
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>> it all comes back to this inflation story. >> the fed hike can only have so much of an effect on bringing prices down. >> giving the key stability. >> globalization is great on the upside and downside has thesame -- >> there will have to be some pain. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance." tom: good morning, everyone, jonathan ferro, lisa abramowicz, and tom keene on tv and radio. jp morgan and morgan stanley report, market turmoil in the earnings reports. jonathan: jp morgan preparing for tougher times and this market is adjusting. you see that for the yield curve, yields higher and the 10 yield -- 10 year yield lower. the breakdown and copper, down 1.3%. crude, wti down. another handoff earlier this morning.
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the tail risk becomes the base case, recession. tom: think as hard as we can, equities, bonds, currencies, commodities, all of our wonderful guests, expect the unexpected. bank of canada changed the market. jonathan: a new regime is what he's looking for and expects that to come with high volatility and low returns, but ultimately higher interest rates and sticky inflation. you look at that as evidence we have seen the worst, energy will fade and the headline number will calm down, or will this be broader and the fed will have to go higher for longer? tom: i look at netherlands natural gas and there is any number of tensions to focus on. europe is still very visible. jonathan: without a doubt, let's call it parity on euro-dollar. in the italian bond market,
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yields are breaking out, spreads are wider and we need to talk about the prospect the italian government collapses. next week nord stream 2 down for maintenance and a complete unknown how much gas will come through. european leaders coming out this morning, president macron saying citizens and companies will need to reduce energy use. that is the dire straits europe finds itself in. tom: lawrence mcdonald will join us. i can't say enough about this, asa abramowitz, larry mcdonald is focused on emerging markets. it is got the characteristics you see in egypt. lisa: i wonder if that will be the story or if it will be a continuation of europe driving down the rest of the world to acting em like in terms of how volatile the inflation backdrop is. i want to build on the gas issue, in addition to what we heard from emmanuel macron, dass
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storage levels are falling for we get into peak usage months at a time people are worried about the gas supply being cut off raises the specter of germany coming out with something similar and saying stop using so much, put on a sweater, keep temperatures at this level. tom: -27 basis points. in honor of alan greenspan, jon has a headline. jonathan: andrea hall and horse from citibank -- we see a 100 basis point rate hike this month . the committee showed it will react to each monthly meeting, each inflation reading. we expect policy rates to reach 4% by the end of 2022. here's the call from citibank, 100 basis points this month from the fomc and policy rates to reach 4% by the end of 2022. let me remind you, a few months ago when citibank came out with that call for a 50 basis point
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hike and another, a lot of people laughed and then it became the base case. then things went even further so the citi call, 100 basis points, remembering the banks calling for this have been out front on the tightening cycle in a way others have not. tom: are we simply prepared for 4%? we are not. jonathan: i don't think we are either. tom: let's get through this quick, because victoria's impatience. futures deteriorating -40. before jp morgan, now for -- -57. what do you see? jonathan: down 1.5% and we see further curve inversion, the 10 year yield a little bit lower. 2.6 2% on the 10 year. crude, 9390 -- 93 .92 on wti. tom: deterioration in em even as
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the philippine bank steps in with a rate increase. victoria fernandez joins us. what should mirror mortals do here? -- mere mortals do here? victoria: there is so much confusion. you've rattled off all these different things, highest inflation numbers in decades yet at the same time 10 year yields falling, five-year year and 10 year breakevens at historical averages. it is this concern of more what we are going to see the ecb do next week. that is going to flow through and cause volatility in markets. when you are looking at all of this, what we are doing with our clients is trying to nibble a little bit here and there in the markets to balance out our portfolio. we've cooled on value names, added growth, and it comes down to quality. with earnings season, you need
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quality of earnings, quality of balance sheets. we looked at the balance sheets with the banks. this is where you've got to focus so we've done some names like waste management, general dynamics, that have those features associated with them. lisa: in the past week and what we've seen in terms of the cpi and jp morgan cause you to increase your view of where we are in the cycle? are we halfway in the selloff or almost there? victoria: i've shifted my thought a little bit over the last week. more in the terms of i do think that recession is probably a little bit sooner rather than later compared to where i was but we talked recently, looking at the second half of next year for recession. i think that's been brought forward, a lot of because what we are seeing in europe. we have the fed that said they will do whatever they need to do . i don't think they want to do a thelma and the wheeze and drive
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us off -- thelma and louise and drive us off a cliff but it will affect growth. it is interesting in the jp morgan release, jamie dimon says consumer spending is high and the ability to spend is still strong. we have some counter transit work that perhaps means if we go into recession sooner it won't be deep. lisa: there is consensus building about going into duration and long dated bonds because whatever the trajectory is, the near term is lower inflation and lower growth. are you piling onto that? victoria: we've been extending our duration and fixed income strategies. we've been short duration a long time and that's worked well. we are not going long versus the benchmark what we are getting closer to neutral. i think that's the best way to play that, so you give yourself the room to go shorter or longer depending on what you are seeing
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developed over the next couple of quarters. you are seeing more and more of that. people realize longer-term yields will be lower. 2.7% on the 10 year is the level we think we will stay above but we call for a hide between 3% and 3.25% this year. we went above that last month but that may be where we end up. jonathan: awesome to get your views on this show, victoria fernandez of cross mark global. some interesting calls on wall street as it adjusts in a major way. bank of america, looking for the recession in the second half of this year. cb dressed subramanian had to adjust on that. then we get this call from citibank, 100 basis point hike. the big call, it is not about 75 or 100 at the end of july but a bigger call is whether you think
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the fed has to go a whole lot further for longer. they've got the fed at 4% by the end of 2022. that's much more important as to whether this fed does 75 or 100. lisa: embedded in that comment is that going to be the end? is this aggressive front loading bring this down quickly or something they are concerned is more protracted? that's also a huge discrepancy when you talk long-term especially about long dated bonds and the conviction into duration. tom: the fed parlor game yesterday stopped. i don't know what else to say. when i'm looking ahead of the markets, the way yen is deteriorating has become much more into a correlated, global moment, gaining a given central bank, when they are going to do this or that. jonathan: tell me what the -- will do. tom: there is people smarter than me looking at that but the
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bottom line, find me somebody that believes yield curve control in japan is a valid, doable process, over time. nobody believes that and when does it break? jonathan: can they resist what's coming, a one hundred basis point move? lisa: as you see the dollar ascending, that is the key question. or do they have to wait until the pressure comes off to show they are doing it on their own terms? at a certain point the levels become very difficult. jonathan: it feels like five minutes ago we said can we break 107 on the dollar index and we are standing -- staring down the barrel of 109. tom: dollar index, 107 to 109, major trading. europe is 54%. the bbtxy shows the folded in tension. jonathan: the international tech
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names with decent exposure, the 12 coming from a weaker economy and a weaker euro. futures down 1.5%. with tom keene and lisa abramowicz, i am jonathan ferro. for our audience worldwide, this is "bloomberg surveillance." ♪ ritika: keeping you up to date with news, i am ritika gupta. officials at the fed may debate a historic 1% rate hike this month. the fed president told reporters everything is in play after consumer prices rose faster than they expected, 9.1% through june. it is more than likely to hike rates by 100 basis points at the next meeting. -- is looking at announcing in september he will one for -- donald is looking to announce in
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september he will run for president again. before the midterm, he will drive turnout. in israel, president biden committed to extending an agreement that provides billions of dollars to the military, signing a joint declaration with the prime minister. the document says the countries will never allow iran to acquire a nuclear bomb. in the u.k., conservative party balloting continuing in the process to determine the next prime minister. it has been cut to six and trade minister penny morgan has emerged as the frontrunner. a dispute has erected between london's heathrow airport and one of the biggest airlines in the middle east. emirates rejected heathrow's demands to cut capacity and said it will operate flights at -- emirates says heathrow isn't giving it enough time to rebook
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♪ >> this report reflects that inflation is unacceptably high. the economy looks well-positioned to deal with the charges -- conditions with the fed to cool inflation and russia's war in ukraine. we are really going to be hoping the federal reserve can pull off this soft landing. jonathan: i have to laugh, over to the federal reserve to engineer a soft landing and bring inflation down. that was the chair of the white house council of economic
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advisers. futures down 1.4% on the s&p, on the nasdaq, down one percentage point. citi looking for a 100 basis point move on the fed funds rate and 4% year-end. there are some massive calls. crude down by two full percentage points, 94.28. jamie dimon on the earnings media call saying inflation might be higher than you expect. the stock is lower than some were looking for. the 3% earnings miss in the share buyback preparing for bad times. jamie dimon saying the consumer is strong enough to withstand some of that pain. tom: folks in croatia, just because of the shortness, substantial markets on the move. i've got to go to the twos tends spread which was a negative 20
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basis points. what is your statistic? jonathan: over the last 24 hours, two year yield is higher, 10 year yield lower. lisa talked about it. it is the prospect of higher fed rate ahead in the prospect of slower growth in the future. tom: let's take the correlations of the market and go to the single correlation for washington, no one is getting paid anything given this high inflation. it is the wage reality washington faces. andy blocker has spent years looking at this. at harvard years ago, jobs and wages matter. he is a head of global policy. what is the urgency this time around of a horrific negative real wage? andy: politically, it can be death for politicians. right now, who talk about the
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economy always being the most important thing. inflation is a major part of the economy the talks about how people live everyday. with this latest spike, 9.1% and not seeing the top soon enough for elections, it can have a real impact on what's happening in the midterm elections. tom: i guess the suits and ties will tell us a higher unemployment rate is good for us now. explain that to the american people. how does mr. powell, frankly president biden, told a higher unemployment rate is good for you as we bring inflation down? andy: so of course you give me a tough task but theoretically the thought would be a higher unemployment rate would actually soften wage inflation which can be the core of inflation. they are focused on getting down
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inflation and if you are just looking at it from an inflation perspective it could be good. the other side is an economic downturn essentially. they are trying to walk that fine line and as you guys have been talking about, the 75 basis point increase, a full point, full 100 basis points, this is a tough place to be and i'm glad i'm not working at the fed to navigate this. lisa: meanwhile we are trying to parse out the rhetoric of president biden and his associates with what they actually are planning to do with respect to going after companies they accuse of price gouging. i'm thinking of oil companies but who is next in terms of airlines are not increasing capacity in the face of increasing demand. how much will there be -- will this be a reality? is there meat or just lip service? andy: there is only meat if
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there is actual malfeasance. the administration has high inflation, potential recession on the horizon. they have people really feeling the pain. they need to make sure they are out there looking at every lever they can on every level to help make things better. whether it's going to saudi arabia, which we've heard it may not be about oil but we know a big part of it is boil, or whether it is going after companies -- companies in the u.s.. lisa: when they have no more levers they say look to the fed, it's their job. how politicized is the fed? andy: the fed has been politicized for some time and i don't want to go too far but we've gone from a dovish fed many people think were late to the inflation acknowledgment, saying it was short-term to now where they are really kind of putting on the gas to raise
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rates. to say that politics didn't play a role in both of these, i think would be missing the point. jonathan: so well said, andy blocker of invesco. white house put an instant -- a statement yesterday saying -- we will continue to give the fed the right space, or something like that. we already between the lines. lisa: there was also other nuances in that statement including the focus on core cpi -- core cpi. they say headline cpi is more important now and we've seen that in anecdotal situations but the president said core cpi is coming down and that's good. he tries to soften a pretty bleak message. jonathan: the economic council director for some of those speaking points. your-dollar has been breaking
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down. negative about one half of 1%. when we broke parity yesterday, the ecb had this for a statement -- the ecb does not target certain exchange rate, however we are always attentive to the impact of the exchange rate on inflation along with our mandate of price stability. let me translate -- this year is weak and it's making our problem with inflation bigger. tom: the world bank has talked very little about this. a depreciation gets rationalized by the fancy people. none of it matters, you are poor . i've got to look at the hallmark. rounded up, bloomberg dollar index, right out near new record level with that e.m. weakness. i would suggest a 1300 on bbdxy, that's similar to dow 10,000.
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down 500 points earlier. jonathan: if i wake up and someone says the dow is down, it means nothing. tom: for all americans it is a big deal. jonathan: if you went to sleep for 20 years and woke up it would be a much bigger deal. tom: it is an american thing. jonathan: you underestimate the knowledge in these markets that they've moved away from it. there's a reason the market does not offer dow forecasts, do they? they don't. a dow forecast year end, name a bank. tom: i have to look. jonathan: down 1.4% on the s&p. this is bloomberg. ♪
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of usage outages reported for thousands of users. according to a couple of different reports, it just has an error screen. jonathan: so we can't mount about ppi. -- moan about ppi. michael: we will have a lot of people moaning about a 100 point basis move. up 1.1%, an increase that was originally reported as .8%. the energy category comes in up .4%, a little bit of a decline. on a year-over-year basis we are up from 10.8 jobless claims, 244,000 filed compared to
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235,000. i will get the prior week's revision. it is an increase of 9000 on the month. this set of data are not going to be well received by folks on wall street and if you look at the bond market i think you will see a reaction. tom: i see that. i just did a moving average study that claims nice -- claims my numbers are 207,000. when do we blink on claims moving from an arbitrary 207,000 up to 244,000? michael: we will probably take a while because it is high frequency data and people want to make sure it is not one-off or a fluke. if we get a couple more weeks with these kinds of jumps then people will get nervous. this is july and july is when a lot of auto plants shut down for
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retooling so historically there is a seasonal adjustment problem on the retooling weeks different each year. it is hard to account for so it may be this is just an unusual situation where we are seeing people on temporary layoff. if this is a trend that continues, obviously it will worry the fed. jonathan: michael mckee, looking forward to your conversation with governor waller later. there is no one better to do it. mike will sit down with governor waller. what time? lisa: 11:30 a.m. tom: waller is out of st. louis. when they reinvented statistical analysis, st. louis led the way and waller is a discipline of that. conrad dequadros a senior economic advisor at brean capital, this is the conversation of the day. if you are worried about a so-called terminal rate, there
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is 3, 3 .5, 4% at a given bank. you out do them all. what happens if we go to a brean capital 4.5%? conrad: then we make some progress bringing inflation down . the problem of the day is inflation. we've had over the course of the last 2.5 years a number of narratives on inflation which started with covid will be disinflationary. that went for six months and then inflation will be transitory, only in a handful of goods. yesterday's cpi report, it is neither transitory obviously and we have very broad-based increases. it looks like underlying inflation is somewhere in the import of 5% when we look at the new medians and sticky price measures. raising a point on the federal funds rate, the idea for the fed
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is to get policy to neutral and maybe beyond. the problem is i think they are misjudging neutral. the 2.5% neutral rate is a rate that exists when inflation was at 2%. it's a nominal rate so the neutral rate is probably higher and i think the fed has got work to do to get policy tight and bring inflation down. lisa: the terminal rate 4.5%, the path to get there is important. is this a front or rapid rate rise, or a gradual and steady painful drip of let's get it up because it is not coming down when we look at inflation? conrad: the fed will take what the market gives it in the market is giving the fed basically a green light to go by 100 basis points in july so unless that changes i think the fed will take that. they want to frontload these moves, get the funds rate to what they think is neutral and may be a little bit beyond.
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i think that judgment might be off. i think the neutral rate is probably higher. if you look at the fed funds rate and put it in real terms, it is significantly negative and i don't know how we bring inflation down with negative real rate. lisa: when we look at the data we've gotten, the cpi, jp -- jp morgan and morgan stanley, and jobless claims higher than expected and rising more than expected. can you put into perspective how telling that is versus noise and data that has been noisy? conrad: the jobless claims are important. it is a high-frequency indicator of the labor market. as mike pointed out, july is a difficult time for claims because of auto shutdowns. we had an announcement from one of the large auto manufacturers that they are shutting down production until september. if we take a broader view of the labor market and look at things
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like job openings, whether it is the bls data or small business job openings that showed 50% reported jobs they could not fill, the record high in 1973, was last month. we might see some pickup in layoff rates but right now if we look at the broader data and small-business data, it looks like there are a lot of jobs to fill. as people lose jobs there will be opportunities to get jobs. tom: there were research reports that would come down and john riding would write about tumult like 1998. i remember this clearly waiting for the research for bear stearns and doj and such -- boj and such. when we look at the correlations , deterioration in yen, the 2-10
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spread and 100 basis points, are we getting to that tension in the global system? conrad: one thing we are trying to adjust is to a market that the fed in terms of its balance sheet. we have the fed has begun the process of normalizing the balance sheet and that has had important implications for the functioning of markets. it raises other issues. in my opinion we can look at the fed shift in the monetary policy framework and say that's been a disaster for price stability but the other issue we have to deal with is we've had over the last 15 years or so a shift in the fed reserve policy which relates to markets. the fed has shifted to an ample reserves policy but with tight regulations on liquidity. we will have some stress to deal
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with as it reduces its balance sheet as forward funding rates are less certain. in may if you told people it would be 2.5% at the end of july that would've been a shock. there is uncertainty in funding rates. the fed is pulling back on the size of its balance sheet and adequate -- aggregate liquidity is high. liquidity doesn't necessarily get the market what is needed. we had the treasury blow up in march. these are some issues that are still out there. tom: conrad dequadros, thank you so much. breaking news. mr. diamon is rationalizing world. jonathan: sonali basak is listening in. this is what he had to say. the regulators had a new test, which we don't agree with it, reducing credit in the marketplace and reducing buybacks. jp morgan suspending the share
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buyback program. the cfo on the call, consumers still don't feel so pinched by inflation they are cutting back on discretionary spending and that's a relatively positive sign. that from jp morgan. the current spending data from b of a spoke to a different picture. here is on gas prices from the cfo -- average spending is up 35% year on year. that's the number from jp morgan. i can fold in the data from bank of america to give you a bigger picture. the low income cohort is spending about 10% on gas alone. tom: that's very true and on an e.m. basis, in egypt and sri lanka. to me what is so important here is a death style analysis of the fact of whatever kind of recession you want to call it, even a growth recession, it affects so many different parts
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of america in unique ways. the habs are still spending -- haves are still spending. jonathan: what do you make of that? the regulators had a new test which we don't agree with. lisa: it is not that we are so gloomy and trying to paint at positive, consumers still look like they are spending which helps them. let's call a spade a spade. if you take a look at bank of america, credit card data, confirmed in airline travel and the cpi report yesterday, that was one area where prices came down. there are signs airline travel is starting to decline in the face of higher prices. it is clear there has been some sort of offset from the higher gas prices and inflationary wind. jonathan: do you want to say something about downturn? thoughts? lisa: when you talk about whether people are reducing
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travel, is it for the experience, the price? jonathan: getting stuck at an airport? tom: are we ready for the 4.5% terminal rate world? jonathan: i don't think so. futures are down 1.25% on the s&p. i'm taking a day off tomorrow. you and lisa all day on bloomberg tv and radio and all night apparently too. catch you next week. the dow down for 38. that's my goodbye gift. tom: copper. jonathan: this is bloomberg. ♪ ritika: keeping you up-to-date with news, i am ritika gupta. the u.s. senate is getting closer to deal on the economic agenda but state and local tax deduction issues will spark a showdown among democrats. senator joe manchin has been negotiating with chuck schumer and salt hasn't been in the mix.
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that could doom the bill. the u.s. house has passed a bill to set up a warning system for active shooter situations. the legislation gained new urgency after shootings in texas, new york, and illinois. republicans call it an encroachment on the rights of gun owners. sri lanka's president has arrived in singapore after protests. singapore says he has not asked for asylum. there have been months of protests with soaring inflation, shortages of food, fuel, and medicine. manhattan rents sword to a record high. the median is $4550, 20% higher than a years and -- a year ago. competition for manhattan apartments is expected to get more intense.
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♪ >> on whether we get back to 2%, 3%, that's not likely to happen before 2023. in our view, we hover around the 2% to 3% range which we think the fed will accept as the new normal. tom: on where we are in these markets, i guess there's a little bit of a breath here. -27 bps on the tuesday and. i'm struggling. lisa: the day of the story is the dollar -- the story of the
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day is the dollar. the fed will have to hike and there is so much uncertainty globally that's the only haven. it is one that is highly concerning for a lot of places. tom: long ago and far away, lehman brothers was a shop that excelled in the fixed income trading market. when lawrence mcdonald worked there, he made them some money. he went on to do all sorts of other things including books and the bear traps report but what he's really known for is every once in a while writing an essay where a given year you stop. he did that this morning for the esteemed zero hedge. the first thing i read this morning as well, i've been talking up tunisia as something interesting in the middle east and you are focused on the fixed income deterioration of emerging markets. we've seen this before, haven't
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we? lawrence: this period we are in right now is so amazing because once or twice a decade, maybe even three times in 20 years you get a 2, 3, 4 week period where asset prices are moving at an accelerated pace, so fast and normally economists that are on the shows are looking at economic data but when risk assets are moving this fast, the risk assets takeover economic data. tom: the difference here is really important. while everybody else in the bowtie world was studying economics, mcdonald was at the sea at cape cod having a good time where he learned how to trade. you know this is what this is about is the bid walks away. you've got a bloomberg terminal behind you.
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explain right now the character of the bid walking away right now. larry: it is the rate of change of asset prices where the leveraged loans, emerging market bonds, credit default swaps on banks, the highest acceleration in the rate of change speed is literally as fast as covid, as fast as lehman, and economists around the world are looking at all these rate hikes. at the end of the day, credit risk is about to veto the fed's policy path. the dollar is so strong, it is the global wrecking ball. the imf is owed 100 billion dollars from emerging market countries and the fed is lighting balance sheet on fire. lisa: i'm trying to wrap my head around the reddick which is incredibly poetic. credit risk is about to veto the tightening bath and risk assets are -- path and risk assets are
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taking -- reaching a breaking point. are you saying the fed will have to backtrack or is there a more material for your coming -- fissure coming that is irredea mable -- irredeemable? larry: late june the results came out and the media was really celebrating these results. here we are not even three weeks later and there's a restatement of those results. that tells me the regulators saw a shock. something is really -- has really scared regulators. for that type of change in position over 30 days and the rate of change in bonds, copper and oil, inside a 30 day period we've never had a move like that without jobs being down like
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100,000 to 200,000. lisa: what's the breaking point? you talked about emerging markets and multiply that by 10. are we seeing that beginning or are we just on the precipice, seeing the beginning of the breakage in the dollar, in what you are seeing with the japanese yen and in certain markets for risk assets? larry: the fed is trying to stop inflation in the united states by promising a thousand rate hikes essentially -- i'm exaggerating, 15 rate hikes including one trillion of tightening. the rest of the world is not doing anything and that regard in the develop markets, except for maybe canada. when the dollar strengthens and you are in an emergent market -- emerging market country trying to buy wheat, gas, oil, the fed is exporting inflation to the
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developing world and crushing civilizations around the planet. tom: just one more question, the famous shot of lehman brothers watching the deterioration of the company and the gartman report is up on the screen. that was a time of leverage. the optimists are pushing back against you saying the leverage here is not like it was in 1998 or the great financial crisis. do you buy it or is leverage just different in different places this time? larry: behind me, we run a bloomberg chat with institutional investors on the buy side in 20 some countries. in the last few weeks, the conversation from buy side investors with billions of dollars focused on sovereign risk. this is -- this transferred the lehman risk from the balance sheets sheets of the banks to sovereigns and now they are
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accelerating and blowing up the global bond market. tom: larry mcdonald, thank you so much, one of the essays of the summer. i thought it was fantastic. i got goosebumps literally over not the similarities but some of the illusions to what we've seen in other crises. i go back to i think it is ecuador in 1992. lisa: we are not seeing the fissure in the credit space and not seeing companies unable to raise money. there are pockets of distress but it is not the wholesale market shut down, market dysfunction that michael shaoul is worrying about. the fact that -- and i think this is a really important point that larry raised -- the fact that the fed is so worried about something coming down the pike they want that fortress of cash jp morgan to hold more cash and be conservative buying back
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shares tells you something very loud and clear. tom: there's a fundamental difference this time around, the amount of cash held, whether directly by banks, indirectly central banks, or just by the public. it is a radically different tone than 3, 4, times before. dow futures were negative 500, -460 now. i'm struggling here. a little bit of improvement in the last hours about what i can do on it. dollar-yen, 1.39. that is a wow statistic. please stay with us through the morning. the markets absolutely fascinating. fascinating. on radio and televis
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