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tv   Bloomberg Technology  Bloomberg  July 15, 2022 5:00pm-6:00pm EDT

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>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang.
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emily: this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, twitter has a big week ahead, not just earnings, but the first hearing in twitterverse's musk is scheduled for tuesday -- twitter versus musk is scheduled for tuesday. amazon and meta are getting creative to save cash with plans to cut back on office expansion in new york. and we are chatting with anthony about the bitcoin downturn and his start up designed to train workers for a new generation. all of that enrollment but i want to get a look at the markets, tech leading the way. it was another down week over all of two key weeks of key earnings reports. ed ludlow has the latest.
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>> we are really bracing for this earnings period where we think the biggest tech companies are going to give us this lens into the global economy, the consumer. there's a lot of green on the screen, to see the s&p 500, the nasdaq, both up almost two percentage points. you see the philadelphia semiconductor index. sk hynix, a maker of memory chips, is pulling back on its spending plans because of weakening demand, but that boosted the sector on friday. yields softer as well. we are micro focused on the fed but we are also looking at other data. we have the michigan consumer sentiment data for the month of june. it was a reading that ticked up
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in the most recent data dump as inflation is still hot. in retail data, the economy is holding up, spending is plateauing, but we are starting to rethink how worried we are about the fed and how aggressively they will raise rates. if you look at the increments, we have come down from thinking we are going to get 100 basis points at the next meeting down to 75 basis points, 50 basis points. you throw in the mix that eco-stuff, we are here on the news, let's go. amazon up 2.6%. really strong prime day. netflix up 8%, fascinating next week when we get there earnings. they revised their guidance for the year in light of what happened in the first half of the year. a lot of movement.
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finally, interest -- pinterest up 16%, and activist investor has taken a stake in the company. fairly investors, a positive sign -- clearly investors, a positive sign. emily: looking ahead, a judge set a hearing for tuesday granting twitter's request fast track its case against elon musk. twitter lawyers claim elon musk wrongfully canceled his fire out and say they only need four days to prove it in court in the court of public opinion. joining me now, jasmine enberg. twitter has been in a state of limbo for months. housing the for can is it that they got the judge to hear this case right away? jasmine: it is significant but it is only the first hearing in what i expect will be a going out of court battle.
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either way, there is no great outcome for twitter. it is either going to end up in the hands of someone who is unhappy and i'm interested in the product or they are going to go back to the same position they were and or the deal began which is a position of underperformance, or perhaps even weaker than it was last april. emily: twitter earnings are coming out towards the end of next week. what are you expecting? jasmine: i'm expecting that we will see that twitter had a turbulent quarter and i'm not expecting the terminal to end right now. musk is the noisiest challenge twitter is dealing with, but it is also susceptible to the challenges in the digital advertising medscape which include macro economic headwinds, i was changes, consumer behaviors, which are impacting social media platforms across the board. twitter is a relatively small
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player. we expect twitter to rick and 1% of worldwide digital ad revenue this year -- to rake in 1% of worldwide digital ad revenue this year. tiktok is double where twitter is expected to be by the end of this year. for a small tear player, this is probably a tough quarter. emily: you have twitter still making product announcements in the middle of this, trying to portray this business as usual environment when all of this is unprecedented. i'm. how you think a courtroom battle -- you've also got u.s. midterm elections. how do you think this is going to impact engagement? jasmine: twitter has been rolling out new converts related tools in order to prove to advertises that it is business as normal, but it is in. twitter is a platform that thrives on news and controversies. there is a possibility that
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people login more, sign up for the platform to watch the drama. we also heard some people may have left the platform because they did not want it to be controlled by much. i am expecting to see some growth in active users. at insider intelligence for 2022, we are expecting minimal growth worldwide and a decline in twitter users. we forecast monthly users so they are not comparable to twitters daily use. emily: if you are a twitter investor, what do you do? jasmine: that is a great question. we will have to wait and see the state of the financials next week and we will get a better picture of what twitter is dealing with. emily: jasmine enberg, always good to have your perspective on the show. thank you. what are elon musk chances of getting out of this deal and has good -- how good is twitters
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case? i want to bring in the executive director of the kerry law school. i'm excited to have you, curious to hear what you think. whose argument is better? looking at what you have seen so far, a rock's complaint from twitter as well as what we have heard from elon musk. he has been prolific on twitter. who has a better case? >> dates on what i have seen, i will side with twitter. but it is early. i have seen from musk's lawyer their principal contentions about why musk is entitled to walk away. i have read twitters complaint and it is pretty clear that there is more to the story once twitter tells it that suggests to me that musk's arguments are going to be tough. i can go into detail but that is the old worldview. emily: how significant is the
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judge fast tracking this suit? lawrence: it is standard when someone asks for a trial in a couple months for the judge to hear a question to the scheduling right away, sometimes the same day. tuesday is leisurely for something like this. the question is what is 20 happen tuesday and is the judge going to schedule a trial in september or is musk going to come in with guns blazing, with a filing that says you should not try this case with any kind of unusual speed, you are never going to make me go through with a deal, so there's no rush? we have not seen musk's filing in opposition to twitters request for speed. it would be and i guess by monday.
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i would still think the judge would set the case down for trial sometime in the fall, maybe even late summer. emily: windows musk not come in guns blazing? -- when does musk not come in guns blazing? i do same you think this could be wrapped up in the fall? -- are you saying you think this could be wrapped up in the fall? lawrence: it will be drawn out and it is going to seem long but it is possible it could be over by late fall. that is not an unusual pace involving busted deals. emily: how likely is it that a court will force elon musk to do this deal? i know it is fairly unprecedented, but there is some precedent. lawrence: there is some. the chancellor who will be hearing the case did it herself,
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though a much smaller company. it is a remedy that has been used in forcing the buyer to go forward. i can also say that the merger agreement between musk and twitter is pretty strong in suggesting that that is what the court would need to do. but it is a judge, it is a chancellor. they value their flexibility and his question -- and this question -- and discrection -- discretion. i could see the judge thinking, forcing this deal would not be good for the world and i could apply sanctions for noncompliance, if that is what she finds. emily: how could the court forced musk to buy twitter? do you see a daily find? do you see going after his assets, his tesla shares? lawrence: those would be the
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natural go twos -- go-to's. people have asked me, what about imprisonment? i don't think that is in the cards. daily fines, you could call it the usual stuff. we are a long way away from that. there has to be a judgment and musk would have to find an appropriate response. if a court orders you to go forward with a deal, i could see even elon musk settling it. emily: if he is forced to buy it, could he then turned around and sell it? lawrence: a buyer and finishes the acquisition, it is his company to do with what he wishes. whatever governance powers he's got over the company, he can use to seek new investors, sell off a significant stake, or continue to run it as a buyer.
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emily: i want to talk about who winds in any of these scenarios -- wins in any of these scenarios. one early member of the -- one early member of the twitter founding team said no one when -- wins except the lawyers. >> you know the lawyers are excited when a case is described as unprecedented. so they are set. everyone else is a loser in this. emily: no matter the outcome, is this going to be any good for twitter or elon musk in the end? lawrence: jasmine enberg said something that i thought was right on the money. no matter what happens, the longer this drags out, the worse it is for twitter. elon musk is sitting on the sidelines looking at twitter and he does not have to do anything except litigate and he's got the
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resources to pay the lawyers to do that. twitter is the party that has to deal with running a business while these fireworks are going off. as i have told people, that is not an enviable negotiating position. there is a victory scenario i suppose for twitter. there are a lot of things that can go wrong for everybody. emily: how much will musk's own record be used against him? he has a history with the stc qamar key did not disclose his original twitter shares the way he should have, he has had regulatory issues over the last few months. will that come into play? lawrence: at best, the court in a case like this is going to focus like a laser on the terms of the merger agreement. if this case is going to get
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decided after a trial four days or six days or whatever, it is going to have to be focused. i would think you are not going to hear a lot of these peripheral things, what musk has done. it is not as if the chancellor is unaware of some of the color here. i would not expect the parties to focus on it. emily: all right, lawrence hamermesh, really appreciate your thoughts and insights today. nice to talk to you. coming up, tiktok is beefing up its global security team over scrutiny over user data. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: tiktok named a new head of security with increasing scrutiny from u.s. policymakers over concerns user data could end up in the hands of the chinese government. who did they tap to run security? we are talking about the parent company. >> of course. they tap someone from internal. she will run global security and is replacing ronald cartier who was there before. we are in this moment for tiktok where they are starting with the
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government, a lot of focus is on what they are doing security wise and in making this move and this change this morning, but tiktok ceo said this is part of their evolving approach to minimize concerns about security in the u.s.. what i am reading between the lines, what i'm hearing from a source who is close to the decision-making is that cartier was a great keep the bad guys out guy. now they are evolving their approach to think about how to best set up a data management department and security department that are lazy some of these concerns we have seen coming out of congress about what tiktok is doing with u.s. users data and is any of that getting into nefarious hands through its parent company. emily: we have a statement from the ceo. part of our evolving approach has been to minimize concerns
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about the security of user data including the creation of a new department to manage user data for tiktok. can you remind us what the company has said about how they handle you asked how they handle user data and whether -- about how they handle user data and whether the chinese government can use it? alex: the company said they are working on cordoning off u.s. users' data and working with the national security arm of the u.s. government to decide which protected data should stay in u.s. servers. those servers will be run by oracle. they have said, we are trying to keep stuff here, but what has raised concern is a couple weeks ago, they did admit that some u.s. user data does get in the hands of chinese employees. they say there are vigorous security constraints. so far, what that information is, it is public videos, public
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comments, things needed to run the app at large. that is the split they are talking about. it does seem like this will be an evolving landscape, evolving infrastructure going forward with this shakeup in the security arm. emily: what is next? alex: there should be some meetings with brandon carr's team, he is an ftc member who has been very vocal saying this week that tiktok is a security threat to our military. the company has said they are meeting with that team. they will also continue working with the national security arm of the u.s. government to try to wall off this information in a way they feel comfortable with. i would guess what they are trying to do is head off any large fives we saw a couple years ago with president trump at the time saying we need to get rid of tiktok because it is
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a national security threat. i would expect that volume two continue between bomb makers and tiktok -- between lawmakers and tiktok. emily: coming up, new york's prospects as the tech hub took a hit. we will explain next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: now to an exclusive, meta and amazon are cutting back on plans to boost their office presence to cut costs. both companies are backing out of expansions in new york that could have brought hundreds of millions of dollars to the city's economy. what do we know? >> we reported today that meta and amazon have pulled back on expansion plans for offices in
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new york city. meta has planned to take over 300,000 square feet of offices in a building and that would have been a big expansion, it is no longer doing that according to our sources. amazon was in talks to expand my taking over 400,000 square feet, and they are also cutting back on the amount of square footage they are looking to take. it shows a caution on these tech firms in terms of looking at how much office space they need. emily: how big a blow is this to new york's ambitions to become a bigger tech hub? natalie: it is a big blow just because new york has been struggling and is slowly started to come back in terms of office leasing. the firms that were driving this where the tech firms, like facebook, like amazon. the fact that even these firms are pressing pause on growth, that is likely going to trickle out across smaller tech firms,
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the crypto firms, and other firms. emily: is this happening elsewhere? natalie: this is happening elsewhere across the country. amazon has cut back on other real estate needs in terms of warehouses for sites that they just built or purchased several months ago. they pressed pause on those sites, they expanded to quickly come our is halting on other sites. office markets in places like san francisco, los angeles have been struggling to come back because tech firms have been slower to bring back their workers. now you have companies see that remote work is here to stay and they have to? how much space they need versus how many workers are going to return and they have to figure out how much cost they have to cut in terms of the slow down with their growth, with the economy and fears about potential recession. emily: thank you for your
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reporting on this. we will keep following. coming up, take earnings around the corner. we are going to look at what to expect next week from netflix, twitter, and more. all of that coming up. this is bloomberg. ♪ as a main street bank, pnc has helped over 7 million kids develop their passion for learning through our grow up great initiative. and now, we're providing billions of dollars for affordable home lending programs... as part of 88 billion to support underserved communities... including loans for small businesses
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emily: welcome back. we have breaking news, elon musk has responded to twitter's request to expedite the trial
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which a judge granted, setting a date to start for tuesday. elon musk saying he wants that moved to february or later. twitter wants the child to start in september. elon musk saying twitter drag its feet on the deal and is now rushing this trial. i want to bring back ed ludlow. not surprising that elon musk would not want to rush to court on tuesday. ed: most of the lawyers bloomberg has spoken to felt twitter had a pretty good case to hold muska to account to the deal -- musk to account to the deal. the expectation is this will be a protracted legal proceeding. elon musk is accusing twitter of having drag its feet over the negotiation of the deal and now rushing to court. the sticking point for him is -- and what people argue -- is
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twitter was not forthcoming in the timing, frequency, or what they shared on the issue of bots on the platform and he is going to argue that is adverse effect, thus avoiding the deal. emily: we were speaking with a professor earlier who said not surprising that the judge granted this request for a tuesday hearing. what is 20 happen on tuesday will be more surprising. he suggested this trial could be wrapped up by the fall. ed: it is hard to judge how this will go because there is little past president -- precedent. what is fascinating is twitter has earnings friday. and earnings is happening.
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let's talk about what is happening -- there is so much to take on board. twitter reports friday. we start monday or tuesday with netflix. tesla, snap. what these have in common is they have revised guidance. tesla had a difficult quarter with its shanghai plant shutdown. you see how tired i am this friday, look at the following week. we are breathing not just next week, but the week after that. look at the number of companies reporting. we make an interesting point as we look at what the expectation is for this earnings period. the expectation is sales growth. topline growth. part of that is boosted by inflation, part of that is the consumer is held up strongly and that is where we are looking, sales growth is looking good other than for alphabet. if you look at the earnings estimate, those earnings
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expectations have come down. why? you have inflation, higher input costs, higher labor costs. we are focused on what the world looks like and hopefully in the next two weeks, some companies are going to give us an explanation. emily: look at those beautiful graphics. thank you very much. i want to get more in-depth now on the earnings and what we can expect. ben, where are you expecting to see the most pain? >> i am a bit more cautious on consumer centric companies. i think there's a lot of worry that consumers and companies that are more adverse and more consumer focus are going to bear more of the pain here. i'm not sure how much we are going to see in this particular quarter's earnings of pain.
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there they might be seeing some -- companies like snapchat, facebook, twitter that have advertising focused businesses and companies that are trying to go to consumers through those channels, if we see them start to cut back, that will be telling about how much pain we might expect. those that are most subject to a weakening consumer market are the ones that i am more worried about. on the enterprise side, we are not seeing that businesses have cut back to the same degree or spending go down in infrastructure, but that consumer segment is where there's questions and if we do see a little more of a recession, it is going to be more on the consumer facing side. emily: let's start on social media. you have been tweeting about the value of the interest graph which is something tiktok seems to do well versus the social graph.
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you have this background noise with twitter and i wonder if that continues to be a story in itself or if that story can be contagious or contaminate some of the other social media stories we are following. ben: the thing that is interesting about the engagement side -- so consumer agent with social media is going to go up and remain strong. whether or not brands feel like consumer appetite is therefore some of their products, consumers have to cut back on disposable income, i'm not sure it hits things like pcs or smartphones. things that are more luxury products where things they can cut out of their life if they need that disposable income. because of inflation or perhaps because we have issues with the jobs market. i think the engagement space, but that is a metric in terms of consumer engaging with media platforms. if ads cut back, it affects the revenue. the consumers will still be
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there. how they dispose of that income on things that they need or want coming into the holiday season which is where you will see advertisers use those channels is going to be the question. what they started think about the next few quarters will be telling. i don't think we will see the full pain now, but we are aching for a bit more pain on the consumer side and that is where i think the thesis needs to get built out. emily: i recently had the ceo of ibm on. he said he was feeling optimistic about the economy and corporate spending but what he feels pessimistic about is supply and chips issues. take a listen. >> i am actually a bit more pessimistic on that. i think supply chain resilience is a fundamental issue that is
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going to go on for a couple more years. emily: we are going to see a raft of semi results. what are you expecting? ben: this is something we could talk about a long time. a deep web of complex problems. if you look at some of the commentary out of tsmc, noting that they feel their customers have inventory, is going to cause them to put back a little on many actually and some of their investments going forward. many of their customers are sitting on inventory that they need to make products. it is going to look like manufacturing companies like tsmc and the likes of intel and qualcomm might have less than stellar quarters but that is not indicative of demand, it is indicative of the customers cutting back orders because they are sitting on inventory. is this really an issue or how much is this a disguise on the fact that they over ordered
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because of supply chain issues knowing they would have a hard time getting chips? we are going to need that before orders can get placed up again. there's a balancing act that i think most of the semiconductor companies are going to have to navigate while they try to fill orders and help their customers get through the inventory they are sitting on so there orders can come back hoping that demand stays high. emily: thank you for digging into that complex web. always good to have you. coming up, the crypto meltdown sparking more calls for regulation. in particular, bankruptcy regulations. that and more coming up next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: time for our crypto reports, bitcoin up over the last few sessions but all eyes on the bankruptcy of a major crypto lender. the crypto market continues to tumble. our crypto contributor here with more. what is the latest? >> at the end of the day, the question is how are consumers protected not only to the event of a bankruptcy but in the event of larger market stress? you have seen several instances in which customer withdrawals were paused and now you are seeing in the bankruptcy filing
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for celsius, is there a clear roadmap on what happens to customer holdings as certain creditors want to get paid back? you are seeing this issue as celsius has started to pay back other parties in other ways but where do the customers fall at the end of the day when you are thinking about who gets owed what and in what order? emily: this bankruptcy has so much knock on effects including that it could potentially impact bitcoin mining echo sonali: this was an interesting question. part of the answer someone had was, to the extent it was tied to the defi activity, maybe we will think about it but probably not morbidly. a lot of worries about the bitcoin mining subsidiary. if celsius were to sell the business were off load rigs come out does that put more downward
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pressure to prices across the industry? we are going to shift over now and talk about this. thank you for joining us. you shifted gears to talk about -- to focus on optimism for a tough time for the industry, focusing on not just trouble in the pricing, but as prices go down, jobs dry up. you launched a new company that focuses on those jobs and i'm curious as to how many you are seeing. >> if you think of the job market, one of the biggest problems is the global debt to gdp is skyrocketing and everyone focuses on the debt side, how can we stop taking out more debt? but how to grow gdp faster and job creation is a key piece of that. our idea was how to get the best people in the world working on
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the facet economic sector from a speeding growth standpoint in that tends to be the bitcoin and crypto industry. as bit -- as the market goes down, there are companies that are doing hiring freezes or layoffs but they're are still tons of companies that are hiring. in the last 18 months, we have helped 1000 people get a job in the industry and we have been doing corporate training for crypto native firms but also non-crypto native firms and what you are seeing is there some short-term pressure because of price by the most people in the industry are long-term bullish and they continue to invest. sonali: 18 months, that included what was still a bull market in crypto and now we are in a different environment to what extent are those jobs join up and are the jobs that are out there changing to enter a new environment? anthony: if you think about that 1000 people we help to get a
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job, 400 was last year. we have seen it pick up. what you are seeing is there still a lot a venture capital invested in the space, a lot of companies hitting scaling. now they begin to hire. the other thing is there are so many companies that are getting started. there's almost an overwhelming of the market. one of the most interesting parts of the story is not just the aggregate job creation, but it is a brain drain from silicon valley and wall street almost on a daily basis. myself or someone on our team will talk to high-level folks at large corporations and they say, now's the time. they have been thinking about it for a while, they want to make the jump and they need help navigating finding a job. i don't think job creation is slowing down, i think it is just shifting between different types of companies. and fts were hot last year, maybe not -- nft's were hot last
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year, maybe not so much now. still, the job growth is incredible and accelerating. sonali: how did you go to the process of raising money for inflection points? why is peter thiel invested -- interested in more jobs in crypto and his he invested anywhere else that you know of? anthony: the mission of our company, we started 18 months ago and it was not an idea of let's raise money. we started the business and the mission is to accelerate economic growth globally and we were profitable almost medially out of the gate and for 18 months, we have kept our head down and worked and we only took the money because we wanted to write investors around the table. -- the right investors around the table. these are investors who are
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highly sophisticated. they have built large companies before, they have invested in plenty of others. many of them are big proponents of the crypto industry. you mentioned peter thiel. he has been a bitcoin investor for a long time. then there's folks that are from large family offices. these are real investors who understand i've -- understand infrastructure is a key piece in investing in a new sector and while most companies focus on software infrastructure, people is a key piece to it and we think we can build out a niche and scale. sonali: there's a lot of talks about product that might not make it. what projects are you concerned about? are there targets that are worth shying away from? anthony: pretty much all of them. even if you talk to people who
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are big proponents of the industry, they would say the same thing. anytime you get innovation, it requires experimentation. you're seeing experimentation, a lot about ideas, that execution, but also bad market timing if you go to the late 1990's and look at most of those ideas, they were the right ideas, they just did not work in that current iteration, it took 10 years or so before consumer behaviors changed, before more people had internet that was not dial-up, their familiarity, willingness to put their credit card online. these different things had to change. some of that is what we are seeing now. one thing is clear. there are 150 million people around the world that hold bitcoin and bitcoin has cost over from an experiment or could be valuable and i think now what you are seeing, especially given the backdrop of the fiscal policy, is bitcoin has spoken out, it is different from most of the experimentation of other things, and there's folks on
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wall street and in silicon valley and across the world that say bitcoin is here to stay and i agree. sonali: thank you so much for your time. emily: thank you. the bloomberg crypto summit returns july 19. the summit gathers some of the biggest names in the industry to talk about the market turmoil, reg the joy scrutiny, and more. that is starting it: 45 eastern. coming up, can initially start up take up rivian -- take on rivian? we will talk about that next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: time for our technomics segment. there is one ev maker rising
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through the ranks and adjust won an order from walmart, sending its shares soaring. could it take on rivian? let's talk about that and more. ed: that is an amazing chart, 100% gain in seven days? it surprised us. emily: people were writing it off. ed: this is a startup that has struggled to do anything. it has changed strategy a number of times. it has this futuristic camper van looking ev but never has made progress as a stock, it was obliterated since it went public . getting a big order like this from walmart not just on the share reaction, but the company's outlook has changed. emily: you got an inside look at what they have going on. ed: i was off summit a couple
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weeks ago, it is a summit that is cohosted by the walton family and i was walking around and i was like, hold on, isn't that a canoo? it was, it was a prototype. the one behold, a few weeks later, they have this agreement. although there's a lot of caveats. walmart can walk away at any time, 30 days notice, for no reason. that is a worry if you are canoo . the other thing is canoo has not demonstrated it can do anything yet. it is not have a clear strategy. it has various plans in other states. this is a hypothetical right now. emily: aren't they boxing amazon out of buying any of these? ed: you think of amazon and walmart, these are great
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logistics giants. amazon uses multiple brands. walmart has made this bet, but walmart also has an agreement through gm and ford and no one is making any of these at any volume. emily: isn't that the biggest challenge? how are they going to make 4500 of these? ed: rivian is the poster child because they have this order for 100,000 units were amazon. my sources told me they have built 600,000 -- they have built 600 so far. the pace has been disrupted by supply-chain problems. there is competition. it is an interesting market because we are obsessed with the consumer ev but we forget that in the road of moving things from a to b, these commercial giants need other stuff, vans and trucks. emily: it is not a zero-sum game but we will be watching. thank you. enjoy the weekend. that does it for this edition of
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"bloomberg technology." we have great shows next week, we will be across earnings all week long, we will be following that hearing in delaware, twitter v. musk, and matthew ball will be joining us to talk about all things metaverse and more. have a wonderful weekend. this is bloomberg. ♪
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