>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang. ♪

emily: i am emily chang in from san francisco, and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up the next hour, pinterest gets ready, joining us for an exclusive interview with the new ceo joins us to share what he has learned after 30 days on the the job in the face of tough macro conditions and eight changed taco landscape. an outgoing ceo jason gardner is looking for his replacement, as fintech faces rising credit card debt and consumers under pressure. he says he is no longer the right person to run the company for the next phase of growth. and this is now meta's new chief operating office. what he's been called the anti-sheryl sandberg. all that in a moment. first i want to get a look at markets. they seem to rally yesterday,

but maybe a little too far. the fed is on track to stay aggressive about fighting inflation, but what are investors thinking? ed: there is a lot of red on that screen, but equity markets have been higher and then they turned a corner. the nasdaq 100 down 0.7%. it coincided with a push higher in yields, u.s. 10-year yield raising 11 basis points, 2.88%. we are zeroed in on apple, it has such a significant impact on the market given its weighting on the major indices. it has been doing relatively well coming off the june those. look at this terminal chart. we are talking about apple stock, at a record high relative to the s&p 500. the s&p came off its june lows. but it's weighting as a portion of the s&p 500 is also at record

highs. it is having a significant drag on the market. bloomberg reporting on thursday that according to sources, apple has instructed suppliers to prepare to make 90 million handsets this year. so it looks like the handset market may hold up. i am watching revenue notes. strong quarterly sales, three hundred 64 million, but it is actually expecting a wider loss for the year. rome material inflation, supply chain crunch, freight costs. the rivian call starts in the moment, but before i go, happy. emily: thank you. i appreciate you not sharing my age. thank you. [laughter] fintech platform marqeta announcing strong earnings, but news of a regime change made investors anxious.

shares plunged after the credit card issuer and most of the shakeup, the search for a new ceo and coo. joining us is the outgoing marqeta ceo, jason gardner, who is now searching for his successor. unless the story behind this leadership change. why and why now? happy birthday, and thank you for having me and for your continued interest in marqeta. i started succession planning when i took the company public back in june of 2021. it was not something i ever thought about, and then it got intense in january in terms of succession planning. what if you got hit by a bus, who would take company? i talk to other founders fund ceos can step roll, what they were looking for and why they did it. it was really enlightening. i felt that i am someone who loves people, products, and

customers, and finding a ceo who was much better suited for our next phase of growth, building a sustainably profitable company, that combination i thought was really, really powerful than i got excited about it. i spoke with the board and told them what my plan was. i wanted to be very transparent to our employees, customers, and shareholders. they have really excited about this next step. i care deeply about the company. it is what is best for marqeta over the next couple of decades and i truly feel this is the next best step for the business. i am in the role now for six months to a year until we find a new ceo. that really excited about the decision and what is next. emily: why change out the ceo and coo roles at the same time?jason: company organizations want to be flexible and nimble. i have always made decisions about this.

having a hyper growth company, our needs change from time to time. the cro's next, bringing in somebody who is solely focused on the revenue side of the business, oil can be focused on being a ceo and focusing on the day-to-day operations of the the company, and finding the next ceo and, creating a combination between that. i thought that was the next best step for the business. she and i had a conversation. she decided it was best she stepped away. again, we're just excited about this next step. it feels like a weight lifted off. secrets are uncomfortable, and transparency is a -- of who i am, so being able to talk about this publicly is just wonderful. emily: i am curious what advice you have to others who may be

thinking or wondering the same thing. i am sure it is hard to step away from your baby, essentially, but what message we send to other executives out there about, you know, try to figure out if it is the right time. jason: you have to do what is best for your business. you have to do what is best for your shareholders as well. what is the powerful combination that is going to build better, stronger business in the future? i ultimately decided, the combination between a founder who wants to be focused on people, products and customers, and a ceo who wants to be focused on the day to day operations of the business, that is what is best for marqeta. i ultimately felt it was the step i needed to take. it is surprising to a lot of people that i wanted to do that. but i love my baby, who is now a young adult. i felt that having someone else to lead this young adult deeper into the future was the next

cap. so my advice to founders indiscriminately selfless, think about what is best for the company and be transparent about it so people can know your intent as you go into the future. emily: we are in the middle of a difficult macroeconomic environment and we may be headed into a recession. what is your outlook on the fintech environment -- the fintech landscape and the environment that your successor will be walking into? jason: we had a great first half, remain cautious in the second half. you are right, depend on the experts you talk to, we are in a recession, not in a recession, the recession is coming. it is not clear where we are headed. we had 3% year-over-year growth, $1.7 billion in cash. a lot of options, whether it is investing more in the business, and are higher. but there is a lot of uncertainty.

we have a blue-chip base of customers who continue to perform well we are building out more and more business around the world and investing in our product, people, future. emily: i appreciate you joining us. thank you for sharing some of that with us, and we will be watching to see how this shuffle plays out. marqeta ceo, jason gardner. coming up, a conversation with the newly appointed ceo of pinterest. he is with us for an exclusive interview, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: it has been one month

since the executive shuffle at pinterest. last month co-founder ben silbermann handed the reins to bill ready. on his first call as ceo, reddy said he would laid out a plan of action focusing on, quote, helping people go from inspiration to realization." bill ready joins me now. great to have you back on the show. your first 30 days, what has been the focus and how are you shaping that plan of action? bill: it has been a great first met with the team -- first month with the team, for sure. jumped right into it with earnings and some great engagement with our investors. but it has really been inspiring to see the things i had from outside, in terms of pinterest's mission and vision, and how much people really care about it being a positive place on the internet, where people can

go for daily inspiration. looking for things to make, do, buy. it is great to see the great team we have around those things, and momentum the team has built over many years and a lot of exciting things we're working on now. emily: you were running e-commerce at google, you were the coo of paypal, you were at braintree, several times on our show in that role. how did the conversation start with pinterest, and how did you both come to the decision that this was the right call? bill: i admired what ben and the team had built over the years. we had recently been talking about not only how he was thinking about what he wanted for himself, but also what he hoped for for pinterest, and there was a great alignment on those things around the vision for the business. as you touched on in the intro, the opportunity to go from inspiration to realization, i think it is just a really unique thing that doesn't exist in too

many places. finding inspiration and intent in the same platform is really unique and uncommon. as much as there is a tremendous amount of discovery and inspiration, helping people take that all the way to realization will be a great next chapter in where pinterest can go, and of course, making sure to continue on all the great inspiration and discovery that is always the core of what people love about the platform. emily: there was some surprise when ben left. obviously he was a founder and was there for many years. can you give us more insight as to why now is the time to move on? bill: he did an amazing job over the course of 12 years building a business from zero. ben and i spent a lot of time and we have common ideas of where the company can go. so i am excited to continue engaging with him. he is a very engaged and

passionate board member and someone who i continue to spend a lot of time with. and again, he has done an amazing job of building pinterest to what it is today, and it is a great partnership in terms of where we take it going forward. emily: i am a big pinner. it is a super useful product that sits at this very important intersection of social and e-commerce and search. some would say there has not been a lot of innovation or evolution over the last several years. how do you want to better harness that power that pinterest has? bill: two things i would say, one, the team has innovated quite a lot. if you look at the platform today versus where it has been in the past, there is a lot to be really excited about. you have in the shift to video for example, we shared this in our earnings, we now have 10% less of our engagement coming over video, while also staying

really true to what users expect in terms of bringing together great inspirational images and things they are interested in. i think it is a good example of innovating with users. there is also a lot still left to be done. i think that is around, how do you help will harness that inspiration? the great thing about pinterest is that people are not just casually browsing, is not just lean back, people are coming with intent and purpose, coming at a part of their journey where they still haven't yet decided what it is they want to do or to buy. we know they are trying to put together a great outfit or plan a party, or redesign a room, but they are at this moment where they are still trying to figure out, what do i want in that room? what do i want the outfit to be? what do i want the party to look like? it is a really great moment in the user's journey. our platform is unique because

we have an opportunity to take the user from not just putting together that great outfit or great room, but in finding the things i want to buy or put together, or find places to connect with to take the next step in the journey. i think you will see that continue to resonate with users, and with advertisers. you are seeing that play out in the ads business where the combination of inspiration and intent is making pinterest almost-buy for advertisers, even as advertisers are thinking about how they need to be thinking about what they are doing. emily: how do you think your google and payments experience can play here? is the biggest opportunity advertising? is it e-commerce? is the dream to be able to see something on pinterest and diet, or figure out where that pillow came from, or how somebody can make it they want to make it

themselves? bill: yes to each of those. how you put those things together really matters. . if you look at what i think pinterest does really well, it is a curative journey where, yes, there is a lot of great ai and machine learning that is helping put together things that, when you are trying to figure out what it is you want to do, whether it is making or doing or buying, that we bring a lot of great inspiration together on those things. . but it is curated. it is not just ai and ml figuring this out, it is, what is the right set of accessories to go with it? there are people making those associations on the platform, where i think we really stand out, they are quite unique in their ability to bring those things together. so there is an opportunity to bring people from the inspiration, to the realization. there are some superpowers the pinterest platform has that are not just ai and ml, by the

community that are really helping to shape these associations of what, is a great room going to look like in this aesthetic? what is a great outfit, not just a great item. it helps us think about, how do we solve shopping even more than buying? the first 20 years of e-commerce or more solving shopping. not so much buying. if you think about what happened in the physical world, so much more of shopping was about the journey, walking in the bazaar, being inspired. that has not been well solved for in the e-commerce world. we see that a lot already and we can take users harder down the journey. emily: elliot recently took a big stake. what has been your communications with them? what are their expectations? we shared this on our earnings, we both made comments on this, we had collaborative dialogue

with elliot. we share a lot of conviction and vision for where the business can go. it has been a good, engaging dialogue. the investor community, i have spent a lot of time with in past lives, and that community knows that i really care about making sure we have good engagement with a what investors and listening and understanding, just as i want to listen and understand all of our stakeholders. so, we had a good engaging dialogue with elliott, just as we will continue to have a good and engaging dialogue with all of our investors. it is good to have a sophisticated investor that shares conviction about the business and the future of our business. emily: pinterest initially led the way for creating a better workplace culture. the former engineer, tracy, was really active. but since then,

pinterest has been accused of gender discrimination or race discrimination. employees staged a walkout. over the last 30 days, what has been done, and what is left to do? bill: these are the events of a few years ago. the company has made tremendous progress, i have spent time of the board talking about before joining. i think how much ban and the team and the board all really leaned in on not just wanting to take actions on these things, but to really start to lead the way. so as we think about diversity and inclusion, as we think about how we build a really positive community, one of the things that i think is so inspiring to me about pinterest is that, it is a very positive place on the internet where people are going to be inspired and uplifted. it is not a place for people going to shout at their neighbor about their politics or those kinds of things, it is a place

for people to be lifted up and inspired and say, of course we want to create a community inside the company that matches that i think is a great combination. i think there has been tremendous progress on that, but something that i think for any company, that work is never done and there is always more to do. it will continue to be a priority for me and the team. emily: pinterest has some prime san francisco real estate, at the break we were looking at videos of inside the office right now. but in san francisco, there is concern that the heyday of office culture is over. . how are you balancing work from home versus people coming back into the office, and reinvigorating an office culture? bill: number one, it has been great to be in the office with the pinterest team. great to see people back on the office and collaborating again. it is a good to see more of that happening. at the same time, we are in a new world that is very different

from what it was pre-pandemic. hybrid work and remote work are really important parts of how you think about building a highly talented and engaged employee base, and there are real opportunities. if you think about what that means in terms of attracting more diverse talent for example, you can reach into new geographies or people balancing different things in their work-life balance. there is no one-size-fits-all. i think it is really fantastic in terms of how we not only make sure that we are meeting our are opening new doors as to how we attract great talent and where that great talent can come from. emily: ok. bill ready, ceo of pinterest on the first 30 days, thank you. we appreciate it. coming up, why apple is putting a software update on hold. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: few other -- a other stories were watching, the pentagon has certified spacex to use reusable boosters on the rockets to launch a secret spy satellite. this may give spacex a temporary edge in its latest competition against the boeing venture. the first launch will take place sometime from october through december. and the world's largest asset manager is making a significant move into crypto markets. blackrock offering its first ever investment product in bitcoin. the new trust will track the price of the currency. the firm says it is responding to demand from large institutional clients. coming up, bumble's rocky road ahead with competition from match and tinder.

what is in store for them? we will discuss. and will profile the meta's new coo, sheryl sandberg successor, like her, next. this is bloomberg. ♪ if you wake up thinking about the market and want to make the right moves fast... get decision tech. for insights on when to buy and sell. and proactive alerts on market events. that's decision tech. only from fidelity.

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mary: welcome back to "bloomberg knology." i am emily chiang in san francisco.

bumble no tumbling after it lowered its full-year revenue guidance, taking a hit from the war in ukraine and stiff competition from the likes of match and tender. i went tubing -- i want to bring in jessica, an analyst. what are we seeing bumble trouble here? >> hi, emily. one of the big reasons bumble is trading off today is because of the expectations of building into the print. if you think about the internet universe, bumble stock has been the best performing in a stock market that is tough, driven by macro. so as we were heading into the year, expectations were for a strong quarter and a strong guide, and it is bringing it back to that. fundamentally, we don't think it has changed. the guide is lower, but a lot of it is due to fx.

consumer demand is holding up, seems like they are largely resilient, and the lower guide is due to some product changes that they are pushing of. emily: bumble is unique in that it has another dating update acquired in europe which is also under pressure, and there is also competition from match and tinder. what are the challenges from these other players? shweta: the best comp for bumble is hinged, in terms of the demographics and the overlap across the user base they have. what came out during the earnings call that their ceo mentioned was that, bumble remains the number one downloaded app in the major markets, the u.s., canada and the u.k., and also in germany, where tinder has a large presence. that tells but there executing pretty well, to the degree that they are the most downloaded app

, implying market share gains across their major markets. as we look at what is ahead, we would compare hinge and how that is trading in newer markets, non-markets, versus umbel. so far, bumble is doing really well. hinge is expected to be a $300 million business, growing 50%. bumble is about $1 billion in business. so it is a bigger scale, growing 30% year-over-year, and they are also executing well. emily: a couple other companies that you cover, i want to talk to you about etsy, reporting better-than-expected results a couple of weeks ago, despite the difficult macroenvironment. why do they seem to be bucking the trend? shweta: etsy is very unique in a lot of ways, not just in the types of items they sell, less

commoditized, things you might not necessarily have a direct comparison with, that you could go to amazon and find the same elsewhere, that is not the case so much for etsy. what is really helping etsy is they have a sticky seller base, a seller base that does not sell it necessarily on amazon or ebay as much as craft fairs. five employees or lower sellers who have a side jobs that have very talented skills. they also have a very sticky buyer base in terms of the retention and the people that come over and over again on etsy driving purchase frequency. as that becomes more habitual, that is what is sustaining etsy. the big question for them going forward is, in a macro environment where consumer spend is shifting away from physical goods to travel and services, what happens to their growth rate.

emily: finally, peloton earnings are coming up in a few days. the rivalry between peloton and soulcycle, some call it desperate. it is certainly entertaining. but they are doing a lot of different things to try to get riders and exercisers back. what is your take on peloton and its new leadership, and its chances for a real turnaround? shweta: well, i have confidence in the new coo. the challenge right now that peloton is facing, is it seems like they have a lot of fires to put out. competition is one, but intentionally and operational, the biggest challenge they have is the inventory drawdown, which is, they have a lot of inventory to sell, they may have over-produced, and they have cash issues, which means they have to show positive free cash by the end of next year. while there is competition, the biggest thing will be execution.

i have confidence in their area. -- in barry. emily: we will of course the following peloton earnings, out in a few days. thank you. now i went to pivot to meta, and sheryl sandberg successor, javier olivan. though he may be so different than her, you might call him the anti-sheryl sandberg. he rarely speaks publicly or even post to facebook or instagram, but he has had a hand in all of the smoke to locate major competitive battles and acquisitions. it was him who expanded the service to unprecedented size and power. for more of this i want to bring in current worker -- in kurt wagner, who just did a deep dive into the new coo. >> his personality is very different in the role he's going to play.

cheryl, we see her all the time. she is a best-selling author, she is speaking publicly, shaking hands with politicians, or at least she used to be. javier is none of those things. he is incredibly influential, but even people inside his company to know who is. he is a different personality. here he is stepping into a similar title and the same job sheryl sandberg had at meta, and it is a huge job given everything they're going through. emily: what does that mean for meta culturally? if people inside the company don't know who he is, does that matter? kurt: it kind of reestablishes or further establishes mark zuckerberg as the main guy. before, even though it mark i think has been more forward as the face of the company the last couple of years, he was still -- it was still a mark zuckerberg and sheryl sandberg show.

now you have mark and not really anyone else. we hear from nick clegg quite a bit on policy stuff, but i think this further establishes mark as the face of what everything facebook is going, not just the products. emily: facebook's valuation has been cut in half over the last six months. can javier olivan along with mark zuckerberg turn it around? kurt: i am not want to bet against mark zuckerberg. but there is a real crisis of the business for the company, but really the first time ever. this has always been up and to the right. never have they had to deal with something like revenue growth decline, which they had for the first time last quarter. so they are really pivoting and betting big right now. it is kind of what mark zuckerberg has said is the future, the metaverse. that is still years away. so if they will be turning this thing around, it will have to be

that javi can figure out some way to boost the ad business. which is not small by any means, but it certainly not experiencing the kind of growth we have come to see from them the last couple of years. emily: it will be interesting to watch this play out. kurt wagner, thank you, as always. meantime, ceos are increasingly turning to social media to share their feelings about layoffs. in june, the ceo of klarna took heat after linkedin posted the names and contact details of hundreds of employees who were let go. he said he was trying to get them jobs. others thought it was a little tone deaf. now, another post by the ceo of hybrid social is going viral. he wrote, "my employees would still have jobs if i had made better choices." he posted a selfi crying. some thought the post was a little cringey, but he embraced

the backlash and dubbed himself the crying ceo. then there was this interview with redfin ceo who had this to say when i asked about layoffs. >> we laid off 6% of our workforce and i'm the one accountable for that. i feel so ashamed about it. i was so blue, i still am. but it is what we had to do to run a profitable business, and now i think we feel more optimistic about the future. but we are still running on a knife's edge. emily: coming up, we will take a deep dive into the world of crypto mixers. what are they? and how could they be the culprit in the newest money laundering schemes? that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: time now for over crypto report. today we are diving into crypto mixers, a service that mixes different streams of potentially identifiable crypto-currencies so that, a owners account and history is hidden, making the interaction more anonymous and harder to trace. here is the catch, while it is great for privacy, it has become a tool for global money laundering and cybercrime. recently, tornado cash was sanctioned by the u.s. treasury after it was used to launder more than $7 billion in digital currency in 2019. -- since its creation in 2019. let's talk about the debate, which has erred in the crypto community. chain analysis see oh along with

bloomberg's on katie greifeld. thank you for draining. michael, do you think the accusation allegation here is failure, that these mixers have become kind of dangerous? michael: to a large extent. what we have seen over many years that i have been in the crypto space is that the majority of the funds that go into mixers originate from largely criminal activity. so to that extent, it is true. of course there are other purposes for mixers that can be viable, that as the entire purpose of a mixer is anonymity, avoid criminal activity to go through them. katie: administration officials have described tornado cash as the go to mixer for criminals. does the data that you have support that? michael: north korea is known to be one of the biggest problems in their crypto space in terms

of organized crime and sanctions invasion. they have stolen billions of dollars of crypto over the years, and they have used tornado cash. if you look at ransomware, that has not been using tornado cash. it is typically not tornado cash . emily: can you paint a bigger picture for us? how bad has cybercrime actually been this year? michael: cybercrime has been in decline. last year, for example, in general, transaction volume grew five times. cybercrime doubled. it means you are now moving from percentages to basis points and counting criminal activity in the crypto space. the same time, the numbers are

really big. just this year, we have seen a new kind of hack between different blockchains getting hacked. that is largely been north korean hackers behind that. clearly a lot about things are happening and it's big, but relatively small compared to the rest of the activity in crypto, really small. katie: this has been such a fascinating story to watch, because a few weeks ago, one of the tornado cash founders told bloomberg news that, because of it it's smart-contract base, written on decided by prewritten codes, we can't enforce sanctions against it. we know that the treasury department disagrees. but for developers out there right now, writing and developing code how can they , make sure that what they are creating complies with sanctions? michael: we actually have a sanction article on the blockchain that you can write into a smart contract. then you're compliant in the sense that you check. however, that is not the full

picture. you also need to check for anything else that could be related to that, and put other measures in place. katie: it feels like a lot of these hats are happening on cross blockchain bridges. i am wondering what about gauges specifically makes them vulnerable? michael: cambridge is basically of -- a bridge is basically a place that you buffer or stall funds when you move them between blockchain's. i may want to buy one and to do that because basically hot wallet sitting in a system of the internet then i get something else on the other side. then i get something else on the other side. but now you can have billions of dollars in the wallet. that makes it a honey pot. when i have been written through different white papers, typically it has been a very healthy design and something that would be extremely hard to break into. but last year, we saw huge

growth in crypto and everybody wanted to be first to market. so sometimes the limitations in the basic security around servers and other things that were running these hot wallet had been less good, and that has been exploited, mainly by north korea. emily: fascinating corner of the crypto universe, thank you for helping us explore it. michael gronager, ceo of chainalysis, and bloomberg's on katie greifeld. we appreciate it. next, rivian just reporting its earnings results. is it a miss or a hit? bloomberg's ed ludlow will tell us. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> apple is delaying its next major ipad software rate, ipad os 16, a about a month, from

september to october. apple made the decision for a number of reasons, including is still buggy stage manager multitasking interface that is still buggy and in order to link the launch closer to ventura. still, it is an unusual move since shifting the lunches to the fall in 2011, apple has released its new software updates simultaneously each year around september. by scattering the releases, users may find some issues around compatibility with cross-device futures like retracting and editing messages in a message, the new photo library, and the new feature for transferring facetime calls between iphones and ipads. it will also make it harder for developers to launch apps that run on both the ipad and iphone that require new api's and features. regardless, it was still the right move.

the stage manager is still quite buggy. i don't find it particularly intuitive, and it is not compatible with most ipads and many third-party apps on the app store. the feature clearly needs some more polish. in complaints from consumers on the stage manager, will now probably no longer overshadow the earlier launch of the iphone 14. those new iphones along with apple watch series 8 models are coming in september, alongside ios 16 and watch ios 9, which are not delayed i am mark gurman. emily: don't forget, you can subscribe to mark's weekly "power on" newsletter at bloomberg.com. now onto the world of electric vehicles. rivian cutting its annual earnings forecast, saying it would have a larger than guided loss on inflationary lows. it did reaffirm its delivery forecast. our ed ludlow here was more. what is going on? ed: it's interesting because we

have followed this company for a few years. and it was the first quarter of meaningful sales, 300 $64 million. real company, sells cars. it is a reality check -- will come to how difficult this is. and with inflation and raw materials, they are basically saying actually, we are not going to lose 4.75 billion dollars this year, we are going to lose $5.5 billion and pullback overspending, because things are tough out there. emily: is demand still strong? from what i understand, they have a super long wait list, right? ed: demand is really strong. they are what we call supply constraints. they can't build the vehicles fast enough. what's interesting on the earnings call, he said he felt the product still had pricing power. they raised prices in march anyway which stock was a bit of a scandal because they raised it even for existing reservation

holders, but the idea they could raise further is a show that people still want this product. what's on your screen, the model is still at over $70,000. imagine going up from there. that shows confidence that the demand is good. emily: it is a new company, but what is your sense of how rivian has weathered supply challenges versus a tesla and the other companies out there? ed: rivian doesn't have the scale of tesla and that's part of the problem. they're having to go to their suppliers and say, look, we can do this, give us the chips that we need. look at our shiny factory. because those chip suppliers are also supplying many others. the shares have been bouncing on and around throughout, and they were down than up and there is an element of relief. lucid had earnings and they cut their forecast for the second time this year because they could not get hearts. rivian reaffirmed its guidance

to build 25,000 this year. even though it's tough, they are sticking to what they said they could do. emily: what is your sense of whether this is just growing pains? will they become a true competitor to a tesla? ed: they certainly project confidence. they have this very talented cfo, claire mcdonough, former wall street banker. she talks cfo talk. she does hint that things could improve the second half of this year. the inflation act could help them a lot. not just in consumer ev's, they make the vans for amazon and their hope is to sell vans to other fleet operators as well. so, growing pains, i guess. emily: of all of the e.v. makers that you cover, which in his best poised to weather the storm and top environment? ed: all of them. general motors and ford are demonstrating -- ford, more so -- that they have the effect ring experience to make it work there transitioning from gas to ev. rivian, they have $15 million on

-- $15 billion left on their balance sheet. they are laying off, cutting costs and pennypinching. they are acknowledging how hard it is, resisting the urge to oversell themselves. so, yeah, let's see how it goes. emily: ed ludlow, thank you. that does it for this edition of " bloomberg technology." friday, we have the ceo of posh mark. ed will be filling in for me. don't forget to check out our podcast forever you get your podcasts. i'm emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪

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