>> from the heart of were innovation, money, and power

provided, this is bloomberg technology with emily chang. emily: i am emily chang in san francisco on this is bloomberg technology. social media executives on the hot seat in capitol hill. current and former employees from youtube, meta and tiktok, asked questions about privacy and misinformation. the question remains how do regulators get ahead of a rapidly evolving social media landscape? you have more on that in a moment. plus the ethereum merges closing in. what does it mean for the blockchain and crypto landscape at large? that, later this hour. the trial of travel mitten, is heating up with a former contract turning whistleblower telling the jury he made 600 thousand dollars by contributing

information to the shorter word that heard milton's downfall. first i want to get a look at the market, tech stocks rebounding, outperforming the broader market coming a day after the biggest selloff in more than a two years. hotter than expected inflation data makes next week's fed meeting that much more consequential. ed, i have released today. ed: it was a bit of tug of war in the market today. everyone is trying to make sense of what the inflation print means. the nasdaq 100 is not performer among major embassies. semiconductors doing well. it was a soft come up more than 1%. if there was an area of weakness, it was bitcoin, which holds below the $20,000 level which had breached any for hours ago. we are thinking about what happens next. look at this terminal chart. the policy sensitive to year continues to push it sealed up throughout wednesday session.

you see the big jump in the yield, two-year on tuesday. this is where it is all playing out. this is where we are keeping our ahead of the the fed meeting. in terms of the key movers there's a big news cycle going on in the background. forget there's a lot of movers. tesla, one of the best performers despite negative headlines, the first that there is a lawsuit that hit tesla claiming it deceived car owners about its self-driving capabilities. reports out of germany that an expansion of their factory near berlin has been put on hold. interesting to see pressure on some social media stocks as well. former executive speaking to senators about what they think needs to happen in the regulatory landscape, how often are we having this conversation? it's hard to draw a cause relationship in the market. a pocket of weakness from social media names. emily: that is -- has been a

pattern. for the first time as ed mentioned, top executives in charge of operations for mental, youtube twitter and tiktok, have been testifying on capitol hill. four they were questioned, a former executive -- before they were question a former executive testified about prioritizing growth versus moderation. they were all before the senate hearing about online extremism and user protections. many of the answers from the current employees were open-ended. take a listen to this back-and-forth between senator rob portman and tiktok's ceo. >> can you make the commitment that i just asked you to ask that you will commit to cutting all data to china and any other party located in china? >> what i can commit to is the final agreement with the u.s. agreement was satisfied all national security concerns. >> what you will not make a commitment to agree to what i

have now twice asked you of? >> given the confidentiality, i will not be able to talk specifically about that agreement. >> masking if you will make a commitment today --i am asking if you'll make a commitment today? emily: alex, let's start with the big takeaways not the least of which was the exchange there, with senator rob portman. >> the exchange was not the only testy exchange she had. another republican also questioned her, basically voicing what we have seen a continuation of concerns from republicans as to whether or not the company will give any data to the chinese government. she is unequivocably continued to say no we will not. but she will not go as far as to say that they will cut off all data. how these hearing seem to be going lately, the conversation has been wide-ranging.

we have executives from facebook, twitter and youtube. the questions have ranged from responses to some of the allegations we heard this morning, but the companies prioritize growth over everything, including safety, also to getting specific in the case of twitter, asking jake sullivan over at twitter whether or not he would commit to saying the company did not misrepresent a -- misrepresent information. the panel is ongoing, as we speak. but i'm sure we will see a range of topics. emily: well, david, to that point, even more interesting than hearing the executives testify was a hearing the former executive testified at the prehearings. what do you make of the concerns they raise? >> well, it was very meaningful. it was meaningful not just because they were critics but

because they are such deeply informed critics who were former insiders. both the executives from twitter and facebook were among the highest ranking engineering people in the company. in the case of twitter he was head of engineering. these are people who are now telling the senators that this information is not a priority for these companies user growth and user engagement is always prioritized in systems management and design and that is why the problem exists. they also were very emphatic that there are tools that could be implemented by government that could require these companies to change that. but they need the incentives from government otherwise they're never going to change. emily: let's talk about that. we have been having hearings for several years now. regulation has yet to catch up. given the speed at which social media moves and the lack of bead

regulation moves, how much do you think they're going to push the envelope on a galatian? --on regulation? >> even though the intelligence of questioning at congress has increased, today's hearings a show that the senators are significantly more informed and probing intellectually when they talk to these leaders of the tech companies. in reality, the disagreements between the two parties in terms of what the harms are, and the general ambivalence, even among angry senators and congresspeople about whether they really want to rein in these services is going to mean that in the u.s., we are not going to see meaningful regulatory change in of your future. europe will continue to be in the lead. that is a good thing, at least somebody's doing it. emily: to us about the responses from the companies today.

i am sure by this point these hearings, it seems like their strategy is improving. >> it is a little bit. you do see them at least seeming like their wanting to play ball to a certain extent. i want to highlight something, in terms of the tension between of the two partisan groups of the senators and how the companies are coping. one piece that the republicans and senate have been fixating on is the idea of content moderation and what that means. we have seen a lot of questioning from republican senators trying to get to the bottom of why certain content in regards to some ideas around covid, to ideas around election, why that content was removed from the platform and what went into the content moderation choices and criticism and

allegations from the senators that the companies are operating as partisan. the executive today from youtube, facebook, they were able to come in and say, look we defer to a lot of our third-party fact checkers. these folks are pretty adept and sidestepping questions for answers that feel cumbrian's of. they leaned in and said they are trying to work with people who tech themselves and remain bipartisan. that is an important point in this ongoing political debate as to what happens next out of these hearings. the republicans seem to be very fixated on some of these issues around content moderation and china, whereas the democrats are leaning into some other ideas, like pushing for further controls and questions around the algorithm. seem to be raising the level of conversations and the quantity of executives going out to washington. but it has round and progress to

a slower pace. emily: this is coming a day after twitter's whistleblower testified on capitol hill. let's take a quick listen to what more he had to say. what is the role of government versus the companies when it comes to regulation? take a listen. >> it took me maybe 30 minutes to reach out to an employee and say what do we know about this person? it only took that person maybe 10 minutes to get back to me and said, ok here's who they are, this is the address that they live, this is where they are physically at this moment, they are on this phone. we know their phone number, we also know the other accounts they have tried to set up on the system. we know who they are on the other social as well. emily: that's amazing how much

you can learn about an individual user, as any twitter employee. what were your big takeaways from the hearing yesterday? and the potential repercussions, not just for twitter but for all of social media? >> what he was just saying about the ability of these companies to know incredibly detailed information about individuals is highly important. frankly the thing that i think was most significant about the hearing is the idea that he was so emphatic in insisting on chinese government and other foreign entities have implanted spies inside twitter and that he had evidence of that in the company was not even that concern about rooting them out. this for me as a longtime observer of facebook and social media, has been a serious concern. i expect that will be a big issue going forward. emily: wouldn't it be a bigger issue for tiktok?

>> yeah. i think it will be. the line of questioning we saw today, one of the senators went into to talk'-- tiktok's ceo, asking if any of the employees had any known affiliation with the chinese coming is party. she pushed back saying i don't know the political affiliation of any of my employees. but then, also informed the panel that none of the strategic decision-makers have any associations. it is a nonanswer but i bet that will continue to be on the minds of u.s. legislators. emily: very, very consequential stuff. alex barinka, david kirkpatrick, lots to continue to unpack here, thank you for joining us. ok, coming up, how twitter's chair of the board is handling elon musk's attempt to cancel the $44 billion deal. this is bloomberg.

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emily: is also the inventor of the chairman of the board at the twitter. a major player in trying to push that $44 billion with the elon musk to go through, joining me now, the person who profiled at role in this deal. he has been a guest on the show many times. he has an out front executive.

we have not heard a lot from him since taking over the chair board role at twitter. what have you learned from your reporting on what he is doing behind the scenes? >> the thing that keeps coming up for us is this idea that you would be hard-pressed to find people more dissimilar in their public space and elon musk and bret taylor. we have a situation where elon is posting trollish things and bret is trying things very by the book. chairman's boards are always critical and even more so here, bret taylor has so much experience and dealmaking in the past. particularly since, there's been a lot of upheaval at twitter. he has been critical in the situation. he has been known to work well with strong personalities.

what we are seeing is whether that has extended to his relationship with elon. emily: twitter's peiter zatko, but he had to say about twitter's board is not very flattering at the hearing, sing when presented with security concerns, twitters boards it did nothing. does that make bret taylor look unfavorable? >> i don't think so. the way that he has viewed this is through a phrase he has defined to twitter employees many times. he has said that my job here is to get the best feel i can. what's interesting is this is somebody who has managed to come out of every situation looking like he got a good deal, looking like he was a good business player. with twitter he may have found himself in a no win situation. if he succeeds in court in

october, he sold the company to someone who doesn't want the company. even if he settles, the company has been through the ringer and will probably get sued by shareholders. it's going to be a tough situation for the board and for bret taylor. emily: really interesting profile you did. bret taylor. you can read more of brody's story on bloomberg.com. we'll hear from a top executive from amazon and a downturn from another side of the world. this is bloomberg. ♪

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temperature of an e-commerce company and a fintech landscape in latin america with pedro arnt he is the ceo of mercadolibre, one of latin america's largest company -- countries -- companies. thank you so much for joining us. mercadolibre is referred to as the amazon of latin america. i'm curious of your outlook, given the economy, record inflation, how is that impacting your outlook and your customers? >> hey, emily, thanks for having me. a similar situation to inflation across the region as the u.s. two contrasting elements are, first of all, latin america is historically a region with higher inflation. we have spanned the countries where inflation is running at 60% like argentina. so, both the consumer and companies and managers are more custom to cost -- more custom to

cost, and managing their businesses through inflationary times. it's a contrast to developing markets where you guys had grown accustomed to inflation. the second piece is, because we are in an earlier stage of e-commerce penetration, many of the pandemic gains are not be given back, now that consumers are moving back offline. continue to see, as we look into h2, sustained growth rates similar to how we entered the year in terms of consumer online spent and how much are businesses are growing. emily: so, given all of that and coming out of a pandemic where, for a company like amazon, business was booming and now it is pulling back a bit, what is your outlook for growth? >> sustained growth, similar to what we saw in the second

quarter, we had revenue growth north of 50% due to princi adjusted. because -- constant currency adjusted. internet commerce is still high, across most of our markets. we are still in the phase were there still significant window behind our sales. so we haven't really changed our outlook for h2 growth, a similar trajectory to what we are the second quarter. optimistic about the business and continuing to ride of the revolution of consumers moving online both for commerce and their digital finance throughout latin america. emily: we are always fascinated with the logistics of companies. i understand you are looking at expanding your electric vehicle fleet significantly. how much bigger will it be and

what countries will the bulk of this expanded fleet go to? >> one of the things we have had to do to solve e-commerce and be able to become the e-commerce fleet across the entire region was logistics. it was one of the big points to the development of e-commerce. as a consequence, we built up the largest and most efficient logistics network in most of the countries where we operate. one of the less positive impacts of that is that that has significantly increased our carbon footprint. we are committed to attacking that had on through the transformation of most of our fleet over the long run to electric vehicles. we raised about $400 million last year in sustainable bond, a significant portion of that is to be able to finance the transformation. we have committed to another 500 electric vehicles before the end

of the year, that would take the fleet this year alone to over a thousand vehicles. that is just a portion of what we need to do for the long run. part of the commitment around the bond was to try to transform about 10,000 of those ev's over the next three to five years. so, that is what we are working on. right now, demand is outstripping supply. so there's a lot of commercial agreements and business development that we need to continue to carry out, to make sure that we can receive commitment for those 10,000 or ideally more ev's in the coming years. emily: interesting. last, quick question. obviously you have a huge credit business. i'm curious how you think the downturn will impact that. do you think that means there is more potential for fall or more nonperforming once? >> credit is a cyclical business. we are encouraged by the quality

of our underwriting, it's been very good. whatever deterioration we have been seeing in the books was deterioration in line with what we had anticipated at the moment. so, that has been priced in. the overall profitability of those credit books continues to perform within expectations, despite a bit of a macro dan -- downturn that hits npl's. emily: thank you so much for giving us a snapshot on what is happening on the other set of the world. pedro arnt cfo of mercado libre. an outlook may have seemingly changed overnight, after tuesday's selloff. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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emily: welcome back to bloomberg

technology turning back to m&a, august's yields went to tech, media telecom. m&a activity is down, significantly in december. according to s&p global market intelligence, let's talk about this in more with stephan feldgoise head of global m&a add goldman sachs -- at goldman sachs. thank you both for joining us. you couldn't been a better position to tell us what the deal is. obviously we are heading into a significant economic downturn, there's been a slowdown in m&a. is there rebound before the end of the year was that a long ways off? --or is that a long ways off? >> just to level setting give your perspective on last year versus this year, last year was extraordinary. we saw about 4 trillion of activity overall in the m&a market. this year it is about 3 trillion. think about 30%, 40% down, but

also from a transaction level. many of the foundation pieces that drove the m&a market are intact. we think about equity capital looking for opportunities, private equity, you're looking about -- at corporations looking to position themselves strategically for the long terms, something we saw very strong and last year coming out of covid. there's reasons to think about drivers of strategic and corporate and private equity m&a activity. you need to be balanced and guarded, that at the end of the year, it is pretty close to the five-year average, maybe a bit above. 2021 was an exceptional year. >> me pick up on that. -- let me pick up on that. we would be down at least 30% or 40%. i guess the obvious question that raises his what is slowing it? is it just interest rates? is it because we are late cycle? >> i think there's a lot of things. it's late cycle, there's global

volatility that we see everyday. m&a is driven by ceo confidence. that is the number one confidence -- driver. there is interest rate increases, inflation global instability that have caused people to slow down a bit. it doesn't mean the backlog of versus the private equity portfolio companies need to be sold any different. it's a question of when and when with those come to market. >> that's a shift. the ceo point agree with, but they have been able to see through this volatility before and all of this uncertainty that came out of that. what is it now going on that has made ceos say, we are going to pull the trigger. that in the market, we have seen a slowdown, we have seen of the big deals with a higher risk appetite. >> there's been a number of large transactions this year. but, if you are ceo, we talked about the confidence issue, you're still looking you're still talking, discussing with

your board the timeline to execute to closing that it becomes more complicated. you are seeing a pause. back to those fundamental drivers, the dialogue is still there. if we look at the new mandate checks that come into goldman sachs, those are running at levels consistent with of the beginning of this year and at various periods of what we saw in 2021. >> we certainly could be and i think it is more of a question of one. the interest rates have an effect. i cannot sit here and say that is going to be fourth-quarter or first-quarter next year. a lot of those drivers remain in place. i think it's a question of when and not if. we are seeing a balance and a bit of caution in ceos now. emily: i'm curious if you are seeing much buyer's remorse. we saw handshakes on big deals at the end of last year and the beginning of this year, thinking

about twitter and elon musk. now, him trying to get out of that deal. there's also some speculation from twitter side that it is because the market and the conditions have changed. what do you think? >> goldman sachs wouldn't comment on the twitter situation. but in general we have seen institutional investors and boards plotting their management teams from doing strategic transactions and looking to put in place foundations on for the next year but for the next 5, 20, 30 years. they have very much supported that. we have not seen widespread fires remorse for any large transactions that have been announced in the several years -- buyer's remorse for any large transactions that have been announced in the several years. >> okta was a bit about the regulatory environment -- talk to us a bit about the regulatory environment. as it relates to traditional antitrust and a big tech.

i wonder what your clients are saying to you about that and what it has done to their appetite and what advice you can give them in terms of pulling the trigger on some of these more complex deals. >> regulatory has been a factor in every administration for many decades. it's one of many factors we have spent with our clients and boards on. it is one of many factors. there has been larger tech activity. so, it's not stopping tech boards from thinking about what is the right strategic visioning. is it relevant? sure, absolutely. it's not different from past administrations in terms of how you think about regulatory being one of many factors. >> one the opportunities for buyers at the moment is the foreign-exchange arbitrage, u.s. corporate is looking at opportunities, how attractive is europe and the u.k.? >> currency has moved dramatically, as we have seen.

what i would say is cross-border has been one of the areas that is less active. courtesy could help that but, it is one of many issues. covid was a big quell, on people meeting face-to-face which is an important part of doing deals. you have not seen a big resurgent -- surgeons across borders -- was surgeons across borders. -- you have not seen a big resurgence across borders. i'm not seen a big factor in cross-border m&a. emily: i wonder if you think that could change, especially going into next year, if the dollar remain strong, and where you do see, in what sectors, whether it is a cybersecurity, social media, artificial intelligence, where you think m&a could pick up if and when it does? >> technology is pervasive. its not just tech to tech murders it is industrial

knology, consumer technology -- it's going to affect every industry. when you think about the most active industry, health care, technology, industrials, big parts of it are the technology components of big industry. i expect that to remain strong but you have to look much broader at core technology were anything about technology's impact on the m&a market. emily: goldman sachs had -- head of global m&a stephan feldgoise, thanks for giving us a global view today. and our bloomberg reporter. it's the countdown to the ethereum merge, will be joined by dragonfly capital partner to talk about how high the stakes are. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> the ethereum merge is a big story, that gives energy to the state. >> proof of stake is a big step for ethereum. it makes the network more secure. it's using less energy and ready to be more scalable. >> there will not be any more mining, ethereum energy

consumption will go down. it will go from being a big problem to not a problem at all. >> you have a productive asset. in the past you can hold it, now you can stick it in our deals on it. that is going to be a turning point for ethereum. >> we have been much more excited for ethereum than bitcoin. >> personally i am really in love with ethereum. >> i don't think a move to proof of stake is a great thing for ethereum in the short run. >> this upgrade does not have a technical glitch. >> to be as smooth, as your iphone or laptop, but as upgrading its operating system overnight. >> ethereum has been promising proof of stake since they started. wake me up when the transition happens. emily: thoughts are many guests across bloomberg television about the upcoming merge. i want to bring in tom schmidt

from dragonfly capital. our very own crypto contributor, sonali basak. we think it is going to happen in the next 24 hours. are you expecting a y2k situation where we think it is going to be a big deal but nothing is really changing? or will this have a dramatic impact on the current landscape? >> i think it's not going to be like that, in businesses have been -- a point to this upgrade. what we're waiting for is ethereum making a big show to do its upgrade as well. we are expecting it to happen in seven hours. someone may want to call, and wake him of then. everyone is excited. it's the talk of the town. i think it's a general consensus that this is not only a massive upgrade for ethereum, proof of work to proof of stake, what an

incredible upgrade for it is an asset. there will be a 90% reduction in emissions, making it much rarer and turning it into a productive asset. people can stake it to secure the network, earn yields and fees and it is being burnt as transactions are going through making it deflationary as well. it's a great until of upgrades making ethereum is a network, safer, more sustainable, a better asset, and pave the road map for the scale ability. ashes scalability -- scalability. sonali: do you think staking is a business becomes a risk at some point given the regulatory concerns about it? what that impact what this new model really looks like in the ability? >> business has come up more in terms of these tornado cash opec

sanctions over a month ago. so far, the guidance would be that, if you run a validator, if you are a miner, you're not responsible for the types of transactions that are processing, you are a neutral entity. you are in ifp, where they are not responsible to inspect and monitor all the packages they process. that may change in the future. i suspect it will not. it is something we are monitoring and looking at, coming out of the regulatory pipe. i think, one nice thing about the upgrade is it does make the process of securing the network invalidation more accessible to average people. most people are not going to be ethereum miners or it out massive rigs in rural areas. but now the people who own it can stake it and earn a bit of yield as well as make the network or secure. sonali: what do you think about

it relative to bitcoin? i want to ask you in terms of valuation and usage and culturally, you see a lot of people splitting off, spending one chain or the other. i am wondering what you think it does to the community. does ethereum become more dominant? >> proof of stake is not all roses. there is concern that there is this rich get richer type of fact that if you own ether, you can get more. the only way to earn more is to buy some ether. at the same time, there is concern that there will be vulnerability -- phone abilities or bugs. -- vulnerabilities or bugs. some investors will still prefer bitcoin and its inertness and the fact that it does not change. it does what it says and it will probably never change, unless there is a massive upgrade. what we have seen, this is a

technology, as well as the top of -- type of monetary asset. in the long run, technology that is able to iterate and operate will win over technology that cannot. when i talked entrepreneurs and investors, most of them are excited about building on ethereum or their smart contract platforms. emily: talk a lot about how this might impact ethereum. i wonder what you think the repercussions will be for other blockchain's? >> a lot of other blockchain's, smart contract platforms run on some form of roof of stake. ethereum -- proof of stake. ethereum is catching up, like avalanche, that already exist. ethereum is had planned for many years, since its obsession -- inception and researching it since 2018. it's very exciting to see it live. if anything, there is increasing

pressure on the proof of work blockchain's and there's a report out this week, there's a series of reports at the white house requested around cryptocurrencies, and energy uses and looking at ways to potentially cap or regulate the amount of energy that bitcoin miners use in the u.s. it's not as cut and dry as people make it out to be. energy is often greener. but the same time, now that one of the largest cryptocurrencies, blockchain is proof of stake, there may be more scrutiny around the assets. sonali: emily had an interesting question about the y2k moment. there's technological questions about this but also one around capital flows. do you think there really is a critical scale of people who are looking to buy into the merge? or do you think there are a lot of people on the sidelines waiting for all upgrades that are still ahead? >> yeah.

i think some people are willing to sit this out and wait to see if there's a bug. one of the other popular tradespeople of been discussing and engaging in is buying and waiting for the proof of work port, which will undo some of the changes that ethereum is doing and revert it back to its current form, proof of work after the proof of stake upgrade goes live. that will be airdrop to people who currently hold ether. you're getting not only the proof of stake, but you are also getting the proof of work port. i don't think it will be successful. i don't think there's a lot of excitement around it but you never know. that's the cool component of having financial system, you can try to experiment and see if it works. we will see what the markets will react -- how the markets will react. emily: tom schmidt, we'll see

what happens over the next 24 hours. i don't know if you will get any sleep tonight. sonali: i haven't decided. [laughter] emily: hopefully you do. thank you both for joining us. we are talking about nikola, and the trial of trevor milton, with key witness testimony, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: a key witness in the criminal trial of trevor milton,

saying he made it $600,000 from a report about the company. paul taking the stand in lower manhattan court for the second on wednesday, taking charges he lied about the technology and progress to pump the stock. ed ludlow has been in court every day following the proceedings. tell us about paul lackey, who is and why he matters. ed: he's an engineer who works for a company, in 2016, trevor milton contracted with them to work on the first approach -- prototype. as we reported when that truck was unveiled in december of 2016, it was missing key components and never functioned. on a one, he explained of the missing key parts to government prosecutors, they too on wednesday listed -- it was the defense to cross examine and in so doing, lackey sold

information, that the key parts are missing and that it never functioned to nate anderson. the short fellow that published the short report in september, 20 16 that ultimately set in motion the series of events, with trevor milton resigning that you're being indicted last year and how the trial is underway here. emily: let's get back to the basics. what are both sides trying to argue? >> trevor milton is charged with two counts of literary fraud and wire fraud. government prosecutors convince the jury that firstly he lied or made misrepresentation about the company technology, its business progress, its commercial agreements, what it achieved, but more than that, they have to prove to the jury that those because retail investors to buy the stock. what he was saying was done in an effort to pump up the stock. the defense are going to argue

that he genuinely believed what he was saying, he was telling the truth of what nikola was trying to achieve. there will be debate from the defense about issues of linguistics, what does a prototype mean. what the focus is him a genuinely believing in what he was doing. that argument may sound familiar. i'm thinking of elizabeth holmes and the trail you and i covered in san jose. the big differences this is a publicly traded company. emily: on that note, you're referring to the trial of elizabeth holmes, lengthy trial, several months. is that what you are expecting here? ed: we are expecting five weeks. the judge briefed the jury that they can expect to be seated until october 14. it's just a wide range of documentary and witness evidence to go through. trevor milton was an avid

tweeter, many of the statements he said were tweets, their promotional videos, interviews, podcasts. five weeks it will last, the first three weeks will likely be the prosecution making their arguments and calling on their witnesses before the defense towards october. emily:ed ludlow, we will continue to get your updates from the courtroom. that does it for this edition of a bloomberg technology. we will talk things all thing merge on thursday. yeah -- don't forget to check out our podcast. i'm emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪

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