>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power collide, in silicon valley and beyond, this is "bloomberg technology" with emily chang in san francisco. ♪

emily: i am emily chang in san francisco, and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up in the next hour, a new court filing says musk's buyout deal expected to close on october 28, but not a done deal, by any means. we will tell you what the holdups are now. plus, google shows off new gadgets including a new phone , a watch, even teasing a new tablet. how does it stack up to apple? we will take you to the "made by google" event. and a car that drives itself was supposed to be the future. but the reality for self-driving cars seems to be getting further away. will they even exist in our lifetime? is this industry a $100 billion bust? we will discuss. all that in a moment.

first i want to get a look at the markets. tech still feeling some pain. ed ludlow has some breaking headlines from the close. ed: amd, the chipmaker results for the fourth quarter, and below expectations. you can see it soft and by 3%. others in the market like intel also softer, down by 2% in the aftermarket. this is about the lack of demand for consumer electronics, we wonder how big of a very political have on the market on friday. we will stay tuned for more from the chips act or. there is a lot of anxiety in the markets, mixed data throughout the week. a number of speakers reiterating that the fed will stay the course in their fight against inflation, raising the prospect that rates will continue to climb higher. higher rates discount the present value of future profits in the technology sector. the nasdaq 100, software by 0.8%. relative to the broader market,

tech actually fared better on thursday as yields continued to push higher. bitcoin kind of traded sideways, 20,000 u.s. dollars for most of the week. that breaking new headline of the day -- there big headlines today were all about twitter. what is interesting, since the jump in the stock that we got on tuesday when elon musk sent the letter to twitter, going back to the original 54.20 dollars per share, the stock has gone down. if you are one of those people that watches the spread between the current price and the offer price and you see it trickling down, is that a sign that wall street is starting to have questions about the direction of where this deal goes? emily: thank you. we will be back with you a bit later in the show. let's get into this musk-twitter back and forth. the deal could potentially close at the end of the month but twitter is saying not necessarily.

bloomberg's own kurt wagner has been going back-and-forth now for months. what is the hold up now? why can't they just say let's do it? kurt: there is a huge distrust factor. a few days ago elon basque said let's do the original deal at the original price, and twitter did not jump on that, which tells you that it seems like the two were meeting where they thought they originally were going to in april and today we heard there was a hang up around some of the language and what elon musk ultimately said was that there was a contingency. that was not in the original agreement. now he is saying i have the debt, it is there, and twitter is saying, prove it. we will not sign anything until we have a legal document here. so in the last hour or so, the musk team said we want to pause the trial. the twitter team just responded not that long ago, maybe 10 or

15 minutes ago to say, we don't want to do that. now it is up to the judges whether or not they will put it on pause, or continue. emily: what is the likelihood that the debt contingency will become an issue? kurt: great question. a lot of the commitments that elon got with the debt commitments from the banks back in april and may, those are still good, as far as we know. elon has been saying twitter is dragging their feet, there is no reason that this debt will not come through, but if you are twitter, all we have seen is this guy play games and flip-flop. that is where the trust thing comes in. even if the debt is indeed there, clearly, twitter is very nervous, or uncomfortable with accepting that and moving forward. emily: it also came out that musk tried to negotiate a lower

price for the deal. this was, as i understand it, weeks ago. twitter said no. not surprisingly. but he actually did come back to them earlier than we thought and said, maybe i actually want to do this. kurt: yup, his lawyer actually issued a public statement today that said the two sides had talked about lowering the price which again is $54.20 a share, and twitter had offered a slightly lower deal that cut billions of dollars off the price, and elon musk ultimately said no because there were other requirements or stipulations with that price reduction. we are at that stage, emily, were both lawyers are throwing everything they can at one another in public. so it is a little bit -- we are still trying to figure out how the negotiation may have played out. but again, on the record from

musk lawyer basically seeing, twitter tried to lower it by and millions and musk said no because he didn't like the with that. emily: bloomberg's kurt wagner, thank you for continuing to follow it all for us. for the fourth time this year, palatine is laying off a significant number of employees. ceo gary mccarthy told bloomberg today it is part of an effort to save the struggling fitness maker. roughly 500 palatine workers -- peloton workers are being laid off, about 12% of the workers. coming up, meta's market fall. are we seeing a big changing of the guard? this as regulations are put to make big tech business a little harder to do. we talk about it all with facebook former chief privacy officer. this is bloomberg. ♪

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emily: in the span of a year, meta's market cap has plunged from over $1 trillion to just a few hundred million. shares collapsing some 60% over the last year. the facebook parent now accounts for less than 1% of the s&p 500, the lowest since 2015. what does it signal about the company's future? chris covelli is facebook 's former chief privacy officer, former chief counsel

and head of global public policy. thank you for joining us. of course, market cap is not everything, but it is astounding to look at the numbers. do you think we are being a changing of the guard, where meta's influence and power will be significantly diminished relatively over the longer term? chris: there is officially a lot of market concern about the direction the company is going, the move to the metaverse is the focus, the name change, all the different things that have gone into what the street's assessment of the prospects of the company are term and that has laid on the stock extensively. in the long run, the company will position, but it needs to figure out what it will emphasize in terms of how they will continue to make great profits, and how this transition in the metaverse, one of the things they articulated as the main goal of the company with

the changing of the name. meantime, they have a bunch of businesses the upper extraordinarily well, and they will have to make the case to the street about how those have growth prospects. ultimately, that should result in recovering the market cap over time. this is the way markets measure companies these days, it is always a challenge. emily: meantime, you have the supreme court looking at section 230. how big a blow could that be for meta if the power of that law is eroded or erased? chris: section 230 has had a great deal of power in protecting the reasonable rules of all companies, not just for meta's, the threat of that very real right now. the upholding of the texas law by the fifth circuit, the upholding of the florida law in the 11th circuit, thus far, it's

a whole bunch of wacky stuff going on right now because of the way we have been packed. and from there, the companies have to be very focused on this. there has been a lot of good commentary that says the companies might end up engaging in more takedowns of improper behavior, even more takedowns of improper behavior, if there were some repeal of section 230 or limitation of it by the interpretation of these statutes, which clearly both conflict with section 230 and the first amendment too. it is an ongoing worry for the companies and they are watching closely. but facebook, meta, google and your youtube division, all different companies offering media and also content, user-generated content, have

been adapting their policies to get her some sort of stasis, which i think is ok right now, but they might have to change it pretty radically if their protections are repealed. emily: meantime, you have federal regulation that could potentially come with this klobuchar-grassley law. and there is this market cap provision. facebook wouldn't even qualify because in terms of market size, it is too small. you have the ftc scrutinizing facebook from another direction. and, some of the facebook defenders would say that facebook is getting an undue amount of scrutiny for the size, at least if you look at the market size of the company today. what do you think about that? chris: the idea that facebook is a monopolist exercising and just monopoly power to either maintain or gain a monopoly, has always been a pretty far-fetched

vision. a whole bunch of people who just didn't like some decisions the company was making. the antitrust law is supposed to protect competition, not competitors, and facebook has had some competitors competing over time, and some smaller companies who would like to get into the field. but the idea that they are exercising a bottleneck control that is the historic worry of antitrust law has, always been a truly difficult, which is like a judge dismissed the suit. ftc's pleadings were conclusory on that front. the state's lawsuit was dismissed in its entirety. they are on appeal right now, but i don't think it will be successful. if you look at the things they wanted to go after facebook, the acquisition of instagram page website, there is a real read of those is more defensive against other big players in the history

like apple and google, who controlled the multiple operating systems at the time. it's one of those things, where from a traditional antitrust law perspective, it is a far-fetched case. it is proceeding now, but after some significant hand-slapping by a fairly good and principled, traditional antitrust judge in d.c. emily: that said, facebook still has a massive cultural and societal impact. we were just speaking with frances haugen, the now-famous facebook whistleblower, and she expressed concern that especially with sheryl sandberg leaving, that mark zuckerberg still only has mark zuckerberg to hold them accountable. take a listen to what she had to say. frances: mark has surrounded himself with people who tell him the same kinds of stories over and over again. facebook is just a mirror. it doesn't have responsibility. all these things we are complaining about have always been present, we are showing

them to people. we don't play any role in this. we don't have any power. emily: what do you think? chris: i mean, i do think there is a degree to which facebook as a gatherer of cultural expression is merely reflecting of what is going on in reality. the idea that it shapes it instead, it is something the company has embraced in its research internally, as a lot of documents she put out, show. i do think the company should be more transparent about that research and that they should be engaged in a dialogue of saying look, we understand that there are challenges to the change that social media presents to the way that people traditionally experience media. we are trying to lead them. and now are moving into the metaverse, we want to make sure the safety and mental health as

people experience these platforms is part of the mission, during that in a good way is out of the mission. i have seen some pretty good action on that front from the company as the metaverse pivot has continued to happen. on that front. and i think that the fact that a lot of these documents have revealed internal research in the company has been mostly a cleansing opportunity for the company to talk about these things more openly. frances' point seems to be that the company shouldn't be hiding these, and i think that is mostly right. emily: i have to ask about elon musk and twitter. i am curious what you think the risks are. does twitter under elon musk a attract more facebook-like problems, because it is run by a sole and very public billionaire? what are you watching?

if indeed, despite his success, he ends up taking over this social media company? chris: his commentary about how simple this could be -- we want to go to the limits of free speech law in america and tried to step back, it seemed a lot more like what people like frances haugen are accusing mark zuckerberg of, than what actually happened at facebook and meta. there is a real danger. elon's commentary on this has been simplistic and ill-informed, in most cases. almost as ill-informed as some of the propaganda he put out recently about russia and ukraine. a lot of these commentaries are areas where he just doesn't have any expertise. look, i drive a tesla, i was an investor in spacex, i am mostly a believer in elon musk. but the way he has roundly dismissed years of research and

thoughtfulness in twitter's content policies, and in ways to approach these difficult matters, doesn't bode well for an elon musk-run twitter. if it ends up descending into 4chan, it will never be as valuable as he needs it to be, therefore, he will have to smarten up on this if he ends up with the deal. emily: quite the comparison there. certainly much remains to be seen. chris covelli, facebook's -- chris kelly, facebook's chief privacy officer, thank you. coming up, the myth of the driverless car. why a future where you can relax behind the wheel is still pretty far out. that is our big cake, next. -- that is our big take, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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emily: investors have bet 100 billion dollars on the self-driving car industry. but, how close are we really? to truly seeing them on the road? travelers car engineer and pronto ceo anthony levandowski says, the future is years if not decades away. bloomberg marked trafficking spoke to him, and joins us -- marked max chafkin spoke to him, and joins us. the ceo was indicted for stealing trade secrets from google and spent a few months in prison. where is he now? max: levandowski is a very well-known figure in this field. he is extremely controversial. he is kind of the guy that kicked the whole thing off. he created the prototype that became google's driverless car. and then he went to uber and was

in the middle of a messy, to a billion-dollar lawsuit that ended with money being paid and then this indictment, and then he was pardoned by former president trump. he is back and he has kind of turned critic, which is interesting, because he was probably one of the most outspoken boosters in the industry, particularly when two people to push toward the creation of robotaxis. he is saying that when you look at the progress the industry has made, will you look at waymo and cruise, and the smaller companies that have raised money, it's not a lot. it is still a handful of cars and a handful of companies, and they are still extremely restricted. you are still getting all of these videos on youtube and social media of driverless

car's behaving badly. there are a lot of reasons to have skepticism about the industry. yet another one is this pioneer come of booster turning critic. emily: the headline of your story is, "self driving cars are beginning to look like a $100 million bust.” you talk about waymo car is getting confused by something as simple as traffic cones. when will they be hitting the road? or are they ever? max: what we heard is that it has been cleared for the last 10 years. even going all the way back to 2010, 2011, 2012, and google at the time was unveiling these cars, they were saying it can handle any road. then we saw the person who was running the program, say that his child who was 11 would never have a driver's license. and we are still in that place where it is this kind of near-term thing, but it is all very vague. what levandowski is saying, and what you hear if you talk to people outside of the core of this industry is that we are

talking decades, not years. now, this is not to say there aren't advances or important technology happening, that some of this stuff will not change the world. is just the full-blown level five autonomy, the idea that you get into a car without a steering wheel, that is looking extremely shaky. one of the reasons the only two companies putting huge amounts of money into this, waymo and cr uise, both have big corporate backing. emily: our kids, they are still good to get drivers licenses, right? max: i think that is unfortunately the case. again, there are huge improvements in advanced driver assistance technology. our kids will probably drive safer cars. we are seeing that teslas autopilot, even though they market it as self-driving, it is

great assistance technology, cars are getting safer. but this crazy steering wheel-free future looks increasingly shaky. emily: alright, take note, parents everywhere. max chafkin. you can check out history on bloomberg businessweek. coming up, google takes on amazon's alexa and the ipad, with its tablet. on that, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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♪ emily: welcome back

"bloomberg technology." i am emily chang in san francisco. we will get the september period, coming up on friday. jobs news has been moving the market for months as the fed cuts inflation. thursday, no exception, tech in the headlines. ed ludlow with the top stories. ed: believe it or not there was news in the last 24 hours that had nothing to do with elon musk. it was focused on jobs. amazon cut by half percent. they're adding 150,000 workers for the holiday period, the same as they added in 2021, temporary workers to handle the demand. it's a sign that demand is there. general electric cutting hundreds of jobs, according to sources, in its manufacturing unit that is responsible for making wind turbines for wind energy. because that demand is gone. and

peloton, we have been seeking about during the show. i find amazon interesting, we are braced for payroll date on -- payroll data on the jobs market in the u.s.. it's a vote in confidence in consumer demand, amazon is bringing the same reinforcement for the holidays as it did in 2021, even at a time where sales sailors and merchants on the platform are worried, bracing for a slowdown in consumer spending inflation and perhaps some pull forward that spending. you can see the details of what amazon is doing behind me. remember, between march and june of this year, largely do to attrition, they reduced their headcount by 100,000. then another 500 jobs to be cut from peloton, that makes it around 4600 so far this year. is this the final step in the plan to turn around peloton's fortune? we've all gone back to the gym. some of us in the office, using the\. they are pivoting to a more

asset-like model. really interesting to see what tech is doing, particularly when it comes to the job front. emily: alright, ed ludlow, thank you meantime, google announced a suite of new products. along with the pixel seven and pixel watch, they teased and upcoming tablet to take on the apple ipad and amazon's echo devices. let's bring in google's senior vice president of devices and services. welcome back. so, in performance and features. we're in a difficult economic time where consumers are under pressure, paying more for everything from gas to groceries. what is your argument to customers as to why they should upgrade their smartphones now? >> first of all, thanks for having me. we are very excited about our announcements today, for a variety of reasons, but we believe that personal computing watches, earphones and tablets

are absolutely essential computing capabilities. so while i know a lot of people may be concerned with economic uncertainty, i think it is really critical that these products are in-market and in the hands of users. we are also offering phone capabilities with our pixel seven and pixel pro. we have a product introduced today at $599. . the pixel seven pro with some awesome capabilities, for $8,000,009, significantly less than other options in the market. we wanted to make sure people had great options to choose from in today's economic uncertainty. emily: so let's talk about some of the tech you brought back . you brought back face unlock after you removed it a few years back, why is that? rick: well, we have a variety of ways to unlock your phone. we wanted to make sure we had a really convenient way for people to unlock their phone.

the primary way is through a fingerprint sensor on the display, makes it really easy to unlock your phone. but also for convenience, we added the ability of using the fraud-facing camera and a lot of our ai technology to unlock the phone using your face as well. that added element makes it much easier to do something that you probably do 100 times a day. emily: so, let's talk a bit about your projections. there is this report from nikkei that you are hoping to double pixel sales in 2023 compared to 2022. is that the goal? and given these economic times, what makes you think that is realistic? rick: our products keep getting better. our aim is to continue to grow our business here. we didn't comment on exact projections, but certainly, we have been growing, and our intention is to continue to do so. we are doing that through innovations and ai, making sure our products are more and more helpful for our users using our underlying ai technology. and then also by expanding our portfolio. we now have three terrific phone

products with 6,a, 7, 7 pro hitting the market. we introduced the pixel watch the first time and we also have pixel earbuds pro, earphones. this combination of technology is what people are looking for and it has helped our business grow. emily: hang on, rick. we are getting breaking news out of the elon musk/twitter saga. the judge in delaware has said the deal must close by 5:00 p.m. on october 28. remember, we were expecting them to go to trial on october 17. the judge saying if a deal is not closed by october 28, they will set a trial date of november. twitter shares are rising, up about 3% at the moment on this news. we will get a little more context in a moment, but again, the twitter court case, halted until october 28, pending a deal, official deal between elon

musk and twitter. rick, let's talk about what you see as the long-term value of the hardware business, how much iron lady think you have? i mentioned and amazon, given all of this competition out there. rick: this is a very long-term investment for the company, and the market we are pursuing is absolutely enormous. most importantly, this space is absolutely critical for end users. we see it as a great way for people to experience the very best technology google has to offer. we literally take our latest ai research and machine learning models and bring it to our users , so we see this is absolutely essential. emily: google senior vice president of devices and services rick osterloh, with all , the news of the made by google event. thank you for joining us.

i want to get back to the twitter news. the judge halting the court case until october 28, saying the deal must close by 5:00 p.m. ed, if you're going to delaware, it is not going to be until october 28 potentially at least. talk to us about the latest headlines. ed: the deal has until 5:00 p.m. october 28 two if the deal doesn't close, the judge in delaware overseeing this m&a case/dispute, says she will trial in november. so the door is still open to any outcome. twitter shares rising, up 1.2% right now. we were as high as 3%. with that share pushing higher, it is kind of an indication from wall street that they see the chances of this deal now happening. twitter indicating in their court filing earlier on thursday, that they wanted this to happen much sooner. they said musk could close as soon as next week by the 10th.

the 28 date was originally put out by the musk team, where they requested a stay of proceedings happen, that this trial be paused. remember, twitter approach that. twitter said we do not want to pause these proceedings. but the chancellery judge appears to have sided with team musk at this time. emily: the judge is saying she will set a date for november for a trial if the deal does not close by october 28. there is still this contingency of the debt financing. are we to understand by this that that is not going to be an issue, or do we believe that is basically the main issue that remains? ed: so in the first court filing thursday, musk said twitter would not say yes to the deal, that they were hung up on the idea of the debt not being

there, which muska's team indicated a problem. in the filing later, they said musk couldn't even disclose the deal with the banks. musk has a $12.5 billion of debt split between a $6.5 billion loan, $3 billion unsecured, $3 billion of bonds, also a revolving credit line in there as well. times have changed since the package was agreed on in april. i guess the concern is the viability of that debt. here at bloomberg, our expert analysts, our reporters have dug into this issue, and it is scheduled and thinkable that the banks would walk away from giving musk's team the money or the proceeds from the data. it would be a big to their credibility. but banks do need to go to wall street and sell the debt to institutional investors. so clearly, if twitter does not have concerns about the debt,

they must have concerns about what musk's true intentions are, that much we gathered from the port filings. emily: so what is next? ed: you are asking me if we are going to delaware? we are not going to delaware on the 17th. many thought this was a play for time by musk to go back to the original of the total market -- we don't know what the psychology around this is. i don't think anybody expected the judge to take both court filings and then decide this quick. emily: we don't know, except that it is not a done deal. ok, thank you for the play-by-play as always. coming up, what we do know about the executive who withdrew millions for celsius's

bankruptcy. another scandal unfolding. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: time now for our crypto report. remember celsius? we are now learning the former ceo with drew millions just before stopping customer withdrawals. katie freiberg is here to explain. what do we know? katie: like you said, we had the former ceo withdraw about $10 million in may. he was not alone, that co-founder and chief technology officer also withdrew

millions in may. remember in june, self-assess halted customer withdrawals and then ultimately filed for bankruptcy in july. the training is publicly of a question mark as we review the bankruptcy. remind the audience, celsius was among the highest-flying lenders, promising returns, trying to take on traditional banks and saying you can invest your points, receive interest on them. obviously, that came crashing down in a spectacular way. the slow drip of news has been fascinating as we get closer and deeper into this bankruptcy. emily: it's hard to believe anything could be more exciting or volatile in terms of news. the markets, but elon musk and twitter have given us that. that said, there is still action in crypto markets. angle you have been watching bitcoin and how it has been

related to the market rally, or not. katie: crypto is sort of the ho hum market right now. [laughter] but what i have noticed is the bitcoin equities performing really well this week. this queen about 4% higher over the past four days or so -- bitcoin is. but if you look at microstrategy, coinbase, marathon, all up by double digits, which is pretty amazing. part of the reason could just be that they fell more dramatically than going -- than bitcoin itself. if you look at bitcoin, it is down 67%. coinbase is down 70%. so it could be the fact that they fell further and have more room to write, but it is something to keep an eye on and this mild resilience in the crypto market. emily: so what will you be watching in the u.s. overnight?

katie: can i shamelessly plug something? [laughter] emily: of course. katie: so, crypto irl, which i crossed with tim stenovec will be at 8:30 p.m. eastern on friday night. we will dig into, after this amazing drawdown that we have seen, bitcoin down 67% this year alone, who will lead the rebuild, who will be the winner or the loser? will it be crypto-native companies, or are we going to see traditional finance, and? emily: my bet is that that will not be ho-hum at all. "crypto irl." take a watch. thank you, katie. coming up,, our next guest on the return to the office and the future of hybrid work. fran katsoudas is with us next.

this is bloomberg. ♪

emily: there is another sign the labor demand in the u.s. may be moderating. unemployment applications rose more than expected, by 29,000, this after the labor department said the number of available jobs in august decreased by a million. this as the return to the office is weaning, or ebbing, let's say, nationwide. last week was the second straight week that office occupancy barely budged, after shooting up after labor day. for more on the labor market, i want to bring in fran katsoudas, cisco executive vice president. it's great to have you back with us. so it has been called "the great resignation." now we are hearing "the great realignment." we are hearing about "quiet

quitting." what, in your view, is actually happening with the workforce? fran: thank you, emily. i'm so glad to be with you. what we are talking about is an amazing opportunity to think about work. i think sometimes when we talk about this phase, we are so focused on whether people are working from home or from the office, that we don't look at this opportunity from the future of work perspective. as you know at cisco, we have worked hybrid actually before the pandemic, we had a lot of flexibility. what we see is that one of the most critical elements about work is inclusion and flexibility, and really understanding that there is not a one-size-fits-all to the amazing work that we have to do. and if we are able to intersect flexibility, with the work and innovation and connection that we are building, it can be an amazing opportunity, and not something to dread. emily: give me some specifics about how cisco is changing its

strategy now. you know, we are coming out of the pandemic, but it is hard to know where the new normal is going to be. fran: yeah. so the first thing i would say is, i think all companies are still learning and evolving. and there that we are handling this at cisco is in a very decentralized way. we asked every leader at cisco to work with their teams to figure out against the backdrop of the work and how people are at their best, to make arrangements. for some people, emily, that may be that they are coming in once or twice a week, sometimes more. from a cisco perspective, we have been doing this for so long, what we can see as amazing opportunities. we see the career trajectory for people regardless of where they're working, can be equal, and we also see another opportunity, from a cisco perspective, which is all about the tech. what we see from our customers

is they want to have an experience for their people that is similar, whether they are sitting in the office or at home. and i think the other interesting thing right now is that we are seeing inclusion really intersect technology in a very different way, where the tech is working harder to make sure that every person is pulled into a meeting, innovation, a brainstorming session on the whiteboard. that will be critical for all companies, moving forward. emily: that is certainly an opportunity for cisco's webex. i'm curious on your take about san francisco's downtown, which is not recovered from the pandemic. it seems to be coming back much more slowly than other u.s. cities. we think it ever will be the same, and what does that mean for tech culture? fran: i don't think it will be the same. that is part of the problem. a lot of companies are stepping into this wanting to go back. what we're are realizing at cisco is that we have to invite our people back into the office. right now, emily, we are talking

about our leaders as having a numeral, which is as event managers that are really thinking about that connection. the amazing thing is that all companies want the connection, the culture. but asking people to come and sit on their own well to called fluor field, it just doesn't make sense to our people. that will be the focus on the anniversary celebration, the brainstorming session, maybe the community gaveback that will bring people to the office. we just need to try new things until we find what works. emily: so is the silicone-valley standard of office james and catered food and laundry, is that era over? fran: goodness, that is a really tough question. at the moment, i don't think those perks are as valuable as they once were.

what we are hearing from our people is they want to working environment where they can contribute, have, where they can decide on a week to week basis whether or not they are coming in. i think there will be a new set of benefits and perks that are more meaningful to our people. it's interesting when i talk to my peers in other industries, for those companies mandating that their people come back, they are showing that the people are not coming back. so it's not the perks that will bring them back. . it will be one another. it's going to be teams, and having a career that fits your goals. emily: in a recession, typically it is the employers who have the upper hand. would you say that now, as we go into a macro economic downturn? ? or is this time different? fran: i would still say that the individual has a tremendous amount of power in this environment. if a look at an area like

security, we know that 700,000 roles are still open. companies will continue to be flexible and thoughtful. at this moment i would still say the individual has the power, but i do believe we will see more balance as we move forward. emily: alright, fran katsoudasw, executive vice president of cisco, thank you for joining us and hearing your thoughts on the lay of the land. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we have a great show coming up on friday. our guest will be joining us to talk about tech sentiment in response to the u.s. a jobs report. and don't forget to check out our podcast wherever you get your podcasts. i am emily chang in san francisco. this is bloomberg. ♪

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