>> i am ed ludlow in san francisco. this is bloomberg technology. >> old fashion embezzlement position to fail. any regulation would've helped. that is what ceo john ray the third had to said about sam bankman-fried. we get into the testimony and what is to come of it. >> ftx fallout is creating headaches at other exchanges mainly binance which has a form million in outflows in the past week. >> apple's potential solution to anti-competitive concerns over its app store. first we have a check in on these markets because what a day from the macro perspective. if you trade these markets, you trade technology stocks, all eyes focused on what happened with the cpi print inflation coming in. we launched up more than 3% on the nasdaq. we settled that about 1% gain as people put forward with the federal reserve will do with

this data. cpi coming in at 7.1%. the market thought it would be 7.2 percent. s&p up 7/10 of a percent. we saw yields pulled back down 16 basis points. we anticipate a perhaps lower terminal rate. interest rates in the u.s. hitting sub 5%. you want to be buying into bonds particularly on the short-term. let's look at the u.s. dollar. that pulling lower. bitcoin got a bit of a push higher. we know there's a lot of movement between and a synergy that happens when tech stocks go higher, so too does bitcoin. the correlation is clear to see. we are up almost 4% for bitcoin on the day. ed: clearly a big driver of technology stocks in the market itself but individual news at play as well. turn up its biggest jump for the year. mid to clinical studies showing effectiveness in the cancer

vaccine for melanoma. we will track in the coming weeks that. cap up -- apple up 7/10 of a percent. bloomberg is considering allowing doubt -- apple is allowing downloads onto the iphone or ipad. one stock which did react, spotify. one of the names involved in the argument around commission and fees on the app store. worst performing is tesla down for percent. it is astonishing that we swung from a four-port three -- 4.3% gain. clearly there is a focus on crypto-linked stocks as well. in fact, across that subsector we saw a number of crypto-linked stocks, silver gate among them down 12%. this is a bank that lends and provides banking services to the crypto industry. broadly there is still concern

as we hear more and more about what really happened with ftx and sam bankman-fried. caroline: contagion at front and center. well put your let's get back to the huge story of the day. after the ftx quick collapse sent shockwaves waves across crypto markets, the house financial services committee wanted answers from executives. that task has been made or come pick it up at the fact that sam bankman-fried was arrested in the bahamas on monday. bloomberg chris is with us for the latest. just walk us through what happens now from a legal statement -- perspective for sam bankman-fried. >> as you can see, things are breaking right now that he is denied bail in the bahamas and will be in jail. i believe the report i saw said february 8. that was just things down the road for the immediate future to than. he is apparently going to fight extradition which could take a while. it could take months or years.

some people say years. we have had people before who have fought extradition successfully. there is a question as to how that will proceed before he gets here to face the charges which are facing and which are pretty substantial. ed: i have sat alongside you covering financial crime in the courtroom preparing and anticipating being in the courtroom is never straightforward. the burden will have to fall to the prosecution of course. what is it that they will have to demonstrate and prove when it comes to the actions that sam bankman-fried took or did not take it? >> they will have to show that he used -- he is charged with wire fraud, securities fraud, commodities fraud, conspiracy to commit those as well. they will have to show that he used basically -- that he lied to investors or customers by misrepresenting the state of the company's finances or omitting

material facts about the company's finances. when we say material we mean things that would matter to a reasonable investor when they invest. that would matter to them in their decision to invest with him or to give him money. that would be the burden that he would have to show on each of those eight counts to have a jury convicted. ed: bloomberg's chris dolmetsch there. ftx's new chief executive and the man handling the restructuring, john ray at the third and stand on capitol hill were he called the former ftx team as grossly inexperienced and unsophisticated. take a listen. >> not sophisticated at all. sophisticated and perhaps the way they were able to hide it from people, frankly right in front of their isa. this is not sophisticated

whatsoever. this is just lane old embezzlement. ed: what did we learn? >> the new ftx ceo talking about how this is a paperless bankruptcy and that he does not trust a lot of the paper trail he sees it. on the lawmaker side, recognition by some such as congressman french hill who said that the losses here could dwarf what you saw even with bernie made off. one of the biggest bankruptcies here in american history. there is recognition of whether there could have been anything done to prevent something like this via regulation, better rules of the land when it comes to what is happening in the united states when it comes to digital assets. at the end of the day, you did have john ray also saying this could have happened anywhere. remember you had charges civil and criminal hear of fraud and also the sec saying that the

co-mingling of funds here were happening as he was misleading investors about certain facts about ftx and alameda. caroline: talk to us through really what the answer is for people who have lost money here. is there any explanation for those who have been so emotionally and financially involved in this as to where the buck will potentially flow for the u.s. or international users? >> there's a few things here. you did have john ray say it's impossible to recoup everything but you also had him say that in the u.s., it might be a little bit easier than other places given how the firm was structured. i would also say that remember when you look at the sec complaint for example, they talk about how the funds were used and where. real estate purchases, political contributions, venture capital. remember we have already had the ftx executives say the venture capital in particular are assets .

how they treat that in the bankruptcy when they try to make customers whole again will be interesting because they are going to have to track all these assets down at the end of the day and will they get full dollar for them at the end? are they even going to be able to find all the assets? caroline: meanwhile i want to go to your expertise in the contagion effect. you have been looking at a lot of the other exchanges. ed shone a light on some of the crypto related names that have been stung by this but there has been a lot of reporting and focus on binance and on twitter and other areas. do you think washington is paying attention to that at the moment? >> i think they are pretty tied up with ftx at the moment. that's a great question. if i asked anything about binance or stablecoin industries, the focus really here is a on ftx right now because people have lost so much money. there is a lot of anger. to the point that you are making there, binance is a largely international exchange.

of course there is binance u.s. but the issue you were talking about earlier in the show, outflows to the tune of $4 billion in a week. i thought the analysis of this was interesting. this is a small percentage of total assets but shows the customer fears around holding money in an exchange, especially as industry gets more concentrated, plus the issue with stablecoin withdrawals to keep an eye on as industry faces pressure to what happens with the stablecoin industry. ed: whenever you have a congressional committee hearing like this, you get testimony from those called as witnesses but you also get this broad range of opinion from those committee members that pose questions. do we get any sense of what the committee members want to happen next? what happens next based on what was discussed in that room? >> one thing actually and no shocker here is when there is frustration the committee often it is backward looking.

there were a lot of questions about what happened and how this had happened. there was also a fair bit of frustration that he was arrested yesterday before he was able to testify here today under oath to gives americans more clarity on what had happened here. i would say also if you want to that clarity, go to the indictment from the southern district of new york. go to the sec complaint and the cft complaint. there was a lot of frustration here by not hearing from sam bankman-fried under oath. he said he did not have all the details because he didn't have all the data. caroline: fantastic day of reporting in washington. we thank you so much. let's talk a little bit about what it's been happening in the update that sam bankman-fried has been denied bail by a judge in the bahamas in order to return to jail. the judge is also setting an extradition hearing for him for february 8 and arraignment on

tuesday at his lawyer said he would fight plans to send him back to the united states to face charges. coming up, the future of the cybersecurity industry and as we head towards 2023, what that looks like. we will get you the perfect insight and exclusive conversation with palo alto networks ceo. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do.

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caroline: it got to talk cyber

because it has been increasingly important focus for companies, governments and of course this year we will talk about cybercrime as it persists. palo alto networks ceo nikesh arora joins us from las vegas. that conference brings together professionals to discuss at the increasing global nature of cybercrime. what about cyber spending? we want to understand when you are getting on your fireside chats and thinking about innovation in the space as you has been with google cloud, are people so willing to spend as much as they used to in this environment of economic downturn? nikesh: first of all think you for having me. as we kick off our egg night conference in las vegas. there's a lot of conversation in the macro environment and what is going on with potential budgets in cyber spending. whilst we are seeing some degree of caution from the customers out there, i don't think the demand is going away because

there is a lot of historical debt that needs to be paid. infrastructure over the last 30 years due to be replaced because everyone is reliant on technology and that requires a lot of our customers to upgrade capabilities and get more up to speed with the current techniques in the market. bag actors are not waiting in an economic downturn. they are attacking with full gusto. caroline: the competition in this space, the people and customers who they turned to at this moment? is it marketshare that has been growing for you and how have you been winning that if so? nikesh: 4.5 years ago we were a single product company. we have built now a portfolio where we lead in 13 categories of cybersecurity this has not been done by any cybersecurity company before. the silver lining in this macro canonic environment is that customers are looking to reduce her total cost of ownership and increase your security posture, security outcome as we like to call it. that makes us a perfect partner for them because we have spent

at the time the last 45 years trying to put our platform together and that is helping us because people are coming to us for this consolidation market. ed: it has been a busy week for caroline and i. we are only two days in. we called a monday merger monday because of the relentless news on m&a. you are at ignite 22. with your peers and colleagues. historically your m&a track record i've looked at. as an option for you right now? >> we have bought 17 companies since i have been here and 4.5 years. we have an appetite for m&a as you can tell. we are really focused on expanding our product capabilities and portfolio. we have done it slightly differently than traditional enterprise. we have actually looked number one or number two in a particular category. we make sure that the founders come to work at palo alto stay with us and run a business.

i am noting the statistics this morning that we have 14,000 employees. 80% of those people are new to palo alto in last four years. we have measured that the transition that we have under god through -- undergone through m&a is increasing our own capabilities. we paid off all the cybersecurity technical debt we had to pay to build a large company for the future. ed: i did not hear a no on the m&a question. i didn't hear a guess either. caroline made a good point mover talking before the show that when it comes to cybersecurity, cybercrime is not moderated -- moderating even if the spend of your customer is. what are the drivers behind corporate to think i better now protect myself and invest in this area? where the key events from this year that have pushed executives to get the checkbook out? nikesh: last year in 2022 we had

500 confirmed ransomware victims. 2500 companies had to deal with an environment for technology did not help them. they got breached. their systems were shut down. they had business interruption. they either had to negotiate their way out of a situation or pay ransomware to get out of it to get back to business. that is bound to leave a scar on you. you will sit down with your i.t. team insecurity and say that should never happen again. the market minted 2500 new customers who were not paying attention to cybersecurity. what happened is the whole pandemic, work from home, the fact that online was the only way to get business done because resorts were close has put a tremendous focus on making sure that your technology infrastructure is working 100% of the time. that requires it to be uninterruptible and have business continuity and cyber becomes your biggest risk if something happens to tech infrastructure. caroline: you do a global cyber

survey and what caught my eye was not only just how everyone is experienced -- 96% experienced a cybersecurity incident 2022. what interested me was a talent issue. you talk about a cyber skills shortage and most respondents saying they have to turn to automated ways of tackling cybersecurity because of a talent shortage. how are you looking to tackle that in this market? >> you already gave the answer. we don't have a talent shortage. i think we have a perpetration of too many vendors, too much integration which is done by our customers who in some cases don't have all the skills needed because they are running a 10,000 people organization and they should be busy doing their business not worrying about protecting their infrastructure bite stitching cybersecurity solutions. that job should be our job. that should be the industry's job and that is kind of what we have been working on for the last 4.5 years. 4.5 years we said this is a data and ai problem.

i remarked earlier that i played with gpt three over the weekend and it's giving you a window into what ai is capable of and how a natural language processing should be able to answer your question without requiring humans. this is a data problem and ai problem. we need more data and ai professionals not really cybersecurity professionals who can understand 50 different vendors and infrastructure and stitch it one at a time for each customer. this is an automation and ai problem. this can be solved. our customers have to embrace it because if they don't, we will have more victims next year that we had last year. ed: although alto networks ceo nikesh arora. good to catch up. coming up, apple's solution to this app store problem. this is bloomberg. ♪

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to help ensure a brighter tomorrow. caroline: let's talk about twitter's trust and safety council. it is no more. it was created in 2016 to tackle hate speech, harassment, other problems on the platform. it has now been disbanded. a letter was sent to the team saying as twitter moves into a new team, we will be evaluating how to bring external insights into our product. several members recently quit the group over concerns about the company's ability to police the platform for harmful content. apple is making some changes of its own preparing to allow alternative app stores on its iphones and ipads as part of a sweeping overhaul to comply with strict european union requirements coming in 2020

four. bloomberg's mark gurman broke that story and joins us now. what have you learned in your reporting about the changes that apple is working on internally? >> thank you both for having me. you expanded well. apple has a major project in the work across it software and services organizations to really revamp the underpinnings of ios and ipad and other operating systems to meet the very stringent and broad requirements coming into place in 2024 from the european union. as part of these requirements, they will start making the iphone a little bit more like android. some people will not like to hear that comparison, but that's reality. you will see side loading meaning installing apps from third-party app stores and from websites and other sources on the internet. you will see them begin to slightly open up the nfc processor on the phone which is the chip that allows you to do mobile pay with apple pay. payments may be able to come to

third-party apps like your bank or venmo or paypal. you may see a change to the browsing engine. there are third-party web browsers available whether that is firefox, chrome. most people don't know those applications still use the underlying mechanics, engine of apple safari web browser. there's some work being done to open up the fine might network. tile the competitor to air tag has complained that they cannot have the same iphone based pairing functionality as air tag. apple tried to bridge that gap as well. caroline: you bring of a competitor that apple built something similar to. with this ultimately satisfy do you think? it's like android but google is also they think too powerful. >> as long as apple hits the requirements of the european union has outlined with additional markets app for 2024. i'm not sure what else people or

the government can complain about. the downside for apple they don't comply, were talking to 10 -- 10 to 20% of annual global revenue. that's $80 billion for apple. caroline: quite the chunk of change. money talks always appeared thank you so much. coming up we have a scoop coming up from mark ludlow. spacex might be the most valuable private company in the u.s.. we will show you the numbers. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: welcome back to bloomberg technology. i am caroline hyde in new york.

ed ludlow in san francisco. tell us about the space x fundraising. bloomberg has loon that space x wants to share -- sell insider shares the to raise the company's valuation to $40 billion according to sources. this makes spacex the most valuable private company in the u.s.. it is up for $127 billion in july. this is a company that has dominated the market for commercial space launch and they have star link which is their satellite-based internet. in the past, musk has said that star link could be spun off in a listing once cash flow is more predictable. i'm interested in your take on the story. it's a tender offer. we don't know for certain if they will do a primary as well. you know this is better than anyone. for every cellar there is a buyer and for every buyer there is a seller. what gets me is that there is an appetite for investors to get

involved in spacex. caroline: when is led by ostensibly one elon musk. he has very powerful coo's and operational chiefs but i'm interested in, ed, why on one side you were talking earlier about tesla shares under pressure but then in the privately held business, people are for it. >> it's a very hard one to answer. gwen shotwell runs a date to date space x but elon musk is still involved. he said that still a key area of focus for him. it's a question that overhangs both companies, but the private entity space at least seems more immune to this risk element that tesla shares appear to be under. caroline: for now. still going to the moon in terms of overall evaluation of the business. let's talk about valuations of businesses private and whether exit strategies are there. we want to talk about deal sentiment. we have great local focus for

that here in new york. cameron sorry is with us. former head of m&a at pinterest. you can talk about everything we want to talk about. it's a hot week for m&a and valuations and businesses. you are focused on fintechs and consumer businesses. talk to us about what the landscape feels like right now for these companies. >> it's been a slow market for ipo's and for m&a and fundraising, all of the above. it has been down significantly. in the last few weeks on the fundraising front we are seeing more activity and companies trying to close deals before the end of the year. on m&a you saw a large deal announced yesterday in the tech space where cuba software is going to be bought by toma gravel for a billion dollars. vista equity was bought. i think you will see more more of these deals were private

equity buyers see great valuations and values really on the public market for some great companies that have earnings and cash flow. the prices have been depressed in the last year. caroline: thread the needle for us as to whether there are any themes. you say we have -- if they have earnings or profitable. what do most companies have that or are more changes needed before they can go out fundraising? >> in the venture space, early-stage companies, the majority do not have profit. they are focused on growth. they may be growing at 400% a year but they are burning cash. on the market many companies went public unless several years in the sass space. the software companies are publicly valuation has come down significantly. you have doc you sign, dropbox, hub at spot. these are terrific companies. i'm willing to the bet folks at salesforce and adobe are

sharpening their pencils and thinking when is the right time to make an offer for one of these businesses because those companies do have strong clients, good growth, good margins, and cash. ed: cameron, monday was a merger monday. it was madness. i don't know where you were a what you were doing, but as those headlines kept coming, 70 billion dollars worth of deals sunday night through monday evening, what was your reaction to that, the timing, the volume, the velocity at which those m&a deals were announced? >> it ties back to what we talked about which is strategic and private equity firms with massive cash stockpiles and attractive valuations in private and public markets and end of the year. it's time people want to get things on their books and deals announced before people leave for the holidays. we are seeing that on the venture side were people are trying to get deals done and fundraising completed before we had the christmas and new year's holidays. ed: what happens next is the big question.

there are a number of private companies out there across subsectors. there are names that are associated with going public in the near term, long-term. i'm essentially asking you for your outlook and where you see this market going in 2023? >> in 2021, we had 992 ipo's and they raised hundred and 46 billion dollars in proceeds. this year we had roughly half of that. i think that's a ballpark metric. is down significantly. up and he set felt ip back and are waiting. the two largest in the tech space are stripe the large payments company which many folks specked it will go public in the next six or 12 or 18 months. those are the two big granddaddy's everybody is waiting for in the tech space to go public. a number of companies behind

that that are smaller. those are the ones that i look to to beat the weather's from in the markets are back open. caroline: you have so much experience in house and externally and vc and early-stage. i'm interested in regulation. you are exposed to buy now pay later companies. the focus on fintech right now very much in the crypto space but more generally, do you think it's going to be a headwind or tailwind? >> where the nice things about fintech historically leading the crypto side which crypto has been unregulated, most fintech businesses that i am involved with with a payments company, you have to have money transfer licenses or insurance yet be licensed. all these businesses that the fintech space weather payments, insurance, lending are regulated. you have to go state-by-state and these are complicated processes. you need bank licenses. makes it harder for someone to replicate your company and takes several years to get started typically. you could spend two to three

years from your first loan to your first payment. it adds a level of sophistication to the business and oversight. in the fintech space by and large you have regulation built in. caroline: with your expertise, m&a hat on as well. you are perfect guest to turn to for the whole show because you are also an early investor in follow alto networks. >> a long time ago. caroline: we just had the ceo on. he's a big m&a guy was done seven deals since he started. i'm interested in your perspective for m&a and regulation. if you look at microsoft and others, people don't like these deals. are they going to be able to make purchases they want to? >> will and facebook and the big tech giants and apple which is not inquisitive anyway, they have been very quiet on the m&a front. they have not want to do much

because most deals get scrutinize. facebook bought giphy and that is getting undone because of european regulation. other deals are being scrutinized now potentially. the large tech buyers are hesitant to make a big splash in deals happen because they fear will be subject to regulation. one exception is amazon which bought whole foods and mgm and medical and all businesses. the key point is those are not e-commerce companies. they are staying clear of buying things in their core wheelhouse because i think they feel other businesses will have less of a chance of getting scrutinize from afe's perspective. ed: i want to go back to your career and experience in dealmaking. former head of m&a at pinterest and now grayscale. you mentioned the deals that might hit barriers and not get done and deals that have got done in the past. if you are sitting around the table right now with your bankers, with two ceos that want

to get a deal done, would you imagine the frustrations or at least dean's i.t. that if you proceed with a deal, then it might not happen anyway. >> certainly you are seeing on these types of deals a lot more safeguards being built in, escrows and people asking for breakup fees in case a deal is not go through. when the deal that was announced did not have a no shop so the company still is allowed to look for other buyers in a might have been cuba. these are unusual provisions that you typically don't see. in this market where there is uncertainty and buyers might try to back out, like elon trying to back out of twitter before the deal closed, that's a reality of the current market. i think in the boardroom, the venture investors and others are making sure that these safeguards are put into prevent the deals from falling apart or have backup options and insurance policies.

ed: cameron, i think i said you were dead grayscale which is of course not true. you are a board partner at gray croft and former head of m&a at pinterest. we are grateful to have you on. >> thank you. ed: how will the ftx implosion jumpstart crypto regulation? we have blockchain associations kristin smith. before you go to break let's take a look at how bitcoin has performed since sam's arrest. since ftx filed for bankruptcy near-term performance but just shy of 18,000 u.s. dollars the token. this is bloomberg. ♪

palo alto networks >> the ftx groups collapse stands for absolute concentration in the hands of a small group of grossly experienced and unsophisticated individuals. >> it appears to have the hallmarks of enron and bernie made off lended together named sam bankman-fried. >> the antithesis of anything permitted and regular to markets. >> failed to have any systems or controls necessary for a company entrusted with other people's money or assets. >> justice seems to be in process which is welcomed by those in the crypto industry. >> as more information comes to late i suspect there will be a chance for more people under him the microscope. >> this is not for sophisticated

whatsoever. this is plain old embezzlement. caroline: busy today in the u.s.. district attorney damien williams calling the ftx scandal on the biggest financial frauds in american history. for all the fallout of the ftx downfall, will regulators get a grip on crypto to make it fairer and more reliable? for more on the regulatory outlook, we turn to kristin smith executive director of the blockchain administration for policy solutions among regulators and policymakers for the asset space. lobbying on behalf of your members ever last, and others, not ftx. >> not ftx they goodness p had differences on strategy with them so we are never part of the blockchain association. if there is a silver lining in all this, it's that we don't have to be competing with them for strategy in washington anymore. caroline: talk about strategy. talk about out of the ashes, the

roses that will grow that many hope is is it -- is an easier and more transparent and clear playing field. is that likely? we had a twitter pole and we asked whether people are confident or not as to whether crypto regulation will meet mark at this moment? 46% said don't hold your breath. people are on the fence. >> i think there was a really healthy discussion going on in washington prior to the collapse of ftx and what we need to do to move forward with crypto regulation. there's two key areas, one dealing with dollar backed stablecoins and what rate the tory perimeter should look like. we were starting to look at conversations at what crypto exchange, what the appropriate relation for that should look like. those are two very clear gaps. i think the challenge we have now with this ftx situation is the conversation has moved from a small group of policymakers who would really take the time

to understand the space to a much broader audience within congress who wants to get involved and do something. i think this is going to slow the legislative process down, but i don't think it will end the legislative process. i think there are tens of millions of american consumers who own crypto. crypto networks are providing incredibly valuable services that are going to be the future of a new internet, the future of new financial structure. this is innovation that we cannot undo and we want to be competitive with here in the u.s.. the regulation getting that right is key to doing that. ed: it is good to see you. i hope you are well. the mission statement of the blockchain association is to vance the future of crypto in the united states. it has what has happened with ftx, what we have learned about sam bankman-fried impacted or jeopardized that mission? >> listen, i think it's certainly a setback.

today we heard about the incredible shortcomings at ftx international and its related companies. we have seen the charges in the indictments that have come down today. this is really serious stuff, but this is incredibly abnormal behavior compared to how most people in the crypto community operate. most people are here because they want to empower people, because they value transparency. this is a technology that can empower good for the world and i think it's going to become incumbent upon us and that crypto industry to pick up the pieces that sam has left with the mess that he is made. i think it will take some time, but i am optimistic that we will be able to move beyond this and return to having positive discussions around policy, more importantly the builders in this space are continuing to create and bring forward ideas. ultimately it will become incredibly obvious to everyday

people that crypto is a force for good, and is here to stay. ed: as you mentioned, sam bankman-fried charged with a criminal counts including despair see and wire fraud. what was interesting to me is during the testimony of the current ftx co, he kind of laid bare some of the shortcomings of the human -- the humans behind ftx in alameda. lack of financial controls, lack of experience. what do we learn about some of the structural issues in this industry? what are the concrete things that need to be fixed with the crypto industry and also the underlying technologies that support it? >> my take away from listening to the hearing today was that this is not a structural problem within the broader crypto industry. this was a structural problem with ftx. they did not have internal controls. the weren't following local laws. they weren't meeting their own terms of service. i didn't have any record

keeping. this company was a mess. it was in some ways barely a company. i think that if you look at the way companies in the u.s. that are regulated by state money transmitter licenses who are registered with the financial crimes enforcement network as many services businesses, these companies are doing the right things and have taken the steps as required under law in order to protect consumers. we have also seen companies take further steps and do things like proof of reserves where they are able to show that all customer assets are being held and segregated and accounted for. i think that this is something that policymakers are going to be grappling with as we head into 2023. i do think that they're going to have additional hearings at the start of the new congress starting in january. we will see a lot of legislative proposals and senate that attempt to tackle different pieces of this.

i think there is a lot of work to do and discussion going on. this is an important space and one that we need to make sure lawmakers get right. caroline: quickly, kristin, you are focused on the night states. as has been so with ftx, this is a global technology and needs mobile focus. you worry about the entities that don't register here in the u.s. who aren't regular to by the u.s. and make sure they are not. >> that's an important conversation to have because the u.s. policymakers cannot tell the bahamas regulators what to do. i think what the important thing is here is that any related u.s. entities or sister companies of foreign companies must be regulated properly here in the united states. ftx was rightly to but as we found today, there was some cold mingling between the two organizations. that is not supposed to happen under u.s. laws. i think that we really do need to have united states step up and show some leadership and show how we should be doing

regulation and work with our counterparts in countries around the world to ensure that they are doing the same. ed: blockchain association executive director kristin smith. things very much. why the leaderboard a bloomberg's billionaire index shifted. this is bloomberg. ♪

caroline: going viral today is a new lineup of the world's richest people on the bloomberg billionaires index. elon musk was dethroned as the world's richest person today.

today bernard arnault took the title instead. his mosque is now only worth hundred and 67 billion. his drop came as tesla's market value fell for the first time since november of 2020. this was amid concerns about slowing demand for electric vehicles and mosques focus running twitter. -- elon musk's running twitter. new distraction with fakes -- space x. ed: this is the first time that elon musk has dropped from the number one spot since he has been number two since last year of september. this is focus on his wealth but we use that tesla proxy as a proxy for the confidence in him. it is interesting that the valuation of space x continues to go up because his fate and their fate is equally tied. that's what it says in the right literally filings.

-- reglet tory filings. caroline: we have a focus on luxury and technology. the names dominate in terms of wealth and wealth building, they are still dominated by white males largely of the top of the billionaires index. we hope that will change in some way with a focus on inclusion. it is notable how far the wealth has fallen all told from where was. ed: as stocks go up and down and back up again, i would not be surprised to see elon musk climb a little bit more. caroline: for now, he is number two. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. don't forget to check out our forecast. ♪

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