caroline: i am caroline hyde in

new york. >> this is "bloomberg technology." caroline: all in on ai, artificial intelligence as the next big investment in silicon valley. a $10 billion investment in openai. >> crypto, coinbase announcing layoffs and winklevoss pushing for the ouster of another. caroline: a dent in england's first space launch. not to the moon, the world of space, but not the moon for the markets either, but a late-stage rally. the nasdaq up. big tech doing well. we have been up three straight days. the focus on the chipmakers. up 1.3%. the u.s. outperforming the world. europe down. china ending its recent run-up in stock market exuberance.

the msci up only .27%. we're trying to decide whether the federal reserve will be catering to taking down inflation with the cpi print thursday and jp morgan traders looking at that cpi print coming in softer. the market liked that and that's why we saw technology take off. this is a macro picture. this is the crypto perspective. on the back about mood music in the u.s., we have seen a continued run-up in bitcoin and i want to show you for the seven straight days that we have seen bitcoin up against the u.s. dollar with the dollar fading and maybe the federal reserve will take their foot off the pedal in terms of tackling inflation. in fact, this is the longest run since february 2022. ed: when i'd look at the tech sector and the nasdaq 100, we are treading water. amazon, one of the biggest gainers on the nasdaq 100. we will talk about that later. virgin orbit's first u.k. space mission ending in failure, and lack of success hitting that stock. goldman sachs raising the price

target, maintaining a sell, the effects of the stronger dollar and tesla with a pullback, just .8% lower after recent gains. i am focused on microsoft. modest gains on that news from microsoft. according to sources, investing around $10 billion or thinking of investing $10 billion into openai, specifically focus on chatgpt. they will split the investment over a number of years, but the business model is interesting because openai licenses chatgpt to developers and according to reports, microsoft might split the profit from open ai, which is confusing given the business model. it was supportive for the stock on tuesday. caroline: it was the talk of the town and the world, everyone watching whether microsoft would put an enormous chunk of change to work when it comes to chatgpt.

let's talk about it with our guests. talk us through why microsoft would put such a significant amount of money over several years? is it all about bing? >> it's not about bing, but every product they have. everybody's been talking about ai, watson, but this investment shows it is the season for ai going forward because one of the things you have is a customer that is -- now you need to get something in return to that person to enhance that productivity. ai is one way to do it. whether it is sales automation, email, office, any software microsoft has, this can enhance the productivity of that application. ed: your report suggests this transaction could value openai at $29 billion.

i point out that openai and microsoft declined to comment on the story, based on bloomberg sources. is chatgpt the next big development in global technology? will this be the story of the year for your world? >> it's not just chatgpt, but a question of whether there are certain advancements in ai, natural language processing, vision, other areas. what can you do in your normal day-to-day? they will not sell this to somebody as a standalone thing, but let's imagine you have something and your using microsoft products to manage sales and you walk in the office and the system tells you your highest probability of closing

the deal today is this, based on the emails, conversations, what is happening outside. all those things can enhance your software, which you are allowed to sell much more than a competitor like salesforce. caroline: it is fascinating how this will be accretive. thank you. meanwhile, let's dig into whether this is a movement in terms of profitability, whether this is a paradigm shift. our guest is the managing director at general catalyst. you have been quoted saying that, talking about how this might be a new mobile paradigm shift, the move to ai, generative ai. talk about the opportunities you see. >> yeah, hi, excited to be here. ai has been in the news lately for a few reasons. there has been breakthroughs in the form of foundation models, combined with the uses we have seen recently.

they have captured the imagination of developers. this developer attention is a great sign of an emerging ecosystem. we are seeing these models are in the larger class of builders. these are all ai systems maybe before a lot of technical expertise that was mostly phd folks working for really big companies. now it is a question of imagination. openai is one of the companies driving this innovation. we are still in early days. we are seeing young, technical, gen z founders. one out of three who walk into our office are pitching us ideas. >> we have had a lot of fun with chatgpt. we get the use cases. we are interested in the business model and the valuation, the reported valuation for openai, $29 billion, but openai licenses

chatgpt and the underlying algorithms to developers. as a venture capitalist, why is this an attractive potential investment? niko: i can't comment on that particular transaction. i spend my time on things that are early-stage ai, the new paradigm we have been waiting for, for mobile, for cloud. it will change everything we know. it is now happening for two major reasons, especially all things generative ai, the output will have clear practical applications. if you are a creative person, you have this set of super intelligence that can help you with ideas and generally help you be more creative and productive, so you can see results right away, quickly and cheaply.

you can interact with these ai models through natural language. you don't have to learn applications to use them. caroline: what is so interesting is that google, microsoft, these companies are ai experts and have dominated the field and the space for a long time, but has it been the pr headaches that generative ai has exposed them to in the past that has left space for some of this really exciting start up culture to breed within ai? >> absolutely. when you have founders who can do this with foundational ai models and it is a question of imagination, they will be able to build whatever they have in mind. they will reinvent. they will reinvent how they will do their homework.

they will reinvent how to build games. if you work for a big company, it is tricky to build new products, because at the minimum you need to ask your -- gc believes in responsible innovation, our investment thesis, and we only invest with folks who have good ethics and integrity. this way of moving quickly and breaking things was the era building products in silicon valley in the past that has come to an end. a new generation of founders do not embrace that ethos. ed: we have just 30 seconds here. what have you used chatgpt for, your favorite use case? niko: to put together investment memos. amazing. i have to do it. it is part of my job. and with chatgpt i can do it in three minutes. ed: that is cheating. that is incredibly pragmatic. we will have you on again for a more robust discussion on that.

thank you very much. you expect something more exciting. coming up, what is the future of meme stocks as bed, bath, and beyond catches attention? we will discuss this next with our guest. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> in terms of a company that will probably go over the bridge, one company comes to mind, it is bed, bath & beyond.

i think they will not be around one year from now. they have too much debt. they are irrelevant. and by the way, the housing market has fallen off a cliff, and that will not help either. caroline: our markets analyst, pretty grim about bed, bath & beyond, the fundamentals at least. let's look at the shares, because despite the fundamental story, worrying about bankruptcy, the company closing up 28%, yes, just two dollars, but 28% and continues to rally on the back of meme stock investing. is it back? rishi khanna is with us, the ceo of stocktwits, a real-time social network. we asked our audience whether they think it is back. no, it would seem that the twitter poll said the trend is dead. what are you seeing in terms of a desire to be backing these meme again? rishi: the trend when compared to the context of 2021 and the gamestop the fiasco, i don't think we will see those again, but bed, bath & beyond and others are still alive and in

the world of the trading and investing community that is quite active. they are still there. alive and well might be aggressive. we just saw there are a lot of questions whether bed, bath & beyond will be alive. with the wider than expected loss posted today and missing revenue expectations, there is a lot of bearish sentiment, but the community is actively talking about it from our community. the message volume the last few days has been extremely high. with meme stocks in general, they have been maintained. amc still finished 2022 as the number one most talked about stock on stocktwits.

it was number one in 2021 as well. so still around. the conversations are still happening. ed: good to see you. we are showing the top stock tickers on your platform, amc and other meme stocks, tesla. i love your jumper. it says "new york or nowhere." rishi: sweatshirt. ed: sweatshirt. there we go. when do you have a headline that says "x company headed for bankruptcy" and you see a stop jump 28%, what is driving the energy on your platform? is it the herd narrative? is it short-sellers?

what is causing volume in the conversation? rishi: the volatility around it, right? the combination of those. you have the short-sellers and those who are fundamental investors and telling us all the reasons why bed, bath & beyond likely may not be around in a year or not. at the same time, you have those that look at the price action and believe in the opportunities and get together and say hey, this is a company that can be reorganized. what value can be find in this? the conversation remains. there is passion around, today's move, we don't know. it was a big move on a percentage basis. is that short covering from the lows last week? the announcement last week, right? so, sell on the news. cover on the news. the conversation continues to happen and it is the discovery process between the bears and bulls, and while this sentiment is extremely bearish now, the conversation still happens. markets are alive and people are still trading it. the volumes are there.

caroline: i did not realize it was stocktwits that came up with the cashtag. what was so interesting in the active names on your platform? a lot were ev's not just tesla, but others. is the trend ai? can you see the beginning of pickups in certain narratives? rishi: speaking of ai, right, i just saw a segment that was fascinating, although i've only used for reporting just far, you look at that and that is an area we want to invest in to help us understand better all the data and the content we have. we have our sentiment analytics and other things, but you can start to see trends. maybe not far ahead, but in some cases, a little bit ahead of what may be the mainstream media picks up on.

evs is an interesting space because evs, a lot went public through spac's, so there is a lot of passion for evs. tesla is the godfather of not all stocks, but the ev world. ed: yes. rishi: you have lucid, fisker, etc. etc., and the ceo of fisker is active on stocktwits. these companies have robust and highly engaged followings because they got in at the spac or hey, i love tesla, or i love the next product to come out of fisker and that will destroy them, or whatever the case may be. these are retail-driven stocks and the genesis out of the spac world, and so, we will continue, i think in 2022, we will

continue to see conversation around the ev world and there is interest in the ev space and we will see what happens with tesla, and that will be a bellwether for the conversation there. ed: yes. rishi: i don't know that ai has made it into the public stock and public market zeitgeist, right? there's not a lot of companies you would trade on that. ed: when that moment happens, come back on the show and let us know because were trying to stay on top of trends, and this is the new era of markets engagement. that is the ceo of the social platform stocktwits. thank you very much. coming up, how covid is reshaping one industry, the deals, where digital health service are expanding. we have will have a look at the dets next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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proven quality sleep. only from sleep number. >> over the last three years, we have added $40 billion of organic revenue to that business, so there is tremendous growth through innovation, the digital formulary, or the virtual care capabilities, and taking it not just to triage, but health services or virtual primary care from that standpoint, so we see tremendous interest, adoption for the services. ed: that was the ceo of cigna on expanding digital health services, part of an interview from j.p. morgan health care conference in san francisco, which is underway. we are on the ground braving the storms, wind, rain, hail.

is it like that in the conference room? >> well, it is -- i will tell you that much. the rain has been coming in sideways. it is noteworthy there are so many people in san francisco in the middle of this storm. this is the largest gathering of the industry we have seen in three years, speaking to this idea of the post-covid world and what the digital world looks like is a key theme at this conference, this idea that you have to have accessibility to health care remotely in a more expanded way, and over the course of the pandemic, a lot of physicians are dealing with burnout. what can you do from a technological innovation standpoint to help providers in the industry, but really accelerate the industry going forward, and ai is a big theme the last two days here. caroline: of course it is.

we have been talking about ai throughout the show. it will be front and center in health care. what are the applications and what other areas of technology are being talked about? >> on the ai front, you are seeing deals to help existing companies accelerate their footprint. one company announcing a $684 million deal to buy a u.k. company based on ai. you are seeing other deals taking shape as well. for instance, they are relatively small, only a few million dollars were announced week, but this is still an industry that has been starved for deals over the last year. the 2022 deals announced were fewer than 2021. biofarma is the lowest since 2013, so we are looking to see if there is picked up in the dealmaking appetite in 2023. ed: i think i am right saying you spoke to the ceo of novavax, right? what was the take away? >> it is for that company how they capture more share of the endemic market, since during the pandemic they were behind on

their covid vaccine, but we had an interesting conversation around pricing, now that that will be shifted to the commercial market. take a listen to what he said about his expectations. >> pfizer and moderna have set the stage. they set it at a reasonable level. the cost-benefit analysis for that type of pricing, i think it is reasonable. there is always a discount from that range, and each company will find its own way. >> so, it will be a conversation about what that private pricing looks like and what the appetite for covid vaccines will still continue to be as we get further and further out from the most acute stages of the pandemic and how these companies reinvent themselves in a post-covid world as well. caroline: where we can continue to be optimistic about health care, so many applications. weathering it out in san francisco, thank you. stay well.

keep dry. coming up, talking about the crypto og. he is being accused of, get this, unethical work by gemini's cameron winklevoss. more on that fight ahead. from new york, this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: welcome back to "bloomberg technology." i am caroline hyde in new york. and, ed ludlow.

it is fun to be in the same place. we have been talking about microsoft investing $10 billion into openai, parent of chatgpt, but what about start up acquisitions, big deals? we know it dropped, venture-backed m&a dropped, but there were glimmers of hope. katie wrote about it for businessweek. ipos are dead, but does that mean we get more m&a? >> exactly. venture capitalists can only make money in two ways, m&a or ipos. the ipo window has been largely closed for over a year, so that will put pressure on more companies to sell. even adobe figma, they partly sold because there was no ipo window.

it was a great price, $20 billion, but there was no alternative in the near-term, and they knew that, so some deals will sell above their last private valuation, but what we will probably see more of is companies recognizing they have to sell for below their last private valuation. valuations are down significantly. there is no ipo window and there is a lot of investor skepticism about investing as before, so that will fix that. ed: we were in vegas last week, very busy. you are very busy. you go to all the parties and know who to talk to. i get a mixed picture. there are some opportunities in terms of deals that can get done. venture capitalists talk about seed stage as the opportunity where you can make some bets in an environment like this, but where do you expect activity to happen, at least in the first

half of this year? >> sure, certainly investors who invest early are less phased by the difficult exit environment because they have a longer-term outlook, but for companies that are growth stage, they will have to be more open to potential buyers. there are 1200 unicorns on paper. that is too many in this environment, so we will see more consolidation. i am hearing that fintech will consolidate because there are too many payments companies. i always hear that about cybersecurity. i think we will see different start up acquisitions. we will see strategics recognizing they will get a lower price as to the year before for some of these companies. we will see unicorns buying each other and private equity firms buying private companies that are venture-backed. maybe they see slowing growth, but see some potential to help

fix them and grow into bigger businesses. caroline: what has to happen is there has to be more of a meeting in the middle. i'm pretty sure last year there was a lot of money to be put to work in what many felt were cheap companies, but the founders will not want to let go of their company at those sorts of valuations. what gets a founder to realize they have to take that price point? is it they ultimately run out of runway? >> exactly. you will see more and more of that. certainly a lot of companies raised a lot of money in 2021, 2020, so some still have quite a bit of runway and might not be feeling that pressure yet, but when companies are to look and say oh, we have less runway, and then a bird in hand looks attractive. ed: all right. katie, good to hang out. come back. more scoops, please. that is what we like. we have had a range of voices

on. the second half of this year, ipos, -- that play is still popular. maybe a big year for 2023. let's talk crypto. what was interesting about the conversation yesterday is the secondary market is still known to be active, and there still will be a lot of people working for these companies that have life moments that need to be able to have a liquidity event. >> the secondary market can be a precursor to ipo down the line,

and ev, that play is still popular. i'm talking shop a little bit, of course. maybe a big year for 2023. let's talk crypto. coinbase, the latest company to announce another round of job cuts. meanwhile, gemini crypto exchange cameron winklevoss is calling on the board of dcg to remove the ceo, accusing him of bad-faith stall tactics. bloomberg is following these developments. let's start with the accusation, what is this about? >> we have seen open public letters from cameron winklevoss that addresses the group and the ceo. genesis was a partner for the gemini product, and when it comes to that product, there are hundreds of thousands of retail investors that had exposure to that lending product. a lot of things have gone wrong in the last couple of weeks, and now you have cameron winklevoss calling for barry silbert to step down as ceo of dcg,

accusing him of bad-faith tactics, getting to the edge of accusing him of misleading investors for something that was fraudulent. dcg importantly fighting back and saying this is also the winklevoss effort to deflect blame over dcg. at the end of the day, what you have is two counterparties here in a very difficult decision, both in a difficult position, both on their own and together. caroline: dcg was looking behind the scenes. their conversations were more productive. some you would hope more cordial, but in public, an airing of grievances that is painful to see. amid all this fallout, many looking to other areas of barry silbert's empire to make a bet, right? grayscale and the bitcoin trust area? >> there has been this significant discount in the grayscale trust.

there is the question of whether they could take over the grayscale trust. is it worth buying at these discounts? has the meaning of the grayscale trust changed? it was one of the most significant ways to get access to bitcoin, and over time it became a bigger bet on whether it would become an etf at some juncture. if that does not happen, what is the investment thesis and does it change? this is been a cash cow for the digital currency group, but you have to look at how much it becomes necessary for digital currency group. we are talking about layoffs across the industry. dcg, an open letter from the ceo today, fascinating to see him be public like this. he is not all that public usually. we have not seen him on television or twitter that much. like we have seen some others, he was talking about having to close down a wealth management subsidiary and cut costs aggressively the last couple of months, which makes grayscale

even more important for him. ed: cuts, layoffs, crypto. those are the headlines. let's talk about coinbase. another round of layoffs. the latest round of layoffs. what do we know about this particular round of layoffs? >> one thing to look at is how investors have reacted to it. they reacted positively today, not just investors. you have sell-side analysts reacting positively because they believe it will cuts expenses significantly. ed: we see it on the screen. up 13% tuesday. 30% over two days, so positive reaction. >> positive reaction. will this help reduce expenses enough to make it through the rest of this crypto winter, this downturn in trading volumes we are seeing? the question for coinbase and all of them, what does this mean for the products they are building? do they, are they able to remain competitive and offer new, innovative things when you are watching these massive headcount reductions?

one crypto trade publication has counted 27,000 cuts across the industry. so, all in all, with what we have seen so far, we definitely have a lot of pain out there, and hundreds of people at coinbase in addition to the hundreds before, the reality of it is even places that are growing, they cut their headcount, but they think they will gain that back through acquisitions later, so what do these cuts really mean in terms of how they go through the cycle? caroline: well said. quick disclosure, your husband is a senior manager at coinbase. let's talk about the movement of talent within this at the moment. what is so interesting is that while many in fintech, crypto lose their jobs, there are areas where they could find a headhunter in the future, and not the most usual places. ed: not what you would expect. caroline: liquidity, it is known, a massive digital media company set up by an ex-wall

street person. ed: we do not know. caroline: they are now getting into the world of, well, jobs, right? head hunting. ed: one of the best stories of the day, liquidity partnering with whitney partners, a classic headhunter. what is so interesting about crypto, job cuts, what liquidity has done is amazing. they get fed information by everyone working in finance about openings, salaries, raises and have taken that in said, we will help you move forward. it is an astonishing platform. it is ridicule, meme, and satire-focused, but is liquidity now an option if people looking for a job? caroline: it speaks to the growth of where you can take a social media startup.

ed: it literally is a social media startup. caroline: that becomes a digital media company. the founder has gone into angel investing and has now started to think how can i expand and serve this particular community of junior bankers, many junior, looking for expertise? they said, well, it was digital advertising that people kept coming to, particularly around fostering their own skillbase, being able to up skill and find out the view on jobs and enhance their own experience, so it looks as though millennials and maybe gen z are looking not just to the internet, but the instagramming social media. ed: i am a follower of stocktwits. don't put us out of a job, please. caroline: coming up, changing of the guard, internet ad giants shakeup. this is bloomberg. ♪

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[together] the chookie! manage all your sales from one place with a partner that always puts you first. godaddy. tools and support for every small business first. ed: i want to look at some of the tech names that rely on advertising for revenue. 2022 was a pivotal year with the war in ukraine that dented the confidence of advertisers in europe and changes in the industry with elon musk buying twitter. you can see the state of play behind me for what analysts think the end of 2022 will be in terms of sales as we wait for those earnings reports from the last three months of the year, but we are also thinking about how marketshare might change and the world of advertising has changed because consumer trends have changed. this is data from bloomberg intelligence on where marketshare lies, alphabet, google search, but don't forget youtube, dominates in that tech

space away from traditional tech. this data excludes china, by the way, where there are other players when it comes to search and domestic products. you look at meta. some see it as a top pick for 2023 because we have a low base and might see a rebound. there are the optimist who look at amazon and say that it's a sleeping giant when it comes to advertising. it is interesting to take this as an inflection point in 2022 to 2023 because that is a snapshot of the year as a whole, but what we know in the final three months of year, last year, this year, that data is changing and we might see new names emerge and legacy names suffer as the advertising space changes. caroline: and the advertising space richly changing in terms of players, not only with the well, the tiktoks taking market share, but tv, the netflixs of this world and key advertising space, amazon. a great story on the terminal today, and sarah frier one of the key editors to talk us

through this and other social players today. talk to us about the changing of the guard and how much people are anticipating this for 2023. sarah: well, for the first time in 2022, we saw that meta and google together are less than half of the ad market. that has not happened since 2015. they expect that share to continue to erode into 2023 and beyond. that is due to a number of factors, the rise of more options on tv and with e-commerce players like amazon and walmart, but also because of some of the challenges in the market. beyond the skittishness due to ukraine and other economic

factors, you have the fact that there simply -- advertising is not as effective anymore, because apple has instituted tracking changes so they cannot get as much personal information to target those ads effectively, so the same ads are not as useful to advertisers, so they have been looking for elsewhere to put their money. it is really difficult for these big players who at the same time are under scrutiny by regulators, especially for antitrust, and privacy, so it is going to be different going forward. they may not be this big, scary duopoly that regulators have been telling us about for so long. that share may erode and we may see players like amazon, netflix, and tiktok take up more. caroline: we have been talking about the data that has disappeared from the likes of meta and the ability to track certain people, given apple's

changes, but also there is some self-regulation going on perhaps as well as to who they target and how they target. there is a great piece today about teenager's gender and whether that can be thought of as an advertising piece for marketers and now they can't look at that. sarah: meta is trying to improve the way it manages teenagers on the platform after a lot of scrutiny. we have heard about mental health online and how instagramming particular has been affecting teen mental health. there is a lot of pushback from advocates and regulators who have been reducing the ad targeting capabilities for teenagers, so gender is one of those categories. they also reduce the ability to target teenagers based on past behavior, and that is an attempt to try to make their internet experience a little bit safer. and they did not go directly to a particular catalyst. meta, that had been a theme for the past few years, and they

realize the way young people are operating on their app is a matter of great concern to parents and regulators and they need to do something about it. ed: leading our big tech coverage out of san francisco, sarah frier. thank you so much. coming up, what happened at england's first space launch. the first space launch by the u.k. had a mishap. you can see it. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: going viral for a negative reason today. virgin orbit fell in terms of share price 20%, after the first launch out of the u.k. failed to reach said orbit it has in its

name. we can talk to the reasons why and why everyone was searching for it on google and seeing the trend on twitter. the person who covers space for us is here. clearly it did not go as planned. >> no, it did not. it did look as if it was going to go as planned. the virgin orbit launch is not where the rocket takes off from the ground. they do an air launch with a modified 747 plane that carries it under its wing. it took off as planned from cornwall and reached the drop zone and target altitude for dropping the rocket, then it ignited that engine and everything looked fine, then something happened midflight and we don't know exactly what you,

but it did not reach orbit. it did make it to space, but not orbit. ed: this was supposed to be a key moment for the u.k. space industry. cornwall is the surf mecca for the u.k. the u.k. space agency, which is not been that busy for a while, was really excited. what was the response from the company? this is their sixth attempt to launch with the 747 mechanism, but their second failure. i'm trying to understand what went wrong. >> we are all trying to understand it as well. the company stated something went wrong during the second stage. booster ignition. if you're watching the livestream last night, there was some funky data coming in. it looked like the rocket was trending in the wrong direction, but the livestream hosts were saying everything is going well. the social media twitter account was tweeting out they reached orbit, but then we learned that

was a premature tweet and they ended up deleting the tweet once they found out that was incorrect, so it is still unclear what happened. all we know is that all payloads were lost and they will be doing an investigation to figure out what happened. ed: irrespective of the failure, what was 2023 due to be for virgin orbit in the u.k.? were there any milestones they were hoping the hit? >> they were looking to increase flight cadence. that is one of the benefits of this air launch method. they are able to be more flexible where they launch from. all they need is the right runway and the right airspace and they can potentially launch from a number of locations. plus, this was the first time they launched outside of their normal launch facility in mohave, california. because of the national pride associated with it, there was a big spotlight on this launch, so

unfortunately a lot of people did see it go awry, so it is unclear if virgin orbit can expedite launches as intended, however, it only made it to orbit twice last year, so it is not a high bar to clear. ed: a lot of dashed hopes. caroline: thank you. cornwall. we still love you. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." great conversations, crypto, solana head of strategy in the studio. ed: iheart radio, spotify, apple. this is bloomberg. ♪

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