caroline: i am caroline hyde. ed: i am ed ludlow. caroline: coming up, tens of thousands tech employees are out of jobs. microsoft and amazon downsizing. as employees reduce headcount is worker empowerment over? ed: and universities in texas are taking action against tiktok with texas a&m and texas university reportedly blocking the app from wi-fi networks as part of the governor's orders. could this be the start of a greater trend? >> and you know the offices neon signs, whiteboard, or refrigerator? twitter has resorted to auctioning office items. first, what was up or grabs in the market. the market falling. nasdaq coming off by 1.25%. we are seeing the u.s. get a knock in terms of stock prices today.

and it is largely because of retail sales declining from the month of december. producer prices falling at a marked note. this is a reduction in pressure, but what is this saying about the ultimate resilience of the u.s. economy right now? they are worried, therefore backtracking in enthusiasm around certain assets such as bitcoin. 14 days of gains for bitcoin and now it comes to an abrupt end. we are down as we start to change our navigation. you remember at 5:00 p.m. eastern, we retune in the direction of bitcoin. i want to see what is happening overall in terms of the japanese yen. this one had given a little bit of an optimistic note earlier in trade. the bank of japan still saying they are sticking by stimulus. it meant that the japanese currency really weakened against the u.s. dollar at certain time periods today. it seems as though when the bend

bond market. the market still thinks the federal reserve could be there in terms of hiking but overall the bond market will yield strong. we saw the u.s. dollar strengthened somewhat. ed: >> i am paying really close attention to these tech layoff headlines. amazon and microsoft, it's interesting because in session these are two stocks that had been market higher. investors do tend to cheer the financial prudence or discipline of cost-cutting measures but as the market mood turned ugly as you said, those mega caps got taken. you have to dig into the numbers, microsoft the biggest surprise. at 10% of the workforce is going to take a $1.2 billion charge was -- which translates in the to a hit on eps in the second quarter. all the cuts to be wrapped up by the third quarter. amazon, we kind of knew about.

the job cuts were announced earlier this month but we got some more flesh and where they are taking place. but also which teams have been impacted. this chart is really keen because it shows current headcount. 18,000 is about 1% of amazon's total workforce globally. actually, if you take a step back, and think about in the context of corporate jobs, it is a higher proportion, 6% of corporate jobs and it's interesting as well to kind of hear how this came about. bloomberg reporting on this issue but a memo from the retail chief a sickly explained that by the end of the day the teams impacted would be notified. but context is kind of king. the question we ask ourselves, is this part of tech for the world to come in 2023? caroline: and, where will they be reducing, but also, where we will see technology companies investing. before we dig into those sort of nuances, we want to talk about one of the key issues that layoffs sometimes bring for

plenty of cheap technology and chief security officers. there are security concerns around all of this. disgruntled workers for example, maybe they take corporate secrets with them when they get laid off, or maybe they get a bit can us about them. how companies are starting to prepare themselves as they know they are going to make layoffs, how do they ensure that the data they have remains secure? >> yeah, it is a real problem because around the time to layoffs are happening everyone is trying to tighten their belt and that is when security budgets might be cut a little bit, but companies are looking at things like new software that is around to track whether employees are using data exfiltration methods. and they are also trying really hard to give out the messaging and remind people the things that are working on belong to the company and not to themselves. i mention data exfiltration and that is when people hoard emails

people forward emails to their personal accounts or copy and paste spreadsheets with contact details or client contracts. that puts companies at risk of losing business if a person takes that with them to another company, and also confidentiality issues as well. ed: we have to ask ourselves why we are covering the story. fantastic work in business week magazine, analysis about what happens when we hear about jobs being cut, layoffs in the technology industry by the thousands. the anecdote you guys use is coinbase, write, when it announced its layoffs. and brian armstrong basically explaining that by the end of the day, employees would receive notifications at personal email addresses, and it was very abrupt. our customer information is key. we have to protect the customer data. what kind of serious steps have you reported on the companies are taking to safeguard

themselves and customers when they go through layoffs like this? margi: as you mentioned, the case with coinbase, employees were waking up to already having their emails shut off. more and more companies are having to do this because the risk is just so high. it's so easy for employees to forward an email. if they have a few hours left but they will be sending stuff to their own personal gmails. you have some people who are irritated they are fired and want to do something really bad with that and leak it, but often people don't even realize that what they are doing is against their employment contract and they simply want to better themselves and in their next employment because they are scared. they have been let go. largely we are seeing companies

really crackdown and shut down from the minute people are being laid off. and being very, very cold, i guess, but extremely secure. just because the risks are so high. we have seen issues with coinbase. an employee was accused of insider trading. they were sharing some information. there was the famous case with waymo, google's self-driving car, and there was someone who defected to uber. he took company secrets with him and it was an extremely long court case it had serious ramifications for google. so the stakes are really high. ed: all right, just terrific reporting, and also businessweek. check out that story on bloomberg.com. as we have been discussing, amazon and microsoft are laying off some of their workforce this

as part of a wider wave of job layoffs facin the chance of recession globally. here is what some of our guests have been talking about. >> we have not been positive for a year, a year and a half. >> we do believe there is still some deflation to come out of this market after the recipients exuberance of 2021. >> i think the tech sector is one of the few that is discounting of recession in its outlook. >> the longer the volatility e macro volatility persists, the more we start to see the crunch that the late stages are seeing right now. >> there is going to be some amount of normalization. quite frankly, we in the tech industry, will have to get more efficient. it's not about everyone else more with less we would also have to do more with less. ed: ok, so let's bring in bloomberg's austin car. he has been writing about why. we heard from a bunch of names

about these layoffs in the technology industry. wrap all of this together. you have also been writing about this in businessweek. austin: why we are seeing these layoffs in the technology industry. rep all of this together because you have been writing about this also in businessweek. >> what we saw over the last year or two as one of those analysts noticed was the exuberance coming out of the covid pandemic. the tech sector really bet big on this new revenue acceleration being permanent. we've seen that course correction happen quite harshly in more recent days and months with amazon and microsoft announcing sort of headline grabbing layoffs in the 10,000, 18,000 range, and was totally remarkable about that is how we compare it to the rest of the u.s. economy. junkets in 2022 and the tech sector 649% compared to the previous year or as the rest of the economy layoffs were only up

13%. so what you saw is all these tech companies betting on the covid era growth remaining and we are now seeing a course correction from all the big tech companies. caroline: and it is really trying to understand whether it is a bellwether, but also why it is not showing up in the big data at the moment. many hypothesize these people are highly talented and people still want them in other industries, so they are snapped up quickly while they are showing up in the data, for example. but go to where they might add jobs. i thought that was interesting. amazon and microsoft at large, they are still going to be hiring in some spaces, right? austin: that is the narrative they sold wall street on. this big return on investment so they can just stop all those men shuts they have been investing in for the last couple of years and let go of the high-caliber comment expensive engineering talent. so you are seeing this balance between tech companies trying to give off some signal that they are going to be a little more financially prudent and conservative, while not giving

up on longer-term bets. microsoft, for example, we are the ceo saying we will continue to double down on core businesses, but we are going to continue to invest in high-growth areas like ai or at amazon layoffs in the retail division or the devices, the risky hardware bets they have been making. at the same time, andy jassy is saying we will still invest in high-growth areas like groceries , b2b services, and third-party seller markets. they are really trying to balance that sort of risk and reward right now. ed: i want to bring up this terminal chart again which we showed earlier in the show. amazon's total global headcount, right, so 18,000 jobs, it's a striking headline but it's 1% of its global workforce. and i think there is discussion about this from market participants in our reporting. right? what does that tell us? the difference between the headlines and the reality and how this economy of 2023 might be different to the dot-com

bubble financial crisis? austin: yeah, it indicates so far that just given how wide big tech is in the global economy, it is a lot different than it was during the dot-com crash. all these companies are much more dependent on silicon valley software, hardware, chips, cloud computing services, enterprise services as well. it's not the case that is much as these headline grabbing numbers are pretty massive, there is still a small percentage of amazon's workforce or microsoft workforce. so for microsoft the 10,000 cuts that is only 5% of their workforce so it's a lot smaller and it is specific areas at least we are hearing from hr and recruiting, rather than some of the high-caliber expensive talent and engineering that can double down further core businesses that they want to continue to invest in. that again, it is always that balance. with mark zuckerberg he said,

you know what, we are going to invest more and reprioritize that, but were also going to make a bet on engineering talent , which is in the longer term. caroline: it's nuanced. meanwhile sector in technology , one that's really been letting go of a lot of stuff is crypto. in fact, genesis is one of those. it says it is preparing now for bankruptcy filing as early as this week. the lending unit for digital currency group genesis is in confidential negotiations with various creditor groups. this is amid a liquidity crunch. genesis suspended withdrawals in november, soon after ftx went bankrupt. on tuesday, digital currency group told shareholders it is suspending quarterly dividends in an effort to conserve cash. coming up, well, no more access to tiktok at universities in texas. what impact could that have? we will discuss. this is bloomberg. ♪

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>> i think the national security of our time is the technology competition with china. we have already seen that around things like 5g, semiconductors, we are now looking at new energy and synthetic biology, because in china, we have a competitor that is investing at a rate that is commencement with what we are investing. and, i am all for innovation, but i have been particularly concerned about tiktok.

my fear is, one, tiktok collection, more information about you the user then virtually any other site around. your keystrokes, your facial expressions, and i am afraid that is being stored somewhere in beijing. i am also concern about it being able to mimic the flow of information to you. caroline: that was senator mark warner. speaking of tiktok, some universities in texas like university of north texas, among others, are said to be plucking blocking access to tiktok on its wi-fi networks to comply with, "governor abbott's directives banning employees to using or downloading tiktok on all state issued or managed devices." bloomberg's alex broker is joining us. the university is front running the state. oh, i think we have a technical

glitch. we will get to him in a moment. he is in los angeles. first, let's bring in what our audience said. it seems we are seeing front running in certain institutions versus the state itself, but ultimately our audience is asking whether this will make any difference, and well, many seem to think they will come to the rescue in some way. ed: there is two sides to this debate. in texas, what you see is universities, essentially public entities enacting the directive from the governor and putting that into practice. and that manifests itself by universities not allowing students are anyone a campus to access the app through the wi-fi network. well, they can probably access it if they turn off wi-fi and use their 5g network but it's the debate around who should be acting on this because the biden administration and the federal government has been leading a security review of tiktok and other cybersecurity threats for

some time. and there is the answer. 48% of the respondents polled said this isn't going to fix anything specifics of not allowing tiktok access on campus in texas universities but they are following through on the governor's directive. caroline: they are. and let's get to alex now. the technology issues solved on this technology show. tell us, alex, about whether you are surprised that some of these institutions are going headlong into these sort of bans? alex it is interesting how they : are interpreting this. university of texas at austin doesn't have a specific directive in this way. texas tech is waiting until they get more guidance from the state , so it's interesting to see texas, georgia, alabama really being front fitted here and following along what we heard at the top from senator warner , basically saying we are worried about data sharing on tiktok and potential data sharing with the chinese government, and we are going to lock this down.

ed, what you said, about students potentially looking for workarounds accessing tiktok on their cellular data and not on the wi-fi, that is exactly what's happening. i've been chatting to folks on the ground at ut austin in particular, who said we have other ways we are going to access this. i use it for an educational content, and for entertainment. they are on tiktok anyway even if it's not on wi-fi at the end university. ed: i think it's also an educational issue, understanding why it's a security risk and conveying that to users of all social media platforms. that seems to be what we're hearing from users of that particular platform. bloomberg's alex barinka , thank you very much, the great reporting from los angeles. coming up, what software spending looks like in 2023. we will hear from the ceo of cisco chuck robbins next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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ed: now, cisco ceo chuck robbins spoke to david westin about tech layoffs, the impact of covid-19 on the tech sector but first about their investment into software. have a listen. >> there's a few things we've done. we've added a lot of our cyber security technology, it's pure software. that is the nature of the industry and how we are defending against threats. collaboration is a lot of software. our portfolio in the meetings capability. so those are just natural software products. we then also begin to sell subscriptions on our hardware platforms and that's been a transition we started back in 2017 or 2018. and last quarter, recurring revenue, including software and services, represented 43% of our

business, which is more than where we were years ago. >> you mentioned the pandemic and what that did to tech, how did it change your business and may be in the longer term not just the short term but were there fundamental shifts in the use of technology that affect cisco? >> i think it became clear, i believe prior to the pandemic , every executive believed technology was strategic. a decade or 15 years ago, we moved from it being a productivity driver to being a differentiator for our customers. during the pandemic, it just elevated. everyone's eyes were opened. we kept the world running. when everyone was at home, we kept everyone productive. i think no one believe that was possible, including a lot of people in tech. we have never tried it before, doing it at that scale. i think what it did was gave, i think it gave our customers this incredible confidence in investing in technology and listening to their teams bringing them these new creative projects around what they want to do with technology.

and they go, well, i have seen it work here comes so i'm going to trust you and believe you. so that is one piece of it. i think from a cultural perspective, everybody's culture was magnified during the pandemic. i think we will never go back to the way we were. i think were going to operate in environments where employees want to have human, authentic conversations, just like over video when everybody was at home, so i think it changed how we engage with our employees as well. >> talking about new, crazy, creative projects in tech, there is a lot of talk around here about artificial intelligence and by the way quantum computing. i'm not sure what it means but there is a lot to talk about. is that going to change your business? >> we are working on quantum networking today. because when you have big networks of quantum computers, you have to build connectivity that move the bits at rates that that are at the speed of the computers. there is a lot of research we are engaged in. we have a team of people doing research on quantum networking. that will be a part of our

business. open ai and chatgpt, that is something that i actually had a conversation with my team about. it's amazing how fast it went from being exposed to all of a sudden -- my guess is my next board meeting we will have a discussion about open ai. we think there are lots of great use cases we can leverage that technology for, and there's also a lot, probably some understood, not understood, some unintended consequences. i don't think there's any doubt. caroline: all talking cha tgpt. more coming up, twitter closing offices now auctioning off what is left inside. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: want to own a piece of silicon valley history?

maybe you now do, because twitter was auctioning off its old office supplies. get this. 31 lots were on offer. some of them went for tens of thousands of dollars. for example, a light of the twitter bird itself, all of these going for big bucks. the auction house behind it says this is to secure the financing of twitter itself, although we do know this is a precarious situation, paying down debt. elon musk himself is not paying some of the rent over in san francisco, but for now, the auction is done and maybe you know have a piece of corporate history. >> i checked it out because i think it stopped, the auction. 27 hours long. it finished at 10:00 a.m. pacific time. $32,000 or thereabouts for that neon sign. this is kind of trophy stuff. particularly if you worked there. ed: i love that you focused on the glitzy, shiny items. i loved the endless thumbnails showing tables and chairs and

if you wanted, you could find a full office set to furnish her your office from twitter. i actually know a guy who has been in that building a few times. kurt wagner who joins us now because on top of that news report by the information that twitter revenue dropped as much as 35% last quarter from the same time a year ago. twitter, you and i have had a rough 2022. navigating this let's start with the financials and we will get to the furniture. what is happening, in short? >> we have been talking about this for a while, roughly 90% of twitter's revenue comes from advertising. if you are an advertiser twitter is a scary place. it's not comfortable, a safe environment to be spending your money, so i don't think any of us are shocked. we have seen the headlines about a lot of these big advertisers that have stepped back from

twitter, so the reality that this hit them hard in the quarter is not a big surprise to me. caroline: how is tweeter in chief dealing with this? many saying the tweets coming from elon musk have gotten less controversial, shall we say, as of late, but how has he been trying to ensure that people come back to the platform and want to advertise with them? >> it looks like he has sort of redirected his attention. there was a lot of frustration from tesla investors that he was not paying closer attention to the company. and so, this may just be something that he got there, he did the layoffs that were planned, and he feels he can redirect attention elsewhere, right, but i think bringing people back takes time and trust if you're an advertiser. i'm not sure twitter has earned the trust back from those big brand marketers and it's

probably the kind of thing that will take a while. they will have to watch and say is elon musk does taking a couple of weeks off tweeting controversy over things, or is this the new normal for him moving forward? i don't think we can say that just yet. ed: i want to dig deep into financials. i want to talk about the world's second richest man and he's going to bring advertisers back , but i'm not going to ask you about that. >> you want to know about the chairs. ed: yeah, i want to know about this option. did you buy anything? >> i did not buy anything. maybe a hightop table. no, it is said. ed: there is a serious point behind it that many people lost their jobs. >> it makes sense from a logistics temple standpoint. standpoint, right. you used to have close to hundreds of thousands of employees you don't need all this office space. you don't need all this office office furniture.

you don't need 500 whiteboards or standing desks. it makes sense that they would get rid of this but i think what a lot of people are seeing is sort of like a yard sale from this company that had for a long time like a very visible culture, probably more than most tech companies. right? the symbol or the big neon bird. these are things we would see pictures of at the holiday office party or whatever, right? so maybe there is a little bit more kind of connection through to twitter's culture than most companies because so much of it plays out on the surface itself. caroline: looking at the stats. the bird statue was for $100,000 . why do it then and why do it so publicly? >> i think to do it is again sort of like a space thing. if you are getting rid of offices. i think there was a singapore office they closed last week as well. you have to do something with all the stuff in those offices. there is a logistics part of

this where they no longer have the space to hold it. so i think that is probably part of it. not doing it publicly, how are you going to get the most bang for your buck? right? you have to make sure that people know about this thing, so i'm sort of speculating here, right, because we haven't heard elon say this is the strategy behind the auction, but my guess would be that's what they did at the way they did it. ed: kurt wagner covering every twist and turn inside and outside of twitter. thank you so much. i want to turn to the latest on apple because another day, and another scoop. it's taking on amazon and google . according to sources, expanding their in-home product lineup. meanwhile, apple still planning to unveil its first mixed reality headset this year but the plans for a lightweight augmented reality glasses have been postponed. sources say due to technical challenges. bloomberg broke both of those stories in the space of a single working day and i'm delighted to say he joins us now. let's start with the in-home devices. because actually come up when fe

consumer electronic companies. what are the details you reported? this morning, apple rolled out a new pod. it's the return of the original home pod. it's a bit lower costs because they rolled it out at $300 instead of the original $350 of the homepod. there are fewer microphones and tweeters, so not as powerful. and it uses an apple watch processor instead of an iphone processor, so you have a little bit of a ship there, but for audio fans you are really not getting better than an apple home pod in your home, so i know a lot of people are looking forward to that. now they are working on a few other devices. they are working on a faster apple tv for next year. though it won't have eight k function. they are also working on a new low end ipad for the home, smart home appliances, using it to facetime, watch videos.

so that is the smart home strategy for apple moving forward. caroline: away from smart home to ar/vr. tell us a little bit about the strategy there because it looks as though they are struggling with the glasses at least. >> apple has been developing the strategy for north of six years, 7, 8 years at this point, and for too long, the strategy was twofold. first rollout this high-end halo device which is going to be a mixed reality headset merging virtual and augmented reality, a very complex device that will cast a shadow over the ar/vr market. then, as early as a year later, we could rollout glasses. these are lightweight ar only classes. that has changed. the mixed reality headset, the high end one, the reality pro that is still coming this year, but instead instead of a follow-up product this excessive product will be a low-end version so one that is probably about half the price. somewhere closer to $1500. the same price as the

high end meta quest pro headset. the bigger news, those ar glasses, those are not coming anytime soon. those have been pushed back indefinitely. lots of technical challenges, lots of difficulty. the big headset is going to have about two hours of battery life. the ar glasses are something you need to wear all day without needing to recharge, microphone or apple watch. if the high end device is getting two hours, how good of a device with even less space be worn all day? there are challenges related to the displays. it's called a waveguide technology to be able to see things in front of you while also be able to glean information off displays and be they would have to be connected to cellular radios, wi-fi, and bluetooth at all times. so much complexity in that product, so it is going to be many years before we see augmented reality glasses from apple. caroline: expertly analyzed, thank you as always. we will let you get back to her

scoop getting. meanwhile, netflix picks up steam ahead of its earnings. all important for tomorrow. this is bloomberg. ♪

ed: netflix earnings as usual will focus on the company's new subscriber count. every quarter is that way. investors always thinking subscriber growth, did it go up, did it go down? this time around they will also be looking to initiatives to increase revenue and of course all the rage in the world of streaming is ad supported tiers,

which netflix launched in november. our guest from trans union joins us. it is that dynamic. we are obsessed with subscriber growth. and wall street, particularly netflix, but this quarter, we are going to ask ourselves how successful has it been in attracting u.s. customers in particular to an ad supported tier. is that the focus for you? >> yeah, well, thanks for having me. i frankly think it's going to be a challenge that that's ultimately because they are a victim of their own success. if you look at how big netflix is in the u.s., they really have more subscribers than any of the streaming players in the country. so really the hard part is how do you get that penetration to shift to ad dollars? or an ad experience. the reality is most of us who have accounts aren't going to do that. my guess is over the short term it's going to take a little while for them to get to the numbers they expect on the ad model. i think over the long-term they will be fine, but if i make a

prediction we will be here tomorrow, my guess is that less ad users than they hoped for. but it will build over time. ed: i actually have some sympathy to netflix so i have frustrations about how micro-focus we are. new subscriber additions around 4.5 million. we talked about this in the past . there is a whole generation of user out there, who have never seen ads. they grew up where they could stream whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted ad free and i wonder if that is a big factor here, not just for netflix, for disney. the attractiveness of a ad n ad-supported product. many people don't want it. >> that is fair. certainly no consumer says they want ads but if you look at what happens, there is always a balance there. the practical reality is we can only spend money on so many things to subscribe to and we are really willing to actually exchange our time in exchange for really subsidizing that experience.

think about certainly the cable experience, well much less prevalent than it was, there are still times we do that. so i don't think we have a question of whether advertising is part of an ecosystem. you have premium content creators, netflix being one of them, which is always going to look at the opportunity to make additional revenue, and by the way, very high the accretive revenue when it scales in the form of advertising, so that balance between subscribers and advertising, i don't think it's going anywhere. and sure, many consumers won't always want advertising but my guess is you will always find a market somewhere. caroline: the only time i want advertising is when i'm watching the super bowl. right? so, to that end, what about sport, live events, how are we going to see the actual product and content they provide it are great at netflix? >> what we are really talking about is netflix becoming a media company just like many others, right? different from the streaming content company about

subscribers, you are now talking about having to attract the type of eyeballs at one time in scale to balance that ad model and you are right. you are already see them investing in sports, right? i think that will be something they will continue to do. you have seen that work well with an amazon prime. and ultimately if you want to be in the media business inclusive of advertising, you need to have those water cooler moments. it's not only sports but it is clearly heavily dominated by sports these days. those live moments do matter, and that's really what all the companies are finding, that right balance, right. the linear model is shifting. it is not going to die for a while. streaming will be the dominant form of distribution. but that can be on demand, it can still be what feels like the linear tv ad business. just in the streaming environment, which is things like live sports, and balancing all those things is going to be what companies like netflix has to do to compete. listen, they are absolutely in competition against disney and warner bros.

and that is part of the ecosystem. caroline: i wonder what sets them apart from their competitors. they have technology in their bones. they are a group of engineers, but a media player. i'm interested whether that sets them apart. can they when the personalization race if they are pulling back on content now? >> i think that's going to have to be part of it. there are other companies that have good technology as well. but netflix, to your point, has that in their bones. that will impact their content strategy and advertising tragedy. you have to give them credit for how they have approached it so far. seeing hires in that team, it makes a ton of sense. so while like i said, in the short-term, it is going to be harder to have netflix get to where the point where it is as scaled as they hope, but having that dna which is part content, part technology, i agree it can only help. certainly the ad business is one where the mix of scale and

precision matters, right? advertisers are absolutely looking for the balance and netflix you can hopefully invent in the right ways to provide a skilled audience but doing that in a real targeted way with new ad-accretive. it will be an evolutionary process. there is a lot to be excited about over the long-term. caroline: matt spiegel, great to have you on. executive vice president and trans union. meanwhile, let's pivot back to switzerland. because hcl tech, the software giant based in india is coming over to talk about how they are focusing on esg and nonlinear growth in the long term. discussing the company's priorities. the hcl -- >> i think we've got a couple of five strategic objectives. the first one being we are a n i.t. services group that

covers engineering, cloud, and software, so we want to be able to lead with differentiated products. we want to be able to defer for be a preferred digital partner for global 2000 companies in preferred geographies. i think weaving esg into the lot of business strategies is absolutely critical for us. hcl technologies has 220 5000 225,000 people across the world. the average age is 27 below. i think today, the strategic priority for the company has to be to be a preferred employer. and lastly, i think we are able to meet these objectives than , then delivering the highest shareholder return in the medium-term should be the ultimate strategic direction. >> such uncertainty. >> yeah. >> there is so much disruption. what is your strategy to stay

relevant? >> i think, like i said, one part of it is technology. >> what is the growth strategy? >> i think the growth strategy is investing in our people and investing in skills. you know, like i said, we have 225,000 people all over the world. technology is moving faster than the skills can keep up. we do about 2 million, 3 million hours of training a quarter and that is only going to grow. we also have to find nonlinear ways of growth so if you look at our software portfolio which is quite unique to hcl technology , it is about $2 billion of our $12 billion in revenue. it's much more nonlinear. so while the balance, $10 billion, would have more than 150,000 people working on it. our $2 billion in software will have about 5000. >> [indiscernible] how do you take it to 30, how do

you take it to 50, when can you get there? >> i don't know when were going to get there. i can only talk about our strategic vision in the next five to seven years, but investment that we made in hcl software, which is a $2 billion that we get from 5000 engineers is nonlinear growth. and i think as we go forward, we are going to want to go that business as well. >> indian i.t. executives lament that there is a gap between engineering, education and what the industries actually need. how do you bridge that gap? especially now that you are part of the m.i.t. team. >> the global advisory council. >> the global advisory council. thank you. >> so, there are a couple of experiments we are doing. we talked about investing in a lot of training which closes the

gap between fresh engineers and what they need to do to deliver to customers all over the world. we are also doing something very interesting, which is we've got 8000 fresh graduates in the hcl system. and we have partnered with universities so that on the we can they can pursue an undergraduate education. but through friday, these are , monday 18-year-olds. they are digital natives. we got them from grade 12. we have got 50% men and women as part of this cohort. and after eight months to nine months of training, they are ready to deliver. so it is looking at the talent pools, and you know, as you go forward in the world, you are going to realize there are more people who don't pursue higher education than those who actually do, because higher education is becoming prohibitively expensive. so how do we actually tap into different talent pools? so i think that is quite unique

to hcl tech. ed: coming up, if you have trouble today, you're not alone. we will talk about that next. this is bloomberg. ♪ when you automate sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates, exemption certificates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh

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caroline: going viral today. what was the fear of opening your bank account to see a negative balance? dozens of bank of america customers using the transaction service zelle were tweeting about how their funds suddenly disappeared overnight. or they had trouble logging into the bank app. there were hundreds of reports issues with zelle. take a look at this. those reports seem to have died down by wednesday afternoon. now, according to american

banker, zelle runs more than 1.6 billion dollars in transactions daily. this is heavily lent upon i know upon. i know i use it. many people use it. to log on and see negative, must have freaked out. ed: they are saying that this was resolved by 3:00 p.m. eastern this was resolved but if instagram goes down, your bank account goes down and shows me think funds that is different. seeing social media response, savage. caroline: yeah. i have to say some of the memes are pretty great. go check them out. that does it for bloomberg technology. ♪

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