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tv   Bloomberg Technology  Bloomberg  January 19, 2023 11:00pm-12:00am EST

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>> i am caroline hyde.
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>> this is bloomberg technology. >> netlist, a story of subscriber growth and succession. we dig into the earnings and executive changes. >> emails from elon musk shed light on his involvement in a 2016 demo that exaggerated autopilot capabilities. >> the hacks to stop hackers from taking her money and they are working. new research shows your companies are paying ransoms. that doesn't mean the number of attacks are actually down. you to discuss that but first i am afraid we have another down day. similar moves, this was a global selloff and it all comes back to a federal reserve that is the central banks of the world. more hawkish commentary coming out of what is known as a pretty dovish video.
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mood music turns sour for a second straight day. yields also following suit, pushing up four basis on the two-year. that as we factor in the federal reserve will not be taking his foot off the pill -- it's foot off the pedal. not one risk asset, we see a rebound hold in the motor bitcoin. we did see it managed to hold onto its gains versus the u.s. dollar. even as the u.s. dollar got a little tired. we got a little bit of interesting news out of ftx, we will see a reemergence of that exchange as we start to piece together the company post bankruptcy. is that feeding a little bit more optimism around crypto? >> i am still in a spin because of all the news that broke after market close this thursday. let's start with t-mobile, interesting piece of news. this year is a bit higher. 2/10 of 1% have been lower after
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saying they were taking significant expenses from cybersecurity and the company said they identified the malicious activity with data through a single application program that was obtained without authorization. we can get some reaction later on that in the show. not really clear about the full details now but the stock is a liar. netflix is a huge story but before we get to that conveyor belt of seed -- conveyor belt of ceo changes, let's talk about texas instruments. they announced they have a change at the top. rich templeton step -- rich templeton stepping down. this is something that has been in the works for a good long time. then you have netflix. this was the big headline. not that they beat subscribers in the fourth quarter but that reed hastings is stepping down as co. sierra, greg peters gets a promotion, reed hastings
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remains as executive chair. this is a company he has been at the helm of for 25 years after founding in the nineteens out here and it is really interesting to see that they seem to have this place and place for a long time. you can see the stock higher in after hours. >> we have succession planning and a chairman remaining over a texas instruments, it is similar for netflix. it is interesting to bring on lucas shaw who so intimately understands this company and the inner workings of reed hastings. he is a man who is focused on culture in so many ways. what you make of who steps up? and ultimately who will have the decision-making power? >> my assumption is read will say that ted and greg get ultimate authority there.
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as chairman of the board, as cofounder, as a major shareholder, there was a huge transaction. if netflix decided to sell itself off, i imagine that read would get more involved but he has been stepping back. he delegated most of the hollywood stuff to ted. he has put greg in charge of these big initiatives of advertising and password sharing. i think that is how the company will keep operating with greg looking at a lot of the product and strategic fit. ted looking at a lot of the more entertainment focused and programming operations. >> let's think about the forward-looking nature of this. greg was already leading the charge on the ad supported tear. already leading the charge on the crackdown. ted sarandos, the men about hollywood thinking about content, given the numbers we just got with subscribers on the
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top lines, where will they focus their energies going forward for 2023? >> it will be continued execution on advertising. that adhere is only two months old. that will be improving some of the technology behind it. targeting sales. it got off to a relatively slow start. i think they like what they are seeing. it would be rolling out this whole password crackdown which i think we'll start this quarter and really ramp up in the middle of the year. it will be continuing to try to improve programming in certain areas. they have done really well recently on english language television programming, not quit as well on the foreign language television programming. i think they want to keep their hit rate. there really is a lot of movies that people don't watch. then there is the whole gaming piece of it. that is still a small part of the business but they are investing a lot of money into it. it is something that will continue to talk about in the future. the one when i want to make is while they had over the strong
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final quarter of the year, the thing to keep in mind big picture is that for the full year, they did still post there were subscriber growth since 2011. >> great reporting on what is changing at netflix, good analysis of the numbers. i think we need more of that. let's bring in the parent analytics. the third-party data suggested that in the final three months of last year, netflix is facing greater competition from the likes of warner, discovery and disney. and demand overall is starting to pull back. when you saw those net subscriber as for netflix, 7.7 million, what is your reaction? >> still not totally surprised. netflix has always been savvy. it likes to set the stage for positive narratives which we are now very much engaging in. we look at methods from our angle. it is still the streaming industry leader. it has the most global subscribers. it has the most in demand global
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catalog and that includes original and licensed movies and tv shows. it leaves the entire industry in global original demand and u.s. original demand. that is shrinking as it seeds ground to very hungry -- hungry competitors gaining market share but they still have a massive lead. i think all the doom and gloom around netflix last april, perhaps a bit premature. even with what lucas adds really pointed out. >> lucas at the end of his bloomberg news report summed up the comments about the ad supported tear and they were a little bit muted from netflix there. pleased with the progress on the ad supported tear. they say that is bringing in cost-conscious consumers. do you think that was part of the beat when it came to subscriber growth in the last three months of last year? >> they even pointed out in their letter to shareholders they are seeing a lot of conversions from previous
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subscriptions to add tears. that is what they want. they wanted to spend a total addressable market for netflix and particularly at a time when consumers are we in concession fears and maybe a recession is a bit more cost-conscious. not the most explosive rollout but this is going to be a must-have for all advertisers looking to get these digital tv's. we will see that growth throughout 2023. you have to remember, they turned around from years of an anti-add stance and created their adhere in only six months. there is a lot of upward potential and room to grow year. >> interesting in that earning statement. he said early results they are pleased with but there is still much to do. can you talk about the culture of innovation over at netflix? that is what we have come to know having read the nose -- no rules rules book by reed hastings himself. it is all about how they set apart a different corporate
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culture. it is interesting to compare succession planning with disney plus versus netflix. but we are seeing disney plus and warner bros. taking chunks out of market share from netflix. how can netflix ensure it is going to keep on growing and keep on innovating and personalizing? >> it is funny because nicholas has always fancied himself as the greatest disruptor in hollywood history but now it has really reached a point where it is re-creating the playbook of its rivals instead of vice versa. the market emphasis has shifted to profit revenue which they are clearly emphasizing and their strategy of public narrative has followed. they are adjusting to the times. they are in a better financial situation than any other major streamer. the only one that is profitable at the moment with all of them looking at 2024 and beyond to finally get in the black but in terms of continuing to grow,
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they are really going to emphasize not only the adhere is a more conscious -- they also want to continue investing in non-english content and create not just regional has that resonated with latin american market but that travel locally. we are seeing that steadily increase in frequency over the past several quarters. but it's really interesting to bring up the global perspective of this business. i think it is interesting the way that investors have started to buy in. it was you saying that we are up more than 90% from the lows that netflix posture has had. from your geographical perspective, what levers can they pull? where will be growing the most? is it asia vis-a-vis u.s. and europe? >> netflix has years of
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unrivaled investments in overseas compact -- content. they really have a lead on the competition in that regard. the asia-pacific has been the biggest growth arena over the next five or six quarters. they will continue to hyperfocus on that. we have seen south korea become a major international hub for content both as regional hits and his neck and translate to the domestic audience as well. then there is the big white whale of streaming. everybody is trying to crack the code in india. netflix has gotten off to a slow start. they are behind amazon and disney plus in terms of market share but they continue to experiment with mobile only plans. they continue to invest in original content that covers a variety of regional dialects. they will hyperfocus on that area while still serving the areas that have proved to be fruitful to them such as latin america. >> i think we will have a
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conversation about the future of nestle's for many weeks to come. thank you for joining the program. i want to bring a quick correction to our audience. earlier, we showed the board that the share price of at&t -- when we met to show t-mobile which is going to take a significant charge from its cyber security vulnerability that it disclosed in a regulatory finding as the market closed. you can see t-mobile down 1.5 percent. i have my bloomberg terminal in front of me. i can confirm it is down 1.5% in after-hours. we will continue to try to find that story. some emails shedding light on elon musk's involvement in a 2016 demo. what does that mean for the ev maker? how does it market is technology? we will discuss all of that next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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>> equate this group coming from bloomberg news today. elon musk oversaw the creation of a 2016 video that exaggerated the abilities of tesla's driver assistance system called autopilot. even dictating in the opening text that the company's car drove itself. this is all according to internal emails fueled by bloomberg. we are here to discuss this coup. it is extraordinary irrelevancy that still has because we are about six years on and still debating whether autopilot is really what it says it is. >> yes. that is pretty extraordinary. this video i am referring to is still on tesla's website. it is a pretty seminal video and history of the company. there is this great video sent to the tune of a rolling stones song, paint it black. it is still on tesla's website.
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it purports this car is driving us off and the only reason i driver is in the car is for legal reasons. what we learn via these emails and via deposition that we will hold this week is that must really oversaw the production of this video and dozens of tesla staffers were involved and muska himself wrote that language that you see when the video first starts playing. >> i want to go back to the basics of the story. it is important. we are talking about some emails elon musk sent to quit a large group of the autopilot team. we have some of it we can bring up that i will be to you. since this is a demo, it is fine to hardcode some of it since we will backfill with production code later in an ota update, over the air update. what is elon musk talking about? what is the first, we got was an email that went out to the entire autopilot team in mid october of 2016 and he is basically saying all hands on deck for this demo and basically
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saying don't worry, we will continue to work on this code and continue to refine it. over the air updates is something that tesla regularly does. what is important is that nine days later, he admitted in a second email, he is basely saying this is the language i want in the video. cuesta languages basically ultimately saying this is going to drive itself. i am tearing you -- tell you where we are going to be rather than where we are in this here and now. the here and now is that there are loads of probes into autopilot from various authorities in the u.s.. >> this is the thing i think will be interesting to watch going forward. you have two simultaneous things happening. the first is families of drivers that died in crashes where autopilot was engaged or may have been engaged are suing the company. there are several civil cases going on including the case of water my gear in the bay area and that trial begins in march.
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secondly you have the california department of motor vehicles looking at autopilot on two fronts. both the technology itself and how it was marketed to customers. bureaucracy moves very slowly, i don't know with the latest is on those investigations but this is technology that has been under scrutiny for quiet sometime. i think what is relevant is that we have emails that are six years old but they shall just have heavily involved musk himself was in the creation of the video, the production of the video and with the language of the video will say. >> terrific reporting alongside sean out in austin. thank you so much. what are some of the ethical issues posed by how ai systems are built and how they are released? we will discuss all of them with interest rate, that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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lexus a few years ago, people were writing stories about how this was stigmatized and how people should not talk to ai. it is creepy and trained. this is not a question anymore. now the question is if it is ok. press the ceo of the ai jackpot that was built to last week. does bring an interest rate, for more contest on all of this. he is an associate director of industry practice over in london, focused on research, practice. what is so fascinating about your background is you have long worked in content moderation. talk to us about when we are thinking of innovations around
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chatbots and ai? are we up to speed for the ethical ramifications here? >> it is a very good question. i would say in general we have continued to not to the best of job of communicating the limitations and risks these kinds of technologies can raise in society. these are very exciting technologies. there is no doubt to say that they are raising all kinds of exciting applications. but they are not magic. they are built on a hidden process of labor that is often rely on underpaid workers. they can have very serious impacts. it is critical that we create these technologies to be beneficial. >> it feels like open ai for example which is behind chad
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gpt. that is very much trying to have the narrative of how do we ethically introduce this? what more can be done? where in the world is working well with private, with public, academics, governments for example question mark grexit is a very good question. one thing i think we can see more of his initial consideration of the potential uses or misuses of these technologies and building in safeguards that are meaningful to prevent misuses. when they released chad gpt, they were very careful to put in place safeguards to prevent certain kinds of dangerous content to be shared. even more concerning, it is not just the story of chad gpt.
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this may not do the same. i think a few things are needed. one is there needs to be more cross industry collaboration about the kinds of risks these technologies posed. there needs to be more discussion and clarity of the kinds of standards that need to be met. there also needs to be a bit more clarification with the public about those impacts. we need a really strong and stringent regulation. we do a lot of public attitude serving. we want to feel safe. >> the big news headline that i saw on thursday today in the relative of ai is the fbi
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director saying he is deeply concerned about china's research in the field of ai and its ai program. an independent research group like yours, do you see what china is doing in the field of ai? what the fbi are talking about and what others are talking about are the military applications that could pose a threat to society. >> it is a concerning development whenever you are working on these weapons. it is a point to acknowledge that that is not simply a china problem. many militaries around the world are developing these kinds of a technologies. oftentimes without much consideration for the kinds of race dynamics. in the u.k. and the u.s. and other parts of the world, these kinds of weapons systems are being developed. some excellent work being done
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to develop ethical codes of practice. it is important to acknowledge that those are not risks unique to china. those are ones that seriously need to be considered. thank you for staying up so late from london. why companies decided not to pay ransoms in 2022. an interesting cybersecurity discussion. that is all coming up next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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>> welcome back. >> let's get straight back to
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the netflix news in the future of the company and reed hastings. this is the former president of cnn. >> read looks like he is stepping back a little bit. then as you think about it a little further, an executive chairman is very different from a nonexecutive chairman. the executive chairman says i still have to clear everything if i want to.
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i still have an office right there. you will see me all the time. i felt when the elevated ted sarandos to co-ceo, that was the sign that he was the success. i don't know any other psychology involved with these people. i just wonder how that is going to play out. >> john, you let some legacy traditional companies. where does netflix sit right now for you? disney, warner bros., discovery, the data shows they are also considering whether they aggressively spend or pull back. is netflix a healthy company?
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>> netflix transformed the entire media industry. not so much by the content choices but by deploying ai data crunching to better understand what content they ought to make. and how to market it. they belong in the hall of fame for that. i think everybody is ignoring tiktok. tiktok has passed netflix as the number two streaming choice for u.s. audiences under 35. that is huge. gen z -- they are a tsunami and they are making their choices with short form video that does not cost anything. in the meantime, everyone is obsessing over netflix subscriber growth. the people are voting with their fingers. i run a gen z platform that enables fans to watch sports on tv alongside athletes and entertainers and celebrities.
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we spend next to nothing on content. we grow 1000 x primarily with gen z users because they care about the immediate, meaningful moments and they want to be able to get in and out whenever they feel like. that is very different than the beautifully constructed content models that the traditional streaming platforms are using. i think everybody is ignoring the tiktok elephant in the room. they really felt that is where the eyeballs were. you are saying is actually really social media. this new generation of self -- social media, let's talk about culture. you are someone who had to think about this long and hard. whether you are thinking about cultivating the innovative style.
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that is what reed hastings was known for, shaking things up. when it comes to reinventing the way people have freedom. are they able to take over and take on the likes of tiktok and their other competitors at the space with this new leadership? >> very difficult for established incumbents to change the culture. we have seen it happen at microsoft and here they are, still players. it can be done. it is a big mission. it is a little hard to do with three people at the top. that is what netflix now has. maybe i am covered by the fact that i am the media consultant for the show succession. it is always some sort of diabolical and underhanded goings on in the corporate scheme and the living room. culture starts at the very top. that is how cultures are set. it is a big part of why macgyver came back in. he was one man, one person who
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created the culture and could enforce it. trickier when you have the founder of the company still there. when i ran cnn, ted turner had not been there for a good 10 years. it would have been kind of awkward for the management to make decisions with the founder still sitting there. he had the good grace to exit, a lot of ceos and founders realized it was time to move on, when you're done, you are done. i am not sure how this will play out. >> interesting you would talk about corporate governance. it is also a question of bench now. now she takes the role of chief content officer, heading up the global tv side of netflix, content is king. we all know that. from your perspective, what are innovative ways she can think about content? can she think about how she keeps people glued and then the
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distraction of social media question mark >> they are looking at netflix. i shouldn't say that because it was on purpose. they have built an incredible data capture and analytics engine that eliminates the gut instinct of executives which are so often wrong. they are usually wrong. look how many new shows are launched versus how many last even a month. i think what she is probably doing even as we speak is doubling down on drilling into these thousands of different taste clusters that tell them what you like to watch versus what ed likes to watch versus what 100 other people like to watch and you are all getting hit with different suggestions and each presented in a different way because they also understand what kind of thumbnail pictures you respond to. what kind of previous and highlights you would clicked on rather than anybody else. they say everybody gets their
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own netflix and that is true. that is an advantage for netflix in figuring their way through this desert. they double down on the amount of korean programming they have now. that is because their algorithms are telling them to do that. you were just talking a lot about ai. another way ai impacts the entertainment industry and will do even more so moving forward is by its ability to make us dumb humans have insights we never could have achieved on our own. >> interesting, all about the tech back burning here. john kline, we thank you so much. let's give it a little bit. let's talk about ai. we have already been worrying about its imprecations for cyber. let's talk about cyber more generally now. still a big concern these days but fewer and fewer companies are actually infected with ransomware -- that is according
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to new research with blockchain forensics firm, what is the reason behind this? >> the head of cyber threat intelligence, wonderful to have you right here in the studio. talk to us a little bit. ransom attacks have not died down. it feels as though companies have some of the protections in place to start to stop having to hand over crypto. >> it is will begin a new good news story. it was encouraging to see our results this year in terms of this being dueled -- doled out. it has increased significantly. that is not to say ransomware attacks are on the decline. they are actually on par, maybe slightly depressed since last year. what this means is that victims, represented of's of victims and their insurers are deciding not to pay. that is in part because of concern over sanctions, whether
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they are paying a sanction entity but also, they are better defended, most of them to be able to recover without having to pay the ransom. chris jackie, i want to go back to some breaking news we got in the last hour or so. t-mobile has disclosed a hacker obtained 37 million customer accounts data but it did not include payment or current information. the company is saying it discovered the hack back on january 5. it traced to the hack to the source and stopped it within a single day, they are investigating and saying early indications that this threat was able to obtain the information through a single entry point serving customer data, it did not breach the company systems or network. i would ask for your reaction to that. the information we have, how, is that as a threat that global corporate's face? >> we deceive victims get re-victimized but this is not the first data breach that is
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affected t-mobile. but this goes on to prove is the underground economy that is fueling data breaches and including ransomware is still thriving. there are still threat actors out there that are able to sell data for money, whether or not they encrypt the victims systems. they are vibrant markets selling user credentials for various purposes. we can't let our defenses down in 2023 despite the promising news that we are covered in 2022. >> tell us about how we are able to keep up with ransomware with these new threats that corporate america does face, i was insurance protecting us now? how are we able to ensure that we don't have to cough up the money every time? >> insurance companies rb more stringent about the companies they cover. in order to cover them, they must encourage them, security
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practices, they must have backups is a big one. if the systems do go down, the company can very quickly recover and resume business. it is not foolproof. there is no organization or company that is immune. companies need to have a plan, what happens if they do get attacked? how will they handle it from a legal, pr and security standpoint? let's go back to the roots of how crypto has involved in all of this. much of the aggravation is that it is always tarnished with money laundering, used for drug money, instead of it. the whole beauty of crypto is you are able to see where it goes. how are we able to ensure that the money is moving and we are able to see who is actually at the bad acting front of this? >> we actually calculated this year that elicit cryptocurrency use reach and all-time high. only 24% of all cryptocurrency
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activity was elicit. while the raw numbers didn't increase, overall, it is a very small fraction and we are only able to calculate that because of the transparency of cryptocurrency in the blockchain. that also enables us to track bad actors, to recover funds, to pinpoint which cryptocurrency exchanges are rogue to be able to dismantle them like we did with the latter was changed yesterday which is taking down as far as international action, dismantled by international law enforcement agencies, also, the darknet marketplace that was taken down. we are able to have this excess is because of the traceability. it is only a small fraction of the overall cryptocurrency. >> we started the year with a fascinating conversation with jen is surely, the director of cisa and her message was the private sector has to do a lot more, right from when you are
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designing your product and its origins through to how you conduct business. that is why she was there in vegas, to get that message there. do you see the private sector doing enough to ward off the threats that you, yourself are warning about? >> i really view this year's findings of 2022's ransomware payments on the decline as a representative of private and public sector efforts working together. we have government entities doing takedowns of sanctions. we have private sector insurance companies tightening as far as what they are willing to pay, being endearing to sanctions concerns and the research community which is actively finding vulnerabilities. it really is that fine balance of not penalizing victims but being able to help them when needed. it has been a really phenomenal
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public and private sector effort. we rarely get the opportunity to quantify what that impact is. >> great to have you here in the studio, jackie. meanwhile, coming up, the tech behind fake meat and why the industry beloved by silicon valley vc's is now fizzling. this is bloomberg. ♪ get refunds.com powered by innovation refunds can help your business get a payroll tax refund, even if you got ppp and it only takes eight minutes to qualify. i went on their website, uploaded everything, and i was blown away by what they could do. getrefunds.com has helped businesses get over a billion dollars and we can help your business too. qualify your business for a big refund in eight minutes.
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>> we have to talk about bloomberg's big tech. it is one of the most read across all of our platforms was also about the big fake meat. lad made meat seemed poised to
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upend the world's $1 trillion meat industry and now it is beginning to look like a fad. ultimately, this is a technology story. it was an idea that you could use laboratories, innovation to be able to get something that felt and tasted like meat but had a footprint on the environment -- a better footprint on the environment. now we are hoping that the lab grown cells meat will be our answer. it feels like beyond meat did not grow in the right way. >> that is right. basically we had these founders come out, ethan brown founded beyond meat in 2009. they made these really big promises. ethan brown has talked about copying the structure of meat by doing it with parts he extracted from plants. pat brown talked about heem which is found in large concentrations in red meat and he was going to make it with geomet -- genetically modified
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yeast and soy. it would be so a like hemoglobin. this was going to give his burgers this meaty taste. both companies promised to basically offend -- impossible really went out and said they were going to upend it. you can browse promises were more along the lines of saving the world from health and environmental disasters. and that they were going to create products that were so identical to the meat that people love that the people would just swap them in and sidestep the animal. it really has not worked out that way. i think most people would agree these burgers are a lot closer to beef then their forbearers like morningstar farms from kellogg. they are certainly not close enough. meat eaters are just not that
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interested. as one expert told me, they are just not that into it. >> ethan brown likened it to the technology doing away with the horse pull cart, what they were doing in the lab would change what is on our plate, do away with the meat. it has no point materialized. we asked our audience what their attitude is to lab grown, lab generated meat. that is the answer. 47% responded said you know. does your report back at the findings of that poll? what is the attitude of consumers right now? >> basically, the market for these products is declining. people -- a lot of people tried them, when they first came out, they were very excited about them and now, people are moving away and there either going to -- maybe they want to keep their meat consumption down so they are going to something like lentils or beans or maybe they are going to chicken which is less expensive than these products. certainly less expensive than
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beef. a lot of people tried the product once, maybe even twice but they just don't stick with it. it does not stay as part of their normal routine. the people that eat the most of the stuff are vegans and vegetarians who are very much not the target. >> interesting. i have to say from anecdotal evidence, we brought in a lot of beyond meat and impossible into our family home. we have in a pair is vegetarian. my husband didn't really like the way that meat made him feel. ultimately, they were not healthy enough. it felt like lentils were a better option. are these companies trying to uproot themselves? are they trying to change? listen to feedback, innovate that a little bit more? >> they do talk about more innovation. they constantly release new versions. there is a new beyond burger almost every year that they say
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this one is going to be juicier, more moist, more meat like. impossible also does the same thing. they say by doing some of the improvements, we are going to make it healthier. i think for a lot of people, the idea of further processing is antithetical to making it healthier. they might say lower the calories or lower the sodium but that does not change whether or not is an altered, processed food. crush coming up the social media apps that amplified positive reinforcement. this is bloomberg. ♪ when you automate sales tax with avalara, you don't have to worry about things like changing tax rates or filing returns. avalarahhh ahhh
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this is the lexus variety of electrification ... inspired by, created for and powered by you. ♪ >> going viral today is the
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influx of venture capital money flowing toward social media apps focused on happiness. they just raised $2.6 million. they reached number one on the german ios app store four days after the launch and then there is gas here in the u.s.. it uses anonymous pull in cap a boost the confidence of users. this is putting a spin on the social media landscape that has private -- kind of been proven to thrive on toxicity. the science of happiness of kindness makes you feel good. as -- it makes the other person feel good. i wonder if advertisers get into that. >> discords ownership is being debated out there. the month of october, the app was adding 30,000 new users per hour in october. i think everyone needed to feel good at that time when twitter
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was all up in the air and interesting. >> the kids will save us. keep on growing their sense of happiness and positive apps out there. that doesn't for this edition of bloomberg technology. krach there is something very special coming up. we will round up the biggest tech news of the week on our weekly twitter's cases -- twitter spaces. if you lucky we will have a special surprise guest. >> we will talk a bit of vc, the biggest stories and let's get the audience. >> this is bloomberg. ♪
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>> the following is a paid program. the opinions and views expressed do not reflect those of bloomberg lp, its affiliates, or its employees.

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