>> caroline hyde in bloomberg's

san francisco studio. > this bloomberg technology and it is technology earnings that drive these markets. that is where the energy is and the news flow is. >> and whether the afintel tumbk forecast. >> are exclusive interview with fcc commissioner about how a tiktok band would work. >> we asked chet gpt to him come with a marketing etf. let's check in on the markets because there was a risk on attitude to trade. nasdaq up 1.8%. trading since the highest of september 2022. ms ci, all country world index up 8/10 of a percent. risk on attitude in europe and asia. the seven year yield push up higher. bond selloff. a very successful auction in terms of seven your debt doing sold. on track for a good quarter any

terms of overall sales for u.s. debt. the yields push up six basis points. let's look at what is happening in crypto. usually when risk assets push higher, crypto does well. of the last two days we have seen the hold onto gains. on thursday we saw underperformance in bitcoin versus the u.s. dollar. interesting change in terms of tone. up 40%. since the end of last year. ed: risk on right now but a lot of that is technology moving us to the upside. tesla is the big name. s&p 500, knows the hundred, that was driving markets of this thursday. tesla driving the most this year. fighting talk from elon musk. tracking salesforce. a bloomberg's group of that salesforce according to sources is looking at adding new directors. that pushed up the stock by 6%.

the most since november. some movers to the downside. ibm confirming at will cut 1.5 percent of staff in specific roles. strong free cash flow guidance for the year. that stock down 4.5 percent. let's get to the after hours earnings with intel. significantly lower on that stock. 10.5 billion to 11 a half billion dollars in sales. the street was looking for $14 billion. intel is still not quite there. let's get straight into it with an analyst at cfra. i brought you the top line forecast for the current period but what were your takeaways from the intel print? >> i think you noted any terms of what is driving the downside in the shares after hours. i think the outlook was -- the

contents is down 24% or so. that was the big thing. you think about what is driving the lower guidance. it is really two factors. kind of the weakness we are seeing on the pc side of things but things are significantly weaker than people anticipated. when you look at the q4 numbers, pc sales down 25 to 30% in the fourth quarter. need further sell in declines before we fully get to the bottom. maybe the good sign is the sharp decline in sales may is hopefully a good indication get past this by the second quarter. it will be interesting to see how weak things are. a lot of move go up. i think that is what is driving up the weakness under guidance. caroline: a lot of self-help

need because other wise depending on people working on inventory. are they doing a lot of self-help on the cost side? >> when you look at the margins -- especially the gross margin guidance, at 39%, the answer is there is probably more they need to do. it will be interesting to figure out what is going on because 39% at this point in time the lowest among our universe within the semi conductor industry. that is saying a lot. the big problem here is they are looking to do a massive undertaking in terms of technology transitions in five years. never been done within the semi conductor industry. this team needs to get it right first and foremost. even if it means losing money in the near term. at this point in time that is

the most important factor for them. they have not provided guidance for 2023. my guests is the capex guide has to go down. they are going to look to do some things here. they did announce cost cuts in the third quarter a couple months ago. they have to execute on that. at this point it is hard to cut given what they have got in front of them. ed: you mentioned no full-year 23 guidance in the earnings statement. the earnings call has started and the company saying it is not going to give full-year guidance for 23. also talking about the macro difficulties lasting for the first half of this year. guiding to long-term pc market. 300 million units. rake it down to simple terms. what is the problem for intel? >> first and foremost, the competitive environment has been their biggest issue in recent

years. his by the fact -- despite the fact they may that otherwise fnd has been chipping away in market share. it has historically been a good profitable business for this company. it no longer is. the environment is a problem for them. the cycle is the other issue. being overly exposed to two areas of the market. one being pc's which was a 350 million unit market in 2021. down about 15 to 20% last year. looking at this point in time given the guidance you are looking down at least 10% in 2023. the cycle is another issue on the pc side of things. also on the data center side. caroline: great to have your analysis.

let's get on to another key story. again about salesforce. sources saying they may appoint new board members amid pressure from activist investors. a list of possible appointments is the carnival ceo. salesforce had been working on a its board for several months as pressure continues to mount over profits and shareholder returns. you broke the news. what would these individuals bring to the board? >> i think first and foremost a prophylactic against the activists circling the company. we think jeff will burn with his inclusive capital fund. you see this often in bigger companies that may have several distant shareholders pure their we'll strike a deal with one group and bring some of those onto the board. it is often a way of defending against some of the other activists in what they might see

as some of the less savory claims against the company. ed: good to see you. why is salesforce under attack from so many different activists right now? >> i think a couple of reasons. it is less exciting. it is a safe bet. down 50% from its highs in 2021. unlike some of the smaller companies, it is unlikely to get wiped out. you have a safe place to park your money. the other reason is it does not have great corporate governance historically. that has been ok when the market was rising and everything was looking great but as soon as things start looking bad these tend to be the first companies that get raked over by the activist and you are seeing that in other big tech companies as well. i also think there have been a series of acquisitions that have been quite large and not necessarily that successful.

despite saying he was going to slow down he has continued to do it. stuff like that is a red rag to an activist because they know there will be some retail investors who have similar discontent about that. caroline: when it comes to tableau, slack, are we going to see such names as this push for disposals? what sort of discipline do they want? >> it is a great question at this point we don't know is the answer. elliot have been public in terms of their recent statements. they went to work constructively. that usually is activist code for lettuce into the board room. we will give you coverage to make some job cuts that would be harder to make on your own. in terms of separating assets there is a case to be made for some divestitures. some deal struck at a higher point in the market is difficult to see salesforce getting anything other than a discount.

ed: terrific reporting. that scoop moving the stock to its biggest gain since november. coming up, the fcc commissioner joins caroline and i all thing -- to do so -- to talk all things tiktok in a very important exclusive interview. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> national security concerns are concerns we take extremely seriously. as we have disclosed in the past

we have had discussions with the u.s. government but i am very confident through the detailed discussions we are going to have we will come up with a solution that will reasonably address the national security concerns policymakers have. caroline: tiktok ceo at the bloomberg new economy forum in november addressing national security concerns from the united states. those concerns have been building up. no action from the administration and some states have taken it upon themselves to implement some curves. in texas some universities have banned the app on their campus networks. what more should be done? doing let's bring in someone who has been vocal on all of this. the fcc commissioner. you have been outspoken about the concerns you have seen around tiktok. what perspective can you as a commissioner can do?

>> we have some expertise and experience in this area. we have dealt with huawei, a lot of companies with ties back to communist china. that is why i am speaking out. the action is going to come from the biden administration, the treasury department. reviewing this for almost two years now. the tide has been moving out on tiktok i think it has had a bad two months. it has shifted from a question of whether there is going to be some sort of ban or decoupling from tiktok from beijing. tiktok is still spending millions of dollars to avoid that. things are moving in the wrong direction. caroline:caroline: what about the direction from the administration? do you think it will be them and the focus or will it be congress because across the isle we see some agreement. >> it could be both. there is bipartisan legislation in congress.

publican gallagher, democrat christian the morphy have a bill that would ban tiktok nationwide. a bipartisan agreement to ban on federal devices. it could be the biden administration that takes the final action. there is precedent for this. we have used cfius before to unwind the purchase of grinder based on having connections to asia. ed: with massive respect to your office, the fcc does not have a power or a remit to take action on this. who are you backing to take action? who do you think at a federal or state level actually sees material change when it comes to regulating tiktok? >> we do have some expertise here when it deals with companies that have ties to the ccp but in the main this is an

issue for the treasury department. the biggest leader has been democrat chairman of senate into many mark warner. he has said tiktok scares the dickens out of him. he has been working with senator rubio. as we talked about earlier there is a lot of interest in the house in taking action. it is going to come from action on several fronts. i don't anticipate this will be a fcc issue itself. ed: we went to our audience and asked them if they felt what they sell -- the action taken in india could be replicated in the united states. 77% of respondents said yes. it sets an important precedent. as the action taken in india set an important precedent? >> i think it is a really strong president. india is the world's largest democracy. taking action in that context is instructive. national security but also

mental health. on the national security side tiktok can claim last month that they had been surveilling locations of specific u.s. reporters writing negative stories about tiktok. that is a nightmare scenario. we were at a point in time where tiktok has been engaged in -- trust is the most important thing when you're trying to negotiate with the government. if i was at the biden administration i would be disappointed if i had this draft agreement with tiktok in place over the summer and you see the subsequent conduct. i just don't see a path forward where you could cut a deal that would put airtight protections in place. caroline: ultimately you feel a ban is the only way. the e.u. before was talking stuff. now the word and is on the tip of their tongue. we have seen it from india. is there no way a deal could be

done with oracle? no way tiktok could convince there is a safe way of continuing to operate in the u.s.? >> europe is starting to ramp up their activity. government officials in the netherlands banned tiktok's on federal devices. there was leaked internal communication forbes got over the summer and they show a tiktok official said even if all these protections are put in place this project texas that involves oracle it remains to be seen whether product and engineering meeting beijing could still get access to the data. if officials inside tiktok and not certain protections are going to be airtight i don't think we should think they should be either. one analyst had's of a tiktok band at 10% this summer. for the end of last fall they upped it to 40%. that was before the bipartisan bill.

we will see. they are spending an awful lot of money. ed: there is one part of this equation we have not discussed which is a tiktok user in the united states. lots of people love using the up. many have told us they don't understand the risks. they are not well explained. why should tiktok be banned? how would you justify it to them , the million plus users saying we won this. >> national security and mental health. on the national security side it is pulling all sorts of sensitive data, keystroke patterns, according to terms of service, biometrics which include face prints and for years they misrepresented where this was going. everything is viewed inside china. that is when fbi director chris wray and others are raising the alarm. mental health side was interesting. there was a report cited by the new york times that had an account set up for 13-year-old girls which in matter of 30

minutes was showing eating disorder content and flash forward to a version of tiktok and it is not showing that. it is showing education materials, science experiments. it is troubling from a national security data side but also the mental health side. caroline: the mental health issues have been leveled not just at tiktok but it homegrown social media platforms. instagram is often having to respond to such concerns. how if we ban tiktok and users move to a youtube shorts and instagram how do we prevent that element from happening here? >> there is a baseline level of privacy protections. i'm looking at increased age restrictions for social media. a lot of this goes to social media beyond tiktok. i think there is something unique about tiktok. you can show what it exposes to kids under the u.s. versus china. it i think there are broader

dataflow concerns that go back to china. we have been looking at tiktok for two years. we have a big case developed. i think it makes it easier to deal with not going case and say this is like tiktok. we went with huawei first. that is how we approach this broader issue. ed: i think what we keep hearing is we have been looking at this for two years. these things do not work. but i don't think caroline and i are hearing from people in your position from the companies is an actual solution. are you going to suggest apple or alphabet through google dome make the app available through their stores? how are you going to make this happen? >> that is one appetite i have thrown out there is you look at apple and google have them remove it from the app store. india is an example. grinder is a president in the u.s.. that required the sale.

all of those are potential actions. tiktok is uniquely replaceable. a lot of parents look at tiktok and think it is like facebook or instagram or another social media we were following and network of people you know. with tiktok you go on and immediately you're being fed content from beijing to i do think it could be replaced with another owner or short form video application relatively quickly. ed: the fcc commissioner brenton car. we thank you for your time and the robust conversation. i know tiktok is a story we will continue to discuss. coming up, why morgan stanley fired some of its own -- find some of its own bankers and how what's up is at the heart of it. this is ♪bloomberg. -- this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: morgan stanley has find some of its own bankers for some more than one million dollars each for conducting business on whatsapp and other messaging platforms. clearly a painful reminder particularly if you are senior and you are facing a million fine. and a point system here. it is interesting these banks are paying the fines themselves and asking for their own employees. ed: they are clawing back bonuses already paid out because they are under that much pressure from regulators to make sure communications are done properly.

astonishing pressure from the sec, the ctc. can you imagine being asked to give back a bonus? i cannot. the other story that caught my eye was the bloomberg reporting around the nyse. according to a source it was they did not turn off and back on again the backup system. ed: human error -- caroline: human error. a deeply technological area you're trying to ensure there is never any disasters and through one person and one personnel issue a disaster ensued. ed: in the markets are that is right. as many companies restructure, service not doing layoffs. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: welcome back to bloomberg technology. ed: this week with the buzz in san francisco.

after a growing chorus of layoffs across the technology industry one company is going against the grain. the cloud software platform service will not lay off employees in 2023 that is according to the ceo. how is he going to keep that promise? bill joins us on the program. that is a pledge. how are you going to keep it? >> we have the platform for end to end digitization pad count picked -- customers have two things on their mind. they have to automate and improve their productivity and do a lot more with less. they are trying to take cost out of the business. they recognize that digital business is something they have to do well at. they are investing and they are investing for the long term. if you are investing for growth or you are taking caused out of

the equation with service now you can do it on one platform. you can do everything on service now's platform and that is why it makes it so compelling. ed: all told your stock rose 3%. were investors cheering the flight -- the pledge to not to layoffs or were they cheering the financial results? >> i think they are cheering the financial results. we are growing at the rule of 58 and a half meeting if you combine our revenue growth and are free cash flow margin, we are growing at 50 and a half. they say your world-class status is that 40%. we are doing something no other enterprise software company is doing. we are growing faster than the others and we are doing it in a profitable way. it is a reflection of what we are doing for great customers

like the schwartz group in germany. they are going for next-generation retail or the united states army. they are serving one million constituents. they're doing this end to end on one platform on business operations. caroline: you out of course -- of course added people to your business in 2022. would you make most of similar talent available and higher more in this environment? >> we hired 5000 last year. it is fantastic because on the service now platform you can literally run all your business operations as a company or individual on one platform. this argument young people or new hires are unproductive is not the case at service now because they do all their work on the service now platform. our productivity is fantastic with early and career folks or

senior executives that want to work for the best company in the business. we will continue to hire. we are especially hiring in engineering and market professionals to take care of our customers. caroline:caroline: now you are saying you're hiring but you are executing well in a tough environment. you're a man who understands activist investors. you dealt with them in previous times. as other businesses face the environment, how are you looking to talk to your investors? >> it is high multiples but that is because the growth rate is so high. what i am super proud of is -- and this was also reinforced by other media professionals the activist investors working with these other technology companies start the meeting off with we need you to look at the benchmark and the benchmark is service now. then they say their growth rate

is 28%. they look at their margin profile and it is the highest in the cloud business. they show them are free cash flow margin and they are we need you to be that. that is how the meeting starts. i take that with a humble attitude. we are humble because we know it is about taking care of the customers. we are hungry because we want to grow even more and even faster. i don't have an issue with activist investors. i have worked with them in the past. i have a great relationship with elliott management and with jesse cohen. i think they are terrific. at a time when i was with another company the offered good suggestions and rebuild trust and we did a lot of cool stuff together. here i don't think this is the first place they will stop because it is so successful. ed: is your company thrive in different -- does your company

thrive in difficult times? you were talking about customers moving away from different individual investors and coming to you for a one-stop shop solution. when customers do that it is often because they are having to make change reactionary. >> here is the situation. if you believe the independent research companies like idc, they will tell you i.t. for software will grow in double digits this year. let's assume that it not happen. let's assume there was no increase in i.t. spend. what is happening with customers when they have three or four technologies to do something similar they're saying let's cancel three and go with the best alternative. we don't want all four. during the hype cycle of the whole pandemic where people were trying to figure things out they bought every solution they could

get their hands on. now they want to go from platforms that matter. what service now is enabling companies to do is consolidate the spend. move away from platforms that don't matter and increase your productivity dramatically on one that does. take cost out. go for service now. put growth in. go for service now on one platform. caroline: it is interesting. you're such a positive person it sounds like and in many ways rightly so. i'm looking at your analyst recommendations. 36 say by your stock there is only one holdout and that is stephan at bnp paribas. what one thing would you say to him? what is one thing that does keep you up at night? >> i got to go speak with them. i think he has to have a meeting with me. he will come talk to our people.

but i guess one out of 36 is not too bad. i would tell him if you look at where the new economy is going, this is a platform economy. in this economy have the hyper scale which are all very relevant outstanding companies and they are going to do very well. you have a couple essay asked companies -- sass companies and among those that matter we are one of them. what is unique about us is whether you are doing workloads in public cloud, a private cloud or in multi-cloud formation, service now serves as the control tower for end to end digital transformation. if anyone understands the implications of that and the network effect that creates and the fact we have the stickiest most loyal customers in the business with retention rates

near 100% and same account revenue growth in your 30% per customer plus we are getting lots of new business, we had new business surge in q4, i find it hard to understand why anyone would not have a by waiting in the stock. from an individual investor perspective, the whole thing as you know, the tightening monetary policy is what compressed the multiples especially in high-tech. as of that now gets more normalized, you want to be in the companies that have the ability to give you tremendous leverage. once that tightening of the monetary policy loosens, gets more normalized, everybody in 24 hours or 48 hours is going to jump on the bandwagon to get in high leverage growth stocks like service now. you want to be there for the rush or you are going to miss out.

caroline: your timing the market, bill. service now ceo bill mcdermott. right to have some time with you as always. cupd -- cup read let's talk about amazon to company paid one to $23 million. the latest effort to unwind the pandemic air expansion that left it with a surplus of warehouses and employees. the market has been hit hard on the last two years. ed: i went to get to intel in after hours any the earnings call. down nine and have percent. accelerating on those declines in after hours. the big headline i saul is there is weak demand in china. talking a big game around controlling expenses. 2023 operating expenses under 20 billion. expecting big cuts in q1.

that is a stock we have to continue monitoring. that is a big reaction to intel's quarterly earnings report. the vc interest -- nbc industry is booming. we will speak with partners who have had it for a little while now on it comes to ai. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> should you be using chat gpt for investment advice? this is a natural language

processing. if you ask it to pick certain stocks it is going to sit on the fence. it might entice you to decide to look for actual investments that use the power of ai. there are a couple of etf's outperforming the market using artificial intelligence like the ai powered act etf. it scrapes information from the regulatory findings to help its over 6000 stocks analyzes. we also have the likes of the state street fund. it it is powered by ibm watson. it is finding the right stock to be picking and is up 10% on the year so far. the other thing chat gpt might incentivize you to do is stay diversified. when you ask about trying to find a balanced portfolio will recommend you spread your investments across various asset types to find uncorrelated returns.

be diversified. it is not that strong. it is the focus of the company when you ask chat gpt what to do with your investments it sits on the fence saying you can lose money or gain it but it was interesting to tell where you should be investing and with the power of ai is in your investments. what is so funny now a load of companies are starting to tried to make out they are using ai under the same way we used to see people putting blockchain on the end of their names. we have seen other companies saying they are harnessing the power of ai. ed: i thought the whole point of etf's was to be about passive investing. you are asking artificial intelligence to help you -- it does not bear going there. katie greifeld wrote a brilliant terminal about it on the terminal and bloomberg.com. is it passive if about does it for you?

caroline: talking about companies trying to get on the bandwagon of harnessing ai, open ai which is the company behind chat gpt, it is all the buzz at was feed because buzzfeed is putting to use ai to bolster its content creation. the new shares surging. was feed's market value hitting $400 million. let's get to it. . what ultimately will this help was feed do? >> i think the main point here is for buzzfeed sent an -- sent a memo to staff saying this will help bring a lower cost of the content it produces. i think we have seen ai a lot in the tech space in terms of algorithms. that is where a lot of us are the most familiar with it. it is interesting to see that they are wanting to implement it with the content it is creating.

it will be a show to see how this plays out. ed: the pitch is replaced journalists with artificial intelligence which for the three of us is an uncomfortable thing to discuss. let's talk about what wall street is saying about this partnership your the stock reaction says it all. >> as you said, definitely different groups of people who have different opinions on this. clearly wall street is excited about the idea of ai. we saw a share volume go bonkers today with over 200 million share exchanges happening. i think analysts are excited and have a generally positive outlook about ai. i think there is probably more to come. i think this is just the beginning of the discussion. as we learn more about the outline of when buzzfeed plans

to implement this, that will hammer down how analysts are viewing it. caroline: early looking into the applications of open ai for buzzfeed. artificial intelligence and generative ai could disrupt most parts of industry it feels like right now. every vc we talk to seems to be discussing maybe this is a new tipping point. the managing director of insight partners has been tracking ai you have been tracking machine learning since 2016. you have been taking stakes in some of them. you said this is perhaps feeling like the early launch of the internet itself. what is so important and impactful about generative ai? >> before the release of chat gpt many people had been underestimating the progress ai has been making over the last few years and will make going forward. it was kind of like the spark that lit the fire of innovation

and created a renewed fundraising dynamic. one way to think about it is we have gone from these systems of production like classification are recommendation systems to the systems of creation. you don't have these interesting powerful generative systems like jasper that can help you but a blog post or staple diffusion or copilot which can help right cope. -- write code. we will likely see the ability to create first drafts for all sorts of functions. eventually medical documentation, school lesson plans and things like that. ed: the thing for me is it all comes down to money. and the team over at sequoia capital writing this research report recently that ai has the potential to generate trillions of dollars of economic value. how do we get there to actually implement ai in a way that leads

to value creation or products and services we can charge for? >> it will be interesting to watch where the pools of value will accrue and where the economic boats will be the deepest with these technologies if anywhere. some people believe the economic power will go to the companies building the large foundation models because they require so much time and skill and money like open ai and google and others. some think and the modes will be deepest with the company's fine tuning the models because they can enjoy things like demand of economy from scale from having proprietary training data. i think it is a little early. it is still the fog of war around it all. ed: your cv is fascinating. we showed some of your portfolio companies on the screen. you interned at microsoft in your earlier years. you worked at ibm. who is going to get there first? a big tech company like

microsoft or the more number startups you are investing in now? >> i think the rise of generative ai could help to democratize access to ai technology. it can be delivered as a service. such a versatile capability. it may be easier for regular companies to consume without being as deep tech. i would say it is important to remember and is not just the generative ai companies making an impact. the more traditional ai like in health care we have a company where the ceo and her team have built a powerful technology that can tell you whether your truth needs a filling or based on its reading of an x-ray. catching cancers polyps missed by a gastroenterologist. there will be a lot of progress over the next couple years.

ed: we are looking forward to watching along with you. managing director of insight partners. you for joining. -- thank you for joining. moody's is working on a scoring system for stablecoins. they are the crypto sector's most traded tokens. the project is still in early stages and will not represent an official credit rating. we are getting a look at the list of wall street heavyweights. ftx owes money to bid the creditors include goldman sachs, j.p. morgan chase, wells fargo. bankruptcy court room documents revealing the list. other creditors include u.s. governmental departments, foreign and domestic securities regulators. the exposure does not reveal the nature or size of the debts. caroline: coming up, succession. goes viral. we will discuss that next. this is bloomberg. ♪

caroline: going viral today. have you seen it already? the teaser for the season four of hbo's succession. the march 24 season premiere was trending. hbo's says an average of 6.1 million viewers watched season three. the season three finale held 1.7 million viewers who tuned in life. what is interesting is we keep saying succession, white lotus. some of these key talked about ones. if you look at the numbers they are not the most popular. ed: there is a target audience. i get why the bloomberg family would begin to succession, the money behind it, the stories. caroline: the artcaroline: reflecting reality. ed: this is going viral. it went to twitter, #succession.

the video on twitter has 1.5 million views. people get talking about it because they love the stories. caroline: look at it compared to the young sheldon today average audience 7 million. yellowstone season five is getting 12 million in terms of their overall viewership. perhaps as much as the -- maybe just succession is really good at marketing itself on social media. ed: it is a case of know your audience i guess. caroline: maybe we are at. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. i have to get on a plane. ed: thank you for being here. check out our podcasts and everything we have coming up this week. this is bloomberg. ♪

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