>> i'm ed ludlow in san francisco and this is bloomberg technology. tech stocks take a bruising. we will discuss the sea of red as investors brace for a more hawkish fed. shopify plunges after earnings. discuss the company's revenue outlook with the president and bring you the latest on the ceo departure at youtube. a look at artificial intelligence and investing in it. we speak with greylock partner. let's turn back to the markets and get straight to the trading action in bringing cross that reporters emily and katie. what was the word at wall street this thursday? >> stocks plunged into the nasdaq 100 down the most 2%. felt like for the earlier part of the week stocks were not taking the message from the higher bond yields in the more hawkish fed speak but today they got the message and it was not helped by the fed's bullard said he might consider a 50 basis

point rate hike for the fed's next meeting. we know technology stocks do not like higher rates. but i did notice one part of the trading day more speculative areas of the market rounding the arc and novation etf at one point was up more than 1%. but it too was sinking into the close. there is still a speculative area of the market that is still in the green. katie will talk about that. katie: i have the fun job because i talk about crypto which rallied and for no reason. we are looking at the one-year chart. you could see since the start of 2023 we've seen this big rally year to date, bitcoin is up to the tune of 44% or something like it. then you look over the past year and it still has a long way to go, down over 40%. if you look back over the past year. again, i don't have a good fundamental reason why we have a hawkish fed, we have stocks really taking a dip lower in the past couple of sessions but

bitcoin is rallying on there is a lot of daylight between where we were this time when year ago. ed: i got the single names here and it's one of those names with the markets taking time to make up its mind. we started with the higher than expected producer price inflation this morning and then that fed speak came and came. that was a driver. tesla down 5.6%. headlines that they are enforcing your recall at 360,000 ev's from tesla. we will get to that later in the show. earnings continuing to be a drive. cisco up 5%, a strong for your outlook, top line growth. 9% above the market's expectations and then looked down 7%, that fits the narrative that emily and katie were going over, which is about the fed, higher rates in those more speculative quarters of the market. higher model software stocks. some of the bigger laggards on the nasdaq 100. we heard from the ceo of richard bernstein who gave his take on the tech sector. have a listen.

>> i think tech is the epitome of that speculative fervor that still in the market. you have this hope among speculative investors that we are going back to that previous regime and that inflation will suddenly subside. they will have 2% inflation, and we go right back to the speculative environment. we just gets very unrealistic. ed: let's stick with the markets in the text that and bring in our senior analyst. you've learned that one session a market does not make, but the fed giving us a clear travel direction today right when we think about the technology sector. how are you thinking right now when it comes particularly to the software and this higher multiple? >> thank you very much. it's good to be here. i agree with richard, there's been a lot of speculation in the market especially with certain components of the tech index. however, i have a slightly different view. when we look at how we got here,

q4 earnings weren't so bad, they weren't as bad as investors feared. companies were able to constructively take down guidance for the forward year. most companies had taken a much more significant step towards profitability and pre-profitability. and i think that's a big part of the reason why the average stock has rallied. the software was up 15% as of yesterday. that's almost double the s&p appreciation and there are components of that that were up 30% to 50%, not all speculative. high interest rates are tougher tech, plus we are entering a difficult part of the year. so it's like we give up these gains and i think that would be constructive. ed: we are in the depths of earnings season and all we could do on a case-by-case basis is look at the expectations and those that miss. but as you look across software and enterprising particular, how

are you discerning those sugaring and the environment and outdoing expectations? hilary: we try to invest in quality management teams well-positioned across their sector. up spot is an example. help spot reported after the close it be revenues by 5% and it be bps by 30%. the street was concerned because they announce a 7% headcount that about a week ago. they guided in-line revenues going forward and they got it eps 50% above the street. that's an example, which we like a lot. we try to pick leading companies in their category, companies like help spot that are expanding and product portfolio moving up and down market, doing things to determine their destiny beyond the markets. ed: we just showed a fantastic chart. i think we will bring it up again because it was that good. showing the nasdaq 100 pretty

historic relative highs the s&p 500. we are talking about elevated levels that go back to nearest.com peak. my question to you is where do we say right now would take valuations. we had a brutal selloff in 2022. we are trying to pass valuations as part of the equation around higher rates as well. hilary: not all tech is created equal. however, software and enterprise tech has been adjusting from a valuation perspective for two years. currently for software in particular valuation stand within their pre-pandemic five and 10 year averages. for growth equities, they are below the 10 year average in part because many of the growth contingents of the sector weren't as profitable but they are becoming more profitable. i think we've done a lot of constructive work. again, the market certainly can give back a lot of what we've gotten, but i would view that

give back as an interesting opportunity because i think at the end of the day, digital transformation in many of the things these companies are doing for our digital economy remain incredibly important. i don't think it's going the by any means. ed: how many of your conversations at clear bridge and with your clients are about artificial intelligence? hilary: many. ed: tell me. hilary: it's interesting, we are large holders of microsoft and avid fans. with interesting about this, even though the world is incredibly focused on surge in the impact of chat gbc on surge, i think the impact to microsoft in particular goes well beyond it. i think this could be a huge boom to their cloud business, productivity application business, developing platform business. all of that accrues to the cloud business. i think this could be a leapfrogging for microsoft in the marketplace who has never actually been seen, never gotten

the credit for the technology prowess and never been seen as a leader in an important generation technologies. whereas ai is probably the most important next-generation technology of the decade. ed: thank you for your time. take it from those market fundamentals to ai, completely different conversation happening on wall street and globally for investors. and it's getting us excited. thank you for your time. shopify plunging today as its revenue outlook disappoints. we discuss that with shopify president, harley finkelstein. keeping an eye on youtube as its ceo announces her departure. we will bring you more of the changing of the guard at the video streaming platform next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms, get to market at warp speed. and effortlessly responds to both of you. our smart sleepers get 28 minutes more restful sleep per night. proven quality sleep. only from sleep number. ed: shares of shopify plunging today after earning 16% drop, biggest and a year. the revenue forecast for the current fiscal quarter below expectations. must be interesting, at least five analysts raised their price targets on the stock despite that drop. you see it on a two day basis the picture they're telling the story. joining us to discuss, shopify's president. there's no getting away from that, that's a pretty severe market reaction, at least the reaction in the context of the

stock but analysts raising price targets. what is it that you think they got wrong in their reaction, the investors? harley: this all came out of the earnings release yesterday. in q4 of 2022 was a quarter performance matter to investors into the world more rather than the potential shopify delivery. he demonstrated that while -- is moving fast, this is moving faster. gmb was up 17% on a currency basis in q4. revenue was up with the $61 million for the quarter -- excuse me, revenue is up $1.7 billion for the quarter, up 28% for the current currency basis. on the top line we did well. on the bottom line we were profitable. we showed aoi up 61 million dollars. and we demonstrated operating

expense growth decelerating from q3 to q4. so when i think about the last two quarters, q3 to q4, i think shopify has proven we could drive improvements in our cost structure and more revenue while still investing in a crippling areas. you mentioned brands like supreme all coming out to shopify. so in terms of the q4, we are very proud of how we showed up. in terms of the expectation, people didn't necessarily like the guidance, we try to be prudent. we woke up and saw inflation numbers come out completely different. we can affect macro trends. we can make sure we are building a durable company that our products are beloved by the millions of users. we are higher in other countries and we are building a country that is operationally -- a company that is operationally disciplined. today's stock price -- stock-price change, we are actually executing. ed: my colleague jeffrey morgan wrote, shopify like a film that

draws critics or film that nobody loves is getting bad reviews from investors but then praise from others. that's kind of a summary despite the reaction. he talked about the top line and about the bottom line. i know that toby was asked about this on the call. there was a want from the street to learn a little bit more about the roadmap for profit throughout this calendar year. can you talk about what shopify is doing to meet its profitability targets. harley: we are not a company that was raised on venture capital. if you think about the seven-year year time post ipo in 2015, we were profitable five out of seven years. so we are company that has been profitable for a very long time and we understand the path back. we were cash flow positive q3, cash flow positive q4. but we are a company that takes its medicine purity think about the layoffs happening intact the last couple of weeks. shopify did a headcount reduction in july of last year. we are not a company that has been bloated like other

companies, but we are making sure the products we put out our products that are in our emergence. one was missed entirely and it was our attach rate of 2.85%. the attach rate which is effectively a revenue divided by gmb as a proxy for the usage of our products by our merchants. we have small business that come to shopify. also have larger ones coming to shopify. i mentioned to tell in supreme on the call yesterday. so we have all these different ones. not to mention wednesday, to shopify, we are not just helping with physical retail. we gave about four hundred million dollars of cash advances in the quarter. done about four play a playing dollars of cash total since the program came to be. we are doing audiences to help with things like returning ad spend and reduce the cost of customer acquisition. shopify's becoming the retail operating system and is not something we hope investors trust us and you will see the future, we are doing it now.

the performance was indicated. ed: we have about 15 seconds, but what's your assessment of the health of your user base, your customers, and others in terms of the consumer read through? harley: this is where i get excited. if you look at u.s. business registrations, the last two years have been the highest business registrations on the merger side. on the consumer side, consumer and strong. $200 billion of gm v in 2022. that's three times 2019. on wednesday when u.s. retail sales came out, it searched and give us 3% in january and was anticipated to give us one point 8%. the consumer is strong, merchants are strong and it is a rita operating company. we are happy and proud of what we are doing and we will keep doing it. ed: harley finkelstein, shopify president, we are crucial for your time. turning to another name we are watching, youtube ceo stepping down from the role after nine

years running google's video streaming division, handing the reins to her top lieutenant. joining us with more is bloomberg's mark bourbon, also the author of light,,, subscribe, inside youtube's rise to domination. this is a big moment for you two. mark: it's a big moment people have been expecting. anyone who spins tracking youtube and google, it's been at youtube at 2015. israel has expanded in the eight years. he actually worked with susan before that, so he is a known entity for advertisers. and more so for you to creators. ed: is susan leaving youtube at a time where they are pressured and challenged or is she leaving them in robust health? mark: let's say both. part of susan's legacy is on the business side and has been taking this asset in 2014 when

she joined youtube was a huge commercial success and other huge pop culture success but had never really proven itself to be profitable. they've gone through a series of crises on the business side but in the past five years in the business from what they disclosed as more than tripled. there is moving into tv streaming, they struggled a little bit on competing with spotify, but their fake threats now are tiktok, which is a much bigger existential threat, and then the larger threats that google has on the reglet tory side. that's very and clear about youtube's future. ed: some saw this coming. this is what susan herself had to say in a blog post that was published about why, the time is right for me and we have an incredible leadership team, clearly the reference. what we know about him as a leader and as an operator? mark: he's incredibly googly. he's been there since 2008.

people talk to me about this. this does have value in the sense that google is a very political place and in order to get things done, youtube is a division that has to fight for resources with google cloud, with pixel, and certainly having someone who's been so experienced in the company as an asset. he is not a media executive, he never worked in media before. on programming they had robert who is their hollywood chief who left us earlier this year. his replacement was another person who worked in google ads. youtube drop their studies to compete with netflix and amazon prime. they want to be the premier at place destination and competing with tiktok. ed: what if you reflect on in your book about susan? which a jew learn about her as you went about writing? mark: susan is a cipher. unlike sheryl sandberg, she has not built a public profile. most people don't know who she

is. i think that's been advantageous in some ways. they've been able to avoid some of the scrutiny that facebook has. i think what will be interesting going forward is she's described by people who work at google as one of the very few on the planet that has a relationship with google founders who have left the company but are still the majority shareholders and now is googles and she's clearly still consulting, but her absence i think will be felt. : bloomberg's mark bergen. a bloomberg reporter but also author of that book that you could check out. i'm sure you could get anywhere, it's been out since september and i myself will be reading it. like,,, subscribe, youtube's rise to world domination. something else we are keeping our eye on closely, changes coming to an app near you. meta and spotify are launching new features. rolling out broadcast channels that let users said text or

photo updates directly to followers. the idea is to offer another way to share post without having to put them on a potentially cluttered main instagram feed. spotify will launch a tiktok vertically scrolling feed next month at their stream. spotify executives will announce the latest features and upgrades coming to the audio platform. the move towards tiktok like feed as the company seeks to attract more of the gen z listeners. coming up we will bring you the latest news in the land of startups from hydrogen and fintech to ed tech, and we are keeping it global. as we had to break, i'm watching shares of doordash, pretty strong forecast, beating expectations, cost cutting efforts at that company really seems to be taking hold. doordash and dissipated in 120 million to 170 million in the physical force -- fiscal first quarter. shares up 6.5% in after-hours.

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ed: time now for the vc round up. starting with baijiu, which is in negotiations with investors, including tpg to raise more than 500 million dollars. the indianhead tech startup is hoping to keep its valuation steady at about $22 billion during that financing that according to sources. negotiations are ongoing and it's unclear if the respective investors will go ahead with the deal in baijiu's and talk separately with creditors to renegotiate agreement governing a $1.2 billion loan that's in

breach of covenants. song fire is in talks with investors to raise 200 million euros in a new financing round that would put it one billion dollar euro valuation on stocks according to the german newspaper whose sites sources. similarly here, discussions are still ongoing in talks yet to be finalized. over and pakistan, fintech start up helps consumers and smaller businesses attain loans raise a 7.5 million dollars funding round, it's a sign of life or the south asian countries bc market after a dried up with a global decline in tech stocks last year. it was led by chimeric ventures, ftse michael gove ventures and sane capital. coming up, microsoft says it's testing on ai on chat functions and its edge browsers shows early success. we will discuss all that and more. that's next. as we had to break, i'm keeping an eye on shares of draftkings after hours up 6%, this is a

company that posted topline growth above 80%, its races it's four-year, 23 outlook, some successes around here and in the super bowl, stopped to watch after hours with volumes very high. that stock higher 6%. the call is ongoing. we will bring you the latest stock moves from earnings season as we go forward. this is bloomberg. ♪

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>> i think there's hype and there's substance and we try to separate the two.

hype comes and goes. it creates is crazy animal spirit, you can't control it. so for the better of our part we try to ignore what happens with hype and focus on the substance. when it comes to substance, it's stunning to see the results in generative ai already. ed: welcome back to bloomberg technology, i'm ed ludlow in san francisco and that was part of our conversation with sequoia capital speaking with us about artificial intelligence. sticking with ai, can being takeover gout go? that's what microsoft seems to think. a report in additional findings after a week of testing new ai additions to its being search engines. more than 100 69 countries. the results, ai powered answers have earned the approval of around 71% of testers and chat in particular has proven a popular addition that steepen the against rent according to the company. people are using the chat that people will being beyond specific queries for more

general discovery of the world and for social entertainment. it's a story we have to stick with, let's turn to greylock's been investing in a ion machine learning for a little bit. and companies like debt, inflection, and many more. you see the names of the portfolio companies coming in. ringing greylock general partner, i don't even know were to start at the moment, every day there's a new headline because -- we heard sonya talk about the hype and the reality. where are you on the hyperreality spectrum right now in terms of what we are seeing in real-world deployment over at ai? >> thank you for having me on, excited to talk about ai, we've been investing in aii greylock for a decade. we believe that the shift is equal and important to the earlier shifts from the cloud software and the shift from desktop to mobile. i think every company will be in ai company and everything we do at work and how we live will be transformed by ai. i met out thinking a lot of this is real. one mental model that my partner

and i wrote about is the thing about how ai might impact our lives is the concept of a copilot for everybody. so this is an initial copilot project used by developers that helps developers write better code. imagine a world where copilots write better briefs. for doctors, helping them do medical diagnoses. for salespeople helping them sell software. if we are having this conversation three years from now, all of us will be using these products at file copilots in the way we work and live. ed: context for the audience, reid hoffman, your partner is one of the founding members of open ai, he is on the board, he invested through his own means, his own charitable funds, i know you guys track wet ai is doing really closely, we will get onto your portfolio companies that for you, right now, who or what is leading the way in artificial intelligence? >> i think you have to start with open ai and give them immense credit, what they've done with the architecture like

chat gbc, new models that we think will come out later this year, they are really at the front lines of bringing these technologies to lots of application users. they expose these in apis and we are fortunate to be involved with the number of companies that are leveraging these apis on the text in the image side to build products that solve different business use cases and consumer use cases. ed: you said that's your mind every company will be in ai company. could you ask plane a little bit more what you meant. saam: if you look at that capabilities for code and discriminative side looking at portfolio of loans in which loan is going to default. you are going to see every business have to have an ai strategy. we are seeing that already. you talk about microsoft and being, and there are a number of early-stage companies that are leveraging ai in different ways. if you don't have an ai strategy, you are going to miss

a very important computing wave. >> this is february of 2023, november 22 chat gbc gets released to the world. yet there are investors like you that have been at this for a while. my question is, how do you feel about that? now there's a broader interest that i guess you've been trying to drum up interest in this before november of 2022. saam: absolutely. we've been investing in ai for more than a decade. we could talk about company scaling today and having more impact. but chat gbc i've heard it described as the icloud moment for generative ai and the power that interface and the way that users could actually use it in the real world feel like magic. ethic showed everyone how ai could be used. but as you pointed out, we've been investing in ai for a long time. we are investors in the company that's a generative ai company that services contact centers. if you call verizon today, their center agents are using

generative ai in the way they interact with you leveraging the technology crest has built and that's just one example. ed: you brought up that particular name. we brought up on the screen your portfolio companies. how do you value accurately, look at the names you are interested in, how do they make money is on the top line one question, but actually what we are being asked more often is valuations, valuations, valuations. saam: it's hard to talk about valuations and a general sense, but greylock where early-stage investors who invest in a small set of companies with a 10 year plus time rise. depending on the business for different ways to think about valuation, some of these businesses are enterprise companies. it leverages ai to build its products and cyber security company that leverages ai. these are durable business models that have stood the test of time and we will think will lead to high-growth profitable injuring businesses. ed: i want to ask about snorkel because you -- i know you have gone on podcast and use them as

an example, as a case study, how do you discern these startups that are promising versus -- what i'm hearing from venture capitalists and your peers is, i'm getting 100 debts through my desk about 1% of them actually focused on ai, the rest just came to me. so using that as a case study, explain how you've identified this as something with real promise. saam: we look at two things, what is the problem of the team is trying to solve and what type of market opportunity does it represent and do they have a durable and compounding technical advantage in solving the problem. snorkel is a data science machine learning platform for the enterprise that enables large banks and insurance companies and government agencies to take advantage of all of these advancements we are seeing in ai. when we first met the team we were blown away by the teams back around having come out of stanford and published a number of interesting articles and results around ways it can be

used in contacts and fast-forward to today serving many fortune 500 accounts and enabling them to take something that feels like chat she tt and use it on top of their own data in and use cases that they can have in production driving today value. ed: i want to ask you about software companies, their society that microsoft may give them an advantage because those customers using it can get access to the open ai apis. so that makes them more attractive, do you think that makes sense as a business proposition for the bigger tech companies? >> i think all of the cloud players will need to have an ai story. the relationship they have is a interesting and smart one, we will see similar products get released by google by eight of u.s., that would be my prediction. and i think as you serve the next wave of applications that leverage ais a cloud provider you have to have ai capabilities built-in and you better believe that that's going to be a dimension on which customers

will discern. ed: we have to talk about ethics, and we have to talk about concern. the biggest concern is accuracy when it comes to generative ai. your take, please. saam: i'm glad you bought this up. this is why i'm so happy we have things like chat gbc in these products in the real world so that users can interact with them at these prop -- and these problems can get surfaced. that would not happen if these were built in the laboratory. i'm confident that these things in the real world, we will see dramatic improvement in c models and products that are trustworthy, speak the truth and act with higher integrity. ed: the phrase ai arms race comes up every day now. is that a fair way of describing what we are seeing in the market right now? saam: i think it is. if you believe, as i do, that ai is the same level of impact as the shift of mobile or the shift of cloud, everything is up for cloud. we are seeing disruption everywhere. we talked about search, it's one of many markets where we see disruption.

we saw what microsoft did with google announcing it in newer companies like our portfolio that are building ai native approaches to search. we will see it disrupt every market. ed: greylock general partner, thank you so much for your time and taking us through your take on what's happening in ai. coming up, tesla is recalling hundreds of thousands of vehicles. we will tell you why, next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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ed: tesla is recalling hundreds of thousands of vehicles after u.s. authorities said it's driving technology could increase the risk of the crash. the so-called self-driving data system may allow the vehicle to act unsafe around intersections, that's according to them. joining us for more is bloomberg's graham star an editor on our global business team. let's get it out there early, this recall requires an over the air update fix, right? but what is the issue here? graham: tesla will issue the over the air software up dates by april 15 according to it. what's at issue is these cars

are not behaving as of to the standards -- safety standards that they want to intersections. it is going straight at lanes that are turn only, it is having inconsistent speeds when this be limits change. it is stopping for extended amounts of time at intersections. everything that the agency says could lead to a collision. so they are issuing this recall. the recall does not mean that cars are being sent back, tesla is issuing a software update that they said should fix the issue. the company also says this is not caused injuries or deaths. ed: we are sharing a tweet from elon musk, as we always do, we reached out to tesla for comment, they did not reply, i personally reached out for elon musk, and no one replied, but later he tweeted, definitely the word recall for the update is an acronym stick in his views.

you can see also the shares eventually responding but down 5.7%. what do we know about the vehicles impacted? graham: the vehicles impacted right now it says it's a rare issue, but about a few dozen models of model s, model 3, model x and model y vehicles between 2016 and 2023. so, any tesla vehicle produced in the last seven years could be considered part of the recall. and i do recommend that if you own one of these vehicles to go on the website and see if your vehicle is affected. ed: a lot of our audience out there on twitter, on other social platforms and instagram are saying where you guys jumping on this, it's a software fix, wire you calling to recall? it is a technical recall, but the other point we make in our reporting is that elon musk has talked about how central fsd is

to tesla's valuation. that's what he has talked about in the past. graham: absolutely, this is about where he sees the company, and as we've reported before, what is marketed as full self-driving or autopilot often comes into conflict with the reality of the situation. the company itself says on its website that full self-driving autopilot should not be enabled without driver's attention that the driver should always keep their hands available to take over, and this marketing, even the labeling of full self-driving predicts agencies -- critics and agencies complain about this. this is also part of an ongoing investigation that it had into the companies autopilot and full self-driving technology. so this is a real risk for the company should this have any more faults and be something that the u.s. got -- the u.s. government is investigating a little bit more seriously. ed: thank you so much for your reporting.

snapchat user growth is accelerating with the app now seeing 750 million monthly users . joining us for more is bloomberg's alex. this was kind of the big take away from their investor day, stock kind of reacted positively in a sense that it paired losses but closing down pretty significantly, why is at 750 million figure important? alex: i was down in santa monica at the investor day in person today, and when they share that number, it was clear the markets i little bit of excitement on the user versailles. if you think of a social media company there are two pillars, users of growth in ad revenue. ad revenue is being really challenge, so it's a good number for snap to show up and say, our growth is not only good, strong, he grew 25% in the last 10 months, but it's actually faster than the entire year prior to that when it grew at 20%. if you look at the stock today, when that news came out it was a bit of a jump up, about two hours later was when the cfo

took the stage, and then started talking about some of the financial bit of the business, would seem to be a bit more disappointing. ed: and then we are showing that the share performance of a 12 month basis is still down 73% or so over the last 12 months. what did the cfo have to say about the advertising environment right now, because i'm not personally using snap anymore, i did when i was younger, but it all comes down to ads when it comes to social media. >> it absolutely does in their ad business has had pressure not from macro issues but because of the changes that apple made that made it harder to track and target folks. but you took a look at past growth in terms of revenue, which the majority of revenue comes from their ad business. they've been growing at a really incredibly strong creek -- clip until the past quarter. revenue was flat for the first time ever in the guided that revenue is expected to fall 2% to 10%, the first-ever decline. the cfo was basically talking

through with a lot of caveats saying if we come back to a stronger macro environment, if we are able to resolve some of the issues and implement the tech fixes that they are putting in place this quarter to improve their ad business, then we can return to growth. but, as we saw from analysts and investor questions when we were there in santa monica, there is skepticism around how quickly that macroenvironment is going to improve. this ceo fielded one of those questions about the macroenvironment and he said, look, things are still bad, but they are leveling off. they are not getting better, but at least we have some stability in terms of where marketers are spending online. ed: stapp had this -- has this target of reaching a billion users, that's the next step up, how does it get there? alex: they said the majority of the next billion, which they think they can do in the next two to three years, they will be able to get there through growth outside of their developed markets.

so, not europe, but the rest of the world, as they call it, of onboarding new users who have never used snapchat. in the developed areas they are smoke -- they are focused on young people. they said one of their key growth drivers in existing strong markets is to be one of the first favorite apps for people who newly get their smartphones. they already had about 75% of users between the age of 13 and 18 in their developed markets, so it seems like if those folks agent to having a smartphone in their hands, they are trying to make sure they are downloading snapchat at the same time. ed: thank you, on the ground there at snaps investor day down in l.a.. coming up, the story -- founder of the mcafee antivirus software, a character who helped define the modern cybersecurity industry. weird -- we will do a deep dive into his rise, but also fall. that's next. this is bloomberg. ♪

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>> in the 1980's and 1990's, john mcafee was a silicon valley icon. but after he sold his company and basked in his richness, things took a dark turn. >> i will not allow them to imprison me and shut my voice down. >> this season on foundering, we will retrace the life of john mcafee. this and wherever you get your podcasts. ed: let's get more into a deep dive into the self-destruction of the silicon valley icon and bring in bloomberg's jamie, host of this particular foundering podcast series. he spent 15 months working on this. what were your conclusions?

jamie: one of the things we were struck by and also the question we thought about why we wanted to do this in the first place is that john mcafee was practically irrelevant, somewhere who the conspiracists really kinda looked at, but when he was in his 40's, at a really formative time for a lot of tech founders, he was someone who was disruptive to the industry. he was someone who became very successful, very wealthy very quickly. in one of the things that we noticed and paid attention to was the choices that he made once he came into that wealth. and there's so many similarities between him back then and some of the tech mobile's that we see today. he surrounded himself with enablers. he recognized the outside influence he had and he made a lot of choices, not all of them good, and the way that he was going to deploy that influence.

ed: walk us through what we can expect in this series, what do we learn along the way about the man, about his business, about the controversies as well. he was an eccentric silicon valley kinda guy. jamie: he basically -- he came to our attention with the mcafee antivirus software program and we began by telling that story. and it's very striking because it is the journey of a man who goes around the world, works as a computer programmer and then he winds up in silicon valley and he basically stumbles along its new technology that is evolving. that the rest of the world is still only just learning about. what he does with it, the decisions that he makes, he's impulsive, he's a very brilliant man, but he also has a lot of ego and he also enjoys the

attention that comes from that. we spoke to a lot of people that haven't spoken publicly before and we uncovered a lot of things that he essentially fabricated or embellished over his lifetime. ed: bloomberg's jamie, thank you so much. you can go and listen to the podcast, the first episodes, the early days of john mcafee's career in the first warning signs is out today. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. don't forget tuning tomorrow, bloomberg technology twitter spaces every friday at 12:00 p.m. eastern. 9:00 a.m. san francisco. we may have another special guest to wrap this week's news. this is bloomberg. ♪