francine: in 1971, wire and plastic products plc made shopping baskets.

in 2022, wpp -- as it is now known -- is the biggest advertising firm on the planet. sometime between then and now, specifically in 1989, mark read walked through the doors and played a starring role in that transformation. in 2018, read became chief executive of a firm in crisis. the man who had made the giant, sir martin sorrell, had stepped down. today, we speak to mark read about a new age of advertising and how to run a business fit for the 21st century. mark, thank you so much for joining us on "leaders with lacqua." what does it mean being an ads man, ad leader in 2022? mark: well, our industry is at such an interesting phase, isn't it?

we've been through the pandemic. we have come out, in some ways, ever more relevant. but we have faced a whole period of continued innovation with new advertising formats, new digital companies being launched, e-commerce taking off. our industry is changing and changes all the time. but it is changing now more than ever. francine: but if you look at the pace of change over the last 10 years, it has been incredible. can you go through the same pace of change in the next 10 years? mark: i think so. i mean, look, we are a big company. we have 100,000 people around the world. we also try to have the heart of a small company. people working day-to-day on individual clients, working on client briefs.

it is that trick, isn't it? how we get the scale of a big company, but operate quickly and nimbly. francine: other rivals are focused on spending in tech. what is the future for wpp? mark: i think what makes wpp special is creativity. it is ideas. without ideas, there is nothing on these tech platforms. what would there be on facebook or instagram or youtube without creative work, creative ideas, and all of the things creative people make? i think that creativity is what makes wpp distinctive and where we want to invest. of course, with technology, how we bring those ideas to life, where they live, where they exist, that is changing very quickly. so it is really about, sort of, building out what we could call the traditional skills of the past, but blending with a real understanding of data and technology you need in the future. francine: your role is changing, i guess. is it still just pure advertising, or is it more advising clients and navigating these uncertain times? mark: wpp is more an advertising company today than we used to be. clearly advertising is important to what we do. when you start with that in the customer says what do you do, we are much more than an advertising company. we are as likely to be asked by

a client, how do i succeed on amazon as we are, what do you think of this television ad? so we have had to learn over the last 10 years. francine: what happens over the next five years? is it going to be amazon? is it going to be twitter? is it going to be something else that will be the hot new thing? mark: we do not need to make those decisions. consumers will decide and we need to be where the consumers are. it is our job to understand all of those platforms and help our clients understand what is most relevant, where can they reach their consumers most effectively, what is going to deliver the high investment? we are data and technology and fact-driven today. it is both the creative ideas but also the financial returns that are important. francine: how did you end up in advertising? mark: sort of by mistake, really. [laughter] francine: a good mistake or a bad mistake? mark: i left university. i did not know what i wanted to do. i wrote to a few business leaders and companies. i ended up working at wpp in the very early days. and when i started i never thought i would end up sitting in this seat, if you like, at all. no. francine: what do you like most about your job? mark: the people. i think, ultimately, we are a people business. we have clients who are people,

we have creatives who are people, we have technologies who are people. and a lot of what my job is, is to give those people motivation to tell them where we are going, to encourage them to come up and do their best work, to encourage them to collaborate. but ultimately the job is -- sometimes you think you are a psychologist as much as you are a business leader at times. francine: what is your best piece of advice? i don't know if it is psychological, but if there is an account you need to get that you are worried will go to a rival, what is your pep talk like? mark: i love pitches. i love leading from the front and spending time with teams. i love to see the work we are doing. when we pitched to a new business is often when we come together. so i try to put myself in the seat of the client. you know, what is the client going to think when they see this work? are they going to be excited? is it going to turn their brand around? how is it going to resonate with their consumers? as much as possible, i try to play that role. francine: how have clients changed over the years you have been in advertising? do they ask for different services now, because the challenges are so much bigger?

mark: i think clients have a tough time, don't they? we've never lived through a period of so many crises. they are trying to manage enormous budgets. vast, global enterprises. they need trusted advisors and that is, in essence, why they are looking to wpp and to our people to bring. a real sense of, if we do this, what will the impact be? from packaging through to advertising, through to public relations, through to design. and there are many, many new skills. the days of old, if you like, this was a matter of judgment. now we are more data-driven than we used to be. we use digital media in that way as well. so they have become much more analytically-driven compared to how they used to be. francine: what is the biggest challenge going forward? if you look at some of the technology companies -- twitter, facebook -- is that still where the future lies? mark: it is interesting.

in the first six months of the year, wpp has grown more quickly than the tech companies. google, meta, snap, and twitter. in a funny way, the challenges they face are somewhat different from the challenges that we face. we tend to have bigger, more global clients. we are not so reliant on venture capital-funded startups. so we are coming into the future in a good position. and they're going to be a lot of opportunities for us. francine: who do you see as your biggest rival? mark: you know, we compete with our traditional rivals, we compete with consulting companies. we compete with companies trying to do some of this work in-house. the great thing is, it has always been competitive. two people in a garage could start up an agency and they have done over many years. but i think for the major clients that we service today, we are in a really good position.

we just came off the back -- about a year ago -- winning the global mandate for the coca-cola company. and they looked at and tested every element of what we do as a business, from coming to develop great creative work in china or india or south africa, to can we embrace the media revolution, can we show them how to partner with facebook and google and embrace tiktok, with every part of our business? they selected us as their partner. that talks to the power we have and the skill that we have. francine: is it more difficult now, because of the cost-of-living crisis, because of the economic downturn? do you start feeling it already? mark: as i speak to you today, i think the client spend is amazingly resilient, actually. and we can look at next year and we can worry about next year. it is easy. i've sort of learned not to worry about things i can't control. i can't control the economic environment. all i can do is put wpp and our clients in the best position to navigate it. when i look at it like that i think, actually what we do is super relevant.

clients have got to demonstrate to consumers what they are doing. we are working with supermarkets to demonstrate how they can help customers save money. clients have got to innovate. they have got to, in many cases, put price increases through. the need for marketing is not going to go away. there is no doubt that the next 12 months will be challenging, but i think we will come out of it as we have done before, in a strong position. francine: up next, client and consumer. the ad man must speak to both. with people asking ever more from brands, we look at the balance between profits and values. ♪ introducing the new sleep number climate360 smart bed. only smart bed in the world that actively cools, warms, and effortlessly responds to both of you.

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francine: leadership is key for any firm's success. particularly in a creative industry. with more than 100,000 employees globally, how do you run a small city as a coherent business? we continue the conversation with wpp chief executive mark read. as we look forward to 2023, what do clients ask you the most?

mark: we talk to clients about, how much we can spend next year, or the economic outlook. i think that is the period of great uncertainty. i think what we say to clients is, those that have done well should continue to support their brands. because that is ultimately what they need to do. as we saw even during the pandemic, those companies cut their marketing quickly, found it hard to reinstate. we say to clients, do not be fiscally irresponsible, but do continue to invest behind your business, invest behind your brands, and that is what they are coming to us and asking us how to do that. but how to do that in 2023 means different things, right? francine: yeah. mark: like, what do i do on tiktok? how do i succeed on amazon? how do i manage my reputation? how important are these influences we are talking about? they are very different

questions from five or 10 years ago. francine: i wanted to touch on the u.s. consumer, not alienate china, and keep my repetition intact. how do i deploy that money? mark: will you start -- [laughter] what products are you in? francine: what should i be? let's say an energy drink. mark: we are working with a number of soft drink companies that are going to have great ideas. so we start with what does the product stand for and what does it mean to consumers? i still think you got to look across the medium. it's interesting, people talk about the death of television but in some ways, television is being reinvented, isn't it? netflix are taking tv ads, disney plus is going to accept advertising. so those channels remain super relevant. you have got to understand creativity today in a very different way before. we are trying to embrace different creative disciplines, from partnering with people in hollywood, and the partnership between the coca-cola company and marshmallow. the world of fashion and sport, those are very interesting to do.

then, you have to go through, how are you going to reach the consumer? are you going to go through walmart, or amazon, or build your own distribution channels? these questions in a way that wpp can help answer. francine: do i have to have a chief executive political point of view? do i have to call out things that are morally wrong? mark: no, i do not think brands have to have a political point of view. i think brands have to understand what is going on in society, what consumers care about, and how what they do is relevant to them. we read a study -- a media agency did the study and said 82% of consumers care about how brands treat people, treat social issues. take a position on those. so you have to think about energy consumption, what is your policy on sustainability? what is your packaging policy? how do you treat your people? where are you going to sell your product and who are you going to sell it to? those issues are important.

i think more about purpose than about them being political. francine: are those real changes? mark: absolutely, they are real changes. francine: do ceo's mean it? mark: i mean it and we think about wpp we have 100,000 people that are passionate about these topics. they want to know know where we stand on it so many of these social or political or societal issues. i think societal is probably a good definition rather than political. francine: how will the qatar world cup change advertisers and the relationship at some of the big sporting events? mark: the world cup is a football celebration, and to get behind football and fans. clearly, the controversies around the host nation are problematic. but i think our advice would be, as far as they can, to focus on the football and the support for football. it is difficult, i agree. francine: how do you navigate china? mark: we have big business in china. we also have big business in taiwan. i was reassured by some of the moves in the biden meeting with

president xi. i think that is positive. but again, it is difficult. francine: mark, there is something that struck me that you said, which, of course, you would advise clients not to spend less because it is difficult to ramp it up. is it like slots? like when you go to heathrow, if you lose a slot, then you do not get it back? if you rein in too much, it is difficult to get the eyeballs needed to sell more? mark: there is an old adage and i know half my advertising works. i do not know which half. increasingly, we know much more about what works and what does not work for clients. i think we can look at -- certainly in much of digital media -- what the impact is. do clients buy things, do consumers buy things or not? i think that a lot of the uncertainty in our industry has been taken away by the use of data to measure results. francine: and this is online? mark: online, but also off-line.

off-line media, we have many rules of thumb to understand how to use off-line media. francine: i know i get pop-ups for stuff when i talk. is my phone spying on me, mark? because i talk about something and then i have an advertising. is that the way technology is going to go? not the spying bit, but telling you what you want to buy. mark: i think we have been very clear. consumers expect a right to privacy and i think that is a nonnegotiable. and i think certainly something that we try to push through all of our work and everything that we do with clients. i think, at the same time, advertising needs to be relevant. if it is more relevant, it is more useful to you. so we can use data in a way to make advertising more relevant. but we have to do it in a way that is transparent to consumers, that doesn't misuse their data. i think this is possible and -- i think all of those things are possible with what we are doing, really. francine: what is the model for the future? we did a piece on this at

bloomberg. when you go into a shop and i think the mannequin is basically scanning your eyes. if you're looking at the shoes for an extra three seconds, that is what pops up in the ipad you're going around with. mark: i would not advise anyone to do that. [laughter] look, i think the cookie was invented for many reasons. it became this kind of universal way of tracking or spying on consumers. and i think that moving away from the cookie is a good thing in terms of online privacy. there is only so much targeting you can do. most of the world buy products from the coca-cola company. there is only so much targeting they need to do to be effective. i think ultra targeting has become sort of spooky, not helpful. it is not helpful to our clients. we wouldn't advise them to do it. francine: but if it's coca-cola, everyone knows it. what about smaller brands, my energy drink that i want to sell that no one knows about? mark: there are many ways you can build a relationship with consumers. do they follow you on instagram? do they follow you on twitter? what is the value exchange, the customers will let you use their data. francine: up next, with

recession universally forecast, how does the ad industry weather the storm? mark read on selling in the age of inflation. ♪

francine: it has been the age of the black swan. a global pandemic, war in europe, rampant inflation. how has the world's biggest ad

firm positioned for a slowdown? i don't know if there is an interesting client that you like to do more of? is there someone you would love to have on the books that you don't have yet? mark: i'm sure there is. we do fantastic work. i love all of our clients. [laughter] francine: of course, like your children. no favorite. mark: tesla is an interesting company, you know. so far, they have not spent money on advertising. i am sure one day, they will. i think jeff bezos said back in 2009, advertising is what companies do when they have nothing to differentiate themselves. amazon today is one of the world's top five advertisers. so i think companies develop and come to a point where they need to talk to consumers about what they do, why they are relevant, what they have to sell. i think all of those things make what we do valuable.

francine: it is interesting. if you look at the lifecycle of a business and the ability for that business to be disrupted, when is peak advertising moment? when is the right time to really go for it? mark: look at the top technology companies. google, amazon, apple, they're the world's biggest advertisers. they certainly didn't start that way. we have learned that in the modern world, differentiation is increasingly difficult. it is increasingly difficult to do just based on technology or product feature alone. brands are what people think of the company, what they stand for, what they do. that really matters. and i think that is what we are trying to do through advertising. francine: what was the most difficult day in your job? do you remember that day? mark: probably the first day. [laughter] nothing prepares you to be ceo of a public company. i worked for wpp for a long time. it was not a position that i expected to come into. the company had a few challenges when i started. we had grown. the debt was too high, we were quite complicated as an organization. and so, if i look back now on that time, just over four years ago, i am pretty proud of what

we have all done collectively as a team. it really has been a collective effort. it is quite an interesting thing, i think. francine: your predecessor was sir martin sorrell, so that was, i guess, a challenge. mark: he had been at the company a long time but when you take on a role, you do it in a different way. you do it in a way that is right for you. i look to where we were. one of the challenges was how do we integrate analog and digital? because that is something that would become quite complex, that we bring them together. two big integrated agencies that can help clients across the full range of markets and analog and digital. that was the first thing that was important. secondly, we wanted to expand what we did beyond advertising. we were just in the advertising box. we weren't going to grow. we expanded off into e-commerce, commerce, building experience

for clients, and deeply into technology. we have been on that journey of reinvention of our traditional businesses, but also the expansion into new areas so the company can grow its topline. francine: is it better being bigger, because you service your clients in more industries and you have more of that data? or does it not make that much of a difference? mark: what is interesting is the definition of scale and the competitive scale has changed. it used to be buying power and buying muscle. we would buy $60 billion of media around the world. that would give a certain leverage among media owners with prices. today's scale comes from data and technology and leveraging that technology and data investment and insight over multiple clients. so, i think scale helps but, coming back to the point i made earlier, you got to be nimble, smart, and quick because our business is day-to-day interaction with individual

clients. so that is the challenge is how we create that scale without becoming, you know, a big, dare i say bureaucratic organization. francine: how does advertising spending look next year? in the u.s. -- and again, is there anything to rival the u.s. in terms of consumer spending or advertising spending? mark: the u.s. is the biggest market, together the u.s. and china are about 50% plus of the global advertising market. they are heading in different directions. the u.s. expected to be relatively resilient next year. china, we are not sure. maybe another tough year. global ad spend will be up 6% or 7%. expectations next year are up 5% to 6%, so slightly slower. but inflation is 6%, so, you know, we are used to looking at things in nominal terms. we forget to take off inflation, which, sadly, is a little bit higher than it used to be. it is a relatively challenging year next year, but things have proven a lot more resilient than people expect, so we will have to see how the year unfolds. francine: do you think 2023 is the hardest year, or 2024 could

be even harder, if there is a lag effect in some of these inflationary -- ? mark: 2020 was a pretty difficult year. we go through difficult years. there are many reasons to be optimistic i think about the future for our industry. it comes back to the types of questions clients are asking us. they are much more significant, much more important. the secret success of any company is to grow. and i think that we, wpp, and our industry more broadly, can be really at the heart of our clients growth. how did they succeed with consumers? how do they reach them in new areas? how did they innovate? how do they create new brands? those questions are going to be just as relevant next year. this whole digital transformation is going to continue. so, these things are not going to go away. francine: what is the secret sauce of being a great chief executive? do you empower? do you micromanage? what are you like as a chief executive? mark: i like to empower.

i can't do it all on my own. i need to get the best out of the people that i work for. so i like to lead from the front, spending time with clients, spending time in pitches. we are a competitive industry. we are in pitches day by day. no doubt, we have to do that. but we also have to create a company which is collaborative. there is a tension between people who want to win, people that want to collaborate. that is what we are trying to do. we desire to do great work, to really push the boundaries for clients. but also a desire to work together. because sometimes no one person has a monopoly on the ideas. francine: where will you be in five years? mark: i think that in five years, we will look different and the same. things will be the same. our belief in creativity, investments in data and technology. but we will probably be a slightly bigger business. today we are 11,000 people in india, 6000 people in brazil, 7000 people in china. i think those numbers will increase. they will probably increase faster than the number of people that we have here in the u.k. or the u.s. i mean, we are a u.k. company in a sense, but we are really a global company that is headquartered in the u.k., and the u.k. today is only 12% of our business.

i do not know if that will be wildly different. but i think we will be bigger in other parts of the world. francine: mark, thank you for your time today. mark: thanks, francine. thank you. ♪ when people come, they say they've tried lots of diets, nothing's worked or they've lost the same 10, 20, 50 pounds over and over again. they need a real solution. i've always fought with 5-10 pounds all the time. eating all these different things and nothing's ever working. i've done the diets, all the diets. before golo, i was barely eating but the weight wasn't going anywhere. the secret to losing weight and keeping it off is managing insulin and glucose. golo takes a systematic approach to eating that focuses on optimizing insulin levels. we tackle the cause of weight gain, not just the symptom. when you have good metabolic health, weight loss is easy.

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sonali: i'm sonali basak and this is the “next big risk.” it is an investor's job to calculate the possibility of the unknown. in a market navigating risks tied to the u.s. debt load, a second year of a war in ukraine, and concerns about a global economic slowdown, the biggest