francine: in 1971, wire and plastic products, plc made shopping baskets. in 2022, wpp as it is now known is the biggest advertising firm

on the planet. some time between then and now, mark read walked through the doors and played a role in that startling transformation. in 2018 read became ceo of a firm in crisis. the men who had made the giant had stepped down. today we talked to mark read about a new age of advertising and how to run a business fit for the 21st century. mark, thank you so much for joining us on leaders with lacqua. what does it mean being an ads man and later in 2022? mark: our industry is in such an interesting phase. we have just been through the pandemic. we have come out ever more relevant, but we face a period of innovation in our industry with new advertising performance, -- advertising

formats, new digital companies being launched, e-commerce taking off. it is changing now more than ever. francine: if you look at the pace of change, it has been incredible. can you go through the same pace of change the next 10 years? mark: i think so. we are a company of 100,000 around the world. we tried to have the heart of a small company. w have peoplee day today working on individual clients. i think it is that trick, how we get the scale of a big company, but how do we operate quickly and nimbly. francine: other rivals are very interested in investing in tech. what is the future for wpp? mark: what makes wpp stand out -- wpp special are its ideas. without ideas there would be nothing on these platforms. i think that creativity is what makes wpp distinctive and where we ought to invest. now of course with technology, how we bring those ideas to life, where they live, where

they exist is changing quickly. it is about building up traditional skills but blend them with the real understanding of data and technology you need in the future. francine: your role is changing, i guess. is it still just pure advertising or is it more advising clients? mark: wpp is more of an advertising company today than we use to be. advertising is important. when i go to customs, they asked me "what do you do,?" i say i work in advertising. wpp is more than an advertising company. we are as likely to be asked to -- asked by a client "will i succeed on amazon?" francine: what will happen in the next 10 years? is it amazon, is it twitter, is there a next big, hot thing? mark: we do not need to make those decisions, because consumers will decide, and we

need to be where consumers are. it is our job to understand all of those platforms and help our clients understand where they can reach their customers most effectively. what will deliver the best return on investment? it is both the creative idea but also the financial returns are important. francine: how did you end up in advertising? mark: by mistake really. [laughter] francine: by a good mistake or a bad mistake? mark: i wrote to a few business leaders, and i ended up working at wpp in the early days. when i started i never thought i would end up sitting in this seat. francine: what do you like most about your job? mark: the people. ultimately we are a people business. we have clients who are people, we have creative who are people, technologists who are people, and a lot of what my job is as ceo of the company is give people motivation to tell them where we are going, to encourage

them to do their best work, and to encourage them to collaborate, but ultimately you think you are sometimes as much of a psychologist as you are a business leader. francine: what is your best piece of advice? i don't know if it is psychological terms but if there is a deal you need to get or an account you need to get you are worried will go to a rival, what is your pep talk like? mark: i love pitches. i love leading from the front and spending time with teams. i try to put myself in the seed -- seat of the client. what will the client think? will they be excited? will it turned their brand around? how will it resonate with their consumers? francine: how have clients changed over the years you have been in advertising? do they ask for different services now because the challenges are so much bigger? mark: clients have a tough time.

we have never lived through a moment of such crises. they need trusted advisors. that is why they're looking to wpp and our people to bring, a real sense of "if we do this, what will the impact to be?" from packaging through public relations to design. in many new schools, in the days of old, a lot of this was a matter of judgment. now we are more data-driven we look at market research figures. we measure the return on investment. we use digital media in that way as well. they have become more analytically driven than they used to be. francine: what is the biggest challenge going forward? if you look at some of the technology companies, twitter, facebook, is that still where the future lies? mark: it is interesting. in the first six months of the year, if you look at wpp, we have grown more quickly than google, meta, twitter, so the

challenges they face are different than the challenges we face. we tend to have bigger, more global clients. actually we are coming to the future in a good position. there will be a lot of opportunities for us. francine: who is your biggest rival? mark: we compete with our traditional rivals, consulting companies, some clients who try to do this work in-house. it has always been competitive. 2 people in a garage can start up an agency. they have done over many years, but for the major clients we service today, we are in a good position. we came off the back about a year ago winning the global mandate for the coca-cola company. they looked at and tested every element of what we do as a business from china and south africa, to can we embrace the

media revolution, to how to embrace tech talk -- tiktok, every part of our business and selected us as their partner. i think that talks to the power and scale that we have. francine: is it more difficult now because of the crisis, because of the economic downturn? do you start feeling it already? mark: as i speak to you today, our clients are resilient. we can look at next year and worry about next year. i have learned to not worry about things i cannot control. i cannot control the economic environment. all i can do is put wpp in the best position to navigate it. when i look at it like that, what we do is super relevant. clients have to demonstrate to consumers what they are doing. we are working with supermarkets to demonstrate how they can help customers save money. clients have got to innovate. they have to put price increases to it. the need for marketing is not going to go away. no doubt the next 12 months will be challenging, but we will come

out of it in a stronger position. francine: up next clients and consumer. the ad man must speak to both. with people asking more and more from brands, we will get the balance between profit and values. ♪ science proves quality sleep is vital to your mental, emotional, and physical health. and we know 80% of couples sleep too hot or too cold.

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francine: leadership is key for any firm's success, especially in a creative industry. with more than 100,000 employees globally, how do you run a small city as a coherent business? we continue the conversation with wpp chief executive, mark read. ♪ francine: as we look forward to 2023, what do clients ask you the most? mark: we talked to clients about -- we talk to clients about how much will we spend next year? what will the economic outlook be? that is the point of most

uncertainty. what we say to clients is those who have done well need to continue to support their brand. as we saw even during the pandemic, those companies who cut their marketing quickly found it difficult to reinstate. do not be fiscally responsible , if you like, but do continue to invest behind your business, invest behind your brands, and that is what they are coming to and asking us. how to do that in 2023 means different things. "how do i succeed on tiktok?" "how do i succeed on amazon?" "how important are these influencers we are talking about?" francine: let's say i had a $10 million budget, and i wanted to touch the u.s. consumer, not alienate china, and to my reputation in tact. -- and keep my reputation

intact. how do i deploy that money? mark: what products are you in , francine? francine: let's say an energy drink. mark: we are working with a number of soft drinks companies. i think you have to have a great idea. what does the product stand for? what does it mean to consumers? you have to look across the media mix. people talk about the death of television, but in some ways television is being reinvented. netflix is taking tv ads, disney plus will accept advertising. those channels remain super relevant. you have to understand creativity today in a different way than before. we are trying to embrace different creative disciplines, from partnering with people in hollywood. we just did a collaboration between marshmello and coca-cola. those are also very interesting to do. how are you going to reach the consumer? will you go through amazon nor -- amazon or build your own distribution channels? these are questions wpp can help you answer. francine: do i have to have a

political point of view? do i have to call out things that are morally wrong in my eyes? mark: brands don't have to have a political point of view, but brands have to understand what is going on in society, what consumers care about, and how what they do is relevant to them. we did a study that showed 82% of consumers care about how brands treat people, treat social issues, take position on those, so you have to think about energy consumption. what is your policy on sustainability? what is your packaging policy? how do you treat your people? where are you going to sell your product and who are you going to sell it through? those issues are important. i would rather think about purpose than about them being political. francine: are those real changes? mark: they are real changes. francine: and ceos do mean it? mark: i think ceo's mean it.

i mean it. at wpp people are passionate about this topic. they want to know where we are -- where do we stand on these societal issues. societal is a good definition of them. francine: how will the qatar world cup change advertisers' relationship to big sporting events? mark: our advice to clients is to think about the world cup as a football celebration. get behind football and get behind fans. clearly the controversies around the host nation are problematic. focus on the football and the support for the football. it is difficult. francine: how do you navigate china? mark: we have a big business in china. we also have a big business in taiwan. i was reassured by some of the moves in the biden meeting with president xi in bali. i think that is positive.

again, it is difficult. francine: there is something you said that struck me -- you would not recommend clients to stop marketing because it is harvard -- hard to start backup. is it like slots? when you go to, if you lose your -- to heathrow, if you lose your slot, it is hard to get it back? mark: there is an old adage -- i know half my advertising works. i don't know which half. increasingly we know more about what works and what doesn't work for clients. we can look at much of digital media, what the impact is. do consumers buy things or do they not buy things? i think that a lot of the uncertainty in our industry has been taken away by the use of data to measure results. francine: and this is online? mark: online but also off-line. off-line media, we have many rules of thumb to understand how to use off-line media.

francine: i know i get pop-ups for stuff. is my phone spying on me? i talk about something, and then i have advertising. is that the way that technology will go? not necessarily the spying bit, but telling me what i want to buy? mark: consumers expect a right to privacy, and that is a nonnegotiable, something that we try to push through all our work in everything we do with clients. i think at the same time, advertising needs to be relevant. if it is more relevant, it is more useful to you. so we can use data in a way to make advertising more relevant, but we have to do it in a way that is transparent to consumers, that does not misuse their data. francine: what is the model for the future? we did a piece on this in bloomberg, when you go into a shop and the manikin is scanning your eyes. if you are looking at the shoes for an extra three seconds, it

shows up on your ipad. mark: i would not advise anyone to do that! francine: [laughter] mark: the cookie was invented for many reasons, but it was a -- became a universal way of tracking or spying on consumers. moving away from the cookie is a good thing in terms of online privacy. there's only so much targeting you can do. most of the world buys coca-cola products. there is only so much targeting they need to do to be effective. ultra targeting has become sort of spooky. it is not helpful. francine: but if it is coca-cola, everybody knows it. what about a smaller brand like my energy drink that nobody knows about? mark: there are many ways you can build a relationships with -- can build a relationship with consumers. do they follow you on instagram? do they follow you on twitter? there is a value exchange. francine: with a recession

universally forecast, how does the ad industry weather the storm? mark read on selling in the time -- age of inflation. ♪

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positioning for a slowdown? is there an interesting client you would like to do more of? is there a client you would like to have on the books who you do not have yet? mark: i'm sure there is. we do fantastic work. i love all of our clients. francine: of course, like her -- your children, no favorite. mark: tesla is an interesting company. so far they have not spent money on advertising. i'm sure one day they will. i think jeff bezos said in 2009 that advertising is what companies do when they have nothing to differentiate themselves. amazon today is one of the world's top five advertisers. companies develop and they come to a point where they have a need to talk to consumers about what they need or what they need to sell. all of those things make what we do valuable. francine: if you look at the lifecycle of a business, and the ability for that business to be disrupted, when is peak advertising welcomed?

when is the right time to go for it? mark: look at the technology companies -- google, amazon, apple are some of the world's biggest advertisers. they didn't start that way. we have learned that in the modern world differentiation is increasingly difficult to do based on technology or product feature alone. brands, what people think of a company, what they stand for, what they do really matters, and that is what we are trying to do through advertising. francine: what was the most difficult day in your job? do you remember that day? mark: probably the first day! [laughter] nothing but a pleasure to be a ceo of a public company. i worked for wpp for some time. it was not a position i had expected to go into. if we face it, the company had a few challenges when i started. our debt was too high. we were quite complicated as an organization. if i look back on that time just over 4 years ago, i'm proud. what we have done collectively as a team has been a collective effort.

quiet and interesting thing, i think. francine: your predecessor was sir martin sorrell, which was a challenge. mark: he had been at the company for a long time. when you take on a role, you do it in a different way. you do it in a way that is right for you. i looked at where we were. one of the challenges was how do we integrate analog and digital? that is something that had become quite complex. we created vmo1, our 2 big integrated agencies that could help clients integrate analog and digital. that was the first thing that was important. secondly, we wanted to expand what we do beyond advertising. we were just in the advertising box. we were not going to grow. we expanded off into e-commerce, into commerce, into building experiences for clients. we have been on that journey of

reinvention of our traditional businesses and expansion into new areas so the company can grow its top line. francine: is it better being bigger because you service your clients in more industries and you have more data? mark: what is interesting is the definition of scale. it used to be buying power, buying muscle. we buy $60 billion of media around the world, that would give us leverage to get better prices. today's strength comes from leveraging technology and insight over multiple clients. scale helps, but you have to be nimble, smart, and quick. our business is day-to-day interactions with individual clients. how do we create that scale? without becoming a bureaucratic organization, which is the last thing i want to run.

francine: how does spending look like next year in the u.s.? is there anywhere to rival the u.s. in terms of advertising spending? mark: the u.s. is the biggest market. together, the u.s. and china are 50% of the global advertising. the u.s. is expected to be relatively resilient next year. china, we are not sure. it may be another tough year. global ad spend is going to be up 6% to 7%. inflation is now 6%. we are used to looking at things in nominal terms. we forget to take off inflation, which is a little higher than it used to be. i think a relatively challenging year next year, but things will -- have proven more resilient than people expect. francine: do you think 2023 is the hardest year or that 2024 could be even harder? mark: 2020 was a pretty difficult year! [laughter]

we are going through difficult years. there are many reasons to be optimistic about the future of our industry. it comes back to the types of questions clients are asking us. they are much more significant. there much more important. the secret to success for any company is to grow, and wpp and our industry more broadly can be at the heart of our clients' growth. how do they succeed with consumers? how do they reach them in new areas? how do they innovate? how do they create new brands? those questions will be just as relevant next year, and this whole digital transformation is going to continue. these things are not going to go away. francine: what is the secret sauce of being an executive? do you empower? do you micromanage? mark: i like to empower. i cannot do it all on my own. i need to get the best out of the people i work for. i like to lead from the front, spending time with clients, spending time in pages. -- time in pitches. we are a competitive industry.

we win or lose. we have to do that. we have to create a company that is collaborative. i don't think there is a tension between people who want to win and people who want to collaborate. we desire to do work, to try to push boundaries for clients. no one person has a monopoly on ideas. francine: where will you be in 5 years? mark: in five years we will look different and the same. the same is -- we will probably be a slightly bigger business. the numbers in china and india will increase. -- today we are 11,000 people in india, 7000 people in china. i think those numbers will increase. we are a u.k. company, but we are really a global company that is headquartered in the u.k. the u.k. today is only 12% of our business. i don't know that will be wildly different but i think we will be bigger in other parts of the

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