>> from the heart of where innovation, money, and power glide in silicon valley and beyond, this is bloomberg technology with caroline hyde and ed ludlow. caroline: i'm caroline hyde in new york. ed: and i'm ed ludlow in san francisco. caroline: coming up, we will look the implications of trump's indictment on his ability to

communicate with his own followers through the truth social app. plus will discuss the escalating technology war between the u.s. and china as japan joins united states and the netherlands and restricting exports of chipmaking gear to china. we get a read on that case for eb dominance. we returned to the markets. we returned some of the news around japan, joining the u.s. and the netherlands in terms of restricting the exports of chip industry over to china and its impact on the sops, down 2.2%. nasdaq down off of its highs. basically seeing risk aversion in the market. we are worried about banks and economic data pointing towards the u.s. recession. seeing yields down 11 basis points. what has managed to withstand some of the turbulence in the stock market has been bitcoin.

it is off slightly by a quarter of a percent. we are basically stopping out at 28,000. great reports coming on the bloomberg. i know you will dig into some of the micro data. ed: there a lot of positive headlines on the bloomberg but not supporting individual stocks. microsoft and palantir firmly lower but they've expanded their cloud partnership. it has not held onto those gains. ai tracking its worst session 24 hours ago, on track for its worst two day drop ever. i just put disease scale there because it is part of the risk off mode. the worst performers, higher multiple software names getting hit. there is an emphasis on stocks related to conservative social media platforms. digital acquisition, the spac due to trait -- do take truth social public is sliding down another 5%. rumbled down 6.3%.

very short-lived feel good the conservative social media names when the new cycle around trump started. caroline: we will dig into the social media names in a moment. let's turn towards donald trump's indictment. the former president saying it is all political. district attorney alvin bragg says trump engaged in a catch and kill steam. >> that is a scheme to buy and suppress negative information to help mr. trump's chance of winning the election. >> this fake case was brought only to interfere with the upcoming 2024 election and it should be dropped immediately. caroline: with us to wrap it all up as well as some of those tech angles, bloomberg's kriti gupta. extraordinary day. talk to us a little bit about what you are seeing after the impact. it was historical in many ways. kriti: it was historical in many

ways. the potential first criminal conviction to any president in american history. it is a massive deal. is it going to disqualify him from president? the answer is no. there are other cases that could do that. things like treason and moving classified documents. today the conviction we have heard, it is interesting the way it has turned into banter for his campaign for 2024. that will be the crucial takeaway. at what point illegal allegations rally his base? social media is a great part of that. a great example is when he went back to mar-a-lago last evening he called out the likes of twitter, meta, which is interesting, because it is only recently he has been allowed back onto those platforms. ed: both the judge and the district attorney had something to say about the impact of social media and trump's use of it. what did they say? kriti: it has been a careful

maneuvering and how the case was handled. a mugshot is typical when you have arraignment. this time the mugshot did not happen for the reason of its use as a campaign ploy. the prosecutor did say president trump has a massive race and a lot of influence. can there be a court order for president trump to not use social media it when it comes to the developments of this case? the judge saying no, we are not going to put that court order, but we are going to discourage that. whether that changes at the next hearing will be the real story. for now all is fair game when it comes to social media. ed: thank you. let's stick with it. more on trump and truth social. let's bring in galen's talking. -- galen stocking who published a report on the numbers behind truth social.

what has your read been on how the arraignment of former president trump has driven traffic to those more conservative social platforms? galen: we do not have any numbers that have been updated since last year. what we have seen reported elsewhere is there has been increased traffic to truth social since the news of the indictment came out. caroline: the impact of these more right leaning social media offerings that we saw all at once come to an already crowded space. your report in october highlighted truth social and he went into gab, parler, rumble, telegram. how prevalent was the use in that report of october and are they impactful in terms of where people get their news? galen: 6% use any of the seventh social media sites we were looking at, including truth

social. truth social was used by 2% of u.s. adults after just three months of it being released to the public. it was released to the public in february 2022. we conducted the survey in may of 2022. what we found was people believe they are being informed when they use these sites. 56% of the users of any of these sites say that staying informed is a major reason to use them. most of the news they are getting is government and politics news. about half of them are saying they are seeing news there they would not see somewhere else. this -- these are becoming crucial parts of the media diet for many americans. caroline: put it into context versus facebook, versus twitter? galen: we found 2% use truth social as a source for news.

that is much lower than many other platforms. 31% use facebook, 25% use youtube. twitter and instagram and tiktok were all in the teens. caroline: what is interesting is how important some of these mainstays, the facebooks, the twitters were for president trump in his previous election campaigns. ed: carolyn and i have been tracking the reinstatement of former president trump to platforms like twitter and meta and that arraignment proceedings. the judge cited irresponsible social media post. what is the concern from the judge about those post? galen: i cannot speak to any concerns the judge might have had, but what i can point you to his how much he is using these other platforms since he has been reinstated. he was reinstated on twitter a few months ago. he has not tweeted since then.

reinstated on youtube a couple weeks ago. he has posted one video. on facebook, he and his campaign is using that platform. last night when he gave his speech at mar-a-lago, links to the speech were posted on truth social and facebook and on rumble, but not on any of the other platforms. we do not know what he will do in the future. it is clear he has been using truth social quite frequently to express his views. ed: the point caroline and i are pointing out is that social media was the modus operandi by which trump communicated with his base. he is not on twitter or facebook. do you see the message he is putting on truth social permeate those platforms? galen: when we looked in may at these platforms, one of the things we looked at it is what is happening outside of donald trump. we wanted to see what other

kinds of accounts were saying and how they were presenting themselves. we looked at 200 of the most followed accounts on truth social in june of 2022. one of the things we looked at his their profiles, their banners, and we found about half of them were saying they were conservative or republican or pro-trump. they are projecting this air of right-leaning attitude on the platform itself. others had projecting religious identity, a message of patriotism, and we connected that back to the survey, we found that people tended to say they had found a sense of community on the sites they were using, looking more broadly at all of the sites, to the point that 65% of users of any of these sites said they had found a community of people who share their views on those platforms. caroline: truth social says it

is nonpartisan and all about free speech. is it doing that? is it nonpartisan? galen: it is difficult to do a full summary of everything truth social does or does not do. it does say that it is a nonpartisan site. there have been reports of truth social banning users for banning posts that have partisan messages that people disagree with. it is difficult to tell the extent to which this is happening overall. caroline: we thank you for bringing us the research. galen stocking. sticking with social media, according to estimates by similar web which analyzes internet traffic twitter is struggling to sell users on its new subscription product, twitter blue. only 116,000 people signed up out of 1.6 billion people who visit twitter.

or than 500 million people who use twitter on a monthly basis -- the operating bases has declined by half between october and march. elon musk tweeted that last monday. ed: i want to turn to sad news in the world of technology. bob dudley, father of 2 -- bob lee, father of two, has died. there was an outpouring of grief from social media after lee's passing. that includes statements at companies where lee was serving as chief product officer. san francisco's police department said it was investigating a fatal stabbing incident on main street. the san francisco chronicle reported lee was the victim. he was also the support -- also the creator of cashapp and make

contributions to the android platform on google. bob lee was 43. ♪

caroline: taiwan's president is in los angeles meeting with a bipartisan group of u.s. lawmakers led by kevin mccarthy. it is the first time a taiwan leader will meet with -- china said it would closely monitor the situation. tomorrow in san francisco the group will have lunch with executives from google and microsoft and apple ceo tim cook. this is trade tensions continue to ramp up between developed nations and china. japan has just decided to join the u.s. and the netherlands in

restricting exports of chipmaking goods to china. will this give the allies a powerful leg up? will discuss it all with ian king. how integral are some of the players in japan to china? ian: they are very important parts of the food chain. tokyo is the standout. it is a company that is broadly similar to materials in the u.s.. very important machinery you have to have if you want to make a leading edge line for semiconductors. japan is home to another -- to a number of other companies which do very important things, materials, testing, that kind of thing. this is a step forward and with the biden administration has been hoping to achieve. how far of a to interpretation. ed: the story gives a sense of how global the supply chain is. we are talking about specific

technology that is hardware that manufactures the chips, not the chips themselves. ian: 100%. it is diverse, it is all over the world, but there are five or six companies, three companies here, and a couple in japan, you need machines, you need access to technology. if you do not have that you cannot be a modern semiconductor producer. ed: how does china respond? do they have companies of their own that are able to develop technology at a similar level? caroline: short-term, not even close. long-term, the argument from those who oppose this kind of rule is there going to push them further towards accelerating their own efforts to cut us out, our ability to influence them on a family basis will go away. caroline: we have seen an impact on u.s. chipmakers. we have seen the stocks index down, we have seen impacts on nvidia.

is this something we are going to see curtailing the business models, the ongoing revenue streams for the companies? ian: it has already happened. this is an ongoing concern, and ongoing clout, describe it how you want, something people need to be conscious of, this idea of decoupling. china is the biggest market for semiconductors. if you a shareholder of these companies, whether they are european or north american, you want your company to do business there. if they cannot that is a problem. caroline: i know you touched on it a moment ago, but it sits china back how far, how long? can we make some sort of view on whether this has given the u.s. and its allies a leg up? ian: that is a very difficult question to answer. i think most people would say you cut them off from our technology and we are talking years before they can even get to parity, maybe never.

the flipside of that is companies here are saying if you look at the fine print, with the japanese are doing and what the dutch is doing is nowhere near as severe as what we are doing. unless we have this consensus, we are not really doing what we are supposed to be doing. there is a debate as to how effective these rules are going to be. ed: thanks to bloomberg's ian king on the chip beat. apple trying to reduce its dependence on china for its iphone manufacturing. more on that next. take a look at apple shares. a lot of analysis of how apple will fare. politically, u.s. china, but also supply chain down 2%. this is bloomberg. ♪

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caroline: amazon and microsoft cloud service could face a full-blown antitrust probe after the digital regulator says it found evidence that firms may be abusing their market power making it hard for people to switch or use multiple cloud suppliers. ofcom says it is concerned about the u.s. tech firms because of their dominant position. there is another big tech company. meta. that is after italy's competition authority opened a pro over allegations while negotiating with the country's main artist rights organizations. the watchdog says meta may have withheld information needed to carry out negotiations. in asia foxconn increased revenue year on year but only by

4% last quarter, understanding how fears of recession are cribbing demands of iphone and other consumer-electronics. the revenue is down steeply from the previous three months, when a covid outbreak prompted protests in its main facility in central china disrupting iphone production for weeks. we will take in more. ed: two tech names re-examining their electronic supply chain, which is centering on china. let's dive deeper into all things apple and how it is laying the foundation to make iphones elsewhere, which is the pounding of the business piece. there was a public visit by tim cook to china recently. what sources are telling us is at the same time executives are trying to move away from china. what is happening? josh: you see cook and apple doing a delicate dance where they're trying to reassure china that everything is ok while also trying to make sure they are

less reliant on china. we saw the big disruptions late last year. they are building up capacity in other countries so they are less vulnerable to geographic disruptions in the future. caroline: can you tell us about where does the supply chain shift? josh: absolutely. for iphones, which is the majority of production, that is shifting primarily to india. this is been happening for five years but it has ramped up over the last year. the next iphone generation could be the first time we see the first batch of iphones leaving china and india at the same time. production is happening in south east asia as well and also vietnam. caroline: a little bit in ireland. less complex to put together? josh: for some mac products will happen in ireland but primarily the focus is on southeast asia.

ed: the question goes to which products and what rationale. when the second wave of covid hit mainland china it became apparent that the hiring protocols, the production -- a lot of our supporting seems to suggest this is political in terms of what is going on between u.s. and china. which is it? caroline: there -- josh: there are two things going on simultaneously. you have the vulnerability of concentrating production capacity in one geographic area. if there is disruption due to covid and the only place you make these phones is in one area and they are suffering from covid you run into a problem. it is impossible to ignore the intention between the united states and china in all sorts of areas and i think apple is looking to avoid some of that by having a fallback plan if something does happen. caroline: is a great read. thank you so much.

coming up we will talk about the rise in generative ai. how much of it affects google. will be talking about the founder of an ai search engine. ed: taking a look at microsoft and palantir shares, they have expanded their cloud partnership. this is about doing deals with the department of defense, getting approvals from the public sector. a big spike in premarket. we are sharply lower on palantir despite the positive headlines. ♪

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>> this is an incredibly disruptive new technology. all of the leading ai lab snow there creating something dangerous but none of them want to stop it. caroline: i am caroline hyde in new york. ed: i am ed ludlow in san francisco. the chat gpt revolution could open the door to a four day week according to local prize-winning labor economist who says the

labor market can adapt quickly enough to ai back to chatbots camping down concerns that rampant advances in tech could bring mass jobs layoffs. president biden tweeting about ai overnight. i was wondering when the white house would weigh in on this. caroline: here comes the split. we have the pro side, the nobel prize-winning economist saying this could be additive to our productivity. there are concerns and president biden highlighted them. we continue to discuss how much we are thinking about the ethics involved. much are we thinking about the negative consequences as well as the positive consequences. ed: the professors thoughts in line with what goldman said, 300,000 jobs at risk but plus 7% global gdp. there is concerned but there is hope. let's bring in the ceo and

founder of the ai search engine you.com. and serves as a chief scientist at salesforce and was the ceo of the ai start up mind before that. you are not one of the signatories to the pause petition last week but you operated generative ai search engine. are you one of those that thinks a pause is helpful or just adds to the noise? >> i don't think a pause is feasible. it is hard to tell people do not think about this. i do think it is important for lawmakers to think about how to deal with the changing job landscape. i do think it will make sense for us to regulate this technology as it gets applied in specific areas such as military, health care, transportation, and a regulation make sense there. it is like trying to regulate

the chipset and sing this chip is not allowed to complete this function. it is hard to do that. when you apply chips and put them into a weapon there is regulation of how that weapon should be used. i'm not using weapons because i think this is weapons grade technology, i'm just using that in a general-purpose technology. it is like a hammer or an internet. the internet you can share illegal content but we do not make the entire internet illegal and say how about we slow down internet hype. we say if you share this particular kind of content like child pornography or murder videos or things like that, we make that illegal that makes a lot of sense. caroline: we're just looking at that exact tweet saying regulate it in a thoughtful manner. you seem to be aligning in some ways with what is being put out by other professors, i am

thinking of emily bender who says when you are putting too much thought around the intelligence of artificial intelligence, you're almost adding to the hype. richard: that is exactly right. i feel like there is an industry of anti-hype hypers that say this is so omnipotent and dangerous we have to regulate it and that makes people think i really have to have it. countries, certain organizations where values are not important to them. at the same time we are anthropomorphizing this technology, thinking it has its own thoughts. it is incredibly powerful. the impact on jobs israel, but it does not have a super intelligence that will have a mind of its own. it just picks the next word because that is what you are asking it to do. it has no capability to say i do not want to produce the next

words, i want to have my own thoughts. caroline: there is also this narrative that some that were signing the petition for a pause were behind the curve in the application of their own technology. ed, you have been playing with you.com. ed: i use chat gpt, i use barred by google. i have been using you.com. the question i put to you is whether this is just sour grapes from an industry trying to catch up with a clear leader in open ai? richard: i do think so. i think some folks trying to slow it down would be saying it is nice if we have time to catch up to the situation. we were the first to instead of trying to regulate the technology or say this is impossible to use, just trying to make it better.

we added the capability of these to have citations in step closer to the sources they find online. we launched back in december last year and open ai and others have copied that capability and i think it makes the whole model space better and more useful for certain. ed: jp morgan out with that note this morning calling microsoft a clear early leader in the generative ai space. it's partnership with open ai, big names moved early. caroline: you now have your own startup. is open ai sucking all of the oxygen out of the room when it should not be? how much should we work to think of smaller players and all the bigger players watching ahead? richard: that is a great question. microsoft has had its monopoly days and used its monopoly power

a lot in the past. they are applying that playbook now to almost a subsidiary of microsoft. they own 50% of open ai. it can be tough. we launched certain capabilities , then microsoft later on copied that feature. they are now trying to end all the competition in search engines they use to want to support in their struggle against google. now they say it seems like we should be able to do this ourselves so they increase their prices by 10 times were 50 times , making it not feasible to partner with them. there is that attempt from microsoft to try and get back to this monopoly power. caroline: interesting. i'm sure microsoft will go to comment as to whether they feel they are acting in an anti-competitive manner. what do you do at you.com to continue to be relevant and

grow? richard: we have been very much ahead of everyone when we launched this language model chat search engine in december last year. the field was quickly and did not last long. when we became the first to have multiple outputs in the chat model, so if you ask the chat model what is the stock price of salesforce, instead of making up a bunch of numbers which most models will do, we just show you the stock ticker. the outputs connect different modalities, it can be an image, an interactive element. we introduced it to a search engine and that allows the chat model to be a lot more powerful and actual replacement to google. we are trying to merge the best ideas of a traditional search engine with the chat gpt capabilities of summarize this website for me, write me an entire interesting website or longer piece of code and all these things and we will

continue to innovate for exciting things in the pipeline. ed: continue to innovate. the bloomberg opinion editorial board have a piece saying an ai pause would be a disaster for innovation. you seem to agree with that argument. what are you doing to innovate? how busy are you trying to get new checks from your backers to continue the research and development? richard: i do think it is impossible to regulate. it is like saying these models need the internet so let's make the internet slower or these models need chipsets so let's make chip slower so we slow this down because some of these chips could be used to do bad things. it is not feasible. not every country would participate. it does not make sense because the technology can be used for so many good things.

which trains the same technology you need for text chat in natural language english. we use that in my salesforce days to train on protean generation. we can find cures for cancer and for viruses. this technology is so general-purpose it can do a lot of amazing things. to say let's slow it down very basically does not make sense. when you applied to medicine and other areas. ed: richard, does you.com survive in a world where google is barred and microsoft through big is offering the same thing. does the plucky players survive? richard: we think so. there have been multiple smaller search engines that are worth billions of dollars already. people still care about privacy. and to be honest google and

microsoft have not caught up with everything we do. i think we have a shot. caroline: great to have some time with you. great conversation. we thank you. coming up, we talk a little bit more about funding. why one of the world's most valuable start up a payments volume slow down. more on that, next. first let's get back to some of the banking concerns swirling today in china light on an all tech player first republic up by another 2.5% as we once again worry about some of the deposits and smaller lenders. from new york and san francisco, this is bloomberg. >> when you look at how the technology of the economy is evolving, we are seeing increasing demand for more data sensors, because of generative ai companies like nvidia or a more diversified company like broadcom is in a good position

for clients. ♪

ed: stripes says growth in payments volume slowed last year even it as it helped more large businesses and clients pay over the net. the company says volume climbed 20% over 2022 but that is compared with 60% growth in 2021 when stripes are rapid growth as consumers did more shopping online during the pandemic. over to saudi arabia, a startup that provides a range of services from ride-hailing to food delivery, it -- to fuel the super apps growth. talks are at an early stage of

the target amount is being firmed up. caroline? caroline: let's talk about another key payment startup, the african cross porter -- cross-border payment platform. the company's cofounder and ceo spoke to bloomberg about where they go from here. >> we are not immune to the idea that we've had to become a bit more efficient. we had to tighten our belts because even as a business we had to rethink and i've asked my entire team and everyone at the company to think about every single expense of the business, think about it again. we need to expand money in that area? where can we be more efficient? >> do seymour'-- do you see more cost-cutting in the near future for chipper? you've had to lay off a lot of your workforce. you see that continuing on? >> do i foresee additional

layoffs? we came out of a period where we hired over 250 people in a space of 18 months. we grew to almost 500 people globally, including acquiring another company. that rate of growth by function of how fast it is happening builds inefficiencies. for us, part of making sure we are being as efficient as possible is revisiting every single aspect of the organization and saying where can we be as efficient as possible? ed: chipper cash cofounder and ceo there. coming up the super mario movie premieres internationally today. if you live in japan you will have to wait. caroline: let's talk about the content space. netflix, shares off more than

2%, even as the video streaming giant is cracking down on the ability of us to share our subscriptions across locations. the move analysts think could push millions of borrowers to spring for their own plan. the strategy along with the debut of the lower cost tier could keep growth robust. today not listing to that particularly analyst note. from new york, this is bloomberg. ♪ we all work differently now. so cdw helped us deploy mac, supercharged by apple silicon. ♪♪ built-in security protects me from malware and forgotten passwords. i've got enough battery life to get me halfway around the globe. and lower overall costs leave more money in our budget. for more practical furniture? this was supposed to be hip. no. can you help me up? with mac, configured by cdw, a solution that works for everyone isn't just possible, it's powerful.

ed: some of the most iconic and beloved characters in the gaming universe are coming to a big we near you, but if you live in japan you'll have to wait. the super mario film premiering international today will not feature in japanese theaters for another three weeks. why do fans in the birthplace of super mario and the homebase of its creator nintendo have to wait? the straightforward answer is japan will be the toughest audience to please. the rest of the world has diehard fans but no country has the same concentration of mario followers than japan does. caroline: have to know your audience. let's talk about ev's. kia is unveiling it's all electric ev 9 suv.

let's talk about all of it with kia executive vice president and coo. the ev 9, the suv, who is it wanting to compete with? steve: right now it is not going to eat with everyone because it has cleared space at the top of the suv market. perhaps in the coming years some other vehicle such as the chevy blazer might be a competitor, but this is a full dies suv with six or seven passengers with a targeted 300 mile range. there's not anything like that on the market right now. ed: the biggest question is pricing. lots of models coming online in north america. everyone has their eyes set on tesla. the price that ev to make it competitive?

steve: good question. kia has added a lot of new vehicles. the telluride has single-handedly changed the upgrade. we have been attracting newer customers that are purchasing the car well into the $60,000 range. that has paved the way for ev 9. while we are not ready to announce pricing, it will be priced beginning with the high end telluride and then upward from there with packages and features. ed: we have to put you on the spot about the inflation reduction act. do you design and price the vehicle so it is caught within the parameters of that legislation? steve: now. you have to design for the market. you do not make long-term decisions based on a short-term taxation policy.

the ira is a destructive type of legislation where auto companies who are moving along based on a set of rules and the government change them all of the sudden. as an example we had already announced our event in georgia, building a battery factory there as well. that was before the ira was announced. moving forward with plans for electrification based on what the market demands. caroline: let's talk about the market and competition a little bit more. we went to our audience and asked them about tesla in particular and whether it is losing market share or whether it is in impact of the slowing economy that is curtailing the demand for tesla at the moment. 39% of the audience thought demand for tesla ev is still

full on. you think they are or do you think you are gaining market share? steve: two things are happening. you have everyone else getting in the game. number of choices for electric vehicles has expanded. the acceptance of electric vehicles has expanded. they are difficult to conquest from, but we are attracting customers from brands and people considering their first ev for their first ev suv. the market is growing. not everyone is coming for tesla. caroline: -- ed: what is the secret sauce for kia. what do have when you're going up against not only tesla but the u.s. oems? steve: we are a disruptor brand

and we are 30 years old and started out with small internal combustion cars. the telluride is only four years on the market. perhaps our secret sauce is our innovative technology and willingness to take risks and our customer focus in developing products that are spot on for what customers are looking for. ed: thank you for your time. there was a time when tesla was the only game in town. you and i are learning that is not true anymore. caroline: 20,000 orders in the first quarter going to gm, 30,000 going to forward. there is everything else. toyota we have not discussed. ed: difficult economic outlook for the rest of this year. that does it for this edition of bloomberg technology. caroline: don't forget to check out our podcast online on apple

and spotify, wherever you like to consume your audio. from new york and san francisco, we wish you a wonderful rest of the day. this is bloomberg. ♪

kriti: stocks selling off but the action is on the bond market. bloomberg markets starts right now. let's get a quick check of the market because you are seeing some risk off sentiment in the stock market is down about 0.6% and even tech is not really helping the broader measure. all the action is in the bond market. it looks like it some sort of bid for safety but i would say is more of apr